Our Future? Stadium Expansion Proposal on Season Ticket DVD

[Sour Mash]

I never said it was. I only argued the point that we could pick up support from there and not to completely rule it out. I even said that it wouldn't be thousands.

Glad we've finally got that clear.

Then the point had no relevance to Saints increasing their home support. Brilliant.

[Turkish]

Also Turkish, you are like a 12 year old, you contradict yourself massively and misquote people, if you weren't so entertaining I would have had you on ignore long ago. I suppose it goes in your favour that you demonstrate what a good education is actually worth

 

Yu need to look up contradict in the dictionary sunshine. I've never said we shouldnt expand, I've never said we will never be able to grow as a club. I have always said that we should do so only when there is concrete evidence we can sell extra tickets regularly by having a couple of seasons of sell outs first. not by slashing the prices and hoping causal fans Warick and train full of converted Pompey fans will take them for us or by relying in some mythical catchment areas which includes Portsmouth. A catchment area the has always been there but for the last 126 years of our history has never bothered before. It's only now they are going to bother in their thousands, only now. Not when they needed a premier league fix in 2003, only now.

[Golden Balls]

Then the point had no relevance to Saints increasing their home support. Brilliant.

 

Yes it does. Whether it be 1 person who gets hooked, or 10,000. It's increased home support. My point I was making is that we can't discount the PO post code...especially the towns inbetween (must be the 3rd or 4th time I've said that). I'm not saying this is why we should expand the stadium. Never once mentioned this.

[Matthew Le God]

Then the point had no relevance to Saints increasing their home support. Brilliant.

 

Yes it does. Whether it be 1 person who gets hooked, or 10,000. It's increased home support.

 

At least two people in the last few days have given anecdotal evidence of Saints fans after Premier League relegation starting to go to Pompey Premier League games. The same is likely to happen in reverse now the pendulum has swung Southampton's way. It is extremely likely that is only the tip of an iceberg, of course it won't be huge numbers, but as Golden Balls says, 1 person or 10,000 people - it is still increased home support.

[Turkish]

At least two people in the last few days have given anecdotal evidence of Saints fans after Premier League relegation starting to go to Pompey Premier League games. The same is likely to happen in reverse now the pendulum has swung Southampton's way. It is extremely likely that is only the tip of an iceberg, of course it won't be huge numbers, but as Golden Balls says, 1 person or 10,000 people - it is still increased home support.

 

Let's hope "at least 2" is the tip of the iceberg as your dreams of a massively expanded stadium full of casual fans coming for their premier league fix is going to be nothing more than a pipe dream isn't is.

[Sour Mash]

At least two people in the last few days have given anecdotal evidence of Saints fans after Premier League relegation starting to go to Pompey Premier League games. The same is likely to happen in reverse now the pendulum has swung Southampton's way. It is extremely likely that is only the tip of an iceberg, of course it won't be huge numbers, but as Golden Balls says, 1 person or 10,000 people - it is still increased home support.

Surely even you must understand the difference in relevance between one person and ten.thousand in the context of this debate? Obviously as a rough guess how many extra people from the city of Portsmouth do you expect to want to come to St Marys to watch Premier League football?

[shurlock]

At least two people in the last few days have given anecdotal evidence of Saints fans after Premier League relegation starting to go to Pompey Premier League games. The same is likely to happen in reverse now the pendulum has swung Southampton's way. It is extremely likely that is only the tip of an iceberg, of course it won't be huge numbers, but as Golden Balls says, 1 person or 10,000 people - it is still increased home support.

 

Mate,you're flailing.

[Wes Tender]

Surely even you must understand the difference in relevance between one person and ten.thousand in the context of this debate? Obviously as a rough guess how many extra people from the city of Portsmouth do you expect to want to come to St Marys to watch Premier League football?

 

I'll have a stab at it. 500. That's just for the City itself. I suspect that the wider PO postcode would yield higher numbers, especially between here and there. There are any number of reasons why we might harvest fans from Portsmouth itself, although as others have said, it is unlikely that many will come from existing fans of Portsmouth. But naturally it would be as difficult for me to prove my suspected figure as it is for anybody to disprove it.

[The Kraken]

I'll have a stab at it. 500. That's just for the City itself. I suspect that the wider PO postcode would yield higher numbers, especially between here and there. There are any number of reasons why we might harvest fans from Portsmouth itself, although as others have said, it is unlikely that many will come from existing fans of Portsmouth. But naturally it would be as difficult for me to prove my suspected figure as it is for anybody to disprove it.

Of those 500 (or more as you intimate from surrounding areas); do you think they will be brand new customers? In other words, are they football fans who have never been to a game before but quite fancy it because we're in the Premier League? Or are they Southampton fans who happen to live in Pompey but haven't been bothered to turn up because they don't fancy the allure of League 1 or Championship football?

 

Just wondering. As I see it, it's massively obvious that our attendances will rise in this division. And that we are of course now a more attractive proposition to come and watch. I just don't buy the argument that 500 people from our rival city who have never been to see football before before will suddenly come out of the woodwork now that we're in the top league. As you say, both of our opinions can be proved neither right nor wrong, but I find that idea to be a bit far fetched.

 

180,000 customers on our database suggests that, even with our attendances to date in the lower leagues, our outreach of supporters is not limited to the direct Southampton area. With that many people who have been to see us before, we surely already have a significant amount of fans who come from far and wide. Trying to grow the supporter base is clearly important, but I think we probably first need to encourage our customers base to come a little more often. That's how we've got a better chance of getting our attendances consistently higher IMO.

Edited 24 June, 2012 by The Kraken

[CB Fry]

I'll have a stab at it. 500. That's just for the City itself. I suspect that the wider PO postcode would yield higher numbers, especially between here and there. There are any number of reasons why we might harvest fans from Portsmouth itself, although as others have said, it is unlikely that many will come from existing fans of Portsmouth. But naturally it would be as difficult for me to prove my suspected figure as it is for anybody to disprove it.

 

 

 

This kinda pi ss es on your previous ramblings about clubs geographically close together being unable to grow like MegaSolentSaints doesn't it?

 

If you believe the above then the people of Derby will be buying red scarves by the truckload if Forest go up. Not such a barrier after all.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[S-Clarke]

Is it just me who find these attendance debates absolutely mind-numbingly boring?

 

I thought this thread was a positive insight into the clubs future plans. Not sure why it's turned into a turgid debate revolving around the same individuals.

 

Maybe the mods should make an attendance forum?

[trousers]

Is it just me who find these attendance debates absolutely mind-numbingly boring?

 

No.

[S-Clarke]

No.

 

Excellent.

 

Maybe a good opportunity for that picture again?

[The Kraken]

Stay on topic please.

 

If you have no interest in the thread then don't post in it.

[Dig Dig]

It's so ****ing tedious. Shall we just wait and see?

[aintforever]

It's only tedious because of the ****ing trolls. Everyone pretty much agrees on the fact that the club are looking to expand and will wait to see what demand is if we stay up.

[docker-p]

I'm ******* amazed this thread is still going. There is no business reason to expand SMS. There is no money to expand SMS. There is no demand to expand SMS. We our the best supported club in the South outside London. But we have a ground that fits perfectly.

This is just a load of Cortese's PR people trying to generate interest and debate, not a serious proposal to expand SMS. I fear for the future of our community if we have saps who take this sort of PR seriously.

[Turkish]

It's so ****ing tedious. Shall we just wait and see?

 

Which is exactly what else Dell sized mentality posters have been saying. Not inventing catchment areas and speculating on how many Pompey fans will become Saints fans or how many people in Cirencester will come to St Mary's to get their fix of premier league football. It's the self titled intelligent posters coming out with all this nonsense and speculation.

[Turkish]

It's only tedious because of the ****ing trolls. Everyone pretty much agrees on the fact that the club are looking to expand and will wait to see what demand is if we stay up.

 

Yeah, you're right. These trolls that think a large percentage of the 450,000 people in Portsmouth and the surrounding areas will come to St Mary's in their droves drive me nuts.

Edited 24 June, 2012 by Turkish

[aintforever]

Yeah, you're right. These trolls that think a large percentage of the 450,000 people in Portsmouth and the surrounding areas drive me nuts.

 

That doesn't even make sense. troll

[Turkish]

That doesn't even make sense. troll

 

I have edited it for you, dumbass.

[Wes Tender]

Of those 500 (or more as you intimate from surrounding areas); do you think they will be brand new customers? In other words, are they football fans who have never been to a game before but quite fancy it because we're in the Premier League? Or are they Southampton fans who happen to live in Pompey but haven't been bothered to turn up because they don't fancy the allure of League 1 or Championship football?

 

Just wondering. As I see it, it's massively obvious that our attendances will rise in this division. And that we are of course now a more attractive proposition to come and watch. I just don't buy the argument that 500 people from our rival city who have never been to see football before before will suddenly come out of the woodwork now that we're in the top league. As you say, both of our opinions can be proved neither right nor wrong, but I find that idea to be a bit far fetched.

 

180,000 customers on our database suggests that, even with our attendances to date in the lower leagues, our outreach of supporters is not limited to the direct Southampton area. With that many people who have been to see us before, we surely already have a significant amount of fans who come from far and wide. Trying to grow the supporter base is clearly important, but I think we probably first need to encourage our customers base to come a little more often. That's how we've got a better chance of getting our attendances consistently higher IMO.

 

Fair points. Although some grow bored with the debate, you have asked for a response with civility, (unlike some) so I'll respond. If anybody is bored, then they are not forced to view this thread.

 

As I said, there would be a number of factors governing why we might pick up fans from Portsmouth, but in my opinion it would not involve the hardcore Skate fans to any great degree. 500 is a small percentage of the City's population, so to raise that quantity would not take up many additions from various sources. For example, the University has students from all over the country, so there is not necessarily the Skate allegiance there. It has quite a high percentage of Asian students, so there might be several Koreans & Japanese who might be attracted if Lee shines. Then there are many families who have split loyalties between the two clubs, where our success and the Skate's demise could swing things our way. Otherwise, as already argued by others, there has to be potential for many who would come to see us playing the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, both Manchester Clubs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs, etc. Also, the possibility that you mention is also viable; lapsed Saints fans living in the City who weren't that bothered when we were in the lower divisions. Taking all of those factors into consideration, I don't see why 500 or so additional attendees from within the actual City boundaries should not be achievable. But as I said, much higher numbers should be possible from the PO postcodes between them and us I'd even go as far as to say to the North and East of Portsmouth too.

 

And just to answer the forum's elite intellect, it doesn't p iss on my argument at all, as I've explained that apart from within our actual rival city itself, and only then their hardcore, there is plenty of scope for picking up extra fans from the PO postcode area. And apart from that, I don't believe that the Derby/Nottingham rivalry is anywhere near as fierce as that between Hampshire's two main cities and it remains to be seen what the situation would be if one or other of them were to fall several divisions while the other gained Premiership status.

[aintforever]

I have edited it for you, dumbass.

 

You are having an argument against an imaginary opinion to try and create conflict, that make you a troll.

 

"An Internet troll is a person who takes pleasure in sowing discord on the Internet, an individual who enjoys creating conflict. He or she creates and fuels arguments that upset other members of the online community. Their aim is to provoke biased others to take up their cause. The overarching goal is to damage people, entities, or ideas with which the Internet troll disagrees, or to provoke controversy.

 

Internet trolls have been described as "sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful”. They typically possess a poorly developed set of social skills and have difficulty viewing their actions from the perspectives of their victims. They may be callous to the fact that they are harming real people, instead viewing Internet users as "digital abstractions". They may thus feel no remorse for harm they cause, and in fact may judge their own level of "success" by the amount of that harm. Most are impervious to rationale, mature arguments against their wares, and will protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed if ever there is an attempt to call them on their trolling.

 

The original definition of "troll" was much narrower. When first used, it meant an Internet utterance (or the person making that utterance) that was deliberately incorrect and was intended to lure innocent readers to reply with a correction. The troll or his or her confederates would then ridicule the responder for not having realized that the original statement was a joke.

 

Internet trolls are additionally interested in meeting their own attention-needs, which are often unmet in their real life, and may suffer from various psychological disorders. Whether trolling is a protected free speech activity or whether it amounts to libel and defamation depends upon the nature, content, and result of the statements by the troll. "

 

sad, sad, sad

[Turkish]

You are having an argument against an imaginary opinion to try and create conflict, that make you a troll.

 

"An Internet troll is a person who takes pleasure in sowing discord on the Internet, an individual who enjoys creating conflict. He or she creates and fuels arguments that upset other members of the online community. Their aim is to provoke biased others to take up their cause. The overarching goal is to damage people, entities, or ideas with which the Internet troll disagrees, or to provoke controversy.

 

Internet trolls have been described as "sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful”. They typically possess a poorly developed set of social skills and have difficulty viewing their actions from the perspectives of their victims. They may be callous to the fact that they are harming real people, instead viewing Internet users as "digital abstractions". They may thus feel no remorse for harm they cause, and in fact may judge their own level of "success" by the amount of that harm. Most are impervious to rationale, mature arguments against their wares, and will protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed if ever there is an attempt to call them on their trolling.

 

The original definition of "troll" was much narrower. When first used, it meant an Internet utterance (or the person making that utterance) that was deliberately incorrect and was intended to lure innocent readers to reply with a correction. The troll or his or her confederates would then ridicule the responder for not having realized that the original statement was a joke.

 

Internet trolls are additionally interested in meeting their own attention-needs, which are often unmet in their real life, and may suffer from various psychological disorders. Whether trolling is a protected free speech activity or whether it amounts to libel and defamation depends upon the nature, content, and result of the statements by the troll. "

 

sad, sad, sad

 

I don't know what point you are trying to make. I'm agreeing with you FFS, youre making sense for once. These morons that make up catchment areas and argue the toss about how many fans they think might come from other towns to see premier league football are the worst type of trolls. Dealing in their own imaginations not FACTS. Its not an imaginary conflict, the posts are on here for you to see,and I agree, it's bloody sad.Tsk dumbass, even when you're talking sense you can't help but be a helmet.

[The Kraken]

Fair points. Although some grow bored with the debate, you have asked for a response with civility, (unlike some) so I'll respond. If anybody is bored, then they are not forced to view this thread.

 

As I said, there would be a number of factors governing why we might pick up fans from Portsmouth, but in my opinion it would not involve the hardcore Skate fans to any great degree. 500 is a small percentage of the City's population, so to raise that quantity would not take up many additions from various sources. For example, the University has students from all over the country, so there is not necessarily the Skate allegiance there. It has quite a high percentage of Asian students, so there might be several Koreans & Japanese who might be attracted if Lee shines. Then there are many families who have split loyalties between the two clubs, where our success and the Skate's demise could swing things our way. Otherwise, as already argued by others, there has to be potential for many who would come to see us playing the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, both Manchester Clubs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs, etc. Also, the possibility that you mention is also viable; lapsed Saints fans living in the City who weren't that bothered when we were in the lower divisions. Taking all of those factors into consideration, I don't see why 500 or so additional attendees from within the actual City boundaries should not be achievable. But as I said, much higher numbers should be possible from the PO postcodes between them and us I'd even go as far as to say to the North and East of Portsmouth too.

 

And just to answer the forum's elite intellect, it doesn't p iss on my argument at all, as I've explained that apart from within our actual rival city itself, and only then their hardcore, there is plenty of scope for picking up extra fans from the PO postcode area. And apart from that, I don't believe that the Derby/Nottingham rivalry is anywhere near as fierce as that between Hampshire's two main cities and it remains to be seen what the situation would be if one or other of them were to fall several divisions while the other gained Premiership status.

 

Fair enough.

 

I tend to disagree about the student part of it. I (and some of my friends who I've previously spoken to previously about this type of thing) went to Uni; I happened to go to Bournemouth. I actually went to a fair few Bournemouth games when there, simply because they were close to where I lived, it was cheap, and it was football. The idea of travelling 30 miles to Southampton for better quality football never crossed my mind, even though Saints are obviously my own team. But that's just me; maybe some students would want to pay Premier League prices and travel 17 miles there and back to watch footy whilst ignoring the football club on their own doorstep.

 

In any case, I think my whole point is that I don't believe there is a massive untapped market of fans that we're missing out on. We will get some new customers but, in the general scheme of things, I think any huge increase in attendances will come from attracting current fans/customers to come to St Mary's on a more regular basis. That's how we'll prove we'll need a bigger stadium IMO; not by finding a new swathe of fans who have never been to St Mary's before.

Edited 24 June, 2012 by The Kraken

[Turkish]

Fair points. Although some grow bored with the debate, you have asked for a response with civility, (unlike some) so I'll respond. If anybody is bored, then they are not forced to view this thread.

 

As I said, there would be a number of factors governing why we might pick up fans from Portsmouth, but in my opinion it would not involve the hardcore Skate fans to any great degree. 500 is a small percentage of the City's population, so to raise that quantity would not take up many additions from various sources. For example, the University has students from all over the country, so there is not necessarily the Skate allegiance there. It has quite a high percentage of Asian students, so there might be several Koreans & Japanese who might be attracted if Lee shines. Then there are many families who have split loyalties between the two clubs, where our success and the Skate's demise could swing things our way. Otherwise, as already argued by others, there has to be potential for many who would come to see us playing the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, both Manchester Clubs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Spurs, etc. Also, the possibility that you mention is also viable; lapsed Saints fans living in the City who weren't that bothered when we were in the lower divisions. Taking all of those factors into consideration, I don't see why 500 or so additional attendees from within the actual City boundaries should not be achievable. But as I said, much higher numbers should be possible from the PO postcodes between them and us I'd even go as far as to say to the North and East of Portsmouth too.

 

And just to answer the forum's elite intellect, it doesn't p iss on my argument at all, as I've explained that apart from within our actual rival city itself, and only then their hardcore, there is plenty of scope for picking up extra fans from the PO postcode area. And apart from that, I don't believe that the Derby/Nottingham rivalry is anywhere near as fierce as that between Hampshire's two main cities and it remains to be seen what the situation would be if one or other of them were to fall several divisions while the other gained Premiership status.

 

So if the rivalry isn't as fierce in Derby/Nottingham compared to here how can it be the case that we would be more likely to pick up these fans that live in the PO area? How can they be in our catchment area given how fierce the rivalry iscompared to other areas, like at Derby and Notttingham, as you freely admit yourself.

[Thedelldays]

Why wont these floating fans go to reading?

[CB Fry]

Which is exactly what else Dell sized mentality posters have been saying. Not inventing catchment areas and speculating on how many Pompey fans will become Saints fans or how many people in Cirencester will come to St Mary's to get their fix of premier league football. It's the self titled intelligent posters coming out with all this nonsense and speculation.

 

 

 

Correct. For example we are:

 

filling the expensively assembled new ground with cut price 'flexible' tickets

 

filling the new ground with thousands of people that aren't Saints fans at all just people that want to see a Premier League match

 

filling the ground on the back of our gigantic catchment area stretching from Dover to Cornwall to Bristol and Guildford

 

fill the ground with thousands of saints fans who previously have never even tried to get tickets but probably will with ten thousand more to choose from

 

filling the ground with the wives and girlfriends that tagged along to our Wembley day out

 

filling the ground because of Chelsea in 1983 or something

 

filling the ground because they said man couldn't walk on the moon

 

and the latest wheeze...

 

filling the ground with people from Portsmouth, city of our hated rival. (this of course wouldn't happen in any other city in Britain). Just Southampton.

 

 

So a pretty long list of speculation guesswork and wild assumption, neatly dressed up in a red and white 'I'm a super fan, me' scarf. And desperately trying to make anyone who disagrees with them as a anti-Saints pessimist.

 

I honestly think it is only a about five people on here that beleive any of this horsesh it but you have to admire their perserverence.

 

The rest of us? Hey, lets wait and see.

[PhilippineSaint]

Stay on topic please.

 

If you have no interest in the thread then don't post in it.

 

What was it all about I have lost track ?

[Wes Tender]

Correct. For example we are:

 

filling the expensively assembled new ground with cut price 'flexible' tickets

 

filling the new ground with thousands of people that aren't Saints fans at all just people that want to see a Premier League match

 

filling the ground on the back of our gigantic catchment area stretching from Dover to Cornwall to Bristol and Guildford

 

fill the ground with thousands of saints fans who previously have never even tried to get tickets but probably will with ten thousand more to choose from

 

filling the ground with the wives and girlfriends that tagged along to our Wembley day out

 

filling the ground because of Chelsea in 1983 or something

 

filling the ground because they said man couldn't walk on the moon

 

and the latest wheeze...

 

filling the ground with people from Portsmouth, city of our hated rival. (this of course wouldn't happen in any other city in Britain). Just Southampton.

 

 

So a pretty long list of speculation guesswork and wild assumption, neatly dressed up in a red and white 'I'm a super fan, me' scarf. And desperately trying to make anyone who disagrees with them as a anti-Saints pessimist.

 

I honestly think it is only a about five people on here that beleive any of this horsesh it but you have to admire their perserverence.

 

The rest of us? Hey, lets wait and see.

 

See you do get it. Make it a few hundred/a few thousand in all of those categories you mentioned and all of a sudden, that translates into several thousand.

 

What you have also sussed via your super-brain, is that the whole thing is supposition and conjecture. Well done.

 

The only part that you appear to have got wrong (I can only assume that it must be a typo), is that it is only about five people on here who do not believe that we would fill an enlarged stadium. It does worry me however that one of those five is the super-intellectual CB Fry. But they say that there is a small dividing line between madness and genius and I can only assume that you have suffered a temporary aberration.

[CB Fry]

The only part that you appear to have got wrong (I can only assume that it must be a typo), is that it is only about five people on here who do not believe that we would fill an enlarged stadium. It does worry me however that one of those five is the super-intellectual CB Fry.

 

Where have I said this?

[Thedelldays]

Why wont these floating fans go to reading?

anyone..?

[class of 76]

The Isle of Wight has a PO postcode, with plenty of Saints supporters and quite a few portsmouth supporters. Both are probably outnumbered by people who claim to be Man U, Liverpool, Arse, Chelsea etc. etc. I have already been aproached by three people, who know I have two season tickets, asking if I can get extra tickets. One is a Chelsea fan, one is a Man U fan and one is an Arsenal fan. All three have previously been to fp. to watch their teams, even though they have to sit quietly in the home end. True story which I'm sure is not unique. Repeat that a few times and you have a significant increase in crowd numbers, if not support!

[Frank's cousin]

anyone..?

 

I daresay reading will attract a fair few extra.

 

Surely the question remains, that IF we hvas so many on the database above what we call the hard core, what do the club need to do/achieve to convert a percentage of these form 1 or 2 times a year to 10 games +?

 

Part of that will be opposition, part quality of saints side and level of success/entertainment, and IMHO a major price will be.... Price. We have just seen a new thread on the memorial cup which is full of the frequent comments that its priced too high... depsite no demand issue... simply not possible to justify that price for a pre season friendly - fare enough, but it dmeonstrates clearly the issue of price. The club has dropped a bollock on that one.

 

As some seem to be struggling with the concept and definition of 'flexible pricing'... I will say it again for the record - its NOT about 'discounting' or dropping prices to 'fill' the stadium. For those struggling Please take a moment to take note - NOT discounting.

 

Its about having a broader range of STANDARD prices throughout the stadium and offereing better value to the concession groups. ST price range increases some cheaper some more beyond what we currently do, which is then also reflected in the match day price, but STs still remain the best option. This broader range of STANDARD prices would encourage a greater demographic and IMHO opinion could add 5-8k average to the gate.

 

Does it make economic sense? Depends on the numbers attending in each price category. I happen to feel the club is currently OVER pricing and as a result I think we will be taking an attendance hit - even though its not bad relative to other clubs, the current economic climate and the fact that many fans have been used to cheaper (better value?) prices for teh last 4 or 5 years means it a big psychological increase.

 

The best way to demonstrate is: what do folk think would be our average prem attendance (assuming say a capacity of 40k) IF 5000 of these were available at an ST price of £280 as say the cheapest Adult ticket? Think of the German model that has seen a massive rise in attendance, in part because they have a much broader STR range, decent capacity stadia and relative success.

 

Sure attracting new fans and increasing the average gate is not an overnight thing, but as said before, its a chicken and egg thing... there is a rational for having the infrastructure in place to allow a club to experiment with pricing to max both revenue and attendance - In Germany that infrastructure investment did not fall on the clubs but was supported by the central and local funds in building for the WC2006. We on the otherhand would need to fund it so rightly it is a different ball game.

 

A lot would surely depend on how any development is funded - commercial loans v family interest free money/equity conversions etc... but to suggest that pricing is not an important aspect of attendance is silly. In addition, suggesting that a broader pricing range is not possible with greater capacity is also naive IMHO.

[aintforever]

Why wont these floating fans go to reading?

 

Half the stadium at Reading is full of floating fans. I saw at least 2 kids in Chelsea shirts last time I went.

[The Kraken]

As some seem to be struggling with the concept and definition of 'flexible pricing'... I will say it again for the record - its NOT about 'discounting' or dropping prices to 'fill' the stadium. For those struggling Please take a moment to take note - NOT discounting.

 

Its about having a broader range of STANDARD prices throughout the stadium and offereing better value to the concession groups. ST price range increases some cheaper some more beyond what we currently do, which is then also reflected in the match day price, but STs still remain the best option. This broader range of STANDARD prices would encourage a greater demographic and IMHO opinion could add 5-8k average to the gate.

 

FC, I think we get the idea. Its the actual putting it into practise that doesn't seem to stack up. You previously suggested a range of season ticket prices, from £300 to £800, with the more expensive tickets subsidising the lower price tickets. Well, we already have that range, up to £780 per season in the Itchen and Kingsland Premium, plus newly introduced season tickets (Club Lounge Membership) costing well over £1,000. So with that in mind, to accommodate your suggestion, we would either just be introducing a lower price band of tickets, or introducing tickets that cost up to £1,500 to cover the lower price range. I just don't see it as realistic to do either of those.

 

Does it make economic sense? Depends on the numbers attending in each price category. I happen to feel the club is currently OVER pricing and as a result I think we will be taking an attendance hit - even though its not bad relative to other clubs, the current economic climate and the fact that many fans have been used to cheaper (better value?) prices for teh last 4 or 5 years means it a big psychological increase.

 

The best way to demonstrate is: what do folk think would be our average prem attendance (assuming say a capacity of 40k) IF 5000 of these were available at an ST price of £280 as say the cheapest Adult ticket? Think of the German model that has seen a massive rise in attendance, in part because they have a much broader STR range, decent capacity stadia and relative success.

 

I really think you're looking at this from an idealistic point of view, in that you're simply trying to look at ways to drive up attendances to fill an expanded stadium. You're looking at ways for how we could take a gamble, build a stadium, and then how we could fill it. As I've said before, I think this is the wrong way round of looking at it. We first surely need to have a good idea of how many more customers want to come within the current pricing scheme and, if necessary and financially viable to do so, expand the stadium to fit that need.

 

Previous years in the Premier League have shown us that, apart from one season following the cup final where we sold out pretty much every week, the three other seasons had a significant number of games where we did not sell out the home allocation (something like 8, 8 and 6 games per season where we had less than 31K crowds, whereas we only had 1 in season 2003/04). That suggests that its not a complete given that we will sell out every single game this season coming. With that in mind, we surely need to make sure we can fill the current stadium to a higher degree than we've ever done in our history before making any definitive plans to put in more seats. Because, with your model and benchmarks given, I can't see any other way to accomplish it other than adding 10,000 or so seats and then offering cheaper prices to fill them. I know you don't want to see it that way, but with the price benchmarks you've provided that's the only way it can work.

[Frank's cousin]

FC, I think we get the idea. Its the actual putting it into practise that doesn't seem to stack up. You previously suggested a range of season ticket prices, from £300 to £800, with the more expensive tickets subsidising the lower price tickets. Well, we already have that range, up to £780 per season in the Itchen and Kingsland Premium, plus newly introduced season tickets (Club Lounge Membership) costing well over £1,000. So with that in mind, to accommodate your suggestion, we would either just be introducing a lower price band of tickets, or introducing tickets that cost up to £1,500 to cover the lower price range. I just don't see it as realistic to do either of those.

 

 

 

I really think you're looking at this from an idealistic point of view, in that you're simply trying to look at ways to drive up attendances to fill an expanded stadium. You're looking at ways for how we could take a gamble, build a stadium, and then how we could fill it. As I've said before, I think this is the wrong way round of looking at it. We first surely need to have a good idea of how many more customers want to come within the current pricing scheme and, if necessary and financially viable to do so, expand the stadium to fit that need.

 

Previous years in the Premier League have shown us that, apart from one season following the cup final where we sold out pretty much every week, the three other seasons had a significant number of games where we did not sell out the home allocation (something like 8, 8 and 6 games per season where we had less than 31K crowds, whereas we only had 1 in season 2003/04). That suggests that its not a complete given that we will sell out every single game this season coming. With that in mind, we surely need to make sure we can fill the current stadium to a higher degree than we've ever done in our history before making any definitive plans to put in more seats. Because, with your model and benchmarks given, I can't see any other way to accomplish it other than adding 10,000 or so seats and then offering cheaper prices to fill them. I know you don't want to see it that way, but with the price benchmarks you've provided that's the only way it can work.

 

First up, thanks for taking teh time to read, digest and respond with a decent opinion and well reasoned argument. In part I do agree with you. I am potentially talking about 'cheaper seats' to fill it. My basis though is not a sort of desperation approach, that we have all this capacity and some how need to to justify it by filling it - it is as you say more idealistic - in that the purpose of being able to make attendance more accessible to a more folk and kids etc through a more attractive pricing policy, IS a good reason for expansion IF it can be done without it crippling us financially - eg teh funding source is parmount to my argument.

 

Is it a 'build it and they will come? idea' to some extent yes, but more a build it and they will come if there is greater affordibility as a result.

 

Why this idea? afterall there are many robust business arguments that suggest such an approach is a folly.

 

I have mentioned the German model. 6-7 years ago, most grounds were smaller there than now and not full on a regular basis. Following the stadia development for WC 2006 most ground increased capacity and are now mostly sell outs - within 6 years - and lot of this is due to the fact that the stadia are good, the entertainment and quality is good, but also because they do have much cheaper tickets including those for safe terraces priced as little as £120 for an ST.

 

They in effect built it, got the pricing right and they came ;-)

 

OK, so clubs did not have to fork out a great deal, but it does illustrate that attendances can be dramatically increased IF the package and value is better.

 

But, yes I fully acknowlege that if a club has to invest that sort of moeny, the overall business aspects will take priority over the idealistic view.

 

I also (sadly IMHO) dont believe NC would do it anyway (the German pricing model that is) despite him having a more European background - he will undoubtedly keep prices as high as possible within the range of typical Prem prices... but the empty seats at many grounds these last few seasons, is indicative of the economic conditions, as well as the perceived value.

 

I just feel we need to take a long look at how pricing policy is impacting on attendance and atmosphere generated

 

I will happily admit that this is not just an 'idealistic' view, but also one driven by ego - would love it to have a 40K+ with a bit more character, so naturally am happy to think, discuss, speculate on how it might be possible to build it soon and then fill it.

 

This is IMHO the point of these boards. none of us are making the decsion, so not sure why there has been so much bitterness and **** take over what is something we probably all have an opinion on.

[Matthew Le God]

"The stadium will be expanded to 50,000 seats" - Alexander Buttner, 18th July 2012

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vitesse.org%2Fnieuws%2Fvitesse_in_de_media%2Fuit_de_media%2F10_vragen_aan_alexander_buttner.html

 

This should be a fun debate...(remember this is likely what Cortese has told Buttner and every other signing we go after including Rodriguez, Davis and Clyne)

[hypochondriac]

"The stadium will be expanded to 50,000 seats" - Alexander Buttner, 18th July 2012

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vitesse.org%2Fnieuws%2Fvitesse_in_de_media%2Fuit_de_media%2F10_vragen_aan_alexander_buttner.html

 

This should be a fun debate...(remember this is likely what Cortese has told Buttner and every other signing we go after including Rodriguez, Davis and Clyne)

 

No detail on when this will happen so not relevant. I reckon it is likely we will expand at some point. Doesn't mean it is imminent in any way.

[Matthew Le God]

I doubt Buttner would be that bothered if it wasn't relatively soon. In any case it gives us a figure for the capacity Cortese is telling prospective signings.

[hypochondriac]

I doubt Buttner would be that bothered if it wasn't relatively imminent. In any case it gives us a figure for the capacity Cortese is telling prospective signings.

 

Not true. Cortese could have literally just said something like we are ambitious and will be expanding the stadium in the future.

[Matthew Le God]

Why would Buttner be excited about a 50k stadium if it was 10 years away? Buttner could have just left it at being excited about joining an ambitious club.

 

And what about my second sentence?

[rshephard3]

No detail on when this will happen so not relevant. I reckon it is likely we will expand at some point. Doesn't mean it is imminent in any way.

 

I'd hazard a guess none of the mentioned players are contracted with SFC by the time SMS has 50,000 seats and is ready for matches. The draw for all of them is first team football in the top flight, not a vision 5 or 6 years down the line. Players and managers hardly look 5 or 6 months into the future. For good reason too, wait and see how Cortese feels about Adkins at Christmas when a team with such little premiership experience is struggling.. (I hope this post comes back to bite me!!)

[hypochondriac]

Why would Buttner be excited about a 50k stadium if it was 10 years away? Buttner could have just left it at being excited about joining an ambitious club.

 

And what about my second sentence?

 

I just told you. Cortese could have literally said we will be looking to expand the stadium to 50K in the future. No details on timing but still enough to highlight our ambitious nature and get the player excited. As regards your second sentence I agree that 50K could be a realistic expansion at some point in the future. I have never said otherwise.

[hypochondriac]

I'd hazard a guess none of the mentioned players are contracted with SFC by the time SMS has 50,000 seats and is ready for matches. The draw for all of them is first team football in the top flight, not a vision 5 or 6 years down the line. Players and managers hardly look 5 or 6 months into the future. For good reason too, wait and see how Cortese feels about Adkins at Christmas when a team with such little premiership experience is struggling.. (I hope this post comes back to bite me!!)

 

Could well be the case. A sensible post.

[Golden Balls]

Nice to get a figure on it. I thought it would be around 45k but 50k is a massive increase

[hypochondriac]

Nice to get a figure on it. I thought it would be around 45k but 50k is a massive increase

 

Should we be challenging for Europe regularly and established in the top flight then it is potentially a sensible increase. It also gives a bit of leeway for further fans in the future should even more success be forthcoming.

[dubai_phil]

Well I'll go out on a limb here.

 

I would not be surprised to see the plans going in PROVIDING we look like staying up this year and work starting in the summer of 2013.

 

Not all 18k at once but the work will be planned in stages.

 

NC is not messing around.

 

And, although nobody has really mentioned it much with 180.000 on our database, and the proof even over here in Dubai where we have gone from D_P, EoA & FMDP watching the games to having 30 at the last televised game AND having TWO mega trendy bars AND 2 beer providers FIGHTING to get us to move our "Home to them", the bus is really on a roll....

 

Something fricking weird is happening

[Gingeletiss]

Could well be the case. A sensible post.

 

They always are when they agree with your thoughts on any subject. I find these threads so funny, people posting their thoughts, and stating them as fact. So funny!!!

[Dalek2003]

As far as I'm concerned all are welcome. Filling the stadium means filling the coffers of the club.