Our Future? Stadium Expansion Proposal on Season Ticket DVD

[The Kraken]

The closer you are to London or the midlands, the less the pick up you will get from your catchment area. Speak to any Reading fan and they will readily quote the London clubs as the biggest reason their support is so low from that concentration of population. Our biggest extended catchment area comes from Dorset, IOW and the West country, because Southampton is in the way of getting to all those other Premier clubs. One of the biggest effects for getting new faces to Saints has been the Saints in the community program. If that were to be extended to schools in these fertile catchment areas, I can easily see kids dragging a parent or two along to a game they never would have usually attended.

 

I have always believed we have a very good catchment area, but heavily biased towards the west and south. As you go further up the M3 you are competing with 6 other Premier clubs, plus the championship London clubs. Diminishing returns for every mile up the M3.

Personally I think the whole catchment area discussion to be largely a waste of time. Particularly when people claim that getting to the PL (as opposed to being in the Championship) will suddenly mean that signicantly more fans from far away places will start to show an interest in coming to St. Mary's regularly.

 

It's a talking point and no more. It means nothing. We'll attract more fans if we're successful. We'll attract less if we're not. The vast majority will come from within 20 miles or so of the stadium. Anything else is just minor statistics, as I've said especially so in comparison to our 180,000 customers on the database.

[Turkish]

Personally I think the whole catchment area discussion to be largely a waste of time. Particularly when people claim that getting to the PL (as opposed to being in the Championship) will suddenly mean that signicantly more fans from far away places will start to show an interest in coming to St. Mary's regularly.

 

It's a talking point and no more. It means nothing. We'll attract more fans if we're successful. We'll attract less if we're not. The vast majority will come from within 20 miles or so of the stadium. Anything else is just minor statistics, as I've said especially so in comparison to our 180,000 customers on the database.

 

I don't disagree. I find it odd that so many people think there are these thousands of people living in Weymouth, Guildford, Hastings and Shepton Mallet just waiting to spend £100+ on a Saturday to watch a team they aren't really interested in just so they can get their fix of premier league football. These people that in our seven year absence haven't done just that but with other clubs and have now formed an alligence to them. No, all these people have been waiting for Southampton to make it back to the premier league so they can spend their money there. It makes no sense at all.

[stev2001]

I don't disagree. I find it odd that so many people think there are these thousands of people living in Weymouth, Guildford, Hastings and Shepton Mallet just waiting to spend £100+ on a Saturday to watch a team they aren't really interested in just so they can get their fix of premier league football. These people that in our seven year absence haven't done just that but with other clubs and have now formed an alligence to them. No, all these people have been waiting for Southampton to make it back to the premier league so they can spend their money there. It makes no sense at all.

 

No but there alot of people who won't bother to go to SMS to watch walsall but will to watch ManU no matter where they live. I know this as fact as my friend who lives abroad and isn't a Saints fan didn't fancy going to watch walsall for free when he was over last (as I had a spare ticket a few seasons back) but is now asking me if I can get tickets for the ManU game so he can organise a trip that corresponds with that date.

[stug76]

If I was a floating fan with a spare weekend and an urge to get my footie fix, I would probably look at the games available to me within a convenient distance and pick the best one. Southampton in the premier league are a bigger draw than Southampton out of the Premier League. When you look at the geographic region where Southampton are the closest Premiership team you can expect that we will pick up a significant number of floaters.

 

I'd be really interested to see what Saints could do in a bigger stadium. If finance is available I'd be looking at getting the first year in Premier League out of the way and make plans for an additional 8k. I'm pretty sure we would increase our previous best average attendance significantly.

[Turkish]

No but there alot of people who won't bother to go to SMS to watch walsall but will to watch ManU no matter where they live. I know this as fact as my friend who lives abroad and isn't a Saints fan didn't fancy going to watch walsall for free when he was over last (as I had a spare ticket a few seasons back) but is now asking me if I can get tickets for the ManU game so he can organise a trip that corresponds with that date.

 

So we're right then and catchment area is largely irrelevant Just more local people will make the effort to go to the big games, yes?

[Turkish]

If I was a floating fan with a spare weekend and an urge to get my footie fix, I would probably look at the games available to me within a convenient distance and pick the best one. Southampton in the premier league are a bigger draw than Southampton out of the Premier League. When you look at the geographic region where Southampton are the closest Premiership team you can expect that we will pick up a significant number of floaters.

 

I'd be really interested to see what Saints could do in a bigger stadium. If finance is available I'd be looking at getting the first year in Premier League out of the way and make plans for an additional 8k. I'm pretty sure we would increase our previous best average attendance significantly.

 

What do you class as a "floating fan" and what areas are you referring to?

 

As someone that worked in Basingoke during our 2002-03 season in a company of 500 i can confirm that literally one or two fans of other clubs made the journey to SMS that season such was their desperation to part with £60 plus back then for their premier league fix.

[dune]

The thing is the more we sell out, the scarcer tickets become for less glamourous games as people think they are missing out. Saints are different to many clubs with a similar sized fan base because of the geography. People in Hampshire are better off than in most parts of the country and more can afford to go. Villa and Everton may well have a bigger fan base, but we most certainly have a higher proportion that can actually afford it and thus our support base isn't actually too different nowadays.

[stev2001]

So we're right then and catchment area is largely irrelevant Just more local people will make the effort to go to the big games, yes?

 

Catchment is very relevant as those who want to watch ManU and not Walsall will do so at the nearest club they can. If our catchment is big the more of these type of people will come.

[stug76]

What do you class as a "floating fan" and what areas are you referring to?

 

As someone that worked in Basingoke during our 2002-03 season in a company of 500 i can confirm that literally one or two fans of other clubs made the journey to SMS that season such was their desperation to part with £60 plus back then for their premier league fix.

 

I probably would class a floating fan as anyone who enjoys football and for whatever reason doesn't regularly get to follow their "own" team. If I lived in the Manchester area as a saints fan, and a free weekend and fancied watching a match I would probably look at the fixtures that are on that weekend in the area and pick the best one with available tickets. Then, I would class myself as a floating fan. I suppose that could cover any area but it's more likely to be where we are the closest Premiership team.

 

As for your second point I will treat it with the same derision that you treat others and ask whether you literally spoke to all 500 employees or are you just guessing? I'm guessing that there were a significant number of that 500 that you didn't chat to on a regular basis, let alone make small talk about their weekend arrangements.

[Joensuu]

This thread was improving the other day as well... now look at it. Strange how just 2 or 3 bad posters can wreck a thread.

 

Anyhow, floating fans, they do exist, in surprisingly large numbers. I know two lads from Verwood, who claimed to be Cherries, but then proceeded to attend Premier games when they fancied it. Much to my disgust they even joined the phew on occasion, but only when they were in the Premier League. No doubt they will be at one or two of our games next season.

[The Kraken]

Catchment is very relevant as those who want to watch ManU and not Walsall will do so at the nearest club they can. If our catchment is big the more of these type of people will come.

 

Bloody hell, is this really logic? Fans will support Saints because they want to watch Man United? Have I read that wrong? I hope so.

[stev2001]

Bloody hell, is this really logic? Fans will support Saints because they want to watch Man United? Have I read that wrong? I hope so.

Almost, fans will come to Saints games to watch ManU and Prem footy, yes. This is fact as I have been to games many times with non Saints fans because of this.

[stev2001]

I've sat in the away end with a west ham fan to watch middlesbrough before now as he wanted to watch a Prem game in 2003 and I couldn't get tickets with the home supporters.

Edited 22 June, 2012 by stev2001

[The Kraken]

Almost, fans will come to Saints games to watch ManU and Prem footy, yes. This is fact as I have been to games many times with non Saints fans because of this.

I think I'm missing your argument on this. Is this Man U fans coming to Southampton to watch Sainst v Man U? Or neutral fans coming to watch Man U? I'm genuinely confused by what you mean.

[stev2001]

I think I'm missing your argument on this. Is this Man U fans coming to Southampton to watch Sainst v Man U? Or neutral fans coming to watch Man U? I'm genuinely confused by what you mean.

I did actually mean a neutral coming to watch ManU.

[The Kraken]

I did actually mean a neutral coming to watch ManU.

OK. That's 1 game a season. What significant difference does that make? Against Man U we have plenty of home fans who want a ticket already.

 

In fact, where is this even going? This is a ludicrous discussion.

[stev2001]

OK. That's 1 game a season. What significant difference does that make? Against Man U we have plenty of home fans who want a ticket already.

 

In fact, where is this even going? This is a ludicrous discussion.

 

I was just following on from what others were saying.

[The Kraken]

I was just following on from what others were saying.

 

Sorry, I clearly got you confused with someone who had something interesting to say. Thanks for wasting my time.

[Saint86]

No it isn't. Its because no one has come up with any compelling or convincing evidence that firsly we need a bigger ground and secondly that we can fill an extra 12,000 seats without reducing the price. Even your magnificent idea of starting prices at £50 and then reducing them and reducing them until they did sell still involved one imporant factor, reducing the price. I still cant see why an sensible CEO would spend £20m on expanding a stadium and then slash the prices to fill the seats, which however anyone dresses it up, flexible and dynamic pricing are going to do just that.

 

Coming back to my point on another thread, cheapest season tickets at Bayern Munich was £104 - Thats a new ground not an expansion x

[The Kraken]

Edit: Forget it; i'm out. Stupid discussion.

Edited 22 June, 2012 by The Kraken

[Saint86]

Thanks for the riveting breakdown. Are we the only club in the country that draws fans from outside the City? What about the counties surrounding Birmingham like Warwickshire, Staffs, Worcs, Gloucs, North Oxford****e. What about the counties surrounding London, like Kent, Surrey, Essex, Herts? Can provide a breakdown of these areas please so we can do a proper like for like comparision.

 

Also you say we should wrongly exclude Portsmouth from our catchement area. I'm still yet to be convinced as to why anyone supporting Portsmouth would suddely swtich sides to Saints because we are in the Premier league. Even if the theory were true, surely we'd have masses of Southampton residents who switched sides between 2005-09 when the roles were reversed? Surely thousands of Cardiff fans would now be Swansea fans. The same goes for Millwall fans switching to west Ham, are Rangers fans now all going to become Celtic fans because they are in trouble at the moment?

 

My point Turkish, is that saints have a large catchment area, and one in a wealthy area. (Although you have glossed over that point.) We are clearly going to disagree on this, but the simple fact is that outside of Birmingham there are a hell of a lot of other cities and clubs to support. And taking the greater urban area of Birmingham, with 900k split between 3 clubs, as opposed to southampton with 300k for one club, we have an equivalent initial catchment area. You then have the population bases I have listed which includes a further 900k to 1.3million, and again we are the only major club to take the lions share of that. In addition, as stated above, and by other posters, our demographic is significantly wealthier and are more likely to afford the games - please look up stats if you are going to continue attacking me for doing that myself as otherwise it is just your opinion you are spouting... salt, pinch of.

 

You do talk sense on other topics but we are going to clearly disagree on the merits of our catchment area and I cba to argue with you about it. And the reason I include Portsmouth is not because their fans are going to spontaneously follow saints - I wouldn't do the reverse - but because there are, shock horror, saints in Portsmouth and havent etc.

 

I also do not find it inconcievable that fans of other teams will come to SMS to watch their teams which has been dismissed by others in this thread. A prime example is Leeds, I know of 2 seperate groups with 5 and 7 people in who always go to sms (home) to follow leeds. Now in the lower leagues this is not relevant, but in the premier with wider fan bases it will contribute a reasonable following, guessing at maybe 500 for the larger teams but that really is a plucked out of thin air figure.

 

The fact remains that attendance wise we will be the 10th largest club in the country, and as our reputation grows this will increase. In addition, we are 10th in the country because we are currently limited by capacity - THIS IS UNLIKE VILLA AND EVERTON, which as i said, are between 7-10k under their capacity. There is therefore room for improvement and with a local population that will exceed over 1.6million with only 1 club in the top two tiers to follow I do not think our catchment area should be dismissed.

[stev2001]

Sorry, I clearly got you confused with someone who had something interesting to say. Thanks for wasting my time.

Anytime

[Golden Balls]

Absolute made up rubbish.

 

And why must we "grab and hook the rest"?

 

Excuse me? What's made up?

 

Why wouldn't we want to grab the rest? Expand our hardcore fan base. We've already done that by moving to SMS. I don't see the logic in not wanting to attract new fans. Especially kids.

[stev2001]

My point Turkish, is that saints have a large catchment area, and one in a wealthy area. (Although you have glossed over that point.) We are clearly going to disagree on this, but the simple fact is that outside of Birmingham there are a hell of a lot of other cities and clubs to support. And taking the greater urban area of Birmingham, with 900k split between 3 clubs, as opposed to southampton with 300k for one club, we have an equivalent initial catchment area. You then have the population bases I have listed which includes a further 900k to 1.3million, and again we are the only major club to take the lions share of that. In addition, as stated above, and by other posters, our demographic is significantly wealthier and are more likely to afford the games - please look up stats if you are going to continue attacking me for doing that myself as otherwise it is just your opinion you are spouting... salt, pinch of.

 

You do talk sense on other topics but we are going to clearly disagree on the merits of our catchment area and I cba to argue with you about it. And the reason I include Portsmouth is not because their fans are going to spontaneously follow saints - I wouldn't do the reverse - but because there are, shock horror, saints in Portsmouth and havent etc.

 

I also do not find it inconcievable that fans of other teams will come to SMS to watch their teams which has been dismissed by others in this thread. A prime example is Leeds, I know of 2 seperate groups with 5 and 7 people in who always go to sms (home) to follow leeds. Now in the lower leagues this is not relevant, but in the premier with wider fan bases it will contribute a reasonable following, guessing at maybe 500 for the larger teams but that really is a plucked out of thin air figure.

 

The fact remains that attendance wise we will be the 10th largest club in the country, and as our reputation grows this will increase. In addition, we are 10th in the country because we are currently limited by capacity - THIS IS UNLIKE VILLA AND EVERTON, which as i said, are between 7-10k under their capacity. There is therefore room for improvement and with a local population that will exceed over 1.6million with only 1 club in the top two tiers to follow I do not think our catchment area should be dismissed.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying and I think our catchment does become much more important now we are in the Prem. Having a large area and rich catchment probably doesn't bring in many extra supporters in the lower leagues as fair weather fans and fans of other teams don't want to watch Saints v Walsall anyway. Now we are playing the likes of citeh, ManU, liverpool, Newcastle and Everton this catchment will start drawing these fans out especially if they have the money to do so.

[The Kraken]

I also do not find it inconcievable that fans of other teams will come to SMS to watch their teams which has been dismissed by others in this thread. A prime example is Leeds, I know of 2 seperate groups with 5 and 7 people in who always go to sms (home) to follow leeds. Now in the lower leagues this is not relevant, but in the premier with wider fan bases it will contribute a reasonable following, guessing at maybe 500 for the larger teams but that really is a plucked out of thin air figure.

 

If I've got this correct; now we are in the Premier League, more away fans will come to our home games to watch the opposition team? Is that right?

 

Or more away fans will sneak into the home end, maybe?

 

Either way, basing our attendance rising on a full away end or up to 500 away fans in the home end is a slightly weird justification.

 

I'm not sure who is winning this one; stev2001 with his teenage musings or saint86 with his statements of the obvious. And people accuse Turkish et al of being trolls; these two are the worst kinds of pointless idiots you could wish to find.

Edited 22 June, 2012 by The Kraken

[stev2001]

If I've got this correct; now we are in the Premier League, more away fans will come to our home games to watch the opposition team? Is that right?

 

Or more away fans will sneak into the home end, maybe?

 

Either way, basing our attendance rising on a full away end or up to 500 away fans in the home end is a slightly weird justification.

 

I'm not sure who is winning this one; stev2001 with his teenage musings or saint86 with his statements of the obvious. And people accuse Turkish et al of being trolls; these two are the worst kinds of pointless idiots you could wish to find.

 

Mate, I'm not the one one who keeps angling for a bite.

Why is it difficult to understand that now we are in the prem we will attract alot more fans who want to watch Prem football. Whether these are neutrals or away fans (lots of manu fans in hampshire) or just Saints fans who can't be arsed to watch us play walsall but will make the effort to watch against Liverpool. The amount of extra away fans that come to the ground is probably not that many but that added with all the other factors will mean we will probably sell out most of games next season.

You said earlier you didn't understand the point I was trying to make, I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make?

Thats the only bite your getting!

Edited 22 June, 2012 by stev2001

[stev2001]

Edit: Forget it; i'm out. Stupid discussion.

Only took you 30 mins to come back to it though

[The Kraken]

I'm still not sure if its a sensible answer or not, but I'll respond nonetheless.

 

Away fans have got nothing to do with growing as a club. Nothing at all. So lets stop referring to them as a factor, shall we?

 

And as we've risen a division, no doubt our home attendance will grow too? Sing hallelujah!

 

Yeah, I think we're done.

[The Kraken]

Only took you 30 mins to come back to it though

 

I'm a sucker for boredom and idiocy. Who's the bigger idiot? The idiot, or the idiot who responds to him?

 

Go figure.

[stev2001]

I'm still not sure if its a sensible answer or not, but I'll respond nonetheless.

 

Away fans have got nothing to do with growing as a club. Nothing at all. So lets stop referring to them as a factor, shall we?

 

And as we've risen a division, no doubt our home attendance will grow too? Sing hallelujah!

 

Yeah, I think we're done.

 

Are we arguing different points here? Growing as a club?

I was talking about our attendance going up due to more neutrals, ManU fans (citeh, scousre fans etc) living in the Southampton area and fair weather fans going to the game due to our large catchment area?

[The Kraken]

Are we arguing different points here? Growing as a club?

I was talking about our attendance going up due to more neutrals, ManU fans (citeh, scousre fans etc) living in the Southampton area and fair weather fans going to the game due to our large catchment area?

 

Your first point was that more away fans will come to games, wasn't it? Great. 3,200 maximum away fans. As it has always been.

 

On the other hand, apparently there are all those other neutral fans who will come to St Mary's just to watch a Premier League game will make all the difference. Because of our large catchment area. or something.

 

I do confess, I've completely lost what you're trying to say, if it's different from the fact that our home and away attendances will increase a bit because we've gone up a division?

[stev2001]

I'm a sucker for boredom and idiocy. Who's the bigger idiot? The idiot, or the idiot who responds to him?

 

Go figure.

 

I agree with that but I don't know how you come to the conclusion I was an idiot when all I did was carry on with a discussion someone else already started. You were the one who come along and spent a couple of posts trying to work out what point I was making followed by saying the thread was pointless and you were leaving. Then you come back with a couple of insults and argued something different to what I was trying to say again.

I think we both better call it a day before we drive each other nuts.

[stev2001]

Your first point was that more away fans will come to games, wasn't it? Great. 3,200 maximum away fans. As it has always been.

 

On the other hand, apparently there are all those other neutral fans who will come to St Mary's just to watch a Premier League game will make all the difference. Because of our large catchment area. or something.

 

I do confess, I've completely lost what you're trying to say, if it's different from the fact that our home and away attendances will increase a bit because we've gone up a division?

 

Troll troll troll.

The last couple of pages of this thread have been about our increased attendance next season. I was merely continuing on from what others have said that other factors will contribute to this other than just more Saints fans going to matches.

You can now read though all my old posts to try to find something that I might have said that you can slate me with.

Troll troll troll

[The9]

We'll see. Forgive me for being skeptical that thousands of fans in Portsmouth are suddenly going to start actively supporting their big rivals. It didn't happen in Southampton when we were L1 and they were winning the FA cup. Leeds fans haven't suddenly become Man U fans whilst they were in L1 and the championship? Are Caridff fans now following Swansea because they're in the Premier League? Are West Ham braced for all the Millwall fans set to pull in the claret and blue next season now their back in top flight? How welcome are all the Ipswich fans travelling to Carrow Road very week now they've switched teams? I could go on. Is it Happenng there?

 

Have Leeds, Cardiff, Millwall and Ipswich ceased to exist ? There's every possibility Portsmouth might. And much as people can start non-League clubs with good intentions, they just don't have the appeal to some people that a Premier League side might - or even a decent Championship side.

 

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes in South Wales I wouldn't have believed it either. An entire generation of Newportonians growing up with the choice between Southern League football (or worse) or a nearby team in the Football League third, and then second tier... who'd have thought they'd go and watch the more successful side ? When you have no affiliation to a local club to begin with it's a lot easier. That might be the case for a generation of Skates to come. Even if it isn't, other inroads can be made in marginal areas.

 

Then again there's a much more significant plastic fanbase in South Wales due precisely to the clubs NOT being in the top leagues for years on end, so people are a little less hard and fast with their club affections as most of them are Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool fans as well... not so much the case down here, but you only have to look at the kids with the Arsenal shirts playing outside Albion Towers to know that there's a market there, and there would be lapsed plastic Gooners in Portsmouth as well.

[Turkish]

Have Leeds, Cardiff, Millwall and Ipswich ceased to exist ? There's every possibility Portsmouth might. And much as people can start non-League clubs with good intentions, they just don't have the appeal to some people that a Premier League side might - or even a decent Championship side.

 

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes in South Wales I wouldn't have believed it either. An entire generation of Newportonians growing up with the choice between Southern League football (or worse) or a nearby team in the Football League third, and then second tier... who'd have thought they'd go and watch the more successful side ? When you have no affiliation to a local club to begin with it's a lot easier. That might be the case for a generation of Skates to come. Even if it isn't, other inroads can be made in marginal areas.

 

Then again there's a much more significant plastic fanbase in South Wales due precisely to the clubs NOT being in the top leagues for years on end, so people are a little less hard and fast with their club affections as most of them are Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool fans as well... not so much the case down here, but you only have to look at the kids with the Arsenal shirts playing outside Albion Towers to know that there's a market there, and there would be lapsed plastic Gooners in Portsmouth as well.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that any of the 16,000 or so skates that were at Fratton Park in December chanting about how much they hate scummers are going to start coming to St Mary's?

 

It's one thing to start going regularly from watching your local lower/non league side and even then what sort of crowds did Newport get? 4-5k at a guess? And deciding you want to go see Cardiff in the championship instead to expecting Pompey fans to become Saints fans and come to St Mary's. I honestly can't believe people are seriously considering this as a possibility. Let me spell is out for you, they f*cking hate us. They f*cking despise anything from Southampton. Anyone that thinks there are train loads of Portsmouth born football fans counting down the days until they can attend st Marys to watch premier league football is not living in the real world and is f*cking mental.

[Sour Mash]

Are you seriously suggesting that any of the 16,000 or so skates that were at Fratton Park in December chanting about how much they hate scummers are going to start coming to St Mary's?

 

It's one thing to start going regularly from watching your local lower/non league side and even then what sort of crowds did Newport get? 4-5k at a guess? And deciding you want to go see Cardiff in the championship instead to expecting Pompey fans to become Saints fans and come to St Mary's. I honestly can't believe people are seriously considering this as a possibility. Let me spell is out for you, they f*cking hate us. They f*cking despise anything from Southampton. Anyone that thinks there are train loads of Portsmouth born football fans counting down the days until they can attend st Marys to watch premier league football is not living in the real world and is f*cking mental.

Look we need to expand St Marys asap so people from Portsmouth can come and watch Premier League football and neutrals from Basingstoke can come once a year to see Man Utd play. I'd have thought that would be pretty obvious for anyone that knows anything about football?

[Hopkins]

How has a thread about a stadium that is nothing more than a drawing and is 10/15/20 years down the line, by which time the owners probably won't be here anymore and the plans would have changed considerably got to 12 pages?

[IFHP]

How has a thread about a stadium that is nothing more than a drawing and is 10/15/20 years down the line, by which time the owners probably won't be here anymore and the plans would have changed considerably got to 12 pages?

 

Because some people actually think that these drawings are going to happen / should happen now. In their world we are as big as Everton, Aston Villa and are the club most neutrals in the whole of England would come and watch.

[Thedelldays]

So everyone from Portsmouth supports Portsmouth and everyone from Southampton supports Southampton?

 

We have no chance of attracting current pompey fans. No one is saying that. However there are general football fans, PL fans, unloyal kids and people who are not born and bred pomp*y. So yes, there is a chance of attracting support from a PO post code. Not 1000s, but some. Especially those towns between the 2 cities

 

Serious question

How many saints goers do you think we're helping to fill fratton park around 2008?

[saint lard]

I have to say there appears to have been an upsurge in SFC fans in and around Gosport theses past 12 months or so.

a fair few are coming out of the woodwork,especially in my local public house.

more vocal and prepared to show their colours,wheresas previously were much more conservative in showing their allegiance .

[Turkish]

Serious question

How many saints goers do you think we're helping to fill fratton park around 2008?

 

I hope Cortese has some flexible pricing innovations up his sleeve to win back all those fans we lost to Pompey between 2005-09 when we were sh*t and they were in the premier league.

[Torrent Of Abuse]

The problem is Kraken and Turkish you both think it's all about the hardcore support but it's not. Sadly people really will just come to see Premiership football - and not just ManU and ManC but whatever they can (within reason). After all surely you already argued yourselves that thousands of fans deserted us when we were outside the top flight. Why is it so hard to see that this wasn't just Saints fans who didn't fancy the lower leagues but people who had come to see two Premier League sides front up? At the Dell I used to sit near a lot of fans from Devon, Dorset and further afield. Where else would they have gone to see a Premier League side?

 

I think you are being facetious, Turkish, when you claim that Pompey fans will not cross the divide. We all know that the hardcore definitely won't but there are plenty of fair weather fans who would. Come on, have you never worked alongside fans of other clubs who when pushed don't actually know much about their sides? They support Chelsea. They used to support Arsenal. They are thinking about Man City. Etc etc. Building a big ground will invite these people in but of course we don't expect them to stay fans - but maybe their kids will be. Hands up who knows fans who came from well outside the city boundaries but started supporting the club after their parents took them to a Saints game. I have a mate from Weymouth who first came to see Premier League football. Now he's a fan (even in the lower leagues). Another was a Bournemouth fan. Now he's a fan - but mostly because his kids are.

 

Perfectly ready for you both to roll your eyes in amazement at such a stupid opinion. Feel free to start talking about owning all the fans from Birmingham southwards. Or throw your toys out the pram, storm off and come back again in half an hour. Whatever works for you.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I have lived in Poole for the past 20 years, and the number of Saints fans I have met, or seen around with shirts on is directly linked to how we are doing and what legaue we are in. Right through the late 90's and early 00's there were plenty, but the last few years there has been less and less.Last season they started popping up again. I travel by train most games, and there used to be a large number of Saints supporters already on the train, when I got on at Poole. The past few years, there have been hardly any. Now, unless people from Weymouth & Wareham ect have started driving it must be linked to which league we're in. I guess we will see whether they are back next year.

 

The fact that we were in the top league alone for the most part of 30 years, has attracted people from all over Dorset. Surely had Boscombe been in the top flight and Saints in the 3rd & 4th tier, these people from Weymouth, Wimborne, Ferndown ect ect would have been going to watch Boscombe.

 

Playing in the top flight and having a degree of sucsess clearly widens your catchment area, and increases the number of fair weather fans. Most on here are "hardcore" and will follow Saints in what ever league we're in, but there are thousends who just want to be seen to support a sucsessful/top flight club.

 

It's why there are loads of non scousers in their 40's support Liverpool and loads of non mancs in their 30's support Man U, and why in 30 years time there will be loads of middle aged man City supporters, who have no connection with the City.

[CB Fry]

The problem is Kraken and Turkish you both think it's all about the hardcore support but it's not. Sadly people really will just come to see Premiership football - and not just ManU and ManC but whatever they can (within reason). After all surely you already argued yourselves that thousands of fans deserted us when we were outside the top flight. Why is it so hard to see that this wasn't just Saints fans who didn't fancy the lower leagues but people who had come to see two Premier League sides front up? At the Dell I used to sit near a lot of fans from Devon, Dorset and further afield. Where else would they have gone to see a Premier League side?

 

I think you are being facetious, Turkish, when you claim that Pompey fans will not cross the divide. We all know that the hardcore definitely won't but there are plenty of fair weather fans who would. Come on, have you never worked alongside fans of other clubs who when pushed don't actually know much about their sides? They support Chelsea. They used to support Arsenal. They are thinking about Man City. Etc etc. Building a big ground will invite these people in but of course we don't expect them to stay fans - but maybe their kids will be. Hands up who knows fans who came from well outside the city boundaries but started supporting the club after their parents took them to a Saints game. I have a mate from Weymouth who first came to see Premier League football. Now he's a fan (even in the lower leagues). Another was a Bournemouth fan. Now he's a fan - but mostly because his kids are.

 

Perfectly ready for you both to roll your eyes in amazement at such a stupid opinion. Feel free to start talking about owning all the fans from Birmingham southwards. Or throw your toys out the pram, storm off and come back again in half an hour. Whatever works for you.

 

Yes, but aren't these people going to be accounted for in the upcoming leap from mid- late-20k gates and the 32k gates we're going to get next season?

 

You're not seriously suggesting we need to spend millions on 6,7,10 thousand new seats entirely for random ex-Arsenal fans and day trippers?

Edited 23 June, 2012 by CB Fry

[Golden Balls]

Serious question

How many saints goers do you think we're helping to fill fratton park around 2008?

 

Hardly any. But that's not why I said anyway. If you read what I said again, it said that we won't attract current Pompey fans. My point was the fair weather fans, the fans without a club, kids just getting into football, PL fans, and there are plenty of those in the PO post code. Especially in the towns the middle of us and them.

 

Nobody is suggesting Pompey fans will switch to Saints fans!!

[Junior Mullet]

When we were in the Prem I would often find young guys across from the continent on days or weekends out, keen to take in a bit of Premier League football. We have well connected airports at Southampton and Bournemouth and of course ferries - if we can get top names to play for us you will see quite a few people coming from Europe to watch us play. I'm sure Nicola is well aware of this.

 

I know people here in Southampton who regularly go and watch Barca play because it's quite cheap and easy to get there.

[colehillsaint]

The problem is Kraken and Turkish you both think it's all about the hardcore support but it's not. Sadly people really will just come to see Premiership football - and not just ManU and ManC but whatever they can (within reason). After all surely you already argued yourselves that thousands of fans deserted us when we were outside the top flight. Why is it so hard to see that this wasn't just Saints fans who didn't fancy the lower leagues but people who had come to see two Premier League sides front up? At the Dell I used to sit near a lot of fans from Devon, Dorset and further afield. Where else would they have gone to see a Premier League side?

 

I think you are being facetious, Turkish, when you claim that Pompey fans will not cross the divide. We all know that the hardcore definitely won't but there are plenty of fair weather fans who would. Come on, have you never worked alongside fans of other clubs who when pushed don't actually know much about their sides? They support Chelsea. They used to support Arsenal. They are thinking about Man City. Etc etc. Building a big ground will invite these people in but of course we don't expect them to stay fans - but maybe their kids will be. Hands up who knows fans who came from well outside the city boundaries but started supporting the club after their parents took them to a Saints game. I have a mate from Weymouth who first came to see Premier League football. Now he's a fan (even in the lower leagues). Another was a Bournemouth fan. Now he's a fan - but mostly because his kids are.

 

Perfectly ready for you both to roll your eyes in amazement at such a stupid opinion. Feel free to start talking about owning all the fans from Birmingham southwards. Or throw your toys out the pram, storm off and come back again in half an hour. Whatever works for you.

 

People's arguments are formed from there personal experience though aren't they. I can see your point because I grew up in Dorset. I live in east Dorset. Last season, the house next door and the house immediately across the road both had regular SMS attendees. If you cross the forest at half one on a Saturday afternoon you see loads of cars with clues that they are going to the game. I'm in business and the amount of people we deal with that are real fair weather saints support!

 

I bet if you grew up within a mile of the Dell and that's your perspective, this all sounds like a total load of cobblers. You know people who are die hard Saints, and others within the city that have zero interest in football or the club, and the two groups are pretty fixed.

 

We also all argue hard for what we actually want as well. That is a separate question. I don't know. Funny as the skirmishes on these threads are, it will be a clearer issue 10 games into the season.

[CB Fry]

People's arguments are formed from there personal experience though aren't they. I can see your point because I grew up in Dorset. I live in east Dorset. Last season, the house next door and the house immediately across the road both had regular SMS attendees. If you cross the forest at half one on a Saturday afternoon you see loads of cars with clues that they are going to the game. I'm in business and the amount of people we deal with that are real fair weather saints support!

 

I bet if you grew up within a mile of the Dell and that's your perspective, this all sounds like a total load of cobblers. You know people who are die hard Saints, and others within the city that have zero interest in football or the club, and the two groups are pretty fixed.

 

We also all argue hard for what we actually want as well. That is a separate question. I don't know. Funny as the skirmishes on these threads are, it will be a clearer issue 10 games into the season.

 

Two points. Ten games into the season I expect ten sell outs. Everyone does. Won't mean a great deal unless we have, prior to that, smashed our season ticket record.

 

And this stuff about "my neighbour in dorset" is just irrelevent. Any club of similar size can easily say the same thing. I know someone from Oakham in Leicestershire: Villa ST holder. Long old trip. So what. All clubs have fans in a wider vicinity. What it isn't is a great unlocker for significant growth.

Edited 23 June, 2012 by CB Fry

[Frank's cousin]

22-23K hard core

50k at Wembley for teh tin pot

50k+ on the club database has individuals having bought tickets

 

The not so simple question is how do you convert those 30odd K from being 2-3 times a year attendees to 10+ times a year? That is the question and the one I believe NC/ML were thinking about when making statements of aspiration. Make headway into that and aspiration becomes intent. Maintain it and intent becomes reality. Think we are all agreed on that logic, but, it seems that we are divided on where the level of risk influences the timing. Wait until we have 5k on an ST waiting list? Or go early, combine with a comprehensive pricing revue and make the package more attractive?

 

Waiting is less risky when considering 30-40 mil plus investment and the cost of servicing that over 20+years at commercial rates... but it runs the risk of it us losing potential fans along the way who struggle to get tickets - as we do now, not through capacity but through cost being prohibitive.

 

Go earlier and its high risk in that we may see rows of empty seats, especially if nothing were done on pricing to ensure great accessibilty, especially when times are tough.

 

That is my opinion - Laugh away Turkish et al... but this is a forum for opinion and you I would bet NC will be considering ALL the options, as I doubt they are so blinkered.

[CB Fry]

22-23K hard core

50k at Wembley for teh tin pot

50k+ on the club database has individuals having bought tickets

 

.

 

 

18,000 or so avg attendance in our champ relegation season, so your hardcore is a bit off.

 

Didn't read the rest. Unquestionably tedious rambling around sixteen points of the debate with no actual point made. Am I right?