Our Future? Stadium Expansion Proposal on Season Ticket DVD

[Wurzel]

It is unique. Half of it is in the sea, a large % of it is Forest and overlapping with London club areas like Basingstoke. Yet Apparantly is massive, much bigger than anyone else in the country and it means thousands of fans from Surrrey, Kent, Sussex, Somerset, Wales, Warwickshire, Devon and Cornwall are all going got come to Southampton now to see premier league football.

 

I find it hard to fathom why some of your answers can be so sensible (even when it's clear they are just trolling) and others so ridiculously childish.

 

Why include Wales, Warwickshire, Kent and Cornwall in a feeble attempt to make a point?. The rest, yes maybe, all within driving distance, and where else can they go if they want to watch Premier League football?

Last years average attendance based on % of capacity

Arsenal 99.5%

Chelsea 99.1%

Fulham 98.4%

QPR 94.2%

 

I would guess Reading and WestHam likely to be around those sort of figures again in the top flight.

 

So where can the casual fan from Hampshire, Dorset, W.Sussex, Somerset, Wiltshire, Eastern Devon, Surrey, happy to drive say 1 to 11/2 hours go to watch PL football ? They can forget those clubs, they'll struggle to get tickets. Hence we have a huge catchment area.

 

No surprise that Spurs, Fulham and Chelsea are all looking to extend and/or move to bigger grounds - they know those people are out there and want to see PL football

[Wurzel]

I find it hard to fathom why some of your answers can be so sensible (even when it's clear they are just trolling) and others so ridiculously childish.

 

Why include Wales, Warwickshire, Kent and Cornwall in a feeble attempt to make a point?. The rest, yes maybe, all within driving distance, and where else can they go if they want to watch Premier League football?

Last years average attendance based on % of capacity

Arsenal 99.5%

Chelsea 99.1%

Fulham 98.4%

QPR 94.2%

 

I would guess Reading and WestHam likely to be around those sort of figures again in the top flight.

 

So where can the casual fan from Hampshire, Dorset, W.Sussex, Somerset, Wiltshire, Eastern Devon, Surrey, happy to drive say 1 to 11/2 hours go to watch PL football ? They can forget those clubs, they'll struggle to get tickets. Hence we have a huge catchment area.

 

No surprise that Spurs, Fulham and Chelsea are all looking to extend and/or move to bigger grounds - they know those people are out there and want to see PL football

 

Forgot the link http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

[100%Red&White]

Just a thought but maybe the extra building is intended to hold a new sports store, conference suite and offices? Would moving those out and leaving only corporate boxes, would that help reduce the weight load and free up space for seating and turnstiles, etc.?

 

As far as I understood it, adding extra seating to the Kingsland, Northam and Chapel was fairly straightforward but the Itchen, while it was do-able, was more problematic and expensive, with issues with foundations and offices/suites. But (and I’m obviously no structural engineer!) I would have thought an entirely separate structure could be built off it’s own new footings behind the existing stand to provide a, in effect, ‘stand-alone’ top tier that would just be taking the weight of the upper bank of seating and roof.

 

See, this building lark is easy!

[The Kraken]

I find it hard to fathom why some of your answers can be so sensible (even when it's clear they are just trolling) and others so ridiculously childish.

 

Why include Wales, Warwickshire, Kent and Cornwall in a feeble attempt to make a point?. The rest, yes maybe, all within driving distance, and where else can they go if they want to watch Premier League football?

Last years average attendance based on % of capacity

Arsenal 99.5%

Chelsea 99.1%

Fulham 98.4%

QPR 94.2%

 

I would guess Reading and WestHam likely to be around those sort of figures again in the top flight.

 

So where can the casual fan from Hampshire, Dorset, W.Sussex, Somerset, Wiltshire, Eastern Devon, Surrey, happy to drive say 1 to 11/2 hours go to watch PL football ? They can forget those clubs, they'll struggle to get tickets. Hence we have a huge catchment area.

 

No surprise that Spurs, Fulham and Chelsea are all looking to extend and/or move to bigger grounds - they know those people are out there and want to see PL football

I'll be perfectly honest; I've never heard anyone say they support Saints because Arsenal were full up.

 

Our immediate catchment area is obvious; its good that we have no other club within 15 or 20 miles of us. As we get bigger we will likely attract more new fans from the likes of Fareham, Locks Heath, Ringwood, Winchester etc. Outside of 30 or 40 miles its negligible how many fans are going to gravitate towards us. Even north Hampshire we're massively up against the likes of Reading, QPR and the London sides. And a real pipe dream to imagine that significant numbers of fans from W.Sussex, East Devon and Surrey are going to look at Saints as the new Man City and gravitate towards us.

 

Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

[Saint86]

Forgot the link http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england

 

Based on those figures we are a similar sized club to both Aston Villa and Everton, it should be pointed out that those clubs are between 7-10k under their respective capacities. Saints will sell out 32k every week giving us the 10th or 11th largest attendance in the premier (dependant on West Ham). Clearly we have a decent fan base and catchment area. To argue otherwise (aka turkish) is a bit silly in the least. We have fans from Salisbury to Pool to Winchester. The combined population of these areas would easily equal a city the size of Bristol or even Birmingham. Now while we are not the only club, we are the biggest and we do not face the competition that exists in London or Birmingham, which has 1million people split between 3 very large, and very equal clubs. I am also not including Portsmouth in our "catchment area" although lets face it, we have fans their, and their numbers will increase. There are saints fans in Ringwood, I mean ffs, there are a couple of hundred in my home village and that only has a population of 3000, saints are essentially the only club that matters in the region. That is not to deduct from the cherries, but they can hold what, 10k? are a 30min train journey away, don't have the history, and their fans have been brought up on a staple diet of our future players.

 

So to put population numbers to this -

 

Southampton and Eastleigh - 304,400

Winchester - 41,000

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole - 383,000

Basingstoke - 90,000

Salisbury - 40,000

Romsey - 17,500

Portsmouth and surrounding area - 450,000

Population of New forest - 172,000

Isle of White - 140,000

 

I don't think it is unrealistic to assume we draw fans from these areas as an immediate catchment area. I mean come on Turkish - we had approximately the 20th largest attendance playing in the 3rd tier. These people don't just magically appear at a click of Nicola's fingers. Saints have a large catchment area, the proof is in our attendances relative to the existing attendance averages for premier teams. Birmingham has a population of 950k spread over 3 major clubs. We are the only premier league team in this catchment area and there are NO SECOND TIER TEAMS. Total population of this area is some 1.64million, or 1.2 million if you excluded (wrongly) Portsmouth. Add to this the fact that their isn't really an alternative competitive sport in the area - i.e. rugby for Bristol and I believe I feel happy to say that our catchment area is pretty damn large. Especially as I have not considered all the smaller towns and villages, or the fact that we have fans who are further afield such as reading, Guildford or even Bristol.)

[Sour Mash]

Based on those figures we are a similar sized club to both Aston Villa and Everton, it should be pointed out that those clubs are between 7-10k under their respective capacities. Saints will sell out 32k every week giving us the 10th or 11th largest attendance in the premier (dependant on West Ham). Clearly we have a decent fan base and catchment area. To argue otherwise (aka turkish) is a bit silly in the least. We have fans from Salisbury to Pool to Winchester. The combined population of these areas would easily equal a city the size of Bristol or even Birmingham. Now while we are not the only club, we are the biggest and we do not face the competition that exists in London or Birmingham, which has 1million people split between 3 very large, and very equal clubs. I am also not including Portsmouth in our "catchment area" although lets face it, we have fans their, and their numbers will increase. There are saints fans in Ringwood, I mean ffs, there are a couple of hundred in my home village and that only has a population of 3000, saints are essentially the only club that matters in the region. That is not to deduct from the cherries, but they can hold what, 10k? are a 30min train journey away, don't have the history, and their fans have been brought up on a staple diet of our future players.

 

So to put population numbers to this -

 

Southampton and Eastleigh - 304,400

Winchester - 41,000

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole - 383,000

Basingstoke - 90,000

Salisbury - 40,000

Romsey - 17,500

Portsmouth and surrounding area - 450,000

Population of New forest - 172,000

Isle of White - 140,000

 

I don't think it is unrealistic to assume we draw fans from these areas as an immediate catchment area. I mean come on Turkish - we had approximately the 20th largest attendance playing in the 3rd tier. These people don't just magically appear at a click of Nicola's fingers. Saints have a large catchment area, the proof is in our attendances relative to the existing attendance averages for premier teams. Birmingham has a population of 950k spread over 3 major clubs. We are the only premier league team in this catchment area and there are NO SECOND TIER TEAMS. Total population of this area is some 1.64million, or 1.2 million if you excluded (wrongly) Portsmouth. Add to this the fact that their isn't really an alternative competitive sport in the area - i.e. rugby for Bristol and I believe I feel happy to say that our catchment area is pretty damn large. Especially as I have not considered all the smaller towns and villages, or the fact that we have fans who are further afield such as reading, Guildford or even Bristol.)

So Aston Villa only draw fans from Birmingham? No-one is saying that we don't pull fans in from different bits of Hampshire or that our support will never grow from what it currently is.

 

And on a slightly separate point why are so many on here keen to see casual fans that just want to see a bit of Premier League football turning up at St Marys, I can't think of anything worse. Hopefully they'll continue to do what they've always done for their "fix" of top-flight action.

[JPTCount]

Do correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this is only a view of the future and NC's ambition for the club.

 

I know u all have valid points about who's a bigger club, and y this won't ever happen, but I'm pretty sure NC has better business sense than all of u put together, and again, this is only an example of his hopes and dreams for the club. it's not about who's bigger or club comparison, it's about his ambition for the club, and football not about catchment area, money or sexy fans, its about results, if we dont get the results then NC won't expand the stadium. wots there to debate about? just take it as it is and be happy that he's not Lowe.

 

I'm pretty glad a fan consortium never took over the club, as nothing would get done through all the *****ing, season ticket waving and fashion shows

[The Kraken]

So Aston Villa only draw fans from Birmingham? No-one is saying that we don't pull fans in from different bits of Hampshire or that our support will never grow from what it currently is.

 

And on a slightly separate point why are so many on here keen to see casual fans that just want to see a bit of Premier League football turning up at St Marys, I can't think of anything worse. Hopefully they'll continue to do what they've always done for their "fix" of top-flight action.

 

The whole catchment area discussion is really quite bizarre. I was reading through an old thread yesterday and someone popped up to say that Liverpool's metroplitan area and catchment area was similar to ours, and they also have Everton to consider, so therefore we could be on an equal footing. It's quite astounding really.

[Dig Dig]

Do correct me if I'm wrong, but surely this is only a view of the future and NC's ambition for the club.

 

I know u all have valid points about who's a bigger club, and y this won't ever happen, but I'm pretty sure NC has better business sense than all of u put together, and again, this is only an example of his hopes and dreams for the club. it's not about who's bigger or club comparison, it's about his ambition for the club, and football not about catchment area, money or sexy fans, its about results, if we dont get the results then NC won't expand the stadium. wots there to debate about? just take it as it is and be happy that he's not Lowe.

 

I'm pretty glad a fan consortium never took over the club, as nothing would get done through all the *****ing, season ticket waving and fashion shows

 

Well said

[Turkish]

Based on those figures we are a similar sized club to both Aston Villa and Everton, it should be pointed out that those clubs are between 7-10k under their respective capacities. Saints will sell out 32k every week giving us the 10th or 11th largest attendance in the premier (dependant on West Ham). Clearly we have a decent fan base and catchment area. To argue otherwise (aka turkish) is a bit silly in the least. We have fans from Salisbury to Pool to Winchester. The combined population of these areas would easily equal a city the size of Bristol or even Birmingham. Now while we are not the only club, we are the biggest and we do not face the competition that exists in London or Birmingham, which has 1million people split between 3 very large, and very equal clubs. I am also not including Portsmouth in our "catchment area" although lets face it, we have fans their, and their numbers will increase. There are saints fans in Ringwood, I mean ffs, there are a couple of hundred in my home village and that only has a population of 3000, saints are essentially the only club that matters in the region. That is not to deduct from the cherries, but they can hold what, 10k? are a 30min train journey away, don't have the history, and their fans have been brought up on a staple diet of our future players.

 

So to put population numbers to this -

 

Southampton and Eastleigh - 304,400

Winchester - 41,000

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole - 383,000

Basingstoke - 90,000

Salisbury - 40,000

Romsey - 17,500

Portsmouth and surrounding area - 450,000

Population of New forest - 172,000

Isle of White - 140,000

 

I don't think it is unrealistic to assume we draw fans from these areas as an immediate catchment area. I mean come on Turkish - we had approximately the 20th largest attendance playing in the 3rd tier. These people don't just magically appear at a click of Nicola's fingers. Saints have a large catchment area, the proof is in our attendances relative to the existing attendance averages for premier teams. Birmingham has a population of 950k spread over 3 major clubs. We are the only premier league team in this catchment area and there are NO SECOND TIER TEAMS. Total population of this area is some 1.64million, or 1.2 million if you excluded (wrongly) Portsmouth. Add to this the fact that their isn't really an alternative competitive sport in the area - i.e. rugby for Bristol and I believe I feel happy to say that our catchment area is pretty damn large. Especially as I have not considered all the smaller towns and villages, or the fact that we have fans who are further afield such as reading, Guildford or even Bristol.)

 

Thanks for the riveting breakdown. Are we the only club in the country that draws fans from outside the City? What about the counties surrounding Birmingham like Warwickshire, Staffs, Worcs, Gloucs, North Oxford****e. What about the counties surrounding London, like Kent, Surrey, Essex, Herts? Can provide a breakdown of these areas please so we can do a proper like for like comparision.

 

Also you say we should wrongly exclude Portsmouth from our catchement area. I'm still yet to be convinced as to why anyone supporting Portsmouth would suddely swtich sides to Saints because we are in the Premier league. Even if the theory were true, surely we'd have masses of Southampton residents who switched sides between 2005-09 when the roles were reversed? Surely thousands of Cardiff fans would now be Swansea fans. The same goes for Millwall fans switching to west Ham, are Rangers fans now all going to become Celtic fans because they are in trouble at the moment?

[Wurzel]

I'll be perfectly honest; I've never heard anyone say they support Saints because Arsenal were full up.

 

Our immediate catchment area is obvious; its good that we have no other club within 15 or 20 miles of us. As we get bigger we will likely attract more new fans from the likes of Fareham, Locks Heath, Ringwood, Winchester etc. Outside of 30 or 40 miles its negligible how many fans are going to gravitate towards us. Even north Hampshire we're massively up against the likes of Reading, QPR and the London sides. And a real pipe dream to imagine that significant numbers of fans from W.Sussex, East Devon and Surrey are going to look at Saints as the new Man City and gravitate towards us.

 

Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

 

Where, anywhere did I mention supporting Saints? My post specifically mentioned casual fans who want to watch Premier League football. I know it's hard for some to believe but there are a huge number of people around who simply just want to watch and/or experience live PL football. Some will always be casual, others will be converted to become one club fans. The important thing is attracting them and having room for them. Get them once, hopefully they'll enjoy it and come again as neutral or supporter. Surprisingly when the Pemier League carried out a National Fans Survey only 53% of fans gave the reason for attending their first game was because it was their local team.

Casual floaters also probably bring more money into the club on a person by match basis. Don't attend regularly so more likely to be willing to splash out on a higher price ticket. Probably don't know the area around the ground so well so more likely to fork out for food and drink in the stadium instead of pubs etc. Not to mention corporate guests. Much as I, probably along with most of us, hate to admit it, the casual "prawn sarnie" brigade is where the money is. There's no need for the club to do anything to attract the "hardcore" fans, they'll turn up regardless.

[aintforever]

No one is suggesting that size of catchment area = size of support, though that fact is obviously lost on the usual suspects.

 

Catchment area is obviously a factor for potential support from fairweathers and neutrals etc - people you need to convert to more regular goers in order to build the fan base.

[aintforever]

I'll be perfectly honest; I've never heard anyone say they support Saints because Arsenal were full up.

 

My mate supports Arsenal and he's had a ST at St Mary's for years. At first it was because they were full up at Highbury then it's more for convenience.

[Sour Mash]

Where, anywhere did I mention supporting Saints? My post specifically mentioned casual fans who want to watch Premier League football. I know it's hard for some to believe but there are a huge number of people around who simply just want to watch and/or experience live PL football. Some will always be casual, others will be converted to become one club fans. The important thing is attracting them and having room for them. Get them once, hopefully they'll enjoy it and come again as neutral or supporter. Surprisingly when the Pemier League carried out a National Fans Survey only 53% of fans gave the reason for attending their first game was because it was their local team.

Casual floaters also probably bring more money into the club on a person by match basis. Don't attend regularly so more likely to be willing to splash out on a higher price ticket. Probably don't know the area around the ground so well so more likely to fork out for food and drink in the stadium instead of pubs etc. Not to mention corporate guests. Much as I, probably along with most of us, hate to admit it, the casual "prawn sarnie" brigade is where the money is. There's no need for the club to do anything to attract the "hardcore" fans, they'll turn up regardless.

The only other club I can really think where this might have applied, is the increase in crowds at Reading - and I definitely don't want to be like them regardless of how much money we might make.

[The Kraken]

No one is suggesting that size of catchment area = size of support, though that fact is obviously lost on the usual suspects.

 

Catchment area is obviously a factor for potential support from fairweathers and neutrals etc - people you need to convert to more regular goers in order to build the fan base.

 

Well what is the point then? Because I'm clearly missing it; other than if its to state that most SFC customers live fairly close to Southampton, fewer than that live 30 - 50 miles away, even fewer still live further away and some live really far. And some might choose to come and watch us play, once in a while, because Premier League football is such a massive draw.

 

Is that it? Because genuinely, if not, then I don't know what point is being made.

[suewhistle]

The vaguaries of the "Our future?" statement suggest to me that the club are laying down a challenge to the supporters. IMO we need to show at least 2, 3 maybe 4 seasons of continual sell-outs before the stadium expansion dream will become a reality. In the interim we can (and I hope we do) press on with formal plans, planning permission etc, but I think the go/no go decision is a few years away yet.

 

I don't think we're that far apart; I'm probably "1, 2 maybe 3 seasons", which is why I think this first season is so critical!

[100%Red&White]

My mate supports Arsenal and he's had a ST at St Mary's for years. At first it was because they were full up at Highbury then it's more for convenience.

 

I think I know him. Is his name Charlie Wayman?

[buctootim]

Where, anywhere did I mention supporting Saints? My post specifically mentioned casual fans who want to watch Premier League football. I know it's hard for some to believe but there are a huge number of people around who simply just want to watch and/or experience live PL football. Some will always be casual, others will be converted to become one club fans. The important thing is attracting them and having room for them. Get them once, hopefully they'll enjoy it and come again as neutral or supporter. Surprisingly when the Pemier League carried out a National Fans Survey only 53% of fans gave the reason for attending their first game was because it was their local team.

Casual floaters also probably bring more money into the club on a person by match basis. Don't attend regularly so more likely to be willing to splash out on a higher price ticket. Probably don't know the area around the ground so well so more likely to fork out for food and drink in the stadium instead of pubs etc. Not to mention corporate guests. Much as I, probably along with most of us, hate to admit it, the casual "prawn sarnie" brigade is where the money is. There's no need for the club to do anything to attract the "hardcore" fans, they'll turn up regardless.

 

Nutshell. There are many things the club can do to increase average attendance very quickly to c34-38,000 if Saints are only moderately successful. Higher than that might be possible over time. Im not sure why some even try to dispute it given its been done before. The average attendance in the early 1980s was around 18,000 in a 24,000 capacity Dell but had nearly doubled to 30,000 by 2003.

 

Maybe its because much of the additional support may come from corporates, women, kids, middle classes that there is so much opposition to the possibility of expansion and finger in the ear stuff. I suspect a lot of it is to do with macho posturing by a few aging fans who like to misremember how football used to be a working mans game and they regularly 'took' this pub or that end - when in reality it was usually handbags and a nice little choreographed chant and run routine.

Edited 22 June, 2012 by buctootim

[suewhistle]

There's always been an element of non-partisan football fans wanting to watch: I remember standing under the West Stand at The Dell and talking to random fans who just happened to be working in the area and wanted a fix of football. Those obviously disappeared when The Dell went all seater.

 

The other area we need to boost is the amount of youngsters coming because once they're addicted they'll always be fans, however far away they end up - as this forum proves! [saintsWeb - catchment area The World!] I first became interested when not even living in the country as dad was working abroad and getting excited when we first got promoted to the First Division. We need to hook in to the current situation as well, although prices these days are a big disincentive. I've always wondered if the apparent [by their actions] lack of enthusiasm by the club for season tickets was to keep the interest of a larger pool of fans and not just for additional revenue.

[buctootim]

The only other club I can really think where this might have applied, is the increase in crowds at Reading - and I definitely don't want to be like them regardless of how much money we might make.

 

Its the way the game has gone generally though. From tribal predominantly male working class passion driven supporters to a more family oriented leisure activity. Some might regret the change - but thats where the bigger attendances and money is.

[buctootim]

My mate supports Arsenal and he's had a ST at St Mary's for years. At first it was because they were full up at Highbury then it's more for convenience.

 

Exactly. Works the other way too. My brother used to live in Finsbury park and we would regularly go to Arsenal matches a few times a season if I was up in London for the weekend and Saints werent playing.

[Sour Mash]

Nutshell. There are many things the club can do to increase average attendance very quickly to c34-38,000 if Saints are only moderately successful. Higher than that might be possible over time. Im not sure why some even try to dispute it given its been done before. The average attendance in the early 1980s was around 18,000 in a 24,000 capacity Dell but had nearly doubled to 30,000 by 2003.

 

Maybe its because much of the additional support may come from corporates, women, kids, middle classes that there is so much opposition and finger in the ear stuff. I suspect a lot of it is to do with macho posturing by a few aging, going to seed ****s who like to misremember how football used to be a working mans game and they regularly 'took' this pub or that end - when in reality it was usually handbags and a nice little choreographed chant and run routine.

Talk about confused. I don't think there is one person on this thread that doesn't think Saints could increase attendances if successful. But don't let that get in the way of having a bitter, frustrated rant.

[Turkish]

Nutshell. There are many things the club can do to increase average attendance very quickly to c34-38,000 if Saints are only moderately successful. Higher than that might be possible over time. Im not sure why some even try to dispute it given its been done before. The average attendance in the early 1980s was around 18,000 in a 24,000 capacity Dell but had nearly doubled to 30,000 by 2003.

 

Maybe its because much of the additional support may come from corporates, women, kids, middle classes that there is so much opposition and finger in the ear stuff. I suspect a lot of it is to do with macho posturing by a few aging, going to seed ****s who like to misremember how football used to be a working mans game and they regularly 'took' this pub or that end - when in reality it was usually handbags and a nice little choreographed chant and run routine.

 

No it isn't. Its because no one has come up with any compelling or convincing evidence that firsly we need a bigger ground and secondly that we can fill an extra 12,000 seats without reducing the price. Even your magnificent idea of starting prices at £50 and then reducing them and reducing them until they did sell still involved one imporant factor, reducing the price. I still cant see why an sensible CEO would spend £20m on expanding a stadium and then slash the prices to fill the seats, which however anyone dresses it up, flexible and dynamic pricing are going to do just that.

[Bearsy]

oh forget it

[buctootim]

oh forget it

 

Dunno. I think a lot of it is enjoying a cyber ruck in the close season. Its much less uncomfortable and inconvenient than the real thing for those well past their early 20s.

[buctootim]

No it isn't. Its because no one has come up with any compelling or convincing evidence that firsly we need a bigger ground and secondly that we can fill an extra 12,000 seats without reducing the price. Even your magnificent idea of starting prices at £50 and then reducing them and reducing them until they did sell still involved one imporant factor, reducing the price. I still cant see why an sensible CEO would spend £20m on expanding a stadium and then slash the prices to fill the seats, which however anyone dresses it up, flexible and dynamic pricing are going to do just that.

 

Ive never said we need a bigger stadium - I dont think we do if you apply simple economics of how to make most money this season and next. If however you want to grow the club you MIGHT build a larger stadium knowing you might have to take a reduced average ticket price in the early years. Since the club clearly is considering expanding SMS I dont see anything wrong with discussing how that might be made to work.

 

One thing dynamic pricing does do is help you fill the stadium (ignoring yield for the moment). I can actually see that as a being a very attractive feature for PL who are marketing themselves to a global tv audience as the most successful desirable league in the world. That image is harder to sell if some of your member clubs are showing up on tv in China / Middle east etc playing in to 20,000 people in 60% full grounds.

[Turkish]

Ive never said we need a bigger stadium - I dont think we do if you apply simple economics of how to make most money this season and next. If however you want to grow the club you MIGHT build a larger stadium knowing you might have to take a reduced average ticket price in the early years. Since the club clearly is considering expanding SMS I dont see anything wrong with discussing how that might be made to work.

 

One thing dynamic pricing does do is help you fill the stadium (ignoring yield for the moment). I can actually see that as a being a very attractive feature for PL who are marketing themselves to a global tv audience as the most successful desirable league in the world. That image is harder to sell if some of your member clubs are showing up on tv in China / Middle east etc playing in to 20,000 people in 60% full grounds.

 

Be honest, did you read back your idea for dynamic pricing and realise how stupid it sounds?

[buctootim]

Be honest, did you read back your idea for dynamic pricing and realise how stupid it sounds?

 

Tbh its the fingers in the ears stuff, refusal to consider that things can change which I find stupid. There is also a huge difference between what I personally think is a good thing and what I think is likely to happen.

 

The St Louis Cardinals and San Francisco Giants are two major league baseball teams. They get around 40,000 people per game - directly comparable to the PL clubs. They are trialling dynamic pricing and it seems to be working for them. If it does work (ie increases revenue) then comparable clubs around the world will be seriously considering it. On balance I think its more likely than not to be common in the prem within 10 years.

 

Read the articles or google it. You dont have to believe a random on a message board - big clubs are doing it now and serious publications are discussing it. Attempting to take the **** out of me me for raising it as a live issue (not saying you are specifically) simply makes the poster look dim and uninformed, not me.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2012/01/06/dynamic-pricing-the-future-of-ticket-pricing-in-sports/

http://www.thebusinessofsports.com/2011/10/25/recap-of-mlb-dynamic-pricing-in-2011/

http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clar...riety-c/nGGR3/

Edited 22 June, 2012 by buctootim

[Turkish]

Tbh its the fingers in the ears stuff, refusal to consider that things can change which I find stupid. There is also a huge difference between what I personally think is a good thing and what I think is likely to happen.

 

The St Louis Cardinals and San Francisco Giants are two major league baseball teams. They get around 40,000 people per game - directly comparable to the PL clubs. They are trialling dynamic pricing and it seems to be working for them. If it works out for them (ie increases revenue) then comparable clubs around the world will be seriously considering it. On balance I think its likely to be common in the prem within 10 years.

 

Read the articles or google it. You dont have to believe a random on a message board - big clubs are doing it now and serious publications are discussing it. Attempting to take the **** out of me me for raising it as a live issue (not saying you individually are specifically) simply makes the poster look dim and uninformed, not me.

 

So say we sell tickets for Man United at £50 in our new 45,000 seater stadium. We sell 10,000 tickets at that price. So we reduce them to £40 we sell another 15,000 at that price then we reduce them to £30 and sell a few more. On the day of the game there are 2,000 left that we knock out at £15 each to get bums on seats.

 

a few questions

1/ How do you p*ssed off do you think the fans will be that paid the higher price for the same tickets?

2/ What is to stop fans getting used to this and just not buying tickets at the inflated price and waiting until they drop? Leading to chaos at the ticket office with everyone waiting until the final week price drops before buying their seats.

3/ What is the benefit of having a season ticket when fans that decide at the last minute to go can buy tickets at fraction of the price you pay pro rata.

4/ Why hasn't Cortese used "dynamic pricing" to fill the average 8,000 seats we have left every week last season. He doesn't seem like the sort of guy who is in the habit of selling things off cheap.

 

I appreciate dynamic pricing works the other way as well and pricing could go up, but do you really think you're going to have many takers paying £40-50 to watch Saints v Norwich or West Brom?

[buctootim]

So say we sell tickets for Man United at £50 in our new 45,000 seater stadium. We sell 10,000 tickets at that price. So we reduce them to £40 we sell another 15,000 at that price then we reduce them to £30 and sell a few more. On the day of the game there are 2,000 left that we knock out at £15 each to get bums on seats.

 

a few questions

1/ How do you p*ssed off do you think the fans will be that paid the higher price for the same tickets?

2/ What is to stop fans getting used to this and just not buying tickets at the inflated price and waiting until they drop? Leading to chaos at the ticket office with everyone waiting until the final week price drops before buying their seats.

3/ What is the benefit of having a season ticket when fans that decide at the last minute to go can buy tickets at fraction of the price you pay pro rata.

4/ Why hasn't Cortese used "dynamic pricing" to fill the average 8,000 seats we have left every week last season. He doesn't seem like the sort of guy who is in the habit of selling things off cheap.

 

I appreciate dynamic pricing works the other way as well and pricing could go up, but do you really think you're going to have many takers paying £40-50 to watch Saints v Norwich or West Brom?

 

It all depends on what the intial price of a ticket is set at. If the club were routinely seeing ticket prices reduce the near to the game it got it would clearly have a problem because that would **** fans off and deter early purchase - the opposite of what they want.

 

1. Fans would be ****ed off if they routinely lost out. If sometimes they got cheap tickets and sometimes paid over the odds things would average out. People already accept it for flights and hotels.

2. What you are saying is the opposite of a successful dynamic pricing model. Mostly early purchases equals cheaper tickets.

3. Im not exactly sure how the baseball clubs cover that - it appears to be some kind of guarantee that they wouldnt lose out over the season.

4. Because its a new idea and FL rules on revenue sharing wouldnt currently allow it. I'll bet you some clubs are looking at the experiment closely though.

[Turkish]

It all depends on what the intial price of a ticket is set at. If the club were routinely seeing ticket prices reduce the near to the game it got it would clearly have a problem because that would **** fans off and deter early purchase - the opposite of what they want.

 

1. Fans would be ****ed off if they routinely lost out. If sometimes they got cheap tickets and sometimes paid over the odds things would average out. People already accept it for flights and hotels.

2. What you are saying is the opposite of a successful dynamic pricing model. Mostly early purchases equals cheaper tickets.

3. Im not exactly sure how the baseball clubs cover that - it appears to be some kind of guarantee that they wouldnt lose out over the season.

4. Because its a new idea and FL rules on revenue sharing wouldnt currently allow it. I'll bet you some clubs are looking at the experiment closely though.

 

But you said start prices for Man U at £50 and then reduce them if they couldn't sell. Then reduce them again and again.

Norwich you were on about starting low and putting up. Again, i cant see people being too chuffed sitting next to someone who had paid £20 for a ticket when theyve paid £40, in fact i cant see too many people paying £40+ to see Saints v Norwich.

West Ham were doing groupon deals last season, doing deals isn't new, it just seems Cortese isn't keen to slash prices. What makes you think that is going to change?

[buctootim]

But you said start prices for Man U at £50 and then reduce them if they couldn't sell. Then reduce them again and again.

Norwich you were on about starting low and putting up. Again, i cant see people being too chuffed sitting next to someone who had paid £20 for a ticket when theyve paid £40, in fact i cant see too many people paying £40+ to see Saints v Norwich.

West Ham were doing groupon deals last season, doing deals isn't new, it just seems Cortese isn't keen to slash prices. What makes you think that is going to change?

 

Aah you've gone back to to trolling, pity. The info is out there. Read it or not, its up to you.

[saint si]

Some background reading material...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_equilibrium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_surplus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

 

Also bear in mind that each person that comes through the gate not only contributes to gate receipts but also...

- contributes to food and drink sales

- and merchandise

- and programmes

- and can be advertised to

- and (much less tangibly) improves the atmosphere, thereby assisting the team and the brand

 

Furthermore, there is an argument that football possesses addictive qualities, and with very strong brand loyalty. Once a fan, always a fan etc. Getting people through the door therefore is the first barrier to repeat business, merchandise sales etc.

 

The airline model is highly applicable because:

- demand is limited

- goods are perishable

- fixed costs are very high

- marginal cost (i.e. per seat, up to capacity) is very low

 

There is a strong case that a full stadium is always the optimum result.

 

But Cortese is smart enough to know all this. Why hasn't he adopted a flexible pricing approach before? Probably because the rules don't allow him to. But I would be gob-smacked if it wasn't on his list of things to look at, and as a PL chairman he now has more influence than most.

[Turkish]

Aah you've gone back to to trolling, pity. The info is out there. Read it or not, its up to you.

 

Sounds like a get out to me. Typical response, cant think of an answer so accuse of trolling.

[Turkish]

Some background reading material...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_equilibrium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_surplus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

 

Also bear in mind that each person that comes through the gate not only contributes to gate receipts but also...

- contributes to food and drink sales

- and merchandise

- and programmes

- and can be advertised to

- and (much less tangibly) improves the atmosphere, thereby assisting the team and the brand

 

Furthermore, there is an argument that football possesses addictive qualities, and with very strong brand loyalty. Once a fan, always a fan etc. Getting people through the door therefore is the first barrier to repeat business, merchandise sales etc.

 

The airline model is highly applicable because:

- demand is limited

- goods are perishable

- fixed costs are very high

- marginal cost (i.e. per seat, up to capacity) is very low

 

There is a strong case that a full stadium is always the optimum result.

 

But Cortese is smart enough to know all this. Why hasn't he adopted a flexible pricing approach before? Probably because the rules don't allow him to. But I would be gob-smacked if it wasn't on his list of things to look at, and as a PL chairman he now has more influence than most.

 

Which goes against what people have been saying about people in Portsmouth and other areas switching teams and becoming Saints fans.

 

And back to it again. West Ham did groupon deals last season, so rules did allow him too, he chose not to. Why is that going to change?

[buctootim]

Sounds like a get out to me. Typical response, cant think of an answer so accuse of trolling.

 

Nope. Taking a hypothetical example I gave three pages ago, presenting that as my views, ignoring all the context and additional info given subsequently, and asking faux naive questions - thats trolling. A particularly pointless form of it as well. Ffs man, you're in your late 30's still trying to play to the imaginary gallery. Its embarassing.

[Turkish]

Nope. Taking a hypothetical example I gave three pages ago, presenting that as my views, ignoring all the context and additional info given subsequently, and asking faux naive questions - thats trolling. A particularly pointless form of it as well. Ffs man, you're in your late 30's still trying to play to the imaginary gallery. Its embarassing.

 

Im not in my late 30s Timothy......

 

I've asked some valid questions applying the dynamic pricing policy you used, your example. It seems you're struggling to back up your claims and also why Cotese has thus far refused to do "deals". I'm not surprised you cant answer them, it's no slight on you, i'd struggle to justify how it could work if it was my suggestion.

[Golden Balls]

Which goes against what people have been saying about people in Portsmouth and other areas switching teams and becoming Saints fans.

 

 

Nobody said Portsmouth fans would become Southampton fans. And if they did, they're stupid. They wont.

 

I think the point was casual football fans from Portsmouth or living down that way would fall into the catchment area, and be tempted to come to SMS for PL football. That will natually happen.

 

Not everyone in Portsmouth supports pomp*y, despite what the best fans in the world™ will tell you

[Depressed of Shirley]

Im not in my late 30s Timothy......

 

I've asked some valid questions applying the dynamic pricing policy you used, your example. It seems you're struggling to back up your claims and also why Cotese has thus far refused to do "deals". I'm not surprised you cant answer them, it's no slight on you, i'd struggle to justify how it could work if it was my suggestion.

 

The debate on flexible pricing will be a little clearer at the end of this season, because Derby County are trying it. It sounds like it shouldn't work for football, but we will see.

[Thedelldays]

Im not in my late 30s Timothy......

 

I've asked some valid questions applying the dynamic pricing policy you used, your example. It seems you're struggling to back up your claims and also why Cotese has thus far refused to do "deals". I'm not surprised you cant answer them, it's no slight on you, i'd struggle to justify how it could work if it was my suggestion.

[Thedelldays]

we would have had a chance of attracting some from the PO postcode if the two cities were not great rivals....if pompey were what reading fans are like...they would be all plastic and join us...but they are not..and they are skate bastards

[Golden Balls]

we would have had a chance of attracting some from the PO postcode if the two cities were not great rivals....if pompey were what reading fans are like...they would be all plastic and join us...but they are not..and they are skate bastards

 

So everyone from Portsmouth supports Portsmouth and everyone from Southampton supports Southampton?

 

We have no chance of attracting current pompey fans. No one is saying that. However there are general football fans, PL fans, unloyal kids and people who are not born and bred pomp*y. So yes, there is a chance of attracting support from a PO post code. Not 1000s, but some. Especially those towns between the 2 cities

[The Kraken]

So everyone from Portsmouth supports Portsmouth and everyone from Southampton supports Southampton?

 

We have no chance of attracting current pompey fans. No one is saying that. However there are general football fans, PL fans, unloyal kids and people who are not born and bred pomp*y. So yes, there is a chance of attracting support from a PO post code. Not 1000s, but some. Especially those towns between the 2 cities

 

Let's be realistic. Places like Fareham, Locks Heath etc are obvious candidates for new fans who could go either way with their support.

 

Expecting to steal all but a handful of fans from those within the city is an extreme hope. Pompey are in the same division we were just 2 short years ago, its not as if they've disappeared entirely.

 

There's a small element of merit in some of the "catchment area" talk on here; there's also far too much pointless rhetoric. Our appeal as a club will grow as we gain more success in the top league, of course it will. But lets at least have some perspective; any fans we actually attract from the other end of the M27 will be negligible in the general scheme of things; especially in comparison with the fact that we already have 180,000 customers on the club database.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Turkish

 

Im not in my late 30s Timothy......

 

I've asked some valid questions applying the dynamic pricing policy you used, your example. It seems you're struggling to back up your claims and also why Cotese has thus far refused to do "deals". I'm not surprised you cant answer them, it's no slight on you, i'd struggle to justify how it could work if it was my suggestion.

 

The debate on flexible pricing will be a little clearer at the end of this season, because Derby County are trying it. It sounds like it shouldn't work for football, but we will see.

 

Why? We are already considering a bigger stadium so for the next few years it will be maximise the revenue from those seats. If anything I am not sure the club will be so generous with the cheap seats in future. Arsenal look the model to follow where a full stadium results in high ticket prices. It would not surprise me that Arsenal ticket revenue equalled ManU, who have an extra 18000 seats available.

 

Derby have been selling their seats on the cheap now for a while, but it's really academic when you have no idea at what price you could max out. It's very easy to cut prices and get market share, it's another matter trying to get those prices up and maintain full stadiums. You need something special on the pitch to generate that effect.

[Turkish]

So everyone from Portsmouth supports Portsmouth and everyone from Southampton supports Southampton?

 

We have no chance of attracting current pompey fans. No one is saying that. However there are general football fans, PL fans, unloyal kids and people who are not born and bred pomp*y. So yes, there is a chance of attracting support from a PO post code. Not 1000s, but some. Especially those towns between the 2 cities

 

So not thousands, hundreds at a push, possibly tens. So that's about 50 of the new seats covered only 11,950 to fill.

[SFC Forever]

Forgetting all of the above there is one aspect that seems to have been overlooked. A larger capacity will mean a larger number of possible away supporters spending their hard earned as well. Clubs are entitled to a % of whatever the gate capacity is so they would be ble to sell more tickets as well.

[The Kraken]

Forgetting all of the above there is one aspect that seems to have been overlooked. A larger capacity will mean a larger number of possible away supporters spending their hard earned as well. Clubs are entitled to a % of whatever the gate capacity is so they would be ble to sell more tickets as well.

 

No it won't, unless we choose to make a special exception. Premier League rules dictate home clubs must give 10% of the attendance or 3,000 tickets to the away side, whichever is lower. Saints figure has typically been 3,200. There is no rule for us to go above that, unless we choose to.

[Golden Balls]

So not thousands, hundreds at a push, possibly tens. So that's about 50 of the new seats covered only 11,950 to fill.

 

I'm not talking about filling a bigger stadium. My point was catchment area. Portsmouth still counts. Yes we'd get a smaller ratio from there but it's not to be discounted. Especially the towns inbetween. I could quite easily see a train load coming from the east if we remain PL and they remain where they are. I know plenty of people from Southampton who went to watch pompey in the PL. They weren't Saints or pompey fans. Just crappy PL fans. believe me, theres loads of them.

 

I also know 2 people who were born in, schooled in and lived in Southampton their whole lives. They are both Pompey fans. They both went along to Fratton before they were really 'into' football just to see the PL. They are now hardcore pompey fans. I doubt they are the only 2.

 

Like someone said, hardcores will come no matter what, we need to grab and hook the rest.

 

And remember, not everyone that lives in Portsmouth is from portsmouth. They wont be loyal to pompey. When I lived in Plymouth, I went to see Torquay play just becuase it was football close by.

[up and away]

Let's be realistic. Places like Fareham, Locks Heath etc are obvious candidates for new fans who could go either way with their support.

 

Expecting to steal all but a handful of fans from those within the city is an extreme hope. Pompey are in the same division we were just 2 short years ago, its not as if they've disappeared entirely.

 

There's a small element of merit in some of the "catchment area" talk on here; there's also far too much pointless rhetoric. Our appeal as a club will grow as we gain more success in the top league, of course it will. But lets at least have some perspective; any fans we actually attract from the other end of the M27 will be negligible in the general scheme of things; especially in comparison with the fact that we already have 180,000 customers on the club database.

 

The closer you are to London or the midlands, the less the pick up you will get from your catchment area. Speak to any Reading fan and they will readily quote the London clubs as the biggest reason their support is so low from that concentration of population. Our biggest extended catchment area comes from Dorset, IOW and the West country, because Southampton is in the way of getting to all those other Premier clubs. One of the biggest effects for getting new faces to Saints has been the Saints in the community program. If that were to be extended to schools in these fertile catchment areas, I can easily see kids dragging a parent or two along to a game they never would have usually attended.

 

I have always believed we have a very good catchment area, but heavily biased towards the west and south. As you go further up the M3 you are competing with 6 other Premier clubs, plus the championship London clubs. Diminishing returns for every mile up the M3.

[Sour Mash]

I'm not talking about filling a bigger stadium. My point was catchment area. Portsmouth still counts. Yes we'd get a smaller ratio from there but it's not to be discounted. Especially the towns inbetween. I could quite easily see a train load coming from the east if we remain PL and they remain where they are. I know plenty of people from Southampton who went to watch pompey in the PL. They weren't Saints or pompey fans. Just crappy PL fans. believe me, theres loads of them.

 

I also know 2 people who were born in, schooled in and lived in Southampton their whole lives. They are both Pompey fans. They both went along to Fratton before they were really 'into' football just to see the PL. They are now hardcore pompey fans. I doubt they are the only 2.

 

Like someone said, hardcores will come no matter what, we need to grab and hook the rest.

 

And remember, not everyone that lives in Portsmouth is from portsmouth. They wont be loyal to pompey. When I lived in Plymouth, I went to see Torquay play just becuase it was football close by.

Absolute made up rubbish.

 

And why must we "grab and hook the rest"?