The Euro

[Thedelldays]

Now. Let's be honest... It is a croc of Shyte

 

Would Europe be in such a state is we still had the peseta. The franc, the mark etc etc?????

[alpine_saint]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

[Petersfield Saint]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

 

This, sadly

[scotty]

Now. Let's be honest... It is a croc of Shyte

 

Would Europe be in such a state is we still had the peseta. The franc, the mark etc etc?????

 

I suspect we will shortly have the peseta once more. And the drachma. And Lira... plus, sterling is still alive and kicking!!

[sussexsaint]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

 

This 100%

[Doctoroncall]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

 

yep, half way measures dont work.

[Saintandy666]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

 

Even I would go with this. They ignored their own rules.

[jawillwill]

Now. Let's be honest... It is a croc of Shyte

 

Would Europe be in such a state is we still had the peseta. The franc, the mark etc etc?????

 

I've been quite enjoying it so far to be honest. I don't think Franc Lampard could have made the tournament anymore interesting that it already has been. Mark Lawrenson is still around though on the BBC. You might have missed him if you've been watching ITV.

[trousers]

[video=youtube_share;TN_1mF-3JTI]

[dune]

Even I would go with this. They ignored their own rules.

 

You being a completely clueless Lib Dem.

[dune]

[video=youtube_share;TN_1mF-3JTI]

 

There aren't so many wet continentals laughing at him now. From once being ridiculed by the liberal elite as cranks, the UKIP has been shown to have right all along. What does this make the Liberal sorts?

[hypochondriac]

You being a completely clueless Lib Dem.

 

Tbf though it is true that they blindly signed up to it without considering what it truly meant.

[dune]

Tbf though it is true that they blindly signed up to it without considering what it truly meant.

 

That is because Lib Dems are very very very thick.

[Whitey Grandad]

The Euro works well for me. I can sell to different countries and I can get the same money out from cash machines all over europe. I can also buy in most countries and not pay conversion fees on my french bank card.

[hypochondriac]

That is because Lib Dems are very very very thick.

 

I was referring to European leaders who joined the euro though I do vehemently disagree with the lib dem stance.

[Thedelldays]

Farage has been right all along.....ALL ALONG

[Whitey Grandad]

Farage has been right all along.....ALL ALONG

Didn't actually say much, did he?

[trousers]

Didn't actually say much, did he?

 

He probably doesn't need to TBF

[Saintandy666]

That is because Lib Dems are very very very thick.

 

That's very simplistic Dune, as always. The Lib Dems like many on here maintained it was a very good idea in principle and they naively assumed that the rules would be kept to. However, the rules were not kept too and so it is lucky we didn't join at the time. Thank you Gordon Brown. It is still a good idea in principle and maybe one day after this crisis it will be done properly. Europe needs to work more together in order to combat the rising challenge of the east. I still maintain as I have said in earlier threads that a lot of the problem isn't necessarily based on the Euro, it is worldwide and bank-based, but also on individual countries who were happy to lend to countries like Greece amounts they clearly couldn't afford.

[Saintandy666]

Farage has been right all along.....ALL ALONG

 

I dunno, I think Farage disagreed that it takes away currency independence from country and centralises power in Europe. I'm not aware he ever argued vehemently re: financial arguments. However, as in many European countries, at the time of adopting the Euro it was a popular idea, the arguments he deployed weren't relevant over there even if they were relevant here as obviously prevailing opinion at the time was in favour of the Pound.

 

However, William Hague if I recall correctly ran an election campaign on a promise of staying in the pound and he got stuffed so it can't have been a massive priority for people. I don't think normal people care much about currency beyond whether they can use it to feed their families and live a reasonable standard of living.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It was a noble, romantic idea, but political will just completely disregarded the practicalities.

 

It was not a "noble" idea at all.

 

It was all part of "the project", and the outcome of "the project" is a federal Europe.

[Lord Duckhunter]

That's very simplistic Dune, as always. The Lib Dems like many on here maintained it was a very good idea in principle and they naively assumed that the rules would be kept to. However, the rules were not kept too and so it is lucky we didn't join at the time. Thank you Gordon Brown. It is still a good idea in principle and maybe one day after this crisis it will be done properly. Europe needs to work more together in order to combat the rising challenge of the east. I still maintain as I have said in earlier threads that a lot of the problem isn't necessarily based on the Euro, it is worldwide and bank-based, but also on individual countries who were happy to lend to countries like Greece amounts they clearly couldn't afford.

 

What a load of pony......

 

It is not a "good idea". You can not have monetry union without fiscal union, that is the plain and simple arguement that Farage and others have always held.

 

What on earth are you thanking Gordon Brown for? He was for the Euro, he just wouldn't bend the rules for our entry, an entry that he wanted in principle (not that he would have got in past the British people). Thanking someone for not breaking the rules, is like thanking a hoodie for not mugging you.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

However, William Hague if I recall correctly ran an election campaign on a promise of staying in the pound and he got stuffed so it can't have been a massive priority for people. I don't think normal people care much about currency beyond whether they can use it to feed their families and live a reasonable standard of living.

 

Only because Labour promised us a vote. Had the Labour manifesto committed us to the Euro with no vote, Hague would have won a landslide. By promising a vote, the issue went away.

[BigShadow]

It was not a "noble" idea at all.

 

It was all part of "the project", and the outcome of "the project" is a federal Europe.

 

This..100%. They knew that a federal Europe would not get through the electorate....so in typical Eurocrat sneaky fashion, they tried the backdoor route - The Euro was a means to an end - they expected it to run into difficulties, but they assumed imminent Euro failure would convince the electorate that a federal Europe was the best solution and hence their goal would be achieved. However, they did not expect the Euro to run into the massive difficulties they now face.

 

Quite frankly, it is beyond belief that they have any credibility left at all. The years are passing by and still they insist on putting Band Aids on gaping wounds. Short term fixes with no long term strategy to solve the crisis. The Euro is effectively dead, just waiting for someone to unplug the life support.

[dune]

What a load of pony......

 

It is not a "good idea". You can not have monetry union without fiscal union, that is the plain and simple arguement that Farage and others have always held.

 

What on earth are you thanking Gordon Brown for? He was for the Euro, he just wouldn't bend the rules for our entry, an entry that he wanted in principle (not that he would have got in past the British people). Thanking someone for not breaking the rules, is like thanking a hoodie for not mugging you.

 

You can't have fiscal union without political union, and to achieve political union you need dominance from a centralised base along the lines of all empires throughout history. Andy666 for all his enthusiasm is very naive to the practicalities and what they really mean. Andy is essentially supporting Imperialism, which in this instance is the creation of the 4th Reich via the back door. This is completely at odds with localism and institutions such as the welsh assembly and scottish parliament.

Edited 15 June, 2012 by dune

[trousers]

Thank you Gordon Brown

 

[Verbal]

You can't have fiscal union without political union, and to achieve political union you need dominance from a centralised base along the lines of all empires throughout history. Andy666 for all his enthusiasm is very naive to the practicalities and what they really mean. Andy is essentially supporting Imperialism, which in this instance is the creation of the 4th Reich via the back door. This is completely at odds with localism and institutions such as the welsh assembly and scottish parliament.

 

You've never heard of the United States then.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You've never heard of the United States then.

 

Exactly.

 

This is what the "project" is. A United States of Europe.

[Verbal]

Exactly.

 

This is what the "project" is. A United States of Europe.

 

My point being, Ducky, that the US is riven by the same kinds of tensions as the EU. ''States' Rights" has been a hot-button legal issue since the American Civil War, and states in the South especially still fiercely guard their distance from the Federal government.

[Saintandy666]

You can't have fiscal union without political union, and to achieve political union you need dominance from a centralised base along the lines of all empires throughout history. Andy666 for all his enthusiasm is very naive to the practicalities and what they really mean. Andy is essentially supporting Imperialism, which in this instance is the creation of the 4th Reich via the back door. This is completely at odds with localism and institutions such as the welsh assembly and scottish parliament.

 

I do not support imperialism. That is what you seem to support half the time though with your fawning over 'the Empire'. I do not support any further integration without a referendum and I fully support an in out referendum. Everything must be done at the will of the people at all times.

[hypochondriac]

I do not support imperialism. That is what you seem to support half the time though with your fawning over 'the Empire'. I do not support any further integration without a referendum and I fully support an in out referendum. Everything must be done at the will of the people at all times.

 

What is your thoughts on the closer political union we have seen since the vote on the common market? I consider it a disgrace.

[Saintandy666]

What is your thoughts on the closer political union we have seen since the vote on the common market? I consider it a disgrace.

 

I don't oppose the EU in its current form. It's not perfect, but nothing is, especially an institution of that size. I think now is the time for an in/out vote(in a few years time - say once the immediate crisis is over - say 2016) just to settle the argument.

[Lord Duckhunter]

My point being, Ducky, that the US is riven by the same kinds of tensions as the EU. ''States' Rights" has been a hot-button legal issue since the American Civil War, and states in the South especially still fiercely guard their distance from the Federal government.

 

Nonsense, there is a huge difference between States in the Union wanting to "guard their distance" and sovereign Countries forcing their peoples into a Federal Europe by the back door.

 

If you think the tensions between the Greeks and the EU are the same as between the federal Government and Mississippi you are wrong.

 

The people in Mississippi had a vote in their presidental elections, the Greeks did not, yet appear to have ended up with Angela Merkel running their finances.

 

Last time I looked USA was one Country and the EZ was 17 Countries.

[hypochondriac]

I don't oppose the EU in its current form. It's not perfect, but nothing is, especially an institution of that size. I think now is the time for an in/out vote(in a few years time - say once the immediate crisis is over - say 2016) just to settle the argument.

 

I didn't ask you that. How would you feel if you had been alive to vote to stay in the common market and then saw that vote used by politicians as a green light to do what they liked in the last thirty years? It isn't right that we have got to the situation that we have without any consultation.

[Verbal]

Nonsense, there is a huge difference between States in the Union wanting to "guard their distance" and sovereign Countries forcing their peoples into a Federal Europe by the back door.

 

If you think the tensions between the Greeks and the EU are the same as between the federal Government and Mississippi you are wrong.

 

The people in Mississippi had a vote in their presidental elections, the Greeks did not, yet appear to have ended up with Angela Merkel running their finances.

 

Last time I looked USA was one Country and the EZ was 17 Countries.

 

You're drifting as ever off the point. Read Dune's original little gem - my response was to that: the idea that you can't have fiscal union without political union, and that means 'dominance from a centralised base'. The US has fiscal union with constitutional checks and balances between federal and state governments, and there are constant tensions between the two (hence the immigration controversy, to give a present-day example). The whole Tea Party movement is about states' rights over the feds.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I didn't ask you that. How would you feel if you had been alive to vote to stay in the common market and then saw that vote used by politicians as a green light to do what they liked in the last thirty years? It isn't right that we have got to the situation that we have without any consultation.

 

Not only that, but we were specifically told that it would not happen. It was a Trading bloc, nothing more nothing less, that's what we were told. Grocer Heath lied to us, and the establishment have been lieing ever since.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm all for it. The more I travel in Europe the more I like what I see. Too many little englanders over here.