Car hire company woes

[pap]

Got a nice letter from a car hire company telling me that they'd charged the "pap exchequer" £827 for damage on a car I recently rented. I know for a fact that there was nothing wrong with it - I always clean the car out on the final day of the journey as the buggers have charged me for "valeting" in the past. Not a scratch on the thing.

 

Obviously, I'd like to dispute it - but not sure what my options are. Did what I normally do - just passed the keys to a member of staff on the way out - so I didn't go over the car and verify stuff with the airport staff.

 

Genuinely feel like I've been diddled here and am planning on calling them in the morning. Has anyone been involved in this sort of dispute before? What's the best way of contesting it?

[Katalinic]

Generally it you keep contesting it they will give up.

[View From The Top]

I collected a hire car (Gold via Carhire3000) in Barca last Saturday evening, it was getting dark and when I went an inspected it.

 

It had been keyed down one side, had scrapes on the nearside etc. Labelled it all on the sheet, wrote on it that it had been inspected at night and when I took it back I made them re-inspect it and do all the paperwork when I was there. Had to pay £120 for a new tyre as I'd ****ed a rock on the AP17 and split the sidewall so that was fair enough.

 

Brought all the completed paperwork back with me just in case.

[sotonjoe]

Isn't the usual drill that the company check the car with you present and sign to say it's ok? If you don't have their confirmation that it's ok before you depart, then I'd have thought it would be very difficult to prove that there wasn't any damage on the car.

[pap]

Isn't the usual drill that the company check the car with you present and sign to say it's ok? If you don't have their confirmation that it's ok before you depart, then I'd have thought it would be very difficult to prove that there wasn't any damage on the car.

 

At the same time, the only proof I have that the car is damaged is their letter, handily dated 1st June and giving me 10 working days to respond. Arrived yesterday and their offices are closed until tomorrow.

 

Going to ask them to justify their claim - not really prepared to lose £827 on the basis of a letter alone. Hired the car in NI, so inspecting it myself is not practical.

[Whitey Grandad]

I always take multiple photos before and after, just in case. Good luck, and just keep going until they give up. You could always try the Sunday papers, they love this sort of thing.

[dronskisaint]

I always take the full CDW at the outset now after a similar experience in the Canaries years ago...like you it was impractical to return to check but I kept on disputing it and involved the holiday company and eventually they gave up.

 

It took the edge of a good holiday though hence paying the extra few quid up front now...in theory I can bring it back in a few carrier bags and they can't charge me further.

[Micky]

I hire cars every month for business trips, have been doing for the past 10 years or so, usually on the continent, mainly Germany and Holland, and usually from that well known supplier VISA (or something like that...!). A couple of years ago, we (our company) did have a spate of claims from the company on cars that we had left at a certain airport, early in the morning when there was no rep there to check them, or if there was - no damage was noted at the time.

 

One of the claims was made about a car that I returned - saying that it had damage to a door. I phone the hire company at the airport asking them to explain the alleged damage. They said that it looked like somebody had opened a door onto the hire car door - but that I was still liable...! I told them that I wanted proof of the damage and they sent me a photograph of a door with what looked like very minimal damage to the car. (I couldn't even tell if it was the car that I hired).

 

I told them that as the car was parked in their 'drop off' car park the damage could have been caused after my contract with them had expired - not only that but notification of the damage was made days after I returned the car. How was I to know what had happened to the car during that time - anybody could have driven it.

 

Basically as a result, this was taken up by the company finance officer, we have an account with the car hire co. Give the arguments - they waived all of the claims.

 

Personally I think that the hire company was scamming customers - just my belief, but there you go.

 

Ask for photographic proof of the damage. How long after you returned the car did it take for them to notify you of the damage. How the hell are they able to take over £800 from you without any notification whatsoever...? If the airport staff were willing to take the car as seen, and no extra costs were discussed and no damage found - then they have not right whatsover to now claim. As a matter of interest, what airport was it?

[pap]

Ask for photographic proof of the damage. How long after you returned the car did it take for them to notify you of the damage. How the hell are they able to take over £800 from you without any notification whatsoever...? If the airport staff were willing to take the car as seen, and no extra costs were discussed and no damage found - then they have not right whatsover to now claim. As a matter of interest, what airport was it?

 

The missus made an interesting point. The letter is dated 1st June, the day that I left the car there. Actually left it there quite late ( around 16:40 ), and it was a Friday so a lot of people were returning cars. Anyway, in the few short hours that were left on that day, they were apparently able to determine the damage, the extent of it and charge my card. £800 happens to be the amount of the excess. So they're either super-efficient or trying one on. They didn't notify me about the damage via phone - I was actually stuck at the airport until 9pm.

 

Plus there is the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, nothing was wrong with the car. Going to be an interesting phone call tomorrow.

 

Belfast International is the airport.

[dune]

http://www.insurance4carhire.com/index.asp?subrefID=&curID=1&langID=1&refID=100

 

You're a mug if you don't have it. This is who I use and if you ring them up and quote a rival price (do a few searches) of 39.99 they will do annual cover for 37 quid.

 

This reminds me I must ring up avis and find out how much credit i'll need on my credit card. Thought it was 800 quid MAX...

[Verbal]

This is one of those classic 'the US does it so much better' cases. Hiring cars in the UK is a NIGHTMARE - the rental companies are constantly in search of ways to sting you if you're in the slightest way oblivious of any pre-existing damage. So much so that it seems to me to be organised fraud. In the US, by contrast, renting cars is easy, cheap and a real pleasure.

[View From The Top]

http://www.insurance4carhire.com/index.asp?subrefID=&curID=1&langID=1&refID=100

 

You're a mug if you don't have it. This is who I use and if you ring them up and quote a rival price (do a few searches) of 39.99 they will do annual cover for 37 quid.

 

This reminds me I must ring up avis and find out how much credit i'll need on my credit card. Thought it was 800 quid MAX...

 

That's a good price.

[dune]

That's a good price.

 

Just quote the "price promise" offer on the website.

[View From The Top]

This is one of those classic 'the US does it so much better' cases. Hiring cars in the UK is a NIGHTMARE - the rental companies are constantly in search of ways to sting you if you're in the slightest way oblivious of any pre-existing damage. So much so that it seems to me to be organised fraud. In the US, by contrast, renting cars is easy, cheap and a real pleasure.

 

I find that if I'm flying into a "business" airport anywhere in Europe then the hire stuff is simple but when it's a "leisure" airport it's a 'mare!

[dune]

I always go for the cheapest option (with aircon) and have twice been upgraded. The last time I got a 6 speed seat ibiza which was a great car. It had a big dent in the door when I picked it up but they made me aware and circled it on the documentation. I find that AVIS are far cheaper than these small internet brokers for many destinations because they charge low and then try to wallop you at the airport for extra cover. If you have the yearly insurance you just decline the extra cover.

[View From The Top]

I always go for the cheapest option (with aircon) and have twice been upgraded. The last time I got a 6 speed seat ibiza which was a great car. It had a big dent in the door when I picked it up but they made me aware and circled it on the documentation. I find that AVIS are far cheaper than these small internet brokers for many destinations because they charge low and then try to wallop you at the airport for extra cover. If you have the yearly insurance you just decline the extra cover.

 

When travelling to Italy I also go for the cheapest option as I'm usually by myself. I've had everything from a Smart Car to a VW Golf TDI & top spec'd Alfa

 

Alas when travelling on a short break with the tribe I know I have to book an estate or bigger and going via Car Hire 3000 or similar makes that much more affordable, but you run more risks with the companies that they use.

 

Usually we just take our own people carrier. Saves a fortune in flights and car hire.

[eurosaint]

I once rented a car for 2 days and returned it to Glasgow airport after 8pm when the office was shut. I left it in the car park and put the keys and the parking ticket into their letterbox (as instructed) !

Two weeks later I got a call asking when I intended to return the car as I had gone 'a bit' over the original rental period !

To cut a very long story short, I had parked it in the short term park whereas they expected the long term one which was much further away from the terminal !

They tried to sting me for the extra parking charges but I told them to stuff it and after much haggling I managed to convince them that as they had the keys and the ticket it was up to them to find the car or contact me after the 2 day rental period !

They do try it on, this was Hertz by the way (but quite a few years ago !).

[ringwood]

had a case at Glasgow airport, brand new car, only about 20 miles on the clock, fuel gauge didn't go the top, anyway used the car for about 70 miles filled it at the garage on the airport and bingo still not showing full. So explained it, showed them the receipt, and the mileage and got it written on the return form, two weeks later we get a bill for fuel, well that company argued until we provided the written and signed doc fro the returns, they then said sorry its an oversight at which point my accounts dept replied sorry we seem to have lost the details of your account, seems we'll have to look elsewhere for hiring vehicles, bear in mind my company uses hire cars on a daily basis worldwide, their oversight cost them a small fortune!

[lettuce]

This is one of those classic 'the US does it so much better' cases. Hiring cars in the UK is a NIGHTMARE - the rental companies are constantly in search of ways to sting you if you're in the slightest way oblivious of any pre-existing damage. So much so that it seems to me to be organised fraud. In the US, by contrast, renting cars is easy, cheap and a real pleasure.

 

Agree with this. Been to the US twice in the last 12 months and hired cars through Alamo both times - absolutely no problems whatsoever.

 

The first trip, we booked an "economy" class vehicle. They offered us a Nissan Cube, but it had no parcel shelf in the boot. We asked if they could provide a parcel shelf as we'd be touring around for a couple of weeks with luggage in the boot which we didn't want to be visible. They didn't have the parcel shelf so upgraded us to a Chevrolet Impala (2 classes higher) for no extra charge.

 

The second trip, we booked a "standard" class vehicle. They offered us a Chevrolet Impala but the passenger seat was soaking wet (it's been ****ing down in Boston during the last couple of weeks) They had no other vehicles in that class so upgraded us to an SUV for no extra charge - we got a brand new Hyundai Santa Fe fresh out of the factory!

 

So basically, if you can find something (genuine!) to complain about with the car they offer you, there's a decent chance of a free upgrade

[Whitey Grandad]

We hired a Megane estate a few years ago at naples airport. Just before flying back on the Sunday I went to a lot of trouble finding a garage near the airport and filled the tank with diesel. When the bill came there was a charge for fuel so I called the hire company and the girl said 'Oh, you returned it full, didn't you'. They were just trying it on.

[stu0x]

If you don't have their confirmation that it's ok before you depart, then I'd have thought it would be very difficult to prove that there wasn't any damage on the car.

It's their job to prove that there *was* damage, not his job to prove that there wasn't.

 

If they haven't done a walk-around with you and gotten you to sign for the damage, they have no hope. Dispute it, and eventually they will give up. For starters, ask to see digitally timestamped photographs of the damage, and a copy of the damage report and assessment, which of course will need to be dated the same day you dropped the car off as that's when they sent you the letter.

[pap]

It's their job to prove that there *was* damage, not his job to prove that there wasn't.

 

If they haven't done a walk-around with you and gotten you to sign for the damage, they have no hope. Dispute it, and eventually they will give up. For starters, ask to see digitally timestamped photographs of the damage, and a copy of the damage report and assessment, which of course will need to be dated the same day you dropped the car off as that's when they sent you the letter.

 

Very nice. Will be using this in the phone call tomorrow. Ta.

[stu0x]

Call, but only as a precursor to written correspondence. It's very easy to deny what was said over the phone. On paper, not so much.

 

So in your phone call, restrict yourself solely to informing them that you are disputing the damage and that you won't be paying the amount. Insist you returned the car undamaged. You might find that they accept it's a mistake at that point and write it off. If not, don't argue the point, just tell them that you disagree and that you'll be sending them a letter.

[Micky]

The missus made an interesting point. The letter is dated 1st June, the day that I left the car there. Actually left it there quite late ( around 16:40 ), and it was a Friday so a lot of people were returning cars. Anyway, in the few short hours that were left on that day, they were apparently able to determine the damage, the extent of it and charge my card. £800 happens to be the amount of the excess. So they're either super-efficient or trying one on. They didn't notify me about the damage via phone - I was actually stuck at the airport until 9pm.

 

Plus there is the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, nothing was wrong with the car. Going to be an interesting phone call tomorrow.

 

Belfast International is the airport.

 

Belfast International is where I start and end my journeys, therefore I don't have any experience of hiring cars this side, but give the facts so far I really can't see you losing this one.

 

The only problem is that you don't have to really damage a car too significantly for them to rack up 800 quid worth of charges. The car that I 'allegedly' damaged had a small mark on it no longer than your fingernail, I was being asked to pay 600 euros I believe in order to have it 'repaired'.

 

Either way - I still think that the fact they did not bring this to your attention at the time of handing the car back (effectively ending the contract?) - is their problem - not yours. How do you know what has happened to that vehicle between the time you handed it back and recieving a letter saying it was damaged. Also, even if they were able to supply 'time stamped' photos of said damage, proves nothing really does it. Doesn't your average camera simply gain the time of the photo from the settings that are current on the camera at the time - very easy to eerrrr 'manipulate'.

 

Good luck with this one - will be interesting to see how it pans out. I wonder if, once challenged (vigorously I hope!), it just becomes an oversight / mistake by the company....!!!

[angelman]

pap - I would also get on to your credit card company (hoping that you left a credit card rather than debit card) and warn them that they are trying to diddle you. Some card companies are better than others (why I have an Amex as their customer service is fantastic although not so many places accept it). Even if your card is charged, you can challenge it and usually the demand for payment is put on hold until resolution.

[LVSaint]

With regard to additional insurance policies and CDW, I always assumed that if you made reservations with VISA, Mastercard etc, these card companies included this coverage anyway?

[trousers]

When you phone them up begin by saying: "Hello. I'm a researcher from the BBC Watchdog programme and we've had a letter from a viewer that we would like to include in our next series regarding some money you are trying to extort from him...."

[dune]

When you phone them up begin by saying: "Hello. I'm a researcher from the BBC Watchdog programme and we've had a letter from a viewer that we would like to include in our next series regarding some money you are trying to extort from him...."

 

Cue Rangool (the call centre operator in Bombay) asking "is that b for balloon, b for balloon, c for charlie"?

[trousers]

Cue Rangool (the call centre operator in Bombay) asking "is that b for balloon, b for balloon, c for charlie"?

 

Rangool? Aren't they usually called "Kevin"...? ;-)

[pap]

Well, been on the phone to them. They are going to conduct an investigation. The person at customer services sounded a bit floored when I explained that I'd given the keys to one of their staff and they didn't do a walkaround. Think that may well be the crux of the matter.

 

Told them that I would blog about it and reference them on Twitter. I have done just that.

 

Blog here.

 

Twitter link here.

 

If you feel like helping out a fellow Saints fan in his fight against the corporate behemoth, gis a retweet

[Verbal]

Well, been on the phone to them. They are going to conduct an investigation. The person at customer services sounded a bit floored when I explained that I'd given the keys to one of their staff and they didn't do a walkaround. Think that may well be the crux of the matter.

 

Told them that I would blog about it and reference them on Twitter. I have done just that.

 

Blog here.

 

Twitter link here.

 

If you feel like helping out a fellow Saints fan in his fight against the corporate behemoth, gis a retweet

 

If for any reason you do part with the £800+, do make sure you send it with a County Court Summons to reclaim it. You'd win easily and cheaply.

[pap]

If for any reason you do part with the £800+, do make sure you send it with a County Court Summons to reclaim it. You'd win easily and cheaply.

 

Already gone, sir! Went out the day they did their inspection. As I said in the blog piece, the efficiency of their Accounts Receivable department is second to none!

[Minty]

Car Hire is one of those things that depends a LOT on the local staff in the local office. Abroad is a different kettle of fish altogether. As I don't have a car, I use Enterprise in Winchester a lot and know all of the staff there pretty well. They also use a damage gauge, which means a scratch has to be longer than a certain amount before they consider it damage, same with a chip on the windscreen. All round I find them to be excellent.

 

Now, contrast this with Enterprise staff who used to meet passengers at Southampton Airport when I worked there... they were crap. I know things have improved a lot since they got a dedicated Car Hire building in the car park, but it does go to show that the reputations of companies you hire from depend a lot on how the individual branches look after you.

[Verbal]

Already gone, sir! Went out the day they did their inspection. As I said in the blog piece, the efficiency of their Accounts Receivable department is second to none!

 

Oh good. They will cave.

[pap]

I now have a tweet back from @europcar_uk offering to investigate. Blog piece is going gangbusters btw. Already the second most viewed post I've ever done. If you've been good enough to retweet, I thank you. If not, get on it

[Tony F]

pap - I would also get on to your credit card company (hoping that you left a credit card rather than debit card) and warn them that they are trying to diddle you. Some card companies are better than others (why I have an Amex as their customer service is fantastic although not so many places accept it). Even if your card is charged, you can challenge it and usually the demand for payment is put on hold until resolution.

 

The advice above is, in my experience, correct - good card companies will log the charge as "disputed" for months, if necessary.

 

My other piece of advice, if the car company does not cave in but tries to play hard ball with you, is to up the ante by logging the card transaction as "fraudulent" with your card provider. This will get a whole new department allocated to investigate and the hire car company will not like this at all. Worked for me to the tune of around a grand, last year

[trousers]

Well, been on the phone to them. They are going to conduct an investigation. The person at customer services sounded a bit floored when I explained that I'd given the keys to one of their staff and they didn't do a walkaround. Think that may well be the crux of the matter.

 

Told them that I would blog about it and reference them on Twitter. I have done just that.

 

Blog here.

 

Twitter link here.

 

If you feel like helping out a fellow Saints fan in his fight against the corporate behemoth, gis a retweet

 

Done

[pap]

Done

 

Good man, trousers. Given the amount of time we have left in the day, shaping up to be the most popular post ever.

 

Just a shame that my left-wing rants don't get as much attention!

[pap]

Progress! Short version. They are repaying £675 immediately. I think the rest will follow.

 

Long version is here.

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/11/how-to-make-152-from-a-single-sheet-of-a4-62-2/

 

Cheers for all the support so far.

[trousers]

Progress! Short version. They are repaying £675 immediately. I think the rest will follow.

 

Long version is here.

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/11/how-to-make-152-from-a-single-sheet-of-a4-62-2/

 

Cheers for all the support so far.

 

Nice one, but why only a partial settlement (thus far)? Either the car was damaged or it wasn't. Shirley?

[trousers]

P.s. and where's my percentage for badgering them on Twitter and Facebook for you...? ;-))

[pap]

Nice one, but why only a partial settlement (thus far)? Either the car was damaged or it wasn't. Shirley?

 

They're still claiming the car was damaged, but not to the tune of £800 ( +£27 admin fee ). Now they're claiming that I damaged the car, but the extent of the damage was only £125.

 

According to them, they charged me the full £800 because the damage assessment entry system was down. Instead of waiting for it to come back up, they charged me £800 instead of the actual amount. Assessed cost of damage = £125 + 27, which they say I'm responsible for.

 

They're paying me the £675 back because I never owed it in the first place. Everything else is still in dispute.

[pap]

P.s. and where's my percentage for badgering them on Twitter and Facebook for you...? ;-))

 

trousers - your support today, specifically "crossing the floor of the house" to help a beleaguered left-winger, was an inspiration - a true tale of how men of different political persuasions can find common cause against a seemingly invincible foe.

 

I suppose I'd hoped that mere participation in the epic tale of the Europcar Martyrs would have been payment enough

[trousers]

trousers - your support today, specifically "crossing the floor of the house" to help a beleaguered left-winger, was an inspiration - a true tale of how men of different political persuasions can find common cause against a seemingly invincible foe.

 

I suppose I'd hoped that mere participation in the epic tale of the Europcar Martyrs would have been payment enough

 

:-)

[pap]

More bloggage, and another phone call!

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/13/did-i-hire-a-vauxhall-corsa-or-a-delorean/

 

Will be resolved tomorrow, apparently. Cheers for the RTs.

[norwaysaint]

I once had Budget try to charge me for damage to a car. I told them no chance as they'd had the car parked in a car park open to the public for two hours before I was informed and anything could've happened in the meantime. She tried to tell me that they'd noticed immediately but had only just informed me. i then pointed out that I'd heard her conversation in the background, in Norwegian, moments before that indicated otherwise. Her replay was "OK, you don't have to pay, but never come back to Budget again."

 

As a result of that kind of service, I rarely do.

[trousers]

More bloggage, and another phone call!

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/13/did-i-hire-a-vauxhall-corsa-or-a-delorean/

 

Will be resolved tomorrow, apparently. Cheers for the RTs.

 

What a bunch of clowns. I trust that, after you've received the FULL excess refund, you'll be sending them an invoice for your time and expenses accumulated as a result of having to correct their errors and incompetence?

[pap]

What a bunch of clowns. I trust that, after you've received the FULL excess refund you'll be sending them an invoice for your time and expenses accumulated as a result of having to correct their errors and incompetence?

 

Get them to pay for the time I spent dissing their service? It's a delicious idea, trousers.

 

I am convinced that the social media angle has been a major factor in all of this. According to customer services, this issue has the attention of their Customer Experience Director. I'm not sure whether that's accurate or not, don't think I'd have got anywhere 20 years ago.

 

Hooray for the Internet, I suppose.

[Michelle]

Get them to pay for the time I spent dissing their service? It's a delicious idea, trousers.

 

I am convinced that the social media angle has been a major factor in all of this. According to customer services, this issue has the attention of their Customer Experience Director. I'm not sure whether that's accurate or not, don't think I'd have got anywhere 20 years ago.

 

Hooray for the Internet, I suppose.

 

Don't forget to charge them interest for the time they've had your money. =P

[pap]

Well, I have been contacted again!

 

Short version. They're not giving the money back. They sent some laughable proof.

 

Slightly longer version blogged (with Vehicle Check In Document linked, official document fans! ):-

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/06/18/europclowns/

 

trousers inspired the title*

 

*this may be changed if/when Europcar legal get on the case