pap Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 Hmm. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/08/eurozone-crisis-germany-suffers-imports Spain to formally request a bailout tomorrow. I wonder how many more the EU can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 Oh, could you imagine... "What do you mean.... NO!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 8 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 8 June, 2012 Oh, could you imagine... "What do you mean.... NO!?" Or perhaps in Holy Grail style... "I am Juan Carlos, King of Spain. We seek your masters' assistance in an EU bailout". "I'll ask them, but I don't think they'll be very keen. We already did some, you see!". "What do you mean, already did some?!" "We already did some, and they were very nice!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 It's gonna have to be able to afford to as many as come. I really don't like the way this is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 if only we joined the EURO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 It's gonna have to be able to afford to as many as come. I really don't like the way this is going. I do. Should hasten the demise of the Euro nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 I do. Should hasten the demise of the Euro nicely. Nope. Will strengthen it. Who have been the largest beneficiaries of this crisis? The Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 if only we joined the EURO I hope you'll be paying homage to Gordon Brown then The Euro was ruined because they didn't follow their own rules and put political ambition and speed ahead of financial sense. I predict that after this if there is indeed a breakup of a Euro, there will be a Euro 2.0 where they do follow their own rules and only let countries in when they are ready. The Euro will come out much much stronger and perhaps when the time is right we may end up joining it provided we don't vote to get out in any referendum. It's a bit harsh to solely blame the Euro though, we do have an international crisis on and Greece would have overspent like crazy with or without the Euro, and that would have led to contagion in exactly the same way, though obviously the shared currency doesn't help with contagion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 And may I also add that countries like Germany were quite happy to lend lots to Greece and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 And may I also add that countries like Germany were quite happy to lend lots to Greece and co. and as a result, the germans are quickly becoming the "leader" of europe. only taken them 100 years...fair play to persistence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 And may I also add that countries like Germany were quite happy to lend lots to Greece and co. The Greeks were able to borrow money at German interest rates for one simple reason. The markets did not believe the term of the maastricht treaty would be kept. The Maastricht Treaty that all the EU signed up for amended the terms of membership to allow the setting up of the Euro. The treaty had a “no bail-out, no exit, no default” clause. It also set out the terms and conditions of Euro membership. The markets never believed that the no bail out clause would be stuck to, so were happy to continue to lend, safe in the knowledge that they would get most if not all of their money back, and that the EU "project" was more important than any silly rules. There were people in the UK who oppossed the Maastricht Treaty, people who were called extremists and loons. They have been proved right and it was the accusors who have been proved wrong. The Germans and French broke the strict borrowing rules first and the rest followed suit. The Greeks, Italians ect, could not comply with the strict entrance criteria so fudged the figures. All that Gordon Brown did was refuse to fudge the UK's figures. He was for the Euro, he was for the UK's entry to the Euro when the economy was in position for us to enter. He was wrong about the Euro. He was for the Euro for Greece, for Spain, for Ireland and in principle for the UK. What on earth are you thanking him for, not fudging the figures, that's like thanking someone for not robbing your house. When the Euro (which Brown supported) collapses and takes our GDP down by 4/5%, are we going to thank him then. "Thanks Gordon, our GDP fell by 5%, whereas it could of fell 10% had our economy been aligned to allow membership of the Euro). We shouldn't be thanking anyone, we should be saying sorry. Sorry to people like Bill Cash, John Redwood , Teddy Taylor & IDS, we should be saying sorry we should have listened to you and strangled the whole thing at birth . Idiots like Major, Clarke, Hestletine and Pattern, aided by Labour and Lib/Dem Euro fanatics all thought the Euro was a good idea.They are the Peter Storrie's of modern politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 Nope. Will strengthen it. Who have been the largest beneficiaries of this crisis? The Germans. I'm thinking longer term. Will result in the Germans having way to much power, other countries will eventually object and come up with another solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 I'm thinking longer term. Will result in the Germans having way to much power, other countries will eventually object and come up with another solution. More likely (and this what many in the markets expect): with defaults, the Eurozone will be whittled down to core countries whose economies are increasingly linked to Germany's anyway, creating a monetary bloc that will easily outmuscle the £. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 (edited) I'm thinking longer term. Will result in the Germans having way to much power, other countries will eventually object and come up with another solution. of course it will. A former german foreign minister was quoted last week in saying, Germany ripped up the European Order twice last century and if it is not careful, will do so for a 3rd time in 100 years...even if its intentions are very different. IMO, The Germans are close to what they have always wanted...Control over the majority of continental Europe Edited 8 June, 2012 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 The best thing we could do is to leave the EU and the pull up the drawbridge. Europe is bust and and we need to distance ourselves as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 On a lighter note this story made me smile... That'll teach them not to take liberties in our Empire. http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25082 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 (edited) More likely (and this what many in the markets expect): with defaults, the Eurozone will be whittled down to core countries whose economies are increasingly linked to Germany's anyway, creating a monetary bloc that will easily outmuscle the £. Outmuscle in what sense oh wise one? A bloc of stronger economies will lead to a strengthened Euro, and a relatively weaker Pound. This is just what Germany doesn't want, and is just what we do want. It'd be perfect for us. Good for exports, good for the tourist rate to the med. Win win. Germany will dither and stall and kick the can down the road for as long as they possibly can to keep the bankrupt med countries in. Edited 8 June, 2012 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 I think there will be a Euro mark 2 it will be a decimal based system with a picture of Her Majesty the Queen on the notes and coins. As we seem to have one of the only ecconomies surviving this nightmare, they will all want to join our stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 I think there will be a Euro mark 2 it will be a decimal based system with a picture of Her Majesty the Queen on the notes and coins. As we seem to have one of the only ecconomies surviving this nightmare, they will all want to join our stability. NOOOOOOOO!!!! Keep the bastards out, they made their own currency so let them enjoy it. And fwiw, dune makes an entirely valid point. Its all about Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 The Euro is not working at the moment because they failed to follow their own rules. It will come out of this much stronger(and probably smaller), because they will have learnt their lesson the hard way and will be much more careful. It was only a few years ago I remember people going on about how amazing the Euro was and how we should join it because it was doing so well. Just goes to show how quickly things change, and can change either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 The Euro is not working at the moment because they failed to follow their own rules. It will come out of this much stronger(and probably smaller), because they will have learnt their lesson the hard way and will be much more careful. It was only a few years ago I remember people going on about how amazing the Euro was and how we should join it because it was doing so well. Just goes to show how quickly things change, and can change either way. The people who were ridiculed at the time by sensible folk and who continue to be ridiculed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 The people who were ridiculed at the time by sensible folk and who continue to be ridiculed now. No, it was definitely more than that. Though obviously, the pendulum has swung the other way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 No, it was definitely more than that. Though obviously, the pendulum has swung the other way now. No one said how amazing the euro was and how we should join. Only your lot the lib dems did despite others telling you not to be so silly and stating the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 8 June, 2012 Share Posted 8 June, 2012 No one said how amazing the euro was and how we should join. Only your lot the lib dems did despite others telling you not to be so silly and stating the obvious. Some Lib Dems did, as did some Labour people. Obviously the conservatives didn't, but that is more to do with their general anti European feelings than any thought through reasons why the euro might not work fiscally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 The Euro is not working at the moment because they failed to follow their own rules. It will come out of this much stronger(and probably smaller), because they will have learnt their lesson the hard way and will be much more careful. It was only a few years ago I remember people going on about how amazing the Euro was and how we should join it because it was doing so well. Just goes to show how quickly things change, and can change either way. A few wishy washy Lib Dems aka clueless fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 The Euro is not working at the moment because they failed to follow their own rules. It will come out of this much stronger(and probably smaller), because they will have learnt their lesson the hard way and will be much more careful. It was only a few years ago I remember people going on about how amazing the Euro was and how we should join it because it was doing so well. Just goes to show how quickly things change, and can change either way. For a lot of people their memories of being 12 are their first snog or first tin of beer. For Andy it's being told how great the Euro is and how we should join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 Hmm. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/08/eurozone-crisis-germany-suffers-imports Spain to formally request a bailout tomorrow. I wonder how many more the EU can afford. Can't they just get their football clubs to pay their taxes and they'd be sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 Some Lib Dems did, as did some Labour people. Obviously the conservatives didn't, but that is more to do with their general anti European feelings than any thought through reasons why the euro might not work fiscally. There were plenty of Tories who wanted the Euro, Clarke and Heseltine for a start. There were plenty who didn't, and there were plenty of Labour people who didn't. I can't think of too many anti-Euro Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 There were plenty of Tories who wanted the Euro, Clarke and Heseltine for a start. There were plenty who didn't, and there were plenty of Labour people who didn't. I can't think of too many anti-Euro Lib Dems. True and it is why should they be anti eu at the end of the day the euro will be how it was designed for in the first place with the strong nations having a closer union and the weak countries outside in a 2 speed Europe.we will never be strong enough to be at the top table has was proved in the 80s. the bailout is for the banks again due to policy failures from the greedy 80s and lack of controls ever since around the world and rerun of the 1930s . Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 True and it is why should they be anti eu at the end of the day the euro will be how it was designed for in the first place with the strong nations having a closer union and the weak countries outside in a 2 speed Europe.we will never be strong enough to be at the top table has was proved in the 80s. the bailout is for the banks again due to policy failures from the greedy 80s and lack of controls ever since around the world and rerun of the 1930s . Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 despiste being one of the richest nations on earth and in europe for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 despiste being one of the richest nations on earth and in europe for sure What's your analysis of this article? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/08/why-uk-no-longer-superpower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 despiste being one of the richest nations on earth and in europe for sure Take away the city and you will find we are a middle ranking power slipping down the ladder and all our major industrys are owned by foreigners . Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 What's your analysis of this article? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/08/why-uk-no-longer-superpower Good article and it was a shame that our oil wealth was wasted on mass unemployment in the 70s and 80s instead of modernising our infrastructure and relying on services alone which is being put right by recent governments. Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 Some Lib Dems did, as did some Labour people. Obviously the conservatives didn't, but that is more to do with their general anti European feelings than any thought through reasons why the euro might not work fiscally. What a load of pony. Nearly every Lib/Dem did and still does believe we should join the Euro, and dont forget Labour's offical policy was to join when the time was right. It is Labour supporters who are against the Euro, most of their leaders were for it. The argument has always been that you can not have a currency union with economy's as diverse as Greece and Germany. Many Many Tories were against the ERM and against maastricht, both which played massive parts in the birth of the Euro. To claim the people who were right about the Euro all along, were right only because of some xenophobic principle is disingenuous.The Tories fought a painful and bitter battle over maastricht between Euro realists like Taylor, IDS , Redwood ect against Clarke, Major, Pattern and Heseltine. They fought this over principle, and were proved right. Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband are so wedded to idea they can not bring themselves to rule out joining the Euro in future.I doubt if Clarke or Hestletine can either. Yet these very people will be the ones that tell us we can not leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 I remember on here being very anti EURO and getting told off by the likes of BTF for being paranoid and that the £ was too weak and we should join etc etc of course, this will be denied etc I also remember a few years back when Nigel Farage was called a complete lunatic with his EURO predictions....again, by the very same people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 Take away the city and you will find we are a middle ranking power slipping down the ladder and all our major industrys are owned by foreigners . Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 but we can't take away the city.... what an odd thing to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 What a load of pony. Nearly every Lib/Dem did and still does believe we should join the Euro, and dont forget Labour's offical policy was to join when the time was right. It is Labour supporters who are against the Euro, most of their leaders were for it. The argument has always been that you can not have a currency union with economy's as diverse as Greece and Germany. Many Many Tories were against the ERM and against maastricht, both which played massive parts in the birth of the Euro. To claim the people who were right about the Euro all along, were right only because of some xenophobic principle is disingenuous.The Tories fought a painful and bitter battle over maastricht between Euro realists like Taylor, IDS , Redwood ect against Clarke, Major, Pattern and Heseltine. They fought this over principle, and were proved right. Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband are so wedded to idea they can not bring themselves to rule out joining the Euro in future.I doubt if Clarke or Hestletine can either. Yet these very people will be the ones that tell us we can not leave the EU. It wad the Tory party which took us into the eu get over it by shifting the blame and it was only when the Tory nutty right hijacked the party in the late 70s did the policy change.yes people like the respectable john redwood argue on ecnomic grounds and is someone who uses good arguements but most of the rest our barking mad. Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 I remember on here being very anti EURO and getting told off by the likes of BTF for being paranoid and that the £ was too weak and we should join etc etc of course, this will be denied etc I also remember a few years back when Nigel Farage was called a complete lunatic with his EURO predictions....again, by the very same people Tony Blair called people oppossed to the Euro "extremists". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 Tony Blair called people oppossed to the Euro "extremists". he wanted in for his own reasons....he desperately wanted to be the "president" of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 9 June, 2012 Share Posted 9 June, 2012 I remember on here being very anti EURO and getting told off by the likes of BTF for being paranoid and that the £ was too weak and we should join etc etc of course, this will be denied etc I also remember a few years back when Nigel Farage was called a complete lunatic with his EURO predictions....again, by the very same people I would be mightily obliged if you would copy and paste this - unless you are actually saying that I didn't say this but that someone like me did? I did, and still do, support the IDEA - the philosophy, if you will - behind the Euro. But I did say that G Brown was right to not consider the UK's participation until it passed his 5 golden rules. I don't recall saying you were paranoid. At least not in connection with this particular issue Perhaps it was the person / people who are 'like' me? (Hmmm - I thought I was unique ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 10 June, 2012 Share Posted 10 June, 2012 I did, and still do, support the IDEA - the philosophy, if you will - behind the Euro. But I did say that G Brown was right to not consider the UK's participation until it passed his 5 golden rules. How on earth can you support the idea, an idea which will end in tears and cause the people of some European countries a decade of misery. Brown was not right, the Euro was wrong full stop. It doesn't matter whether the "golden rules" were passed or not. The whole idea was wrong and is still wrong. The problem is people and politicans thinking like you do. Until you lot wake up and smell the coffee,abandon the whole idea and have a planned ending of the Euro things will never get better. Ken Livingstone was on Sky this morning and he hit the nail on the head. The whole thing was about creating a United States of Europe. Surely the ERM fiasco should have told you the Euro was unworkable.How on earth people can still support the idea is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 June, 2012 Share Posted 10 June, 2012 but we can't take away the city.... what an odd thing to say The City can very easily taken away from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 10 June, 2012 Share Posted 10 June, 2012 Regardless of the facts here, you are a proper ****, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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