No more free season tickets for blind supporters

[hamster]

I can see both sides of the argument though.

[Webby]

Got.....to....resist.......joke......ahhhh....announced on the website is pushing it.......ahhhhh

 

Blind people can read websites you know!

[Winchester Red]

Would be nice but no business/club should feel obliged to give free tickets to any sector of the community.

 

Do cinemas give free tickets to the blind?

[jawillwill]

Asda give free lamb chops to vegetarians.

[trousers]

You can be a right socialist when you want to be (or maybe it's when something has effected you), well done Dune! You do have a heart.

 

I agree with Dune too but he's actually displaying a conservative attitude to the not so well off rather than taking a Labour/socialist stance.

 

The conservative stance is to help those that really need help and prune out the people that try and take advantage of the benefit system when they don't really need it. Socialism is a more scattergun solution to the same problem.

 

Conservatism is simply correctly targetted socialism....

 

Yours devils-advocately....

[dune]

You can be a right socialist when you want to be (or maybe it's when something has effected you), well done Dune! You do have a heart.

 

You can be a capitalist and believe in philanthropy. The problem with people like Cortese is that they are too cold and heartless and everything has a price. To let a handful of blind supporters in for nothing is the decent thing to do and it will cost a miniscule amount.

[dune]

Would be nice but no business/club should feel obliged to give free tickets to any sector of the community.

 

Do cinemas give free tickets to the blind?

 

 

http://www.ceacard.co.uk/

[Tokyo-Saint]

You can be a capitalist and believe in philanthropy. The problem with people like Cortese is that they are too cold and heartless and everything has a price. To let a handful of blind supporters in for nothing is the decent thing to do and it will cost a miniscule amount.

 

Would you let the enabler in for free as well? Where would you draw the line if you were in charge? Disabled fans? What impairment would a fan have to have to get in for free?

[hamster]

On balance, saints offer a great service to disabled fans in general.

 

This move though will literally price some of those most deserving of a little hand out, out of attending. I suppose that applies to many with prem price increases but it's come from SDSA initiatives so based on sound insight and knowledge the 'system'.

 

One plus is that I now assume that if you are blind you can sit where you want?

[hamster]

Those DLA etc criteria are pretty sound compared to what was in place IMO. I'm actually changing my view on this strangely, based on the two extremes of 1 chap; wheelchair user, blind, partially deaf and another who cycles to games (I kid you not) he does wear glasses for reading though.

[dune]

Would you let the enabler in for free as well? Where would you draw the line if you were in charge? Disabled fans? What impairment would a fan have to have to get in for free?

 

If I was in charge I would adopt the policy that Lowe did, which Cortese has scrapped.

[Tokyo-Saint]

If I was in charge I would adopt the policy that Lowe did, which Cortese has scrapped.

 

Which is?

[Dimond Geezer]

as a father of a disabled kid, it is always nice when you get a discount, but the only real thing that I ever want to happen is a bit of help in getting my boy places. If I ever did bring him to SMS, all I would want is to be able to get in and out of the stadium easily rather than get cheap/free tickets.

 

Angleman, I assume your son is wheelchair bound. The facilities for wheelchairs at SMS are pretty good, In the past I've been an enabler for a mate of mine, iirc there are wheelchair spaces all around the perimeter of the pitch, access is great, but you may wish to wait until the bulk of the crowd have left before leaving yourself.

[solentstars]

If I was in charge I would adopt the policy that Lowe did, which Cortese has scrapped.

 

I agree with you dune I find it sad that the club has descended to this level for a few extra pounds in their pockets.the majority of the clubs mega money comes from sky tv.

The gate money is small in terms of income.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

[dune]

Which is?

 

The policy that predates the current policy.

[Tokyo-Saint]

The policy that predates the current policy.

 

brilliant Dune. Once again well done. You make a good point in an intellectual way but with a cutting slice of humour. I'm surprised I haven't seen you on 'Have I got news for you' .... or have I?

[Itchen_block4]

As a wheelchair bound supporter myself, I'll give my insight.

 

I go to games with a mate. He helps me to get to my space. We buy our ticket at a concession price. The enabler may be free, but we split the cost to keep things fair. If he couldn't go, I could go with someone else and not pay any extra. If I couldn't go, he would have to pay a top up fee and anyone he went with would pay full price. That last innovation came in this (last) season. In L1 when we weren't expecting a big crowd, he could use the ticket to get in with a mate. Although that was nice, I don't object to the new system and he doesn't either as it's only fair. Many disabled people (a lot of blind people too) are very independent and don't really need an enabler, but since they're part of the price many do bring a friend. Individually assessing everyone is more difficult and expensive than allowing enablers in, so don't expect the policy to change.

[dune]

A blast from the past...

 

[The Kraken]

I think SFC's approach to disabled tickets is actually very good.

 

1 disabled ticket (which is at the lowest rate) also includes 1 free enabler ticket; so, take a mate, split the cost and each pay half price for a ticket.

 

For visually impaired, radios and headsets are included in the ticket price.

There is specially designed areas for 168 wheelchair spaces in the stadium.

There is an additional 88 seats for ambulant disabled (i.e. still regiastered disabled but can walk).

There are designated stewards who will help with getting refreshments etc for disabled supporters who come without an enabler.

 

That's all just in the home end, the away end has the same facilities but obviously on a smaller scale.

 

So I think any criticism of the club in this area is harsh.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/DisabledFans/0,,10280,00.html

[hamster]

In theory a wheelchair user could take a front row seat all around the perimeter. Including an enabler this would take up 3 seat spaces. This, I understand, was planned for implementation last season but have no idea why it was not introduced.

 

Also, in my experience, the raised wheelchair boxes sell out quicker than most areas of the ground, I'd like to see more of these areas when the new stadium is built.

[angelman]

Angleman, I assume your son is wheelchair bound. The facilities for wheelchairs at SMS are pretty good, In the past I've been an enabler for a mate of mine, iirc there are wheelchair spaces all around the perimeter of the pitch, access is great, but you may wish to wait until the bulk of the crowd have left before leaving yourself.

 

Aye, that he is, and agree with staying behind after the crowd. Still, not sure he would understand what was going on, although I am sure that he would love the noise of 30k+ people cheering. Suppose will never know unless I take him.

[Orange]

Personally I think the club should provide a certain number of free tickets for those less fortunate than ourselves, and some of the sheep like comments from the hilarious teenagers only serve to illustrate what spoilt brats they are. I have a cousin who has a rare form of blindness that can affect every other generation. He is lucky in that his employer stuck by him as his sight went and he now works in an office earning a living, but not everyone who is blind can work and they can't help that. We're not talking about Benefits slobs here, we're talking about genuine cases. And a football club is a part of the community and as such should make a little bit of effort to give something back. F/ck me they rake enough money in - 90 mil in sky money next season - it's not really too much to ask to do the decent thing for a few blind fans.

 

This.

[Itchen_block4]

I think SFC's approach to disabled tickets is actually very good.

 

1 disabled ticket (which is at the lowest rate) also includes 1 free enabler ticket; so, take a mate, split the cost and each pay half price for a ticket.

 

For visually impaired, radios and headsets are included in the ticket price.

There is specially designed areas for 168 wheelchair spaces in the stadium.

There is an additional 88 seats for ambulant disabled (i.e. still regiastered disabled but can walk).

There are designated stewards who will help with getting refreshments etc for disabled supporters who come without an enabler.

 

That's all just in the home end, the away end has the same facilities but obviously on a smaller scale.

 

So I think any criticism of the club in this area is harsh.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/DisabledFans/0,,10280,00.html

 

This doesn't happen. In the Chapel stand, to get to the concourse from the raised balcony, you have to go through a one-way door and be let back in by a steward. From my place int the itchen balcony, I'm not sure where direct access to the concourse is. The last 2 pitch invasions involved going outside the stadium and re-entering through one of the main exits. Still, the prices in the concourse are expensive, the food is average and the queues are long, so we don't miss much. One thing they don't do that would be very useful would be wheelchair adapted vehicles with the travel club. Distance train travel is very expensive and not all stations are accessible.

[hamster]

The travel club provide a coach (number 2) for every away game that has a side lift that can accommodate 2 wheelchairs. From what I recall when they unveiled it they can remove more seats if demeans was high enough on a regular basis. The previous system was a iveco bus that could hold 4 wc's but had no refreshment or toilet. It was also a fair bit slower.

 

If you live within the city and want to be dropped off in the car park then register with Dial-a-Ride, the club subsidise the service, iirc it's a quid a game. Their number: 023 8022 2033 ask abou PlusBus too which is available to small groups and organisations.

 

Theres a lot out there but it's just finding them, 1community based in Eastleigh for example have a 'buddy' scheme whereby volunteers are matched to individuals needs etc.

[ericb]

For visually impaired, radios and headsets are included in the ticket price. - these headset rarely work and it's absolutely vital that the person going takes a radio in case they don't, in fact i have personally commentated a game due to both the headsets not working and a radio being out of batteries.

 

There is an additional 88 seats for ambulant disabled (i.e. still regiastered disabled but can walk). - not sure if this includes blind people but from my experience the seats are completely normal seats, including all the normal complaints of seating/access etc that we all have at st mary's (times by ten for someone who's blind)

 

There are designated stewards who will help with getting refreshments etc for disabled supporters who come without an enabler. - this is just not true, at least not for blind people anyway. Not that i'd ever bemoan the stewards who are excellent, but a blind fan seriously needs a carer with them since there would be no way they could even make it into the ground, let alone get a drink or go to the toilet at half time, without someone aiding. It's actually very noticeable just how badly designed the ground is for people with visual impairment, much worse than the dell which had far easier access.

 

Now honestly i do think it's a little "unfair" if disabled people get a free ticket, especially if it's one impairment against another. But for me i think it's the least the club can do for a tiny percentage of their fan base. Especially when you get to know the people that go, aside from those like the one i know who's been blind since birth and has mental health problems (learning difficulties) there are people who've lost their sight in motorbike accidents etc. If the club can't find it to offer something a bit special for them, and if we as fans can't look to ourselves to fight their corner when it's needed then i'm personally disgusted.

 

As it stands if it comes down to this i'll probably look at spending some of my own money so the person i know can go, if this means i can't get a season ticket myself so be it. For him it's one of the highlights of a life that i wouldn't wish on a single soul.

 

Mind you as some have said, welcome to the greedy premiership, where people don't matter and money and success does. Another reason i guess for me to fu.cking hate the shambles that our game has become.

[hamster]

Good post.

 

The club needs to acknowledge this and the first step on this road should not to be to extract money from this sub group it should be to address those points that you raise.

 

First on list: sort those bloody radios out. Absolutely rubbish, and hospital radio is the best commentary going. Those lads at brilliant.

 

I must know you btw.

Edited 8 June, 2012 by hamster
Wine.

[hamster]

Brighton let us sit with the players 2 last year. Brilliant stewards and disablity attitude.

[ericb]

ericb, that is the stand out best post I have ever read. It has upset me.

 

Im no bloody saint (in context) but people often tell me I am. It is embarrassing, seriously, I never know where to start.

 

Ive helped many disabled saints fans to attend matches. My dream job be saints disability coordinator. I told Shauna this before the club scrapped the post. In fact I would be brilliant at it, there I've said it, I am so passionate about inclusion and have a wealth of experience.

 

I have now and then had spare tickets through my involvement and any money made has gone directly to subsidising the schemes I have set up. Sorted that disabled minibus too. I'm no saint cos I just love doing it, it's no big deal to me.

 

I say all this cos I know for fact that it is a massive deal for those I help. In as few words as I can put it: it is without question most difficult on every single level for a blind person. The club needs to acknowledge this and the fieldstone step on this road should not to be to extract money from this sub group it should be to address those points that you raise.

 

First on list: sort those bloody radios out. Absolutely rubbish, and hospital radio is the best commentary going. Those lads at brilliant.

 

I must know you btw. Is you're name Steve T?

 

Cheers mate, it's a topic very close to my heart as i know a few disabled fans and know just how passionate they are, and how much more of an effort they make (if you want to call anyone a superfan look right there!).

 

Know what you mean about the not wanting credit thing, it really is enough just to help out and i think it's the least any decent person would do. Not least i don't think people understand the release this gives to the full time carers that look after them.

 

Many forget that it's not just the financial burden many of these people feel (and believe me that's depressingly more real now the tories are in power) but also the amount of time they give. Those people are truly saints for what they give to friends, relatives or just because they care.

 

As for knowing me i have no doubt you do but i'm not one for sharing my name on a public forum! Let's just say if you drove the minibus in the past then i've probably travelled in it with you. I've been helping out with the blind society at the football since the early 90's on and off and knew Ron F very, very well (what an incredible man he is, never asked for anything and gave up so much of his time to people less fortunate).

 

Those radios are truly shocking btw and i can't believe the club don't do anything about them! The stewards on the other hand really are superb and it was nice to see one of them patting the fella i know on the back as he made his way onto the pitch this season, if only the club followed their attitude i'd believe we were really going in the right direction re:disabilities!

[Dimond Geezer]

In theory a wheelchair user could take a front row seat all around the perimeter. Including an enabler this would take up 3 seat spaces. This, I understand, was planned for implementation last season but have no idea why it was not introduced.

 

 

Have things changed? From my experience, admitedly it's been a couple of years since I've accompanied my mate, (he has MND & is now too ill to leave the house), but the wheelchairs were infront of the first row of seating, so no actual seats were allocated to the wheelchair, but a bay in front of them

[angelman]

I think that quite a lot of it is determined by the dreaded H&S bods and how quickly disabled people can be evacuated. To be honest, if you are at the back of the stand (ie high up) your chances of getting out of the stands if there was a fire are pretty poor. Maybe it is just people ambling after the game, but it seems to take 10-15 minutes to get out.

 

But give SMS it's due, there is disabled seating on all four sides of the ground.

[Ken Tone]

The policy that predates the current policy.

 

 

I see the Tory 'survival of the fittest' principle still lives within you Dune, in spite of what you've said.

 

I suspect you mean to say "pre-dates" not "predates", but your sub-conscious won!

[crashhot]

Something to bear in mind; a blind person wishing to come to a game has (presumably) to be accompanied by an enabler. I think all the club have done is bring all disabilities into line; all disabled tickets come with a free enabler ticket.

 

Besides, according to the club, they held discussions with the Saints Disabled Supporters Association before making the changes.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/DisabledFans

 

And radios and headsets are provided for all blind fans, so its right that that service should be paid for.

 

I can quite categorically say that the club did not mention this in any of its discussions with the Saints Disabled Supporters Association, neither did they give us as a group an opportunity to comment on their proposals.

 

Personally, what ever your view of it and I think some of the views expressed on this thread are, quite frankly, a nice reflection of what the Nazis used to think of disabled people and it will be very interesting when these arseholes pick up their own impairment (it happens with age or illness in most cases you know) to see what they think about measures targeted at any kind of disabled person when they fall in that category?

 

However, myself, I think it would have been much more appropriate to have announced this in plenty of time for people to save for their ticket if they were used to getting a full subsidy.

 

anyway, I'm not a fully paid-up member here so I won't be able to conduct a long and detailed conversation about this I just wanted to be very clear that the SDSA did not in any way approve these measures and would have certainly appreciated the chance to discuss them with the club in more detail even if the club, as is clear that they were, were determined to implement them.

[Itchen_block4]

The travel club provide a coach (number 2) for every away game that has a side lift that can accommodate 2 wheelchairs. From what I recall when they unveiled it they can remove more seats if demeans was high enough on a regular basis. The previous system was a iveco bus that could hold 4 wc's but had no refreshment or toilet. It was also a fair bit slower.

 

If you live within the city and want to be dropped off in the car park then register with Dial-a-Ride, the club subsidise the service, iirc it's a quid a game. Their number: 023 8022 2033 ask abou PlusBus too which is available to small groups and organisations.

 

Theres a lot out there but it's just finding them, 1community based in Eastleigh for example have a 'buddy' scheme whereby volunteers are matched to individuals needs etc.

 

From what I've been told when I've enquried, there is a vehicle with a lift, but it's not equipped for the user to remain in the wheelchair when the coach is moving. It's pretty useless for someone who is wheelchair-bound.

[The Kraken]

I can quite categorically say that the club did not mention this in any of its discussions with the Saints Disabled Supporters Association, neither did they give us as a group an opportunity to comment on their proposals.

 

Personally, what ever your view of it and I think some of the views expressed on this thread are, quite frankly, a nice reflection of what the Nazis used to think of disabled people and it will be very interesting when these arseholes pick up their own impairment (it happens with age or illness in most cases you know) to see what they think about measures targeted at any kind of disabled person when they fall in that category?

 

However, myself, I think it would have been much more appropriate to have announced this in plenty of time for people to save for their ticket if they were used to getting a full subsidy.

 

anyway, I'm not a fully paid-up member here so I won't be able to conduct a long and detailed conversation about this I just wanted to be very clear that the SDSA did not in any way approve these measures and would have certainly appreciated the chance to discuss them with the club in more detail even if the club, as is clear that they were, were determined to implement them.

 

I think you (and others on this thread) have brought up some very valid issues which, quite frankly, wouldn't normally be brought to the attention of most supporters. I'll happily say that my opinion has been reversed since initially reading through (and posting on) this thread. At first glance it seemed the club weren't doing too much wrong. And, to be fair, I still don't think they are doing THAT much wrong. But, once again, the club have completely let themselves down by a lack of dialogue and some poor PR. As you rightly say, if there were major changes to be made then its only right that those changes could and should have been made public well in advance.

 

From comments heard on here; its obviously a disgrace if headsets and radios are provided that consistently don't work. So hopefully that is something that will be addressed. The issues of pricing etc, well that is very subjective but after seeing the prices other PL clubs I'm concerned that ours are very much in the highest bracket. But then we don't know the full facts with that table (with respect to enabler tickets etc) so its unfair to comment on that.

 

In any case, its a little sad that a lack of dialogue has let SFC down; will they ever learn the art of customer service?! I somehow doubt they don't know and don't care too much, unfortunately. And if what you say is right; that they attached the name of the Saints Disabled Association without real full input, then that's plainly not right.

[SW11_Saint]

Personally I think the club should provide a certain number of free tickets for those less fortunate than ourselves, and some of the sheep like comments from the hilarious teenagers only serve to illustrate what spoilt brats they are. I have a cousin who has a rare form of blindness that can affect every other generation. He is lucky in that his employer stuck by him as his sight went and he now works in an office earning a living, but not everyone who is blind can work and they can't help that. We're not talking about Benefits slobs here, we're talking about genuine cases. And a football club is a part of the community and as such should make a little bit of effort to give something back. F/ck me they rake enough money in - 90 mil in sky money next season - it's not really too much to ask to do the decent thing for a few blind fans.

Well said.