Not A Good Day For Verbal & Co.

[Saintandy666]

Well that's nonsense. Just because some people stayed in doesn't mean they are apathetic, they just stayed in and enjoyed watching the event on the TV. Of course you've got a bitter minority - marxist types like badger and Peter Tatchell, but they are more isolated than ever.

 

I dunno. The fact people tuned into that concert doesn't prove support for the monarchy at all; it had a lot of very famous acts. As for the pageant; yes 11m watched on TV, but 50m didn't bother. I'm not saying that a lot aren't very enthusiastic, but the majority are just happy with the status quo and quite apathetic. My work got busier when the Pageant began.

[dune]

Opinion polls in the UK persistently give the monarchy at least two thirds popular support. This beats any political party in history. Only the death of Diana brought a brief hiccup, and monarchy still retained a majority. An ICM poll for the Guardian last month had 69 per cent backing the Queen, an all-time high. Meanwhile Mori put republicanism at just 13 per cent. Badger and his ilk are essentially as relevent as the wishy washy Lib Dems.

[badgerx16]

No, there are many Anglophiles in America Badger. You're not very educated on this subject are you?

 

I didn't say there weren't many Anglophiles in the USofA, I merely said that I suspect they hold a particularly quaint view of what the UK means. Is reading and understanding written English too difficult for you ?

[dune]

I didn't say there weren't many Anglophiles in the USofA, I merely said that I suspect they hold a particularly quaint view of what the UK means. Is reading and understanding written English too difficult for you ?

 

If it was I could always buy a burger van.

[badgerx16]

If it was I could always buy a burger van.

 

But you wouldn't, because that would mean having to go to work for a living.

[Saintandy666]

Opinion polls in the UK persistently give the monarchy at least two thirds popular support. This beats any political party in history. Only the death of Diana brought a brief hiccup, and monarchy still retained a majority. An ICM poll for the Guardian last month had 69 per cent backing the Queen, an all-time high. Meanwhile Mori put republicanism at just 13 per cent. Badger and his ilk are essentially as relevent as the wishy washy Lib Dems.

 

Yes, when people are asked do you want a monarchy? They say, well the status quo is alright at the moment, so yea why not?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I dunno. The fact people tuned into that concert doesn't prove support for the monarchy at all; it had a lot of very famous acts. As for the pageant; yes 11m watched on TV, but 50m didn't bother. I'm not saying that a lot aren't very enthusiastic, but the majority are just happy with the status quo and quite apathetic. My work got busier when the Pageant began.

 

as I am sure you are aware you cannot really judge the event on viewing figures when most people were out doing things.

[Saintandy666]

as I am sure you are aware you cannot really judge the event on viewing figures when most people were out doing things.

 

Doing non-jubilee related stuff. My work was absolutely packed. Busier than normal.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I'm sure you live in a fairytale castle, Sergei. You're right about beer - hate the stuff.

 

Here's the problem though. As grindingly tedious (even for QE2 evidently) as the whole boat thing was, it did have a rather unfortunate but entirely characteristic 'let them eat cake' moment. 30 long-term unemployed were bussed up from Bristol by one of those subcontracting 'security' firms of which governments are so fond these days. They were in London to act as stewards, but were paid nothing, discovered they had to buy their own food, were dumped under London Bridge as their first night's accommodation, and left in a waterlogged Essex field to pitch their own tents in the dark for the second night.

 

For all the wealth and pageantry on display, you'd have thought someone could have stretched to paying these people a wage for their work - something at least. But no - and that's pretty shameful, don't you think?

 

Well I am not going to elaborate on where I live Verbal but I do eat Ferrer Roche.

 

As I am sure you would agree you cannot blame the Queen for the 'Jubilee thirty'. The Guardian's equivalent of the Daily Mail's tedious bash the BBC headlines.

[Saintandy666]

Well I am not going to elaborate on where I live Verbal but I do eat Ferrer Roche.

 

As I am sure you would agree you cannot blame the Queen for the 'Jubilee thirty'. The Guardian's equivalent of the Daily Mail's tedious bash the BBC headlines.

 

There were 80 of them, 50 apprentices and 30 non-paid(they were told they would be paid, but then told once they were there they wouldn't be and if they complained they would get an Olympics job which was paid). I do think that it needs to be gotten to the bottom of and fast, but as you say you can't blame the Queen. I think it is just a symptom of what happens when the Public Sector contracts out things it should be doing to various companies to do at the lowest price possible.

[dune]

Doing non-jubilee related stuff. My work was absolutely packed. Busier than normal.

 

Is that all the extra supplements you had to deliver on your paper round?

[Saintandy666]

Is that all the extra supplements you had to deliver on your paper round?

 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

There were 80 of them, 50 apprentices and 30 non-paid(they were told they would be paid, but then told once they were there they wouldn't be and if they complained they would get an Olympics job which was paid). I do think that it needs to be gotten to the bottom of and fast, but as you say you can't blame the Queen. I think it is just a symptom of what happens when the Public Sector contracts out things it should be doing to various companies to do at the lowest price possible.

 

Well in fairness all around the country people spent hours working for nothing for their local communities.

[Badger]

Well that's nonsense. Just because some people stayed in doesn't mean they are apathetic, they just stayed in and enjoyed watching the event on the TV. Of course you've got a bitter minority - marxist types like badger and Peter Tatchell, but they are more isolated than ever.

 

Just to clarify,and for the record Dune, you are referring to Badgerx16 here, and certainly NOT me.

 

I do not wish to be labelled a "marxist" let alone be mentioned in the same sentence as Tatchell.

[Saintandy666]

Well in fairness all around the country people spent hours working for nothing for their local communities.

 

I don't think that is what people are objecting to. I think it was more the treatment. Unpaid work experience is fine, as long as you get something out of it and aren't treated like a dog. These people were picked up at 11pm, dropped off at 3am under the bridge and told to sleep there. Woken up a couple of hours later, and made to get undressed outside in the freezing cold rain. And were told if they complained, there would be no Olympic job for them. Of course this is all allegedly, probably just a bad-egg subcontractor. But if true, it needs to be properly investigated, and this particular subcontractor punished.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I don't think that is what people are objecting to. I think it was more the treatment. Unpaid work experience is fine, as long as you get something out of it and aren't treated like a dog. These people were picked up at 11pm, dropped off at 3am under the bridge and told to sleep there. Woken up a couple of hours later, and made to get undressed outside in the freezing cold rain. And were told if they complained, there would be no Olympic job for them. Of course this is all allegedly, probably just a bad-egg subcontractor. But if true, it needs to be properly investigated, and this particular subcontractor punished.

 

My experience of employing people is that it doesn't really work like that. I would suspect there is another side of the story.

[This Charming Man]

Badgerx16, were you one of those 20 odd Republicans protesting down by the river the other day? Well I say protesting, I mean standing there and being boo'd and abused by the thousands on the streets and then being forced to retreat and 'protest' out the way so they stopped getting so much abuse?

[Saintandy666]

My experience of employing people is that it doesn't really work like that. I would suspect there is another side of the story.

 

It's not employment though in the conventional sense. It's a one off event which was meant to act as work experience...(and I think to gain a qualification) for the unemployed. Though I suspect and hope you are right. Even if you are right, and there is more to it, if the story is true it's still appalling.

[Saintandy666]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18329050

[Jonnyboy]

I saw the Queen's little speech.

 

She really feels that us "subjects" are a totally different species to her lot.

[badgerx16]

Badgerx16, were you one of those 20 odd Republicans protesting down by the river the other day? Well I say protesting, I mean standing there and being boo'd and abused by the thousands on the streets and then being forced to retreat and 'protest' out the way so they stopped getting so much abuse?

 

No, were you ?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Opinion polls in the UK persistently give the monarchy at least two thirds popular support. This beats any political party in history. Only the death of Diana brought a brief hiccup, and monarchy still retained a majority. An ICM poll for the Guardian last month had 69 per cent backing the Queen, an all-time high. Meanwhile Mori put republicanism at just 13 per cent. Badger and his ilk are essentially as relevent as the wishy washy Lib Dems.

 

But a lot more relevant than UKIP eh?

 

Seriously though, in a way I think the Diana reaction actually did them well in the long run. It gave their PR machine a kick up the arse for one thing and is pretty slick.

[Verbal]

My experience of employing people is that it doesn't really work like that. I would suspect there is another side of the story.

 

I'm sure there is. But it's not coming from the company who pulled this pathetic little scam on the unemployed. It has 'profusely apologised'.

[badgerx16]

I do not wish to be labelled a "marxist" let alone be mentioned in the same sentence as Tatchell.

 

Nor do I, ( basically because it's untrue ), but as Dunce views anybody to the left of the grocer's daughter as a pinko commie subversive, it's something I've had to learn to tolerate. At least it distinguishes me from the fascist imperialist ****. ( That was deliberately typed as four asterisks so that you, dear reader, may substitute a four letter descriptive of your choice ).

[pap]

The best thing about having a monarchy is watching all the Royalists jump on threads like these and attempt to defend it.

[Thedelldays]

The best thing about having a monarchy is watching all the Royalists jump on threads like these and attempt to defend it.

 

There is no need to defend them. They will be around for as long as you and I are walking the earth

[pap]

There is no need to defend them. They will be around for as long as you and I are walking the earth

 

Barring the premature death of either of us, I'd lay money on it that Liz won't.

 

I hope to see the same fawners back on here saying what an inspiration Charles is after that happens.

[Verbal]

There is no need to defend them. They will be around for as long as you and I are walking the earth

 

So you think England has always had a monarch?

[scotty]

...Elton's voice is shot.

 

....must not post.......must not post.......must not post.......

[pap]

I do find the myriad of different terms for people who support the monarchy to be a bit redundant. Pro-royal, royalist, monarchist, etc.

 

Can we just dispense with all that nonsense and go for one word?

 

Kneeler.

 

Gemmel might even be able to find an icon for it.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I'm sure there is. But it's not coming from the company who pulled this pathetic little scam on the unemployed. It has 'profusely apologised'.

 

Well I am sure there will be repercussions for them.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I do find the myriad of different terms for people who support the monarchy to be a bit redundant. Pro-royal, royalist, monarchist, etc.

 

Can we just dispense with all that nonsense and go for one word?

 

Kneeler.

 

Gemmel might even be able to find an icon for it.

 

The word I would use for those that stayed at home, shunned their neighbours, did nothing to help their communities come together and missed out on all the fun is;

 

Chippy

[Verbal]

Well I am sure there will be repercussions for them.

 

Really? Why are you 'sure'?

[Verbal]

Pap, get with the programme. We've decided to unite under the banner 'Queen on a Bike' (TM Sergei Gots).

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Really? Why are you 'sure'?

 

Well already there have been significant PR repercussions.

[pap]

The word I would use for those that stayed at home, shunned their neighbours, did nothing to help their communities come together and missed out on all the fun is;

 

Chippy

 

I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy kneeling schedule to write this, kneeler.

 

However, I feel that you've gone wildly awry with your choice of word. It means so many things. People will get confused. Imagine someone going out for fish and chips and coming back with a kidnapped republican or a carpenter.

 

What definition of "chippy" are you using, Sergei? I'd stick to kneeling if I were you, mate. Damn sight easier than English language standardisation.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy kneeling schedule to write this, kneeler.

 

However, I feel that you've gone wildly awry with your choice of word. It means so many things. People will get confused. Imagine someone going out for fish and chips and coming back with a kidnapped republican or a carpenter.

 

What definition of "chippy" are you using, Sergei? I'd stick to kneeling if I were you, mate. Damn sight easier than English language standardisation.

 

Yes we saw so many people kneeling over the weekend yet there were plenty being chippy.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't have 'bitterness and resentment' towards the Monarchy, I couldn't care less about them - it's the sycophancy, hagiography, and fawning that surrounds them; 3 of the Queen's 4 children are divorced, the future 'Defender of the Faith' carried on with a married woman behind his wife's back, and the Duke of Edinburgh is 'good for a laugh', but if he was your or my Grandfather he would be shut away to avoid embarrassment, yet somehow they are all so 'wonderful' and an example to us all. ( Mind you, looking at that list, they probably are ! ).

It's the unaccountable facet of their influence, the idea that God gives them a validity that is above scrutiny, that I do not accept and feel that a republic would put right. What exactly does the Monarchy afford to GB that the French, Germans, or Americans lack due to their political structure ?

 

I have no problem with monarchists, but the triumphalist crowing and bleating, and claiming that republicans are somehow not allowed to describe themselves as British, is sheer b0ll0x.

 

 

Spot on.........

 

 

In any other walk of life Prince Phillip would be a considered a disgusting racist, and senile old fool. Prince Andrew would crawl back under the rock he came from. Even old Lizzies sister went round the world like some sort of slut groupie. The Queen must run the most dysfunctional family in the country, if it was some sink estate family, Dune would be up in arms about them. Yet we need to fawn and bow to them.

 

Perhaps the old fashioned monarchists amongst us enjoy being subjects. Why is Assad in Syria such a bad regime, when he’s only doing what our Royals did for hundreds of years? Is it the time difference, in 300 years time will Syrians be waving flags and bowing to his family, saying what an inspiration they are?

 

If you were setting up a nation now, you wouldn’t dream of putting 1 family as head of state, have a system where the oldest son inherits the role and you have to be of a certain religion. It may have been ok in medieval times, but surely we’ve all moved on from that?

[pap]

Ah, the EDL - brave defenders of the Jubilee.

 

They start on a load of anti-Jubilee protestors and then start doing Hitler salutes! That's what being English is all about

 

http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/22000

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Spot on.........

 

 

In any other walk of life Prince Phillip would be a considered a disgusting racist, and senile old fool. Prince Andrew would crawl back under the rock he came from. Even old Lizzies sister went round the world like some sort of slut groupie. The Queen must run the most dysfunctional family in the country, if it was some sink estate family, Dune would be up in arms about them. Yet we need to fawn and bow to them.

 

Perhaps the old fashioned monarchists amongst us enjoy being subjects. Why is Assad in Syria such a bad regime, when he’s only doing what our Royals did for hundreds of years? Is it the time difference, in 300 years time will Syrians be waving flags and bowing to his family, saying what an inspiration they are?

 

If you were setting up a nation now, you wouldn’t dream of putting 1 family as head of state, have a system where the oldest son inherits the role and you have to be of a certain religion. It may have been ok in medieval times, but surely we’ve all moved on from that?

 

but you do have bitterness and resentment. It is pretty evident in your post.

[Verbal]

but you do have bitterness and resentment. It is pretty evident in your post.

 

No its a different point of view - you know, one of those rights thingies that historically we wrestled from the monarchy.

[Lord Duckhunter]

but you do have bitterness and resentment. It is pretty evident in your post.

 

1. What do you think of her family and their morals

 

2. What do you think of the Syrian regime. If the regime last 200 years, will that make what they are doing now ok?

 

3. Do you think the first born son should be automatically be given a job, no matter what they do or whether they deserve it. How would you feel if your MP died and was automatically replaced by his/her son?

[pap]

No its a different point of view - you know, one of those rights thingies that historically we wrestled from the monarchy.

 

Sergei's vista is understandably limited on account of all the kneeling.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1. What do you think of her family and their morals

 

2. What do you think of the Syrian regime. If the regime last 200 years, will that make what they are doing now ok?

 

3. Do you think the first born son should be automatically be given a job, no matter what they do or whether they deserve it. How would you feel if your MP died and was automatically replaced by his/her son?

 

I think you take it all far too seriously. They are a thread that links us as a nation with our past. They are politically redundant.

 

Ask the Irish what they think of that well known Republican Cromwell.

[pap]

I think you take it all far too seriously. They are a thread that links us as a nation with our past. They are politically redundant.

 

Ask the Irish what they think of that well known Republican Cromwell.

 

Don't agree with this. First, there's a massive assumption that the Royals never exert any power.

 

Next, the existence of a hereditary monarchy hard-wires a lot of stuff into Britain. We can never really have a meritocracy or classless society when we venerate one family above all others just because they belong to that family. The Royal Family sits at the top of the class hierarchy. While they exist, so does the class system, so they can never be politically redundant.

 

As I've said before, I've no problem with Kings or Queens. Don't even have a problem with a King or Queen for life, as long as we pick the right one. Why the hell are we constraining ourselves along bloodlines when we could be choosing the absolute best Briton for the job?

 

People talk about having national treasures in our midst. I'd rather we picked one of those than just accepted the first qualifying heir.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

So you don't agree then that if the Queen used the power she has in theory in reality she would not be out on her ear.

 

There will always be somebody on top of the pile. Societies always have soem form of pecking order. It makes them function. Read Animal Farm.

 

Another pointless election.

 

We ahve popular monatchs and unpopular ones. That is how it goes.

[pap]

So you don't agree then that if the Queen used the power she has in theory in reality she would not be out on her ear.

 

There will always be somebody on top of the pile. Societies always have soem form of pecking order. It makes them function. Read Animal Farm.

 

Another pointless election.

 

We ahve popular monatchs and unpopular ones. That is how it goes.

 

The ongoing refrain of the 21st century kneeler, along with "it is the way it is".

 

I'm not sure that a typical election would be the right way to go about choosing a monarch, if I'm honest, especially if you intend for them to have the job for life. Not entirely what mechanism should be used, but I certainly wouldn't want party politics involved. A write-in campaign might be a good idea.

 

Better than "that is how it goes", anyway.

[dune]

Badgerx16, were you one of those 20 odd Republicans protesting down by the river the other day? Well I say protesting, I mean standing there and being boo'd and abused by the thousands on the streets and then being forced to retreat and 'protest' out the way so they stopped getting so much abuse?

 

Did you see a burger van in the vicinity?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The ongoing refrain of the 21st century kneeler, along with "it is the way it is".

 

I'm not sure that a typical election would be the right way to go about choosing a monarch, if I'm honest, especially if you intend for them to have the job for life. Not entirely what mechanism should be used, but I certainly wouldn't want party politics involved. A write-in campaign might be a good idea.

 

Better than "that is how it goes", anyway.

 

Pointless change to cater for the chippy. I am sure your write in campaign will be taken up by a large percentage of the electorate. When you have elected your Bruce Forsythe type candidate we can all have wonderful weekends like we have just had. We could have Islay St Clare in some capacity and street parties with games like Play your Cards Right.

 

The country needs keyboard revoltionaries like you that enhance our lives so much with change that will make such a difference to our citizens quality of life.

[pap]

Pointless change to cater for the chippy. I am sure your write in campaign will be taken up by a large percentage of the electorate. When you have elected your Bruce Forsythe type candidate we can all have wonderful weekends like we have just had. We could have Islay St Clare in some capacity and street parties with games like Play your Cards Right.

 

The country needs keyboard revoltionaries like you that enhance our lives so much with change that will make such a difference to our citizens quality of life.

 

Anyone can throw a worst case scenario about and attempt to present it as an argument, immediately treating the notion as insoluble. Others would look at that worst case scenario and consider how it would be prevented.

 

The simple fact is that you do not want to consider changing the selection of the monarch, so you whip out your Brucey gag, tag on a keyboard revolutionary insult and consider it a job well done.

 

You did the same thing with Cromwell and Ireland earlier on, as if any dissolution of the monarchy would result in the republican Lord Protector going on a nobility-sponsored land grab.

 

It's your right to do that, just as it's my right to take the opinions of kneelers significantly less seriously when it comes to matters of the monarchy, especially when they're ducking under any of the counter-points too.

 

I've voiced my objections, I've tried to meet you halfway; let you keep your pomp, circumstance and kings and queens while suggesting some consideration of lifetime conduct and contribution to Britain into the selection process.

 

I like the idea of a write-in campaign because it gives an opportunity to get a shortlist without anyone "running for King/Queen". Of course there would be some whittling down of frivolous candidates and that would be fine, provided that the selection committee is transparent about their reasons.

 

Once you get down to a list of serious candidates, put it to a public vote, and hold run-off elections until someone has an overall majority. Now we're off the worst-case scenario, can you tell me why that would be any worse than what we do now?