Another international goalie?...

[david in sweden]

..with the sudden media exposure of a (supposed) Saints offer for Butland, (yet to make his league debut), but still getting into the England squad, I thought back a bit and came up with a typical " pub quiz question ".

 

Which League clubs have had goalies who represented the FIVE home countries? ...surprisingly SAINTS would be one of the answers.

 

The best known of course was Peter Shilton (with 49 apps. during his Saints career, he remains our most capped England player).

a little later we had Tim Flowers who managed one cap with SFC in 1993 before his record-breaking transfer to Blackburn.

 

As for the others; Ian Black was capped for Scotland in 1948, Hugh Kelly for Northern Ireland in 1950, Fred Kiernan for Eire in 1951/52, and Welshman Paul Jones was capped several dozen times (from 1997 onwards).

 

In addition to which we had Bruce Grobbelaar picking up a few caps for Zimbabwe during his brief stay in the mid 1990's and the superb Antti Niemi for Finland (signed 2002) who would later become their most-capped goalkeeper.

 

It may be a long time before we see Butland as the regular England keeper, (even if he does sign for Saints - which is big ?)..but time will tell.

Edited 2 June, 2012 by david in sweden

[sammysaint]

Niemi signed 1992, jesus had tow wait 10 years for his 1st team debut.

[david in sweden]

Niemi signed 1992, jesus had tow wait 10 years for his 1st team debut.

 

OK you know what I mean ..A bit of brain fade there...THX I've corrected it now.

[Matthew Le God]

Butland, (yet to make his league debut)

 

He has made his league debut.

[SNSUN]

Did Alan Blayney get a NI cap whilst here?

[jawillwill]

You know, these pub quiz threads don't really work if you give away the answer in the opening post.

 

I've got a question for you all:

Which former Saints player will be making his full international debut for England at Wembley tonight? The answer is Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

[pingwing]

Fred Kiernan for Eire in 1951/52

 

Eire is the Irish name for the whole island, Fred Kiernan represented the Republic of Ireland in international football...

[david in sweden]

You know, these pub quiz threads don't really work if you give away the answer in the opening post.[/u].

 

 

I fully appreciate that, but the last time I did one of those...some people got a bit stroppy when I didn't confirm the answer for 24 hours.

[david in sweden]

Eire is the Irish name for the whole island, Fred Kiernan represented the Republic of Ireland in international football...

 

TNBX I stand corrected.

[david in sweden]

He has made his league debut.

 

yes I suppose he has.

I was thinking of his time at Birmingham, 0 games - but of course his loan to Cheltenham counts - doesn't it - even if it was in L2.

[VectisSaint]

Did Alan Blayney get a NI cap whilst here?

No, made his debut in the summer after he left us in 2006 when he was playing for Doncaster. Maik Taylor also played for N Ireland but also after he left us.

[JustMike]

..with the sudden media exposure of a (supposed) Saints offer for Butland, (yet to make his league debut), but still getting into the England squad, I thought back a bit and came up with a typical " pub quiz question ".

 

Which League clubs have had goalies who represented the FIVE home countries? ...surprisingly SAINTS would be one of the answers.

 

The best known of course was Peter Shilton (with 49 apps. during his Saints career, he remains our most capped England player).

a little later we had Tim Flowers who managed one cap with SFC in 1993 before his record-breaking transfer to Blackburn.

 

As for the others; Ian Black was capped for Scotland in 1948, Hugh Kelly for Northern Ireland in 1950, Fred Kiernan for Eire in 1951/52, and Welshman Paul Jones was capped several dozen times (from 1997 onwards).

 

In addition to which we had Bruce Grobbelaar picking up a few caps for Zimbabwe during his brief stay in the mid 1990's and the superb Antti Niemi for Finland (signed 2002) who would later become their most-capped goalkeeper.

 

It may be a long time before we see Butland as the regular England keeper, (even if he does sign for Saints - which is big ?)..but time will tell.

 

aargghhh stop the BOLD already!!

[Lighthouse]

..with the sudden media exposure of a (supposed) Saints offer for Butland, (yet to make his league debut), but still getting into the England squad, I thought back a bit and came up with a typical " pub quiz question ".

 

Which League clubs have had goalies who represented the FIVE home countries? ...surprisingly SAINTS would be one of the answers.

 

The best known of course was Peter Shilton (with 49 apps. during his Saints career, he remains our most capped England player).

a little later we had Tim Flowers who managed one cap with SFC in 1993 before his record-breaking transfer to Blackburn.

 

As for the others; Ian Black was capped for Scotland in 1948, Hugh Kelly for Northern Ireland in 1950, Fred Kiernan for Eire in 1951/52, and Welshman Paul Jones was capped several dozen times (from 1997 onwards).

 

In addition to which we had Bruce Grobbelaar picking up a few caps for Zimbabwe during his brief stay in the mid 1990's and the superb Antti Niemi for Finland (signed 2002) who would later become their most-capped goalkeeper.

 

It may be a long time before we see Butland as the regular England keeper, (even if he does sign for Saints - which is big ?)..but time will tell.

 

Interesting

[Fan The Flames]

Eire is the Irish name for the whole island, Fred Kiernan represented the Republic of Ireland in international football...

 

Eire is the irish for Ireland, so he did play for Eire. Just like the Spanish playing for Espana.

[Badger]

Was Katalinic a full international (Yugoslavia) , even if he didn't play for them whilst with us ?

[david in sweden]

Was Katalinic a full international (Yugoslavia) , even if he didn't play for them whilst with us ?

 

Ivan Katalinic was capped 13 times for the (then) Yugoslavia national side, in the late 1970's. (but not after that ). Today he has Croatian citizenship.

 

He joined Saints in 1980 and was first choice keeper for a couple of seasons before Lawrie McMenemey signed another guy called ..Peter Shilton.

[david in sweden]

Eire is the irish for Ireland, so he did play for Eire. Just like the Spanish playing for Espana.

 

 

Mmm....thanks for the clarification Fan the Flames, I didn't think I was that wrong.

[capitalsaint]

Lighthouse gets the points!

[david in sweden]

aargghhh stop the BOLD already!!

 

I really don't do it to annoy... but many people like to speed-read and alternative forms of highlighting were created just to help scan pages quicker.

It's just the same for those people who like to use silly "face" symbols , or select different colours. B I U

 

If it still annoys you? - my suggestion is ignore the post and look at something else. There are other topics to complain about on here - shouldn't be hard.

[The9]

As there aren't "five" home countries this question is difficult to answer.

[david in sweden]

As there aren't "five" home countries this question is difficult to answer.

 

its purely semantics The 9........I think most people understood what I meant, and you may have offended a lot of Irish contributors.

 

How would you describe them? We can't say British (just because the geographical term is The British Isles), and we don't seem to mind playing the Republic at Rugby ...and even Cricket (where I think they beat us once - didn't they?).

[Steel City Saint]

The Republic do not play rugby or cricket...those teams are a united Ireland team ie. north and south involved.

[pingwing]

Eire is the irish for Ireland, so he did play for Eire. Just like the Spanish playing for Espana.

 

No because there are two teams in Ireland.... The distinction is required before nordy-jones' or the southerners get annoyed at the assumption they are the same. The name Eire only works in Irish, we are communicating in English and look very stupid using a word that doesn't translate to who we mean. It's is more comparable to calling the Scottish national team the "British" national team. We know that makes no sense so referring to the Republics team as the full (and only) Irish team with the word Eire is just silly.

[Fan The Flames]

No because there are two teams in Ireland.... The distinction is required before nordy-jones' or the southerners get annoyed at the assumption they are the same. The name Eire only works in Irish, we are communicating in English and look very stupid using a word that doesn't translate to who we mean. It's is more comparable to calling the Scottish national team the "British" national team. We know that makes no sense so referring to the Republics team as the full (and only) Irish team with the word Eire is just silly.

 

Eire doesn't mean the landmass of the island of Ireland, it is simply the Irish word for Ireland. Look at the Irish stamps or passport and emblazed across them is the word Eire. There are two countries (the rights and wrongs of it aside) on the island of Ireland; Ireland and Northern Ireland. The fact that Ireland's formal name is the Republic of Ireland, means nothing we don't talk about the French Republic, the Kingdom of Spain or the Federal Republic of Germany.

[david in sweden]

it's truly amazing....I really didn't mean this to become a battle for the lexicologists on the site, but some people seem to just wait for an incorrect spelling, or a wrongly placed comma before launching into a tirade of abuse.

I'm fairly sure most people must have understood the point I was trying to make, but if you still want to fight it out....then have a go at the authors of In That Number (if you dare)...who describe Tommy Traynor as having won eight Eire caps, whilst others players like Tony Byrne, Alan McLoughlin, Austin Hayes and Rory Delap are varyingly described as having caps for Ireland, and the Republic.

 

I was unaware that Ireland play a united side in Rugby and Cricket, but I can only applaud that as a major breakthrough... having recalled a time when

many people would not have dared set foot across the border - let alone cheered players in the same team.

[The9]

its purely semantics The 9........I think most people understood what I meant, and you may have offended a lot of Irish contributors.

 

How would you describe them? We can't say British (just because the geographical term is The British Isles), and we don't seem to mind playing the Republic at Rugby ...and even Cricket (where I think they beat us once - didn't they?).

 

I wouldn't include them in the categorisation in the first place.

 

Can we have some stats about English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish and French players, it's just as relevant a comparison.

 

I also think you'd be more likely to offend Irish contributors from the Republic by lumping them in with the UK than by recognising the Republic's independence from 90-odd years ago.

Edited 5 June, 2012 by The9

[The9]

it's truly amazing....I really didn't mean this to become a battle for the lexicologists on the site, but some people seem to just wait for an incorrect spelling, or a wrongly placed comma before launching into a tirade of abuse.

I'm fairly sure most people must have understood the point I was trying to make, but if you still want to fight it out....then have a go at the authors of In That Number (if you dare)...who describe Tommy Traynor as having won eight Eire caps, whilst others players like Tony Byrne, Alan McLoughlin, Austin Hayes and Rory Delap are varyingly described as having caps for Ireland, and the Republic.

 

I was unaware that Ireland play a united side in Rugby and Cricket, but I can only applaud that as a major breakthrough... having recalled a time when

many people would not have dared set foot across the border - let alone cheered players in the same team.

 

I think you're missing the point. Ireland and "The Republic" (in context of Ireland) are all perfectly legitimate ways to describe the Republic of Ireland and there's no issue with In That Number using that terminology to refer to Republic of Ireland internationals. Eire is a little more woolly because it refers to a united Ireland, as pointed out already, but that's not even my issue with it.

 

What's strange is your choice to describe the Republic of Ireland as a "home nation" and include their internationals in the answer. In football terms there have always been 4 "home nations", which for the best part of 100 years haven't included the Irish Republic. That area WAS included prior to Irish partition because that area of Ireland WAS then part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (as opposed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland since 1922). But even then there were only 4 home nations, administered by the (English) FA, the Scottish FA, the FA of Wales and the (now Northern) Irish FA, and it hasn't been the case since 1921.

 

There's no reason to include a separate sovereign state as part of this discussion, and caps handed out by the FAI (formed following Irish partition in 1922) are completely irrelevant to the "home nations". As I stated above, it's as relevant as adding France to the discussion, which also previously had a strong link to the English/British crown dating back to the 1600s but is not a "home nation" by any modern measure.

 

Also, the reason there is a united team for rugby is because they were never segregated in the first place. It's not a breakthrough, there was still only one team for rugby even when Belfast was basically a religious war zone in the 70s and 80s.

 

I honestly don't know anyone else who would refer to the Republic of Ireland as a "home nation", which renders the question a tad jarring.

Edited 5 June, 2012 by The9

[Fan The Flames]

Eire is a little more woolly because it refers to a united Ireland

 

FFS no it doesn't. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Eire

[westofshannonsaint]

If anyone is really interested do a search for Green Is The Colour on the RTE player. It's an interesting documentary about the history of football in Ireland.

 

Interestingly the splitting of North and South happened prior to the birth of the Free State. The end of episode 1 deals with this and the naming issue from about 50 minutes.

[westofshannonsaint]

Sorry, just re watching the naming issue is the start of ep2.

 

Another pub quiz question, What colour did Ireland originally play in?

 

- the answer is at the start(ish) of ep1.

[westofshannonsaint]

oh & Who was the first country to beat England in England?

 

That's my 3 free posts used up, watch something happen in the next 24 hours - Mods, any chance or giving registered users?

[The9]

FFS no it doesn't. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Eire

 

LOL, I only amended it based on what had already been written, my understanding was that it just meant Ireland in "irish". Anyway, nice to know the other 150 things I posted were correct, managing by exception.

[patred44]

..with the sudden media exposure of a (supposed) Saints offer for Butland, (yet to make his league debut), but still getting into the England squad, I thought back a bit and came up with a typical " pub quiz question ".

 

Which League clubs have had goalies who represented the FIVE home countries? ...surprisingly SAINTS would be one of the answers.

 

The best known of course was Peter Shilton (with 49 apps. during his Saints career, he remains our most capped England player).

a little later we had Tim Flowers who managed one cap with SFC in 1993 before his record-breaking transfer to Blackburn.

 

As for the others; Ian Black was capped for Scotland in 1948, Hugh Kelly for Northern Ireland in 1950, Fred Kiernan for Eire in 1951/52, and Welshman Paul Jones was capped several dozen times (from 1997 onwards).

 

In addition to which we had Bruce Grobbelaar picking up a few caps for Zimbabwe during his brief stay in the mid 1990's and the superb Antti Niemi for Finland (signed 2002) who would later become their most-capped goalkeeper.

 

It may be a long time before we see Butland as the regular England keeper, (even if he does sign for Saints - which is big ?)..but time will tell.

 

 

So you forgot Campbell Forsyth... TUT TUT...

 

Signed by Ted Bates in 1965,played 4 times for Scotland..

Englands Chris Woods as well

Edited 5 June, 2012 by patred44

[The9]

If anyone is really interested do a search for Green Is The Colour on the RTE player. It's an interesting documentary about the history of football in Ireland.

 

Interestingly the splitting of North and South happened prior to the birth of the Free State. The end of episode 1 deals with this and the naming issue from about 50 minutes.

 

I'd always wondered why the (N)IFA was the IFA and the FAI wasn't the IFA until fairly recently - but the week the Euros start is not the time to be committing to this kind of detail!

 

So anyway, 5th home country?

Edited 5 June, 2012 by The9

[Bad Wolf]

Has Bart never played for Poland?

[david in sweden]

So you forgot Campbell Forsyth... TUT TUT...

Signed by Ted Bates in 1965,played 4 times for Scotland.. Englands Chris Woods as well

 

My original post - seems like a long time ago now...was only about players who won caps whilst they were on the books.

and I didn't forget Campbell Forsyth, and incidentally I saw him play his first game for Saints, but I believe that his 4 caps were won with his prev. club (Kilmarnock) and unless I'm mistaken, he didn't win any caps after he joined Saints.

likwise I don't think that Chris Woods was awarded any England caps during the short period he was with Saints.

[david in sweden]

to the 9 --- extremely impressive diatribe on my seemingly dubious use of the term Eire in #1, did you have all that history in your head, or did you have to look it up? ..My seemingly " ill-judged " wording reflected my personal view that as so many players from the Republic of Ireland (or at least those who may have Irish-born grandparents)....do actually play in the English Leagues, I don't regard them as foreigners in the same was the Dutch or Brazilians, not to mention the French, but of course you'll have to re-write quite a few history books if you're going to claim that Calais should still be regarded as an English colony?... Queen Mary gave up on that one in 1558.

 

My only other question is ....when did you last start a thread?, or do you just enjoy picking mistakes in the contributions of others?..and by the way ...

Congratulations ..!..you are now up to 11583 posts.. but you'll have a lot of catching up top do to overtake the dell days.

[patred44]

My original post - seems like a long time ago now...was only about players who won caps whilst they were on the books.

and I didn't forget Campbell Forsyth, and incidentally I saw him play his first game for Saints, but I believe that his 4 caps were won with his prev. club (Kilmarnock) and unless I'm mistaken, he didn't win any caps after he joined Saints.

likwise I don't think that Chris Woods was awarded any England caps during the short period he was with Saints.

 

Ah, I understand now.

As an interesting side to that here is a report on Campbells last game for Scotland.. note the style of football reporting in them days, and that our Terry was playing..

 

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/images/1964/1964041102.htm

[david in sweden]

Ah, I understand now.

As an interesting side to that here is a report on Campbells last game for Scotland.. note the style of football reporting in them days, and that our Terry was playing..

 

http://www.londonhearts.com/scores/images/1964/1964041102.htm

 

very interesting Patred 44,

The Scottish side looked pretty good with the talented John White and the young Denis Law and a tough midfield ; Baxter, McNeill and Grieg.

 

Two years before the 1966 World Cup and there were a few changes after this game. Here we see...No Stiles, or Jack Charlton yet.

Geoff Hurst would later come in for Byrne at CF (thank goodness he did)... and there no place for the elegant passing game of George Eastham,

but Alf Ramsey chose Martin Peters instead. ¨

Terry Paine played in the opening Qual. WC game as I recall, but got concussed early on and Ramsey was afraid to use him afterwards in case he hadn't recovered and chose ....Alan Ball instead...the rest, as they say ..is history.

Edited 7 June, 2012 by david in sweden