Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6m I fecking hope not What a waste if true If that is what our scouting network value him at then id trust them more than you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 If we're really ready to throw £5 - 6m at skint clubs for 19 year-olds with no league experience beyond L2 at least it suggests there's money to be spent. Wouldn't pay that price though, if we spend £5-6m on a 'keeper it should be for one ready to do the business from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I haven't seen him play at all... And that's exactly the reason why £6m seems ridiculous! Haha! Too true. A helluva lot of money for a player who's played no higher than League 2 domestically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 If that is what our scouting network value him at then id trust them more than you Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 We could easily get Ben foster for that sort of money. And he could be our keeper for the next 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Six million for a teenage keeper with only L2 experience is simple lunacy. That said, I am guessing it's probably something two million up front and only six if we stay up and he gets 10 caps for England. Chances are we are negotiating the payment plan, Brum probably leaking the refusal to make them look strong. Either way I am not sure we should be spending that on potential in our first season back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 So the Don is on the case then. Next offer will be 5mil & a horses head Excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Cheers No offence. But im sure our scouts are in a better position to give a view of him than yourself and the highlights of him and what ever live action you may have seen him play. Also he must have some talent to get into the England squad. Look at Sczeny at Arsenal a season at Brentford and then 1st team at Arsenal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 We could easily get Ben foster for that sort of money. And he could be our keeper for the next 8 years Butland could be our keeper for the next 8 years and he'd still only be 27 and retain a large amount of sell on value. Foster wouldn't as he'd be 37. I haven't seen Butland play but as Dazza82 implied, our scouts haven't got much wrong in the last 3 years. The England setup certainly rate him, so at least that is encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 The england set up rate green even more. More so then kelvin. Yet he was not wanted by this place when suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 No offence. But im sure our scouts are in a better position to give a view of him than yourself and the highlights of him and what ever live action you may have seen him play. Also he must have some talent to get into the England squad. Look at Sczeny at Arsenal a season at Brentford and then 1st team at Arsenal Szczesny was on loan at Brenford from Arsenal in the first place, so not quite the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 The england set up rate green even more. More so then kelvin. Yet he was not wanted by this place when suggested And they rate Ruddy more too. We could lob six mil at Norwich and they'd sell. (Not saying we should do that but my point is six million is tons for a keeper) Lets see what happens but seems like over spending to me. *and yes, MLG, I know he's just signed a new contract. P i ss off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Szczesny was on loan at Brenford from Arsenal in the first place, so not quite the same thing. Right and Butland was on loan at Cheltenham from Birmingham, so id say it is fairly similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 And they rate Luddy more too. We could lob six mil at Norwich and they'd sell. (Not saying we should do that but my point is six million is tons for a keeper) Lets see what happens but seems like over spending to me. It can only be labelled overspending if you've seen him play. The Saints scouts have seen him play and if this report is correct, they feel a £6m fee is justified. They haven't got much wrong in the last 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Mark Littlewood @MarkJLittlewood If #bcfc have really turned down a £6m offer from #saintsfc for Butland, then both Brum and Saints are utterly mad. lol Perhaps it was more like a 1 mil offer with add ons. One to watch methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6m is insane for him, especially when you can get the Rangers GK for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6M seems a lot, but who knows, INWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Lets see what happens but seems like over spending to me. Didnt most people say that about Chamberlain going to Arsenal aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Wouldn't pay that price though, if we spend £5-6m on a 'keeper it should be for one ready to do the business from the get-go. We already have a keeper ready and able to do the business from the get-go. What we need is a very good backup with long term potential ready to step up if needed and not prone to a fit of the colly-wobbles when he gets a chance. Butland seems to fit the bill if our scouts are good (not forgetting that our manager is an ex-GK), although like many others I can't say for sure that I have ever seen him play (never went out of my way to watch Cheltenham). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6m is insane for him, especially when you can get the Rangers GK for free. Very good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 It can only be labelled overspending if you've seen him play. The Saints scouts have seen him play and if this report is correct, they feel a £6m fee is justified. They haven't got much wrong in the last 3 years. Don't care. Football forum. I give opinions. Six million is a lot of money for a teenage keeper full stop. Don't need to have seen him play to give that opinion. Say If we offered fifteen million for a sixteen year old winger - overspending, don't need to have seen him play. As I have already said I doubt it is six million in reality, probably seriously staggered. Which would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Really can't imagine we'd bid £6million for him. Not as an opening offer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Very good point Have you seen him play? How do you know our scouts havent watched them both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Didnt most people say that about Chamberlain going to Arsenal aswell No. And we haven't been in the CL every season for 15 years. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Moneyball theory ? Keepers are usually dirt cheap, but consider how many points a good keeper can win in a season compared to a bad one. If we think we've got a really good one who is available (irrespective of the comments, our scouts are usually decent at this), £6m is still Premier League peanuts compared to the cost of strikers who may only play 50% of the time and think how much you'd have to pay to get a striker that makes as much difference to the score as a keeper. Maybe we're just looking at it wrongly. Oh, and who was it that was saying we'd spent the budget on Rodriguez ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I think Birmingham need to remember that although he was in the England squad, he was only there because the original 3rd choice keeper broke his finger! I think they are getting ahead of themselves with regards to his current value. I would've said that currently, he's worth about 2-3m at most due to League experience and played for Eng youth teams. No more. But because he now has 'Called up to England Euro 2012 Squad' on his CV, his price has rocketed which i think is pathetic. Whatever happens, I trust Nige, NC and the scouts to make the right decision. We mustn't forget, AOC was a League 1 player with just over 3/4 of a seasons experience and he ended up going for £15m so this could be a bit of a bargain in the grand scheme of things similar to the Jay Rodriguez deal. Will be intrigued to see how this one pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 No. And we haven't been in the CL every season for 15 years. Try harder. I think you find alot of people did, i dont mean people on here i mean in general! What has CL for last 15 years got to do with my comment? Try harder for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I think you find alot of people did, i dont mean people on here i mean in general! What has CL for last 15 years got to do with my comment? Try harder for what? Arsenal have more money than we do. If we start spending on potential like Arsenal do then we are overspending on potential because we are not Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Arsenal have more money than we do. If we start spending on potential like Arsenal do then we are overspending on potential because we are not Arsenal. We have just got into the prem debt free! Surely overspending is overspending regardless of how much money anyone has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Moneyball theory ? Keepers are usually dirt cheap, but consider how many points a good keeper can win in a season compared to a bad one. If we think we've got a really good one who is available (irrespective of the comments, our scouts are usually decent at this), £6m is still Premier League peanuts compared to the cost of strikers who may only play 50% of the time and think how much you'd have to pay to get a striker that makes as much difference to the score as a keeper. Maybe we're just looking at it wrongly. Oh, and who was it that was saying we'd spent the budget on Rodriguez ? This! £6M does seem a lot for somebody of Butland's experience but he could well become the most expensive keeper in the country in 3/4 years time. Also, if true, it does suggest our transfer budget is considerably more than most thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 It's probably £2m up front plus another sum if he makes x number of appearances for Saints plus another payment if he plays so many times for England. May just be a matter of negotiating how the £6m is paid. £6m all at once would be lunacy unless NC has a given Adkins a larger transfer budget than we realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Seems a bit reckless when we could get Allan MacGregor for nothing in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Arsenal have more money than we do. If we start spending on potential like Arsenal do then we are overspending on potential because we are not Arsenal. Also if arsenal bid 6m for him now would that not be too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I'd like us tosign Butland, depending on how the dealis structured then £4-5M might be in order.But I wonder if this is a good value deal when compared tothe possibility of signing Forster for £2m . Also, wonder how much the Dutch U21 from PSV might cost ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Also if arsenal bid 6m for him now would that not be too much? No. Would be fine for them. They have money and squad and its not their first season back. My point is I don't think we should be spending that much on a kid. Anyway, it will be something like two mil up front I guess which is fine for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 No. Would be fine for them. My point is I don't think we should be spending that much on a kid. Anyway, it will be something like two mil up front I guess which is fine for us. Surely overspending is overspending regardless of who you are. Yeah i agree about fee and thats why it has been rejected as they want more up front, which i believe we will do and get our target! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Surely overspending is overspending regardless of who you are. Yeah i agree about fee and thats why it has been rejected as they want more up front, which i believe we will do and get our target! Do you thing Pompey spending £6m is the same as man city spending £6m Which one is the over spending club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 (edited) Arsenal have more money than we do. If we start spending on potential like Arsenal do then we are overspending on potential because we are not Arsenal. Also if arsenal bid 6m for him now would that not be too much? No. Would be fine for them. They have money and squad and its not their first season back. None of us know the full extents as to the resources currently behind Saints. Staplewood redevelopment, debt free, the Liebherr family background, record signing and big money bids, early stadium redevelopment plans are all indicators that significant money is behind the club. No, I'm not saying we are richer than Arsenal, but if Cortese thinks the club can afford to spend £6m on Butland, what has he done to make us doubt his or his scouts/management/coaching team's opinion? Edited 27 June, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Surely overspending is overspending regardless of who you are. Yeah i agree about fee and thats why it has been rejected as they want more up front, which i believe we will do and get our target! Well no. Six million for Man City is not overspending, they have the backing and CL income too. For Yeovil fifty grand might just be. And so on back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 None of us know the full extents as to the resources currently behind Saints. Staplewood redevelopment, debt free, the Liebherr family background, record signing and big money bids, early stadium redevelopment plans are or indicators that significant money is behind the club. No, I'm not saying we are richer than Arsenal, but if Cortese thinks the club can afford to spend £6m on Butland, what has he done to make us doubt his or his scouts/management/coaching team's opinion? I really don't care what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6 mill for Butland or McGregor for free or Forster for £2 mill. The latter both with much more top class experience (well, SPL anyway). Thing is would we spend £6 mill on Butland and then make him Kelvin's back up? If it's true we're willing to spend big on him, surely he'd be coming in as first choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Do you thing Pompey spending £6m is the same as man city spending £6m Which one is the over spending club? Depends who the player is, if it is Messi then neither but if its some non league player then both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Do you thing Pompey spending £6m is the same as man city spending £6m Which one is the over spending club? Neither because Citeh can afford it and Pompey will just dip into their tax kitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 6mill isn't that much for what will be the next England keeper! It really does not matter what level he has played at. You have to start somewhere don't you? And it isn't always out of one of the top clubs academies. It will be about 3 million with add ons for Caps etc. The buzz around this kid within the football industry is massive. You DO NOT get called up to the england squad unless you have "it". When you're around families of footballers and get glimpses of how things are done behind the scenes. It really is breath taking. Its a completely different world. Really? There were plenty on this forum suggesting that, in the case of Rob Green, his call up for England was pretty much irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 £6 mill for Butland or McGregor for free or Forster for £2 mill. The latter both with much more top class experience (well' date=' SPL anyway). Thing is would we spend £6 mill on Butland and then make him Kelvin's back up? If it's true we're willing to spend big on him, surely he'd be coming in as first choice?[/quote'] At the figures talked about you'd have to think he would be the first choice from the start. It's not impossible for a GK to be that good at such an age. Courtois is a similar age and by all accounts has been great for Atletico Madrid, De Gea, although he has been dropped a couple of times is still the Man U's first choice GK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 We're being connected with Forster at Newcastle. £2-3m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Don't care. Football forum. I give opinions. Six million is a lot of money for a teenage keeper full stop. Don't need to have seen him play to give that opinion. Say If we offered fifteen million for a sixteen year old winger - overspending, don't need to have seen him play. As I have already said I doubt it is six million in reality, probably seriously staggered. Which would be fine. To be frank, you don't need to know anything about anything to give an opinion. On the other hand knowledge gives some validity to the opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_DB Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 There's two types of overspending: - Overvaluing the player - Spending beyond the club's means or budget If Saints bought Titus Bramble for £7m, this is something the club can afford but Titus Bramble is not worth £7m so we are overspending on Titus Bramble.* If Saints somehow rocked up and bought Ronaldo for 30m that would be a bargain for the player but is something the club cannot afford (and bargain wages for Ronaldo would be breaking the wage structure) and would be overspending. Any club can overspend on a player, but the bigger the club, the less likely to overspend in the latter way. *I am in no way suggesting we should or will sign Titus Bramble, I am not ITK and haven't seen him house hunting in Winchester or milling around at some hotel in Lyndhurst. He is merely the worst signing I could think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_DB Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 There's two types of overspending: - Overvaluing the player - Spending beyond the club's means or budget If Saints bought Titus Bramble for £7m, this is something the club can afford but Titus Bramble is not worth £7m so we are overspending on Titus Bramble.* If Saints somehow rocked up and bought Ronaldo for 30m that would be a bargain for the player but is something the club cannot afford (and bargain wages for Ronaldo would be breaking the wage structure) and would be overspending. Any club can overspend on a player, but the bigger the club, the less likely to overspend in the latter way. *I am in no way suggesting we should or will sign Titus Bramble, I am not ITK and haven't seen him house hunting in Winchester or milling around at some hotel in Lyndhurst. He is merely the worst signing I could think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patred44 Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 (edited) to put this into prospective.. Jack Butland is no better at 19 than Joe Lewis was at the same age. Lewis too had represented England at all age levels, save at first team level, and he had as much league experience albeit at a tad higher level. He was being touted as the next England No1.. Peterborough managed to get him from Norwich for what was then an enormous fee of £300k. 4 years ago I know. Now Joe has joined Cardiff City on a free. Edited 28 June, 2012 by patred44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now