Ireland vote "Yes" to EU financial treaty

[alpine_saint]

Oh, the irony........

[scotty]

...like it makes any difference....

 

and in any case, if they'd got it "wrong" they would have just been told to do it again until they got it right. Like last time. And the time before.

[dune]

Well they are that used to be ruled given centuries of subservience that it's hardly surprising.

[alpine_saint]

Think of all those British Prime Ministers, going back to ancient times of yore, who thought the Irish question was all about sectarianism, civil rights and social justice, when all along they were simply not offering enough in regional development subsidies....

 

I despised the IRA, but its amusing to discover their "cause" has a price........

[Thedelldays]

Think of all those British Prime Ministers, going back to ancient times of yore, who thought the Irish question was all about sectarianism, civil rights and social justice, when all along they were simply not offering enough in regional development subsidies....

 

I despised the IRA, but its amusing to discover their "cause" has a price........

makes you wonder if the IRA will now start a reign of bombings in brussels and germany

[pap]

Just back from Northern Ireland and had a chance to talk to a couple of Catholics about Sinn Fein, the political wing that sprouted out of the IRA. Chiefly, I was interested in their politics. The response I got was that they don't really have any and conduct populist opposition, playing to people's concerns, even if that means adopting opposite policies either side of the border.

 

In the Republic, they've increased their vote share by playing the anti-austerity card. In the North of Ireland, they're cutting public services.

 

This piece by the Irish Independent is particularly damning.

 

Sinn Fein: Smoke and mirrors

[Saintandy666]

Makes me laugh how all the UKIP types which bang on and on about the importance of a referendum pass scorn at this referendum result.

 

Oh, and for it is worth I support an in/out referendum on the EU, just once the financial crisis is over.

[Thedelldays]

Makes me laugh how all the UKIP types which bang on and on about the importance of a referendum pass scorn at this referendum result.

 

Oh, and for it is worth I support an in/out referendum on the EU, just once the financial crisis is over.

who are these people?

[Saintandy666]

who are these people?

 

Nigel Farage for one. On his Facebook account tonight.

[dune]

Nigel Farage for one. On his Facebook account tonight.

 

Does your hero aka Chris Huhne have anything to say after being charged?

[Saintandy666]

Does your hero aka Chris Huhne have anything to say after being charged?

 

Chris Huhne isn't my hero. If he's guilty, then he is should resign immediately and is an idiot. Innocent until proven guilty though, my friend.

[dune]

Chris Huhne isn't my hero. If he's guilty, then he is should resign immediately and is an idiot. Innocent until proven guilty though, my friend.

 

Who is your hero Andy - the hilarious Sarah Teather perhaps?

 

 

Or maybe the charismatic Simon Hughes?

 

[Saintandy666]

Who is your hero Andy - the hilarious Sarah Teather perhaps?

 

 

Or maybe the charismatic Simon Hughes?

 

 

I like Simon Hughes. He usually talks well, and carries out his politics sensibly as well. As for Sarah Teather... oh dear. I'm sure she is a wonderful Children's minister, but she has presentation problems.

 

I like Charles Kennedy. Nice distracting from my original post though.

Edited 2 June, 2012 by Saintandy666

[Lord Duckhunter]

I like Simon Hughes. He usually talks well, and carries out his politics sensibly as well.

 

I like Charles Kennedy. Nice distracting from my original post though.

 

Simon Hughes ran one of the most disgusting homophobic by election campaigns ever. It was also one of the most hypercritical, because he later came out as a sausage jockey himself (after lieing about it, at first).

 

Charles Kennedy, good one. I like Oliver Reed, but I wouldn't want him leading a major political party.

 

How can anyone praise Lib/Dems on a thread about Europe. This is the party, that not only wanted the UK to join the Euro, but still wants us to join.After all that's gone on,they still want us to join. Charlie Kennedy believeing that, I can understand, but most of them believe it when they're sober........

[melmacian_saint]

Any kind of election/referendum in the Eurozone is just smoke.

 

The decisions are taken by Brussels. Even if Ireland said "no", a Lisbon treaty version 2.0 would come up and dump a massive brick on any poll result. As it probably will if other countries do the same and say "no".

[dune]

I like Simon Hughes. He usually talks well, and carries out his politics sensibly as well. As for Sarah Teather... oh dear. I'm sure she is a wonderful Children's minister, but she has presentation problems.

 

I like Charles Kennedy. Nice distracting from my original post though.

 

I'm sure Simon would welcome a youthful and enthusiastic young lad such as yourself as a personal aide. Why don't you give him a call?

[Saintandy666]

I'm sure Simon would welcome a youthful and enthusiastic young lad such as yourself as a personal aide. Why don't you give him a call?

 

He's already on speed dial.

[scotty]

 

Oh, and for it is worth I support an in/out referendum on the EU, .

 

Thats what all the pro-europeans always call for, because thats the only referendum they are guaranteed to win. A referendum on the type of EU we actually want to belong to and our relationship with it would always result in something different to what the Germans and French are aiming for, (total fiscal and political union,) hence blairs corrupting of the UK/euro debate saying that we shouldn't hold a referendum on British entry into the eurozone but instead make it a referendum on whether we should leave europe or stay in it, as if there were no other options. Slippery bastard.

[dune]

Thats what all the pro-europeans always call for, because thats the only referendum they are guaranteed to win. A referendum on the type of EU we actually want to belong to and our relationship with it would always result in something different to what the Germans and French are aiming for, (total fiscal and political union,) hence blairs corrupting of the UK/euro debate saying that we shouldn't hold a referendum on British entry into the eurozone but instead make it a referendum on whether we should leave europe or stay in it, as if there were no other options. Slippery bastard.

 

Exactly. I think most people want a free trade area - a common market, but we don't want political union. That said if I was only given an In or Out vote then I would vote Out and the government would then negotiate sovereign trade agreements.

[Saintandy666]

Thats what all the pro-europeans always call for, because thats the only referendum they are guaranteed to win. A referendum on the type of EU we actually want to belong to and our relationship with it would always result in something different to what the Germans and French are aiming for, (total fiscal and political union,) hence blairs corrupting of the UK/euro debate saying that we shouldn't hold a referendum on British entry into the eurozone but instead make it a referendum on whether we should leave europe or stay in it, as if there were no other options. Slippery bastard.

 

I don't really see how we can sort out the EU debate with a what kind of relationship do you want with Europe referendum... you are either in the EU or you are out of the EU. You can sort out what kind of relationship you have if you want out afterwards.

[scotty]

I don't really see how we can sort out the EU debate with a what kind of relationship do you want with Europe referendum... you are either in the EU or you are out of the EU. You can sort out what kind of relationship you have if you want out afterwards.

 

We're in the EU now. We dont have to join the single currency, so why should we? I'm reasonably content with our present situation within the EU, its a smokescreen to suggest that we absolutely have to either agree to further/total integration or get out altogether.

[scotty]

Exactly. I think most people want a free trade area - a common market, but we don't want political union. That said if I was only given an In or Out vote then I would vote Out and the government would then negotiate sovereign trade agreements.

 

I'd go along with that. Free trade and freedom of movement is fine, but our national interests should be controlled by our own elected government.

[Saintandy666]

We're in the EU now. We dont have to join the single currency, so why should we? I'm reasonably content with our present situation within the EU, its a smokescreen to suggest that we absolutely have to either agree to further/total integration or get out altogether.

 

I certainly don't want to join the Euro, and nobody is forcing us to. Like you, I am very happy with the present arrangements. Many however aren't, and that includes an increasing plurality. I think the shouting has become loud enough now that we settle this once and for all, a referendum after which both sides must accept the result.

[Thedelldays]

I certainly don't want to join the Euro, and nobody is forcing us to. Like you, I am very happy with the present arrangements. Many however aren't, and that includes an increasing plurality. I think the shouting has become loud enough now that we settle this once and for all, a referendum after which both sides must accept the result.

if there is a referendum in the next few years...i really think the NO vote will win and we will pull out.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't really see how we can sort out the EU debate with a what kind of relationship do you want with Europe referendum... you are either in the EU or you are out of the EU.

 

But the problem is it is not the same Europe that we joined or the same Europe that we voted to stay in. It has been changed by the Euro extremists under the cover of tidying up and enlarging treaties.

 

Euro loons always want an in/out vote because that's the only one they have a chance of winning.If the British people had been asked at every stage of further intergration they would have voted no, and unlike the Paddy's no would have meant no.The British people want what we signed up for, a Common Market. The extremists know this, so wont allow any vote other than in or out.

 

Not that we will get an in/out vote. They wont want to take the chance of their precious project being thrown out, so will not allow a vote unless 100% sure of winning it. There will be excuses and delay's, every major party may well have the committment to an in/out vote, but I bet there's no timescales promised.

[solentstars]

if there is a referendum in the next few years...i really think the NO vote will win and we will pull out.

 

You may be right but I remember the votes in the 1970s when labour party wanted out of the eu and the polls suggested we would come out but when people realised what it entailed and the effect on their jobs they did a u turn and voted to stay in .

Has someone who remembers pre eu days.how much richer we are has a country since we joined.I would love another vote and would expect the same sort of outcome and behaviour from people when their minds are focused especially when big business get involved spells out the dangers for their business and investment plans.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

[Lord Duckhunter]

You may be right but I remember the votes in the 1970s when labour party wanted out of the eu and the polls suggested we would come out but when people realised what it entailed and the effect on their jobs they did a u turn and voted to stay in .

 

Wilson and most of the Labour cabinet supported a yes vote, so it's just not true that The Labour party wanted out in '75.

 

That vote was to leave a common market, not a European Union. Had the peole known which direction Europe was headed , there's no doubt that they would have voted to come out.In fact they were specifically told that there would be no loss of national sovereignty, that they were joining a trading community and that Parliament would still remain the supreme legal authority in the UK.

[solentstars]

Wilson and most of the Labour cabinet supported a yes vote, so it's just not true that The Labour party wanted out in '75.

 

That vote was to leave a common market, not a European Union. Had the peole known which direction Europe was headed , there's no doubt that they would have voted to come out.In fact they were specifically told that there would be no loss of national sovereignty, that they were joining a trading community and that Parliament would still remain the supreme legal authority in the UK.

Do you think that the United Kingdom should remain part of the European Community (the Common Market)? was the actual question on the referendum and the labour left wanted out,despite your version of events and people trying to predict the future. i still believe the public will vote to stay in for the devil they know rather than standing on the outside when the push comes to the shove just like the past.you have got to thank the tory party for taking us into eec.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Do you think that the United Kingdom should remain part of the European Community (the Common Market)? was the actual question on the referendum and the labour left wanted out,despite your version of events and people trying to predict the future. i still believe the public will vote to stay in for the devil they know rather than standing on the outside when the push comes to the shove just like the past.you have got to thank the tory party for taking us into eec.

 

So you've gone from "The Labour Party" to "The Labour left".

 

The simple fact is the PM, most of the cabinet, the opposition and all the newspapers pushed for a yes to remain in the Common Market. It was a con job on the British people. When Prince Phillip pointed out that the CAP favoured the French and was badly managed he was called a "chump". The establishment used all it's force and cunning to lie and cheat the British to vote yes. What they said was "unthinkable" in 1975 is now the EU that we know and "love" today.

 

The reason why Europe is such a toxic mess for The UK, is because there has not been a proper vote on the powers that the EU have now. No vote on transfer of sovereignty, no vote on expansion, no vote on EU arrest warrants and the like. The British people are treated like mushrooms by the establishment, told what's best for us and called sceptics & extremists if we dare to question the route the EU is taking us down.

 

Who are the people banging the drum for Europe, who are the people telling us that to leave the EU would be a disaster, the very same people who wanted us to join the Euro (and in most cases still do).

 

Who was right about the Euro, Ken Clarke?, Nick Clegg?, Simon Hughes?, Tony Blair? Hestletine?, or was it people like Benn, Redwood, Farage and Bill Cash?

 

Those chumps Who wanted us to join the Euro in prinicple , are the same people telling us how we cant leave the EU. They are like a travel agent who recommended a nice trip on the Titanic saying "ok I got that one wrong, but this Hindenburg air ship is the future, I can highly recommend it".

 

I wouldn't trust them to run a bath, let alone a Country.

[solentstars]

So you've gone from "The Labour Party" to "The Labour left".

 

The simple fact is the PM, most of the cabinet, the opposition and all the newspapers pushed for a yes to remain in the Common Market. It was a con job on the British people. When Prince Phillip pointed out that the CAP favoured the French and was badly managed he was called a "chump". The establishment used all it's force and cunning to lie and cheat the British to vote yes. What they said was "unthinkable" in 1975 is now the EU that we know and "love" today.

 

The reason why Europe is such a toxic mess for The UK, is because there has not been a proper vote on the powers that the EU have now. No vote on transfer of sovereignty, no vote on expansion, no vote on EU arrest warrants and the like. The British people are treated like mushrooms by the establishment, told what's best for us and called sceptics & extremists if we dare to question the route the EU is taking us down.

 

Who are the people banging the drum for Europe, who are the people telling us that to leave the EU would be a disaster, the very same people who wanted us to join the Euro (and in most cases still do).

 

Who was right about the Euro, Ken Clarke?, Nick Clegg?, Simon Hughes?, Tony Blair? Hestletine?, or was it people like Benn, Redwood, Farage and Bill Cash?

 

Those chumps Who wanted us to join the Euro in prinicple , are the same people telling us how we cant leave the EU. They are like a travel agent who recommended a nice trip on the Titanic saying "ok I got that one wrong, but this Hindenburg air ship is the future, I can highly recommend it".

 

I wouldn't trust them to run a bath, let alone a Country.

you may be right but the eu has bought us alot of benefits since we have been in and i know from my experience pre eu we were a lot poorer and my life is far better .we have been treated like mugs by the establishment, pre eu days and still have a unelected second chamber of idiots.

i,ve no problem with another in or out vote but i don,t think it will ever happen again in my lifetime.

[Lord Duckhunter]

you may be right but the eu has bought us alot of benefits since we have been in and i know from my experience pre eu we were a lot poorer and my life is far better .

 

But are we better off because of the EU, or despite the EU. Surely the standard of living would have increased anyway with the advent of cheap debt, easier mortgages and a global economy. All thing's that would have happened anyway, and certainly would have done so if the EU had remained a trading bloc.

 

It has certainly brought real benefits to Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portigual (although they are paying it back in spades at present), I'm just not so sure that we have benefitted.

 

My opinion has always been about accountablility, that Parliament should be sacrosanct and that legislation should start and finish in this country.