Tom8558 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 ...made me appreciate how safe football games are as SMS and other stadiums around the UK. Even the south coast derby was completely painless. Just makes you think...
Crazy Diamond Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Quite how Ukraine and Poland were appropriate places for the competition in the first place is beyond me. Then again, despite being run by a madman, we're having a World Cup in Russia, and despite having no interest in football at all, we're having one in Qatar as well. Money talks.
Bearsy Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 At first I thought it seemed a bit sensationalist cos it was mostly bout them hating on the opposition fans which is normal in my book, and then they was making a big thing of how they call people Jews like it's an insult and wear offensive t-shirts or whatever which again doesn't seem all that bad to me. But then the Ukraine Ultras see some asians in the home end so they give them a bit of a kicking and i thought that was Quite Bad.
ThreeSixty Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 (edited) Must say i'd thought it was all being a bit over hyped by the British media. But the footage is very telling. Edit: Obviously its still just a minority but a loud and visible one. Think they will manage to silence them enough during Euro's for UEFA not to give a ****. Edited 29 May, 2012 by ThreeSixty
SaintAndy14 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Some shocking footage wasn't it - I think both countries should have had to prove they are worthy of hosting a major tournament and having fans/police/stewards acting in that way shows they don't deserve that reward. FIFA/UEFA's response was that being allowed to host the tournament will help to reduce this sort of behaviour in the future in both countries - isn't that like saying give a naughty kid whatever they want in the hope they will learn to appreciate it/be positively influenced? Wrong way of doing things.
The9 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 It's nice that we're all shocked by it to be honest. Just shows the massive change in attitudes in the UK over the last 20 years... and how out of date certain posters are on here.
Sour Mash Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 It's nice that we're all shocked by it to be honest. Just shows the massive change in attitudes in the UK over the last 20 years... and how out of date certain posters are on here. What are 'we' shocked about? Certainly not the usual lazy, cliched, patronising BBC 'journalism'.
The9 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 What are 'we' shocked about? Certainly not the usual lazy, cliched, patronising BBC 'journalism'. I think most of us were pretty shocked to see a bunch of Ukrainian yobs wade through the crowd to lay into some Indian students watching the same team as them and the police and stewards do absolutely nothing about it. Firstly it was shocking to see people get hammered just for having the temerity to have different coloured skin, it was shocking to see it from people supposedly on the same side as them (at least from a footballing perspective), and it was shocking to see the authorities stand around and do nothing. The stuff they also showed with wooden knives and rubbish tactical brawling was ridiculous and mildly comical, but the actual crowd footage and the reporting of it was far from patronising, lazy or cliched.
This Charming Man Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 I thought it was a poorly researched documentary and the presenter came across as rather clueless about football. Poland and Ukraine are no different from any other Eastern European country. On the continent, politics plays a huge part in football and the vast majority of teams are either left or right wing. I'm not saying it's right but it's the way it is. Anyway, none of the hardcore ultras will be in attendance at the games anyway, they've been protesting about the Euros ever since it was announced they'd be hosting them. The games will all pass off peacefully and UEFA will pat themselves on the back for fixing the racism problem/sweeping it under the rug in the Eastern Bloc.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 It wouldn't surprise if the whole thing wasn't staged for the BBC.
Saint J 77 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Absolutely shocking to see what goes on out there! The Indian students getting a kicking from there own fans while the police stood around doing nothing was very disturbing to see. What made me laugh was the Offical denying that the crowds were doing the nazi salute. I think he said something like "oh no they were pointing over there, in the same direction". Something along those lines anyway. Just goes to show they either agree with the crowds or just don't care enough to do anything about it.
This Charming Man Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Absolutely shocking to see what goes on out there! The Indian students getting a kicking from there own fans while the police stood around doing nothing was very disturbing to see. What made me laugh was the Offical denying that the crowds were doing the nazi salute. I think he said something like "oh no they were pointing over there, in the same direction". Something along those lines anyway. Just goes to show they either agree with the crowds or just don't care enough to do anything about it. He was right though. Loads of clubs chant in that style on the continent, including Germany where it's illegal to Sieg Heil. The lower league club they filmed making the monkey noises were Sieg Heiling, the Kharkiv fans weren't.
shurlock Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Is that saganowski at 8m15s - saying that every heavy-framed, dull-looking, inbred pole looks the same. Give the whities a bad name
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Who remembers Raymond Enisuoh, sports editor of New Nation, accusing Millwall fans of chanting Sieg Heil? It transpired that they were playing Brighton and the Sieg Heil's were actually Brighton fans chanting Seagulls.
Gambol2K9 Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 It wouldn't surprise if the whole thing wasn't staged for the BBC. If you think the racial assault of two asian lads by 20 plus people was staged by the BBC then god help us. And you wonder why people call you a troll.
Griffo Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 A lot of the Nazi salutes, weren't actually Nazi salutes. It's just the style in which Ultra groups sing. We 'fist pump' in England when singing if you will, and they sort of make hand gestures like that.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 If you think the racial assault of two asian lads by 20 plus people was staged by the BBC then god help us. And you wonder why people call you a troll. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-crisis-over-fake-sweatshop-scene-in-primark-documentary-2298764.html?origin=internalSearch
buctootim Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-crisis-over-fake-sweatshop-scene-in-primark-documentary-2298764.html?origin=internalSearch "The controversial footage was obtained by journalist Dan McDougall, who is Africa correspondent for The Sunday Times and has a track record for exposing the use of child labour. " So not the BBC at all then. They and Panorama were deceived like the rest of us.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 "The controversial footage was obtained by journalist Dan McDougall, who is Africa correspondent for The Sunday Times and has a track record for exposing the use of child labour. " So not the BBC at all then. They and Panorama were deceived like the rest of us. Well I just smelt a rat with the stadium footage. A group of indian students, in Ukraine, who spoke perfect English, at a football match where neo nazi's are notorious. It looked staged to me. Maybe not by Panorama, but by the TV crew who happened to be there and also happened to get such great shots.
BlakeySFC Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 they was making a big thing of how they call people Jews like it's an insult and wear offensive t-shirts or whatever which again doesn't seem all that bad to me Are you having a laugh? So anti-semitism is 'not all that bad to you' in your twisted logic?! Yes it was sensationalist, it was hard-hitting and a provocative piece of filming, but, it's true. There are racist chants, symbols and fascist imagery at alot of Ukrainian football matches, with Asian/Black fans getting physically beaten by the Ukrainian nutters in the footage. I think it was clear from the Sky Sports News Special Report into Ukrainian hooligans and now the Euro 2012 panorama tape that UEFA should have NEVER awarded the European championships to such ideologically backward countries as Ukraine and Poland
ericb Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Well I just smelt a rat with the stadium footage. A group of indian students, in Ukraine, who spoke perfect English, at a football match where neo nazi's are notorious. It looked staged to me. Maybe not by Panorama, but by the TV crew who happened to be there and also happened to get such great shots. Top class posting dune, i doff my cap to that level of bait.
BlakeySFC Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 A lot of the Nazi salutes, weren't actually Nazi salutes. It's just the style in which Ultra groups sing. We 'fist pump' in England when singing if you will, and they sort of make hand gestures like that. You're almost as bad as the Ukrainian minister on the footage. They were chanting Zieg Hiel and doing the Hitler salute, did you miss that part of the footage? And for those that think the Indian students footage was staged, go down to your local hospital and get a brain transplant. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, this forum is a joke.
de-fence Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-crisis-over-fake-sweatshop-scene-in-primark-documentary-2298764.html?origin=internalSearch You are a moron if you thought that was staged. And anyone who didn't find that documentary shocking is a disgrace in this day and age. Men saying they agree with certain Nazi ideologies and openly showing banners at football matches that say death to jews. I'm going to Poland for the euros and it certainly made me sit up and take notice, despite being white and not jewish
Nexstar Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 He was right though. Loads of clubs chant in that style on the continent, including Germany where it's illegal to Sieg Heil. The lower league club they filmed making the monkey noises were Sieg Heiling, the Kharkiv fans weren't. Sat he the stands he said that Kharkiv fans confirmed they were shouting 'Sieg Heil' because Hitler hated the Jews.
Griffo Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Unfortunately England fans these days will get walked over. Nigel from Berkshire and Davey from Suffolk will have a great time in their St George's costumes. Wish hundreds of proper England lads still travelled who would walk all over these 'ultra' lot. Unfortunately 4,000+ bans has put a stop to that!
Saint Without a Halo Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 (edited) Quite how Ukraine and Poland were appropriate places for the competition in the first place is beyond me. Then again, despite being run by a madman, we're having a World Cup in Russia, and despite having no interest in football at all, we're having one in Qatar as well. Money talks. Qatar has a lot of interest in football! It is just that there are only 200,000 local Qataris (not enough to fill the stadiums they are building) and it will be 45 degrees C when the worldcup is on! Edited 29 May, 2012 by Saint Without a Halo
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Top class posting dune, i doff my cap to that level of bait. I wasn't baiting. Think about it. If that had been filmed on cctv the picture quality wouldn't have been up to that standard, especially over there. IMO that was filmed by a film crew. If that's the case don't you think it odd that they happened to be in that part of the ground, all set up and trained on the incident?
Nexstar Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 I wasn't baiting. Think about it. If that had been filmed on cctv the picture quality wouldn't have been up to that standard, especially over there. IMO that was filmed by a film crew. If that's the case don't you think it odd that they happened to be in that part of the ground, all set up and trained on the incident? Yeah, mental how long it would have taken to pan the camera and press the 'Zoom' button. Spielberg was probably there too.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 You're almost as bad as the Ukrainian minister on the footage. They were chanting Zieg Hiel and doing the Hitler salute, did you miss that part of the footage? And for those that think the Indian students footage was staged, go down to your local hospital and get a brain transplant. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, this forum is a joke. Well if the Indians were payed to sit in the stand to draw a reaction, is it really beyond the realms of possibility that a few were payed to give nazi salutes? Whoever filmed that footage has made a tidy sum from selling it to broadcasters around the world...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Who remembers Raymond Enisuoh, sports editor of New Nation, accusing Millwall fans of chanting Sieg Heil? It transpired that they were playing Brighton and the Sieg Heil's were actually Brighton fans chanting Seagulls. Well well well whatever next lots of Ukranian Brighton supporters that Poyet charecter is certainly popular worldwide
Griffo Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Who remembers Raymond Enisuoh, sports editor of New Nation, accusing Millwall fans of chanting Sieg Heil? It transpired that they were playing Brighton and the Sieg Heil's were actually Brighton fans chanting Seagulls. http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/Press_Coverage5.htm
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 (edited) http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/Press_Coverage5.htm Struggling to keep warm in the freezing temperature, I noticed that although incoming Millwall fans had no problem sitting around me, no one actually sat directly next to me, leaving me on a row by myself. I spent the remaining minutes until kick-off reading a newspaper and the only friendly smiles came from a couple of kids. Unbelievable. The lengths he goes to paint a picture to back up his nonsense. I mean it's hardly racist for people not to sit right next to him in a sparsely filled stand, nor is it racist that no-one struck up a conversation with a stranger. He went there with a closed mind and he saw what he wanted to see. Edited 29 May, 2012 by dune
Graffito Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Cut it out you apologists. I know what I saw and it wasn't a flock of fcking seagulls.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Cut it out you apologists. I know what I saw and it wasn't a flock of fcking seagulls. I'm not disputing what was filmed, but I am sceptical about the authenticity of the whole situation. That doesn't excuse what happened though.
FloridaMarlin Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Which team is going to the Euros with one of their key players charged with racist offences?
ericb Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 I wasn't baiting. Think about it. If that had been filmed on cctv the picture quality wouldn't have been up to that standard, especially over there. IMO that was filmed by a film crew. If that's the case don't you think it odd that they happened to be in that part of the ground, all set up and trained on the incident? Of course i wouldn't want you to give up your A game by admitting to it.
ART Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Well well well whatever next lots of Ukranian Brighton supporters that Poyet charecter is certainly popular worldwide Gus Poyet is South American and comes from URUGUAY NOT UKRAINE Elsewhere CD, how can you say there is no interest in Quatar. They are buying up top players to entertain the small population and their Sheiks own several top clubs including Paris PSG!!!
ART Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Panorama did a great job last week exposing the Azerbaijan regime, and made sure Engelbert did so well in Eurovision. Can't think the welcome Poland and Ukraine are going to give to England players and supporters. Laxative brewed beer for starters.
Frank's cousin Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 What is even more shocking and dispicable than any footage, is that we have morons on here trying to defend it or dilute it as something that can be explained by 'understanding football'. Whether you arseholes are serious or on a regular wind up, makes no difference... ignorant arseholes.
Monk Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Just watched it. ****. thats digusting. bound to be glorified to a degree but none the less, its vile.
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 What is even more shocking and dispicable than any footage' date=' is that we have morons on here trying to defend it or dilute it as something that can be explained by 'understanding football'. Whether you arseholes are serious or on a regular wind up, makes no difference... ignorant arseholes.[/quote'] What are you waffling on about Frank?
Frank's cousin Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 What are you waffling on about Frank? Grow up you ignorant ****
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Grow up you ignorant **** It was a genuine question. You're frothing at the mouth over something, but from reading the thread i'm baffled as to which posts you are referring to.
Frank's cousin Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 It was a genuine question. You're frothing at the mouth over something, but from reading the thread i'm baffled as to which posts you are referring to. Which just highlights your ignorance
jam Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Which team is going to the Euros with one of their key players charged with racist offences? Which team actually try and do something about racist offences?
dune Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Which just highlights your ignorance Then please enlighten us. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's thinking "what is Frank on about now".
Dog Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Well I'm glad I'm not the only one on here that thought it was staged. If you watch the whole footage of it on the web because it's been cut, you can clearly see the Indian firm giving vvanker and middle finger signs to the Nazi's for about 2 minutes before it all kicked off. Plus the camera crew were outside the ground before the match smoking with the Indian firm. So if you ask me it was the biggest stitch up since Jordan's fanny tuck.
SW11_Saint Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 A lot of the Nazi salutes, weren't actually Nazi salutes. It's just the style in which Ultra groups sing. We 'fist pump' in England when singing if you will, and they sort of make hand gestures like that. Congratulations. You just qualified for a job in the Ukranian police force.
SW11_Saint Posted 29 May, 2012 Posted 29 May, 2012 Who remembers Raymond Enisuoh, sports editor of New Nation, accusing Millwall fans of chanting Sieg Heil? It transpired that they were playing Brighton and the Sieg Heil's were actually Brighton fans chanting Seagulls.No one remembers it, and it is irrelevant.
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