pap Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 (edited) Paid back over 15 years, £12.6 million with interest. EU not making any noises about getting their £9M back. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/05/22/liverpool-council-to-pay-back-8-8m-to-allow-cruises-from-river-mersey-terminal-100252-31020330/ Edited 22 May, 2012 by pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 Marlon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 Makes sense to have Liverpool as a major cruise liner start point. If it does all go through, perhaps it could prompt our town planners into actually doing something more positive to attract visitors to the city, rather than planning for endless amounts of new housing and retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 Makes sense to have Liverpool as a major cruise liner start point. If it does all go through, perhaps it could prompt our town planners into actually doing something more positive to attract visitors to the city, rather than planning for endless amounts of new housing and retail. To be fair though the regeneration of Liverpool was pump primed by Billions of pounds worth of EU Objective One and UK regional development aid which is denied the so called 'prosperous south' ie below the M4 corridor I am sure most of us on this forum could have made Southampton a much more attractive place with just a small proportion of the largesse given out to Liverpool Sure the city planners have done well in the main city area but have you ever visited Kirkdale, Garston, Speke, Anfield, Norris Green, Kirkby? Just outside the main city area is Toxteth which has the highest child deprivation area in the UK (by some margin) and the average life expectancy of a woman is 64, compared to 84 in Guilford. Perhaps some of the massive grant money could have been better spent in deprived areas than wasted on a large number of grandiose schemes which have not benefitted the community btw the amount of new flats in Liverpool city centre is massive (most of these were developed with Irish capital which has now disappeared) and the Liverpool One retail development has hastened the demise of many long standing retail stores, including thje flagship Lewis's dept store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2012 To be fair, most of the cultural attractions pre-date EU Objective One funding, although I'll happily admit that the cash has transformed large areas of the city. There's also a lot of truth to what you say about the priorities of respective councils. The Capital of Culture thing was a prime example. Tons of money splashed on the city centre. In our area, the council spent money on new flagstones for pavements, a boulevard effect on the main road and they painted the boarded up windows - a nice mix of unneeded improvement and slapdash resolution to an ongoing eyesore. That all said, tourists coming to Liverpool won't be planning on kipping in a council house on the Boot estate. The prioritisation of the city centre over everything else doesn't mean that other areas don't benefit. A thriving centre creates jobs for the entire city. More jobs means more tax take, and to be fair to the council, they are slowly starting to make improvements in the outlying areas too (new health centre opening around here soon). The other thing I've noticed is that companies like Tesco, who wouldn't have gone near some of the dodgier areas ten years ago, are now firmly implanted in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 I love the way Pap feels compelled to defend liverpool so much..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2012 Not really a defence, TDD. spyinthesky is on the money with a lot of things he says. Loads of areas need urgent attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 I love the way Pap feels compelled to defend liverpool so much..lol To be fair I think he provided a reasoned response Liverpool has always been a city of contrasts. Some fantastic old buildings and some great, warm hearted and generous people. On the downside there a some real **** holes and a vicious underclass that is unfortunately represented by increasing gun and other violent crime (over 50 shootings in the Liverpool area last year and on target (sorry about the pun) to beat this number this year. An awful lot of tax payers money has been wasted up there but again, to be fair, the car plants which were once riven with industrial disputes have turned round abd are doing well As an aside a mate of mine's cousin used to work for Ford when they ran Halewood. A pal nicked an Escort from the security car park and then upgraded all the parts from stuff he 'acquired' from the plant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleonothing Posted 22 May, 2012 Share Posted 22 May, 2012 Problem with Liverpool being a turnaround port is that it is very tidally constrained. Southampton with it's "double" tides is much better for getting ships in on a regular schedule instead of having to plan around the tides. Additionally it is better suited for Medi and European cruises unlike Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 23 May, 2012 Share Posted 23 May, 2012 Problem with Liverpool being a turnaround port is that it is very tidally constrained. Southampton with it's "double" tides is much better for getting ships in on a regular schedule instead of having to plan around the tides. Additionally it is better suited for Medi and European cruises unlike Liverpool. Whilst Liverpool has a significant tidal range I dont think depth of water is a major issue. However Liverpool will have to invest significantly in a suitable terminal, the current one is a tent with capacity to handle only 1200 passengers when the big ships are well over 2,500 Will the Local Council stump up the £10m or so required? It is unlikely that there will be any grant funding available Actually Liverpool is only slightly worse off than Soton as regards distance to Gibraltar (ie entrance to the Med) and is slightly shorter distance to New York. However if you are prone to sea sickness, I wouldnt fancy double doses of the Irish sea and Bay of Biscay if you are heading to/from Liverpool in bad weather!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 May, 2012 Share Posted 23 May, 2012 Paid back over 15 years, £12.6 million with interest. EU not making any noises about getting their £9M back. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/05/22/liverpool-council-to-pay-back-8-8m-to-allow-cruises-from-river-mersey-terminal-100252-31020330/ Its not over yet. Southampton will be going after EU money for its 5th terminal, making it the best-equipped cruise terminal outside the Port of Miami, or there will be a very substantial representation to the EU Competition Commissioner ensuring that Liverpool has to pay back the EU element. And Liverpool now has to pay back a lot more than it offered, and find the money for permanent sufficient capacity facilities. Why should Liverpool be allowed to compete on an uneven playing field - theiving Scouse gits ? And apparently most of the major operators such as Carnival arent interested in Liverpool anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 23 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 23 May, 2012 Its not over yet. Southampton will be going after EU money for its 5th terminal, making it the best-equipped cruise terminal outside the Port of Miami, or there will be a very substantial representation to the EU Competition Commissioner ensuring that Liverpool has to pay back the EU element. And Liverpool now has to pay back a lot more than it offered, and find the money for permanent sufficient capacity facilities. Why should Liverpool be allowed to compete on an uneven playing field - theiving Scouse gits ? And apparently most of the major operators such as Carnival arent interested in Liverpool anyway. EU money to Southampton seems like the best solution to me. That'd level the playing field quite nicely. I'd laugh if the Liverpool decision acted as some sort or precedent or catalyst for Southampton getting a boatload of free EU cash. Scousers chancing their arm indirectly benefits Southampton. Oh, the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 May, 2012 Share Posted 23 May, 2012 having been up and down the Irish sea many times FUK THAT coming from the sunnier climates....possible through the bay of Biscay....last thing I want is another 24hrs+ going up the Irish sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 May, 2012 Share Posted 23 May, 2012 having been up and down the Irish sea many times FUK THAT coming from the sunnier climates....possible through the bay of Biscay....last thing I want is another 24hrs+ going up the Irish sea Went from the Isle of Man to Dublin and back when we were on our honeymoon. Beautiful settled sunny weather on the way over but a raging storm on the way back. There's a message there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 23 May, 2012 Share Posted 23 May, 2012 EU money to Southampton seems like the best solution to me. That'd level the playing field quite nicely. I'd laugh if the Liverpool decision acted as some sort or precedent or catalyst for Southampton getting a boatload of free EU cash. Scousers chancing their arm indirectly benefits Southampton. Oh, the irony. Chasing EU money is a bit of bluff and bluster. It is highly unlikely to happen, especially for the cruise trade I was talking to a well placed source in the Civil Service a while ago who said it was successive Govt strategy to ensure the vast majority of EU and UK grant aid went north of the M4 This was borne out when chatting to some one well up at Fords plant in Swaythling Some of their buildings date back to pre war and they would love to get Govt assistance to upgrade buildings and tooling to compete with the Transit plant in Turkey They were told 'no chance' as this area is seen to be 'prosperous' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 24 May, 2012 Share Posted 24 May, 2012 Chasing EU money is a bit of bluff and bluster. It is highly unlikely to happen, especially for the cruise trade I was talking to a well placed source in the Civil Service a while ago who said it was successive Govt strategy to ensure the vast majority of EU and UK grant aid went north of the M4 This was borne out when chatting to some one well up at Fords plant in Swaythling Some of their buildings date back to pre war and they would love to get Govt assistance to upgrade buildings and tooling to compete with the Transit plant in Turkey They were told 'no chance' as this area is seen to be 'prosperous' Fits with British defence procurement of the 80s, when all the frigate and destroyer orders went north, allowing VT over in Woolston to bleed to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 24 May, 2012 Share Posted 24 May, 2012 I have left Southampton from both Ocean Terminal and City Cruise Terminal, OT is a joy to sail from but CCT is like being at Heathrow or Gatwick. What is great is that your cases are taken from you when you arrive at the terminal and the next time you see them is when they are delivered to your cabin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Are you watching, Liverpool ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 This is all a bit of a non event story. The facts are that most cruises set off from Southampton because it has first class transport links to the majority of the UK population. The ships would take considerably longer to get to sunny weather from Liverpool, extending cruises by a day and therefore increasing cost. The infrastructure is all in place here and works well. Losing sleep over somewhere like Liverpool muscling in on this is pointless as all it will ever be is a stop off at best for smaller ships struggling with a meaningful itinerary on a round the UK cruise. The positives for Southampton are countless, which is why its Europes leading cruise port. The positives for Liverpool are almost nil!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Are you watching, Liverpool ???? I'm sure they are watching the problems with luggage, and the no show by the red arrows quite eagerly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 3 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2012 Are you watching, Liverpool ???? That looks bloody awesome Alps. Great photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I'm sure they are watching the problems with luggage, and the no show by the red arrows quite eagerly... That was during the Three Queens meeting, FFS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 That was during the Three Queens meeting, FFS.. I know. I was talking about today. Hence my not including the photo. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2012 Share Posted 3 July, 2012 I know. I was talking about today. Hence my not including the photo. FFS. Fair enough, I didnt know they were lined up to display again today. Not suprised there were luggage issues with 7 cruise liners in at one time. Lets see how the Scousers get on with one little one before sneering at Southampton, eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 4 July, 2012 Share Posted 4 July, 2012 Fair enough, I didnt know they were lined up to display again today. Not suprised there were luggage issues with 7 cruise liners in at one time. Lets see how the Scousers get on with one little one before sneering at Southampton, eh ? Half the luggage would end up at a car boot up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 July, 2012 Share Posted 4 July, 2012 Half the luggage would end up at a car boot up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 4 July, 2012 Share Posted 4 July, 2012 Are you watching, Liverpool ???? I was thinking it wasn't going to be clear enough for good pictures yesterday. Great photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 4 July, 2012 Share Posted 4 July, 2012 I was thinking it wasn't going to be clear enough for good pictures yesterday. Great photo! Is that from the tower blocks, International way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 5 July, 2012 Share Posted 5 July, 2012 Its not over yet. Southampton will be going after EU money for its 5th terminal, making it the best-equipped cruise terminal outside the Port of Miami, or there will be a very substantial representation to the EU Competition Commissioner ensuring that Liverpool has to pay back the EU element. And Liverpool now has to pay back a lot more than it offered, and find the money for permanent sufficient capacity facilities. Why should Liverpool be allowed to compete on an uneven playing field - theiving Scouse gits ? And apparently most of the major operators such as Carnival arent interested in Liverpool anyway. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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