Thedelldays Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Agreed. They just about stayed up the season before, then lost N'zogbia & Cleverley. I thought they were certs to go down. every season they lose their best players...and yet stay up every season. he works utter miracles and always tries to play football the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I would say they were to be honest..keeping that team up is a miracle They lost nine games in a row, but I take your point. A lot of Liverpool fans on Twitter are going mental about it. Martinez not big enough for them, apparently Big enough for the owners. My point is, if Martinez is under consideration, then why wouldn't they look at Adkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 They lost nine games in a row, but I take your point. A lot of Liverpool fans on Twitter are going mental about it. Martinez not big enough for them, apparently Big enough for the owners. My point is, if Martinez is under consideration, then why wouldn't they look at Adkins? because he has NO premiership experience I would have thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 because he has NO premiership experience I would have thought You're probably right, his 3 years PL experience will place him towards the top of the wanted list. However, even as small as Wigan are, I wouldn't say finishing 16th, 16th and 15th in the Premier League is an enormous thing for anyone to rely on. He's done a good job, of course he has, whilst always losing top players. But I wouldn't say that record places him in an entirely different bracket, just further up the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 because he has NO premiership experience I would have thought or NO top flight experience anywhere....unless you count the Welsh Premier League of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Liverpool are a Europa league team at very best right now, what do they expect? Also, since when did big guarantee results anyway? Dalglish was allowed to spend £120M on players, I'd suggest that raises expectation levels to the point where 4th place is a very realistic and achievable aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 On SKY now too... Now saying they have given permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Who would like a tip-off on next manager of WBA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Who would like a tip-off on next manager of WBA? Philipe trousier..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Who would like a tip-off on next manager of WBA? If you're 'Appy and you know it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I meant Martinez. If he's expected to get 4th, it's a harsh way to judge it. It is anyway, if it comes down to 4th = brilliant and 5th = sacked. Could be the difference of one goal over a season between being a good manager and bad. It's not the best way to make decisions. If money seems to be used wisely, results and league position are improving and there's room for optimism, then stick with the manager. Dalgleish used money very poorly, quite clearly. League position was poor, but most of all results erratic. If he'd had a bad run, then a good run, seeming like problems were fixed and the future looked good, then he'd have deserved to stay IMO. But it was just a continuation of winning the odd game or two, then slipping up, with little sign of change. If Martinez has them 5th or 6th, he'd deserve another season IMO. Depends how his signings are looking I suppose. Most managers deserve to be given a bit of time. Not easy when Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal will all be counting on CL football each season. That's why it's more exciting now, big clubs will miss out and lose players. it was more than that. One reporter on the radio today said that the owners had to go cap in hand and explain to their sponsors (who pay a ridiculous amount of money to liverpool) that they are not a racist club. That stemmed from the continuing backing and utterly poor handling dalgleish did over the suarez affair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 If you're 'Appy and you know it.... Philipe trousier..? Allegedly.... Lee Clark. 10/1 at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Allegedly.... Lee Clark. 10/1 at the moment. Wow. Can't get out of League One and potentially landing a Prem job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I meant Martinez. If he's expected to get 4th, it's a harsh way to judge it. It is anyway, if it comes down to 4th = brilliant and 5th = sacked. Could be the difference of one goal over a season between being a good manager and bad. It's not the best way to make decisions. If money seems to be used wisely, results and league position are improving and there's room for optimism, then stick with the manager. Dalgleish used money very poorly, quite clearly. League position was poor, but most of all results erratic. If he'd had a bad run, then a good run, seeming like problems were fixed and the future looked good, then he'd have deserved to stay IMO. But it was just a continuation of winning the odd game or two, then slipping up, with little sign of change. If Martinez has them 5th or 6th, he'd deserve another season IMO. Depends how his signings are looking I suppose. Most managers deserve to be given a bit of time. Not easy when Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal will all be counting on CL football each season. That's why it's more exciting now, big clubs will miss out and lose players. Its very difficult to label it, as we don't know what resouces the new manager (if Martinez) will be given. What we do know is that spending that amount of money and finishing 8th place, 17 points off of Champions League qualification, was unacceptably poor. And spending huge sums on failures such as Downing and Henderson, plus the very questionable £35M on Carroll did him no favours at all. Liverpool get mocked a lot, but they are a huge club and will always be able to compete in terms of finance with the top 4, despite missing out on Champions League revenues. Their kit sales alone are worth £25M a year to them, and their kit is the 4th best selling kit in terms of world sales (behind only Man U, Barca and Real). That, and their worldwide brand, gives them the resource to challenge year on year, if not to compete with Man City then certainly to have a go at Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and even in time Man United. I think a new manager will get given some decent money to spend, and he will be under instant pressure to perform. 4th place may not be the be all and end all in season 1, but there will certainly have to be a massive improvement from the shambles they've been this year, and I'd say a Newcastle-eque season will be the minimum requirement from any incoming manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Adkins is a year or two behind. Doesn't mean he's not as good, maybe better who knows, but he's not there yet. Maybe Liverpool would look at Lambert and Rodgers. Both a year ahead of Adkins and it makes a big difference. I'm sure if Adkins got us mid-table and Liverpool needed a manager next summer, they might consider him. I'm not sure Adkins needs another couple of years to have a go. If he does, maybe Cortese should bin him and get someone with Premiership experience. I hear Alex McLeish and Kenny Dalglish are available Joshing aside, you're probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Wow. Can't get out of League One and potentially landing a Prem job. Cracking forward-thinking manager. Just finished his interview with WBA today. Apparently it went very, very well...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Dalglish was allowed to spend £120M on players, I'd suggest that raises expectation levels to the point where 4th place is a very realistic and achievable aim. Anfield capacity: 45,522 Therefore we will be spending 72 mil in the same period, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 It would take some balls and would stretch credulity for Liverpool's American owners to replace with someone most Liverpool fans have probably never heard of a Liverpool legend sacked after just 12 months in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Never ruled out Martinez. Do think they will land a big name. Still think Lambert, Rogers, and Martinez wiould get a look in before Adkins. Lee Clark no way! They will 100% take on a big name or another premier league manager, cannot see the someone at the club route. Can you imagine the meltdown if they took on a manager outside the top flight? As the scousers are going nuts over Martinez! I can say i am not concerned about Adkins leaving for Liverpool, as it will not happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Liverpool fans want nothing less than the title, and that is where the problem is. What comes of dominating football in the 70's and 80's.........over 20 years ago. Just not that good anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Its very difficult to label it, as we don't know what resouces the new manager (if Martinez) will be given. What we do know is that spending that amount of money and finishing 8th place, 17 points off of Champions League qualification, was unacceptably poor. And spending huge sums on failures such as Downing and Henderson, plus the very questionable £35M on Carroll did him no favours at all. One thing that really makes me laugh is when people say "ah, but the Carroll transfer wasn't so bad because Liverpool sold Torres for fifty million". That makes it worse in my opinion. Someone gives you fifty million quid and the first thing you do is spunk 35 mil on a player like Carroll. No disrespect to the lad - I actually want him to come good and do well. I don't think anyone is going to spend 35M or more on him though. Dalglish spent £35M on a ( being generous ) £15M player. Shocking piece of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Can you imagine the meltdown if they took on a manager outside the top flight? As the scousers are going nuts over Martinez! The worst thing Liverpool did was to pander to the demand of the fans and go for King Kenny. They have a huge amount of fans who need a reality check of the total reform of their management team that they need, so a completely new, up and coming face wouldn't be the worst thing by any stretch. And their owners have the benefit of "distance" on their side, so can have a bit more of a free hand without bowing to fans pressure this time round. I think they'll go with a safer option of someone like Martinez or Rogers; whether its the right choice or not, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 It would take some balls and would stretch credulity for Liverpool's American owners to replace with someone most Liverpool fans have probably never heard of a Liverpool legend sacked after just 12 months in the job. I agree, but Martinez is in contention and the Liverpool fans are saying exactly the same thing about that. "Can't believe we sacked Dalglish for Martinez..." Fair to say that the board are making decisions over the objections of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 One thing that really makes me laugh is when people say "ah, but the Carroll transfer wasn't so bad because Liverpool sold Torres for fifty million". That makes it worse in my opinion. Someone gives you fifty million quid and the first thing you do is spunk 35 mil on a player like Carroll. No disrespect to the lad - I actually want him to come good and do well. I don't think anyone is going to spend 35M or more on him though. Dalglish spent £35M on a ( being generous ) £15M player. Shocking piece of business. Wash your mouth out, he is going to spearhead the England attack to Euro success. Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 One thing that really makes me laugh is when people say "ah, but the Carroll transfer wasn't so bad because Liverpool sold Torres for fifty million". That makes it worse in my opinion. Someone gives you fifty million quid and the first thing you do is spunk 35 mil on a player like Carroll. No disrespect to the lad - I actually want him to come good and do well. I don't think anyone is going to spend 35M or more on him though. Dalglish spent £35M on a ( being generous ) £15M player. Shocking piece of business. Totally agree. Some Liverpool fans claim "we signed Carroll for minus £15M". Idiocy in the extreme. We've definitely yet to see the best of Carroll, but he simply isn't worth £35M or anywhere near it. The price tag was like a lead weight around his neck and probably will be for some time yet, and it was an enormously porr decision to make by Dalglish. One which was probably at the top of the list for justifcation at removing him from his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I agree, but Martinez is in contention and the Liverpool fans are saying exactly the same thing about that. "Can't believe we sacked Dalglish for Martinez..." Fair to say that the board are making decisions over the objections of the fans. The football he gets his teams playing is the 'Liverpool way' ball on the deck and passing, not the losing 9 on the spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Wash your mouth out, he is going to spearhead the England attack to Euro success. Hmmm I really hope he does, mate. He was quality at Newcastle and Liverpool weren't really playing in a way that suited his style. Bit of a gamble for the Euros, but is in banging form. Could become a legend if the gamble pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Wash your mouth out, he is going to spearhead the England attack to Euro success. Hmmm To be fair, we have a massive dearth of striking talent available right now. especially so when you take Rooney out of the equation. Carroll wasn't worth £35M, not even close, but its difficult to nominate many other available strikers who should justifiably be going in his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I was talking to a friend who's a liverpool fan and they've got their hearts set on Pepe somewhat madly. I mentioned Martinez (didn't even bother with Adkins) and he had the standard big club response of he's not good enough for us. When pressed his only reason was that he'd managed wigan and "it's not the same as liverpool". So with that kind of attitude if they do go for a relative unknown, and Martinez is anything but an unknown, he'll be absolutely slaughtered if he's not winning from the off. Fuc.king weird attitude these big clubs have, despite the terrible record of "big name" managers they always clamor for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 This is a liverpool fan's list of requirements that any new manager must have, I thought this was quite funny to say the least... 1. Knowledge of the club. He must have knowledge of Liverpool FC. It's place within the footballing world and an ability to communicate that knowledge. 2. Universal Respect of the fans. He must be someone that the fans can respect. This obviously gets rid of 'controversial' appointments that would split the fanbase (Even though they may be good managers in their own right). They must have proven pedigree. Tangiable success. 3. Tactics and knowledge of the game. They must have clear and demonstrable strategies that are capable of working within the modern game in the Premier League. They must be tactics and strategies that can handle the 'kick and rush' style of the English game without succombing to it. 4. Personal integrity. They must be able and happy to deal with the press, but also be apart from the press. They must be able to speak to Sky and control them without bowing to them. They must be their own man, but be that man within the history of the club. They must not be a man that goes to the press every day and becomes a rent-a-quote machine for them. I'd expect them to speak when asked and be silent when it is better for the club. They will acknowledge and deal with other managers and cliques such as the FA and LMA and yet be apart from them. 5. Personal strength. They must be able to stand up to players and deal with player power in the club. One man at the top. One man in charge. Not two. Not three. One. They have to show strength, determination and commitment to their ideals and goals and get on with that in their own way without being swayed. The must have courage and commitment and must stand up to the owners as much as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I still think IF Liverpool approached us and NC said Adkins could speak to them, but then did not get the job, he would get the sack. NC has a plan and has given the man his break, and wants NA to be part of this. If he even indicates that he may be interested in leaving, he will be gone one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 I still think IF Liverpool approached us and NC said Adkins could speak to them, but then did not get the job, he would get the sack. NC has a plan and has given the man his break, and wants NA to be part of this. If he even indicates that he may be interested in leaving, he will be gone one way or the other. Quit simply, NC wouldn't give permission. NA would have to try to walk out of SFC to get the job, I'm sure. Dave Whelan accepts Wigan's situation, and has consistently said he would willingly let his manager talk to top clubs if they came calling. NC, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-scooby Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/liverpool-specials/next-permanent-manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 When is the "Wigan approach Adkins" thread starting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/liverpool-specials/next-permanent-manager hah, the bookies must be minting it again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 hah, the bookies must be minting it again, Looks like they know the shortlist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Give us a clue, but make sure to write it in another language. I've left LOADS of clues all over the site over the past month or so. You just have to read between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 There is no way Liverpool would go for Adkins, the scousers would be ****ed off if they hire Martinez and he's managed in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 because he has NO premiership experience I would have thought Nor has Martinez. He's been a Premier League manager for 3 seasons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Nor has Martinez. He's been a Premier League manager for 3 seasons though. You really are busting your nuts to be pedantic to the MLG degree about the whole "Premiership" thing, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 When is the "Wigan approach Adkins" thread starting? haha sooner than you think I'd imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Either this is a wind up, or you're very stupid. Come to think of it, that's pretty stupid either way. Still, nothing else worth discussing until I get my kit thread up... Enormous international fanbase (still, despite being only above average to decent for 20 years), significant financial investment, the chance to work with top international players (and some England ones) and a high profile job that could lead to worldwide opportunities. He could also get a significant payrise (though I don't doubt Cortese would match it if needed) AND he's a scouser. It's only Liverpool maybe wanting a bigger name or someone with proven Prem experience that's stopping an offer coming in - but once he's got a couple of seasons Prem experience (like Martinez or Rodgers) this will come around again and we'll see if he's promising enough or a big enough name for them then. "Either this is a wind up or you're very stupid." In response I would say either this is a wind up or you are very stupid or very arrogant. Very probably all 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Dalglish was allowed to spend £120M on players, I'd suggest that raises expectation levels to the point where 4th place is a very realistic and achievable aim. Errr not quite, they had "that Clown Comoly" who did all the player deals....... Yup him what did given the boot a few weeks back. Reliable sources have revealed that in the purchase of Carroll Comoly's opening bid was for £30m!! Newcastle (almost like Dave Jones did when the phone rang with Blackburn offering £7.5m for Kevin Davies) nearly passed out then probably thought let's get a bit of play money and tell them £35m he's yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 Errr not quite, they had "that Clown Comoly" who did all the player deals....... Yup him what did given the boot a few weeks back. Reliable sources have revealed that in the purchase of Carroll Comoly's opening bid was for £30m!! Newcastle (almost like Dave Jones did when the phone rang with Blackburn offering £7.5m for Kevin Davies) nearly passed out then probably thought let's get a bit of play money and tell them £35m he's yours. And Kenny had no choice over the players he signed? Or over what he/the club would pay? And his name was Damien Comolli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 "Either this is a wind up or you're very stupid." In response I would say either this is a wind up or you are very stupid or very arrogant. Very probably all 3. In what way is it a wind up and in what way is it stupid to make the almost embarrassingly obvious point that Adkins would leave us for Liverpool. You do realise Nigel left another club to join us don't you? We didn't pluck him out of the Northam and give him a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 NC would not give permission if Liverpool wanted to speak to him. Then he would have to walk, talk to them on the sly or stay with us. I do not think they will even be asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 When is the "Wigan approach Adkins" thread starting? Or the skates approach sponge bob thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 And Kenny had no choice over the players he signed? Or over what he/the club would pay? And his name was Damien Comolli. These days the manager identifies the player and will have chat with him in the process just to make sure he is what he thinks he is, attends the medical. But that is as far as it goes for him until the deal is done, as with the millions involved someone else in the organisation will deal with the pounds shillings and pence of the deal, the manager probably won't know the full detail until the dotted line has been signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 These days the manager identifies the player and will have chat with him in the process just to make sure he is what he thinks he is, attends the medical. But that is as far as it goes for him until the deal is done, as with the millions involved someone else in the organisation will deal with the pounds shillings and pence of the deal, the manager probably won't know the full detail until the dotted line has been signed. That's very naive. A manager will know what budget they are working to in terms of transfer fees available and wages to be paid. They will know from agents exactly what they will need to pay in wages, and what their club will have to pay as a transfer fee. And they will need to know all of this so that they can plan for which players they need to bring in, and how many they can afford. The manager will know the details of what the player wants before even meeting him, and therefore will be able to put together a fairly accurate list of how many players he needs, and which ones he'd prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 17 May, 2012 Share Posted 17 May, 2012 In what way is it a wind up and in what way is it stupid to make the almost embarrassingly obvious point that Adkins would leave us for Liverpool. You do realise Nigel left another club to join us don't you? We didn't pluck him out of the Northam and give him a contract. That is true but he is a man who will only do things the right way. Remember that he did not sign until everything was agreed with S****horpe. Would he ignore Cortese and just walk if Liverpool came calling? I don't get the impression that he is that kind of person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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