Review ordered after abuse death

[PompeyLass]

Just been watching the news & listened to the story about this.

 

How the **** have they not learned ? Also the parents apparently cannot be named for legal reasons.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7723042.stm (look at the Trial evidence to the right as well)

 

RIP little one.

Edited 11 November, 2008 by PompeyLass

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Saw this on the news as well. Its disgusting that the culprits are not named and shamed. May just get what they truely deserve then. F*cking sick people picking on an innocent child.

 

Also, how heads have not rolled at that social services place I dont know.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Saw this on the news as well. Its disgusting that the culprits are not named and shamed. May just get what they truely deserve then. F*cking sick people picking on an innocent child.

 

Also, how heads have not rolled at that social services place I dont know.

 

The social worker was named and shamed in court. it's easy to criticise her but i don't think any of us would like to work in child protection. I know i wouldn't. You get slagged off for taking away children from parents or you get slagged off for failing to do so.

The doctor/paeditrican should have examined the child in hospital but did not saying the child was "cranky"?

At the end of the day if parents are determined to harm/kill their children, then it is dificult to stop them.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

The doctor/paeditrican should have examined the child in hospital but did not saying the child was "cranky"?

 

He should be blamed IMO aswell, failing to notice a kid has a broken back! Understandably a bit cranky, and IMO all the more reason he should have looked at the kid.

[swannymere]

The social worker was named and shamed in court. it's easy to criticise her but i don't think any of us would like to work in child protection. I know i wouldn't. You get slagged off for taking away children from parents or you get slagged off for failing to do so.

The doctor/paeditrican should have examined the child in hospital but did not saying the child was "cranky"?

At the end of the day if parents are determined to harm/kill their children, then it is dificult to stop them.

 

There are no excuses, if your not up to the job, especially in such an important position then carrying on in that position makes you as culpable.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

There are no excuses, if your not up to the job, especially in such an important position then carrying on in that position makes you as culpable.

What would you have done? the child had already been taken away once and an investigation took place.

I'm more inclined to blame the doctor who should have examined the child in hospital.

[badgerx16]

There are no excuses, if your not up to the job, especially in such an important position then carrying on in that position makes you as culpable.

Children's Social Services staff are some of the most pressured people you can find, especially in some of the inner city jungles. You can get 999 cases right and get zero appreciation; but get #1000 wrong and you are slated, whether it is not taking a child into care when with hindsight you should have done, or taking a child into care and then being told that you were over-reacting. They are told that the best place for any child to be is with the parents, and everything is geared to that aim.

No system could ever be perfect, yet we always have to have a scapegoat; followed by yet another public enquiry and hence more legislation to complicate and confuse an already over-whelming level of beaurocratic overheads.

In this case the level of deliberate deception on the mother's part was inconceivable.

[PompeyLass]

Why haven't the parents been named ?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Why haven't the parents been named ?

 

This is what I wish to know

[PompeyLass]

This is what I wish to know

 

It's odd how the lodger has been named but not them.

[Robsk II]

i don't think any of us would like to work in child protection. I know i wouldn't. You get slagged off for taking away children from parents or you get slagged off for failing to do so.

 

I've had to deal with several child protection issues and I always work by the policy of 'if in doubt, act' - because you can't be too careful. If I have any reason to suspect, I will start the procedure. This doesn't mean taking anyone away, but it does mean keeping proper tabs on the case and also involving other agencies etc. In that, I have done my job.

 

The craziest thing about this case is that it happened in the SAME local authority as Climbie!!!

[Johnny Shearer]

This and the other story about the baby just was too much for me. I couldn't read all the way through as I found it very upsetting.

 

So difficult to comprehend that there are people like that out there.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I've had to deal with several child protection issues and I always work by the policy of 'if in doubt, act' - because you can't be too careful. If I have any reason to suspect, I will start the procedure. This doesn't mean taking anyone away, but it does mean keeping proper tabs on the case and also involving other agencies etc. In that, I have done my job.

 

The craziest thing about this case is that it happened in the SAME local authority as Climbie!!!

Agree with you there. I've had to deal with some safeguarding adults cases myself where adults with a disability have been financially and physically abused by paid carers, informal carers and family members. As you said if in doubt act. Most times it's gut instinct or something other people might dismiss etc but you can't take the chance. Main problem is communication with health professionals and Police and slow responses to referrals made.

Edited 12 November, 2008 by AndyNorthernSaints

[swannymere]

What would you have done? the child had already been taken away once and an investigation took place.

I'm more inclined to blame the doctor who should have examined the child in hospital.

 

The social workers are surely involved to protect the interests of the child, the filthy, disgusting and wounded state the child was found in on numerous occasions should surely have rung some alarm bells? Not removing the child from the situation makes them as responsible.

[Robsk II]

The problem is, swannymere, that at practitioner level, these on-the-ground workers may well not have had the authority to do so. they may have followed the correct proceedures and so on, we can't really know from what's been reported. One thing I do find troubling is that, after being taken away, the child was returned because medical examination of suspected injuries were 'inconclusive' - so that basically says the child was returned to parents with the knowledge they may have been returning it to dangerous place. Plenty of people will react to this in a knee-jerk way and say it's the governments fault, human rights is ****, all that - but at the end of the day, it's very, very hard to legislate effectively for this kind of thing without causing serious issues for a lot of innocent parents as well. At the end of the day, the main blame lies entirely with those f*ck ups that did this disgusting act. Despite the severity of the injuries, a social worker may well not always be in a position to examine a child as well as they'd like, because some parents just won't let them. People forget that the workers must attempt to maintain an environment in which the parents don't seek to entirely shut out professionals involved, and this might sometimes mean keeping the peace rather than insisting on actioning things that may well not be the case. I certainly wouldn't blame any of the social workers fully until the facts come out, if they truly do, and even then, they will never be the main guilty party - they might well be part of a bigger problem, poor policy-making etc, but again - at the end of the day, it's simply a very hard sot of thing to work with at the best of times, even if you're a very professional, seasoned worker.

[saint_bert]

I have no shame in saying that the image on the front of The Sun, even though it was CGI brought me to tears. As a young Dad with a young boy I find it hard to comprehend what goes through the sick, demented minds of the vile individuals who inflict this upon innocent children.

 

R.I.P little one

[swannymere]

Whilst i agree on some points, surely the fact that a child lives in such filth is reason enough to remove it, if a parent can't take responsibility for even the most basic hygiene then what chance is that child going to have? I may sound like a Nazi to some but removing the child from a situation like that when they are young enough to be fostered ad before they develop the habits of their parents.

[Robsk II]

of course this child should have been removed. All I'm saying is that it may not have been as easy to see that from the outside, or to make it happen, as you might think. It's sodding awful, and there may well have been failings on an individual and organisational point of view - but like I say, it's so easy to say that with tragic hindsight.

[amsterdam]

Tragic - poor, poor nipper. Not usually one for knee-jerk, vigilante reaction, but I'd be happy if those 3 responsible for this were lynched.

[St Landrew]

of course this child should have been removed. All I'm saying is that it may not have been as easy to see that from the outside, or to make it happen, as you might think. It's sodding awful, and there may well have been failings on an individual and organisational point of view - but like I say, it's so easy to say that with tragic hindsight.

 

Of course it is difficult for social workers to get the decision right. But it seems that once again, through a lack of communication, some innocent infant has slipped through the net. I've noticed over the years, the one common factor in cases where it all goes wrong, indeed almost every situation where things fail, is a lack of communication. It seems like a British disease. Nobody is ready to step in and go beyond what is minimal action. To make the situation more important than themselves.

 

These incidents will keep happening time and again, and we'll never learn the lesson.

[bridge too far]

I haven't had a chance to digest this but you might find the report on this case of interest:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/13_11_08_haringey.pdf

 

It seems everything in that family was fairly OK until 'the boyfriend' turned up. The report also seems to say that a number of 'agencies' were at fault.

 

Sadly, people have been abusing children for centuries and will continue to do so. I really hope that even more robust measures are put in place as a result of this awful tragedy but, ultimately, those measures can't and won't stop evil parents carrying out this sort of dreadful abuse.

[saint1977]

Of course it is difficult for social workers to get the decision right. But it seems that once again, through a lack of communication, some innocent infant has slipped through the net. I've noticed over the years, the one common factor in cases where it all goes wrong, indeed almost every situation where things fail, is a lack of communication. It seems like a British disease. Nobody is ready to step in and go beyond what is minimal action. To make the situation more important than themselves.

 

These incidents will keep happening time and again, and we'll never learn the lesson.

 

Totally agree with you but it is unforgivable that Haringey's Senior Management refused to apologise at the Press Conference and instead put out a sheet of A4 spin about how great they are. Shows you the attitude at the top of that LA - they have a hard job as those of us who have been to watch Saints at Spurs in the past know what a tough, deprived Borough it is! Nevertheless, it is no excuse for sticking their well-paid heads in the sand.

[bridge too far]

As is to be expected, the Guardian has a lot of coverage of this case.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/nov/13/childprotection-climbie-crime

 

This article is written by the Chief of the Association of Social Workers and is, I supposed, skewed as a result. But it does highlight the very real difficulties faced by SWs in trying to carry out their duties.

 

Under-resourced, threatened with physical violence, case-loads three times as large as they should be.

 

I'm not defending anyone here but I don't think, from what I've read, that the blame can be laid entirely at the SW's door. It seems to me that the hospitals and the police were just as lax.

[St Landrew]

As is to be expected, the Guardian has a lot of coverage of this case.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/nov/13/childprotection-climbie-crime

 

This article is written by the Chief of the Association of Social Workers and is, I supposed, skewed as a result. But it does highlight the very real difficulties faced by SWs in trying to carry out their duties.

 

Under-resourced, threatened with physical violence, case-loads three times as large as they should be.

 

I'm not defending anyone here but I don't think, from what I've read, that the blame can be laid entirely at the SW's door. It seems to me that the hospitals and the police were just as lax.

 

Well of course. You make an excellent and valid point IMO. And what it immediately suggests is a failure to communicate between these institutions.

 

The local charity I do IT work for deals with young people who suffer from poor parentage/family breakups, etc... They are often threatened with violence and meet with bad behaviour on a daily basis. I also get involved in a few other ways too, and so I have heard directly from a Southampton C.C. official that they are a Rolls Royce in a Ford Escort environment. So their budget gets cut back every now and then. They still do a Rolls Royce job though because they go the extra step, when the minimum Ford Escort job is all that is required. Their communication practices are top notch, and show what can easily be achieved. It's not just about budgets, it's about how to go about doing the job.

[Robsk II]

The crazy thing is that afte the Climbie case, the Every Child Matter framework etc were devised ENTIRELY to stop this kind of thing happening - not the abuses, it's impossible to stop everything, no matter how good things are - but to stop a breakdwon of communications, multiple agencies ****ing up and not communicating. We are all meant to put great emphasis on joint working and a multi agency approach, and this seems to have failed yet again. If all had been involved and informed, there would have been sufficient cause to make that child safe. The (relatively new) Common Assesssment Framework SHOULD have been performed on this case, should have been pursued, and if followed through appropriately with the co-operation of all agencies involved and other being brought in, it was preventable. THAT is what makes this tragedy all the more tragic. Climbie was killed in the SAME ****ing local authority, I mean what the hell? I know a lot about this kind of thing, and it's awful that some agencies and bodies are still ****.

 

The worst thing is that this isn't isolated. We had a case of a young man who, until we picked him up and kicked the cr*p out of social services and everyone else about it, agencies had simply stopped working with. He was very much 'at risk' for more than one reason, but each agency had dropped the case, thinking the others were still working it. This should simply never have happened, it's pathetic. he could have been in a cellar or under the sodding patio, but the agencies involved initially, the ones that SHOULD have stayed involved, totally just screwed up. We were absolutely dumbfounded by the failings displayed, and I promise you, it could have gone the same way as this one in the paper.

 

Whatever anyone else says, you can't blame the government for this one. The legislation in place is the best to safeguard young people we've ever had, but it just gets ****ed on by bad professionals. I could write a book on the incompetence of agencies on Southampton, I really could, and a lot of it has potentially put young people at risk.

[saint francis]

I read this in the paper yesterday which suggests why lessons weren't learned following the Climbe case, and why lessons still will not be learned following this case. It's pretty cutting and cynical but struck a chord with me and pretty much sums up how I feel about the matter.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5133966.ece?Submitted=true

[thesaint sfc]

Bring back the death sentence.

 

My mums a social worker and I can confirm that the entire of social services is a complete and utter unorganised shambles.

Edited 13 November, 2008 by thesaint sfc

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Bring back the death sentence.

 

My mums a social worker and I can confirm that the entire of social services is a complete and utter unorganised shambles.

That makes you an expert then?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Posted to youtube by a Bournemouth soul fan.

 

What more can we say? It's what we need to do, collectively, as this lady points out.

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iACP2tM78PY