Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Who thinks that? Not seen anyone suggest gay people should get married. Unless you're misreading 'in favour of gay marriage'. It just means equal rights, nothing more. I imagine most gay people don't desperately want to get married, but that doesn't mean they can't protest about not being allowed to. It's so tedious anyway arguing about discrimination that should have disappeared years ago. Let's go to the other extreme. Force gay marriage, try and make as many people as gay as possible. Maybe tax benefits for homosexuality? If we can get the majority of a generation or two gaying it up we could solve population problems, fix the environment and have a sustainable future. Nice. Now who said bumming was evil? BTF is one example, for example. Very supportive of gay marriages but when it comes to straight people,including herself and her daughter marriage is irrelevant. Why? Is the qestion I am asking., if marriage means so little to our liberal elite why is it so important gays are allowed to marry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 I just don't believe you can force your beliefs on others. As long as gay people have the right to marry and equality is there in that respect, I would hope that Churches will eventually follow suit(if only to stop their growing isolation), though I realise that could be somewhat naive. So is marriage important or not Andy. Yes or nor will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 It really isn't a christian ceremony though anymore. You are living in the past. They lost ownership of it long ago and if I recall correctly, civil ceremonies are overtaking religious ceremonies in popularity very soon. It is absolutely not a Christian ceremony(it's a social construct as well, not a divine creation). It is in essence when it boils down to it a legal ceremony, but obviously there is a lot of imagery and meaning that comes with it that gay people should absolutely be allowed to share in. Regardless of all the religion bollix is marriage Important or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Personally I feel that gay adoption is the more key issue. Gay marriage is just a matter of semantics, they have civil partnerships but the need to be recognised by the language of an institution that looks to isolate them is seemingly more important then the love they have for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Personally I feel that gay adoption is the more key issue. Gay marriage is just a matter of semantics, they have civil partnerships but the need to be recognised by the language of an institution that looks to isolate them is seemingly more important then the love they have for each other. So do you agree with gay adoption or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 So do you agree with gay adoption or not? I dissagree with it. #can open.... worms everywhere....# In terms of can a gay couple provide a loving environment for a child to grow up in? Yes, of course they can. Can a gay couple provide a balanced environment for a child to grow up in? I don't believe so. The issue isn't a discussion of what is more likely to be dissfunctional. Straight and gay couples are just as capable of being bad environments as the other, it is just my feeling and belief that a child, as a product of a man and woman should be raised as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 What about those who are stuck in an orphanage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 What about those who are stuck in an orphanage? Priority should always be given to a hetrosexual couple. The lack of couples of any sort coming forward now is another matter entirely mind, the hoops I had to jump through just to adopt a cat today! Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 No. Marriage is a christian ceremony, not what we say it is. My views on gays are irrelevant. They want to be recognised by an insitution that sees them as "Unnatural" and "wrong". Doesn't matter what we think, thems the facts. Uh No. Think you will find a few Muslims and Hindus around the world that may disagree with that comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPTCount Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 gayest thread ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Regardless of all the religion bollix is marriage Important or not? To say that though gives marriages some divine importance, which obviously isn't true. What marriage is though, is a way people like to commit to each other(so expression of love) and also a legal contract effectively. This should be open to all. My opinion on marriage is that it isn't the be all and end all and relationships don't need it to function. However, it does carry a lot of symbolic importance in people's minds and it is grossly unfair that not everyone gets to share the in the symbolism of marriage. There are absolutely no reasons why gay people shouldn't be able to marry. I appreciate your argument that 'marriage isn't important today anyways', but it isn't an argument against gay people being allowed to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 No. Marriage is a christian ceremony, not what we say it is. My views on gays are irrelevant. They want to be recognised by an insitution that sees them as "Unnatural" and "wrong". Doesn't matter what we think, thems the facts. Isn't celebacy "unnatural"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Marriage is what we say it is and what we make of it and is a social construct, and churches can only marry because the state says they can. And if you can't see why 2 people of the same sex would want to get married, you are very short sighted indeed. To say that though gives marriages some divine importance, which obviously isn't true. What marriage is though, is a way people like to commit to each other(so expression of love) and also a legal contract effectively. This should be open to all. My opinion on marriage is that it isn't the be all and end all and relationships don't need it to function. However, it does carry a lot of symbolic importance in people's minds and it is grossly unfair that not everyone gets to share the in the symbolism of marriage. There are absolutely no reasons why gay people shouldn't be able to marry. I appreciate your argument that 'marriage isn't important today anyways', but it isn't an argument against gay people being allowed to marry. But don't gay people want it and people like you support it so they can be just like everyone else? They aren't like everyone else, they are gay. What's wrong with just accepting what you are and celebrating it, not trying to change the world and make it fit round you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 But don't gay people want it and people like you support it so they can be just like everyone else? They aren't like everyone else, they are gay. What's wrong with just accepting what you are and celebrating it, not trying to change the world and make it fit round you? No, they are like everyone else. I could go into a Merchant of Venice speech here to illustrate my point, but I won't to save time. But there is absolutely nothing different about gay people at all. Why are they so different that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 (edited) No, they are like everyone else. I could go into a Merchant of Venice speech here to illustrate my point, but I won't to save time. But there is absolutely nothing different about gay people at all. Why are they so different that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. They aren't like everybody else. Why do we have Gay Pride every year? It's to celebrate being gay. To celebrate being different. There's nothing wrong with it. Their brains are different for a start http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 They aren't like everybody else. Why do we have Gay Pride every year? It's to celebrate being gay. To celebrate being different. Yet they wanted to be treated the same, to be accepted as normal. Gay Pride parades will only perpetuate the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Priority should always be given to a hetrosexual couple. The lack of couples of any sort coming forward now is another matter entirely mind, the hoops I had to jump through just to adopt a cat today! Jesus. Surely priority should be given to suitable heterosexual couples? If none want to adopt then give the gays a chance is what I say. Otherwise I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Yet they wanted to be treated the same, to be accepted as normal. Gay Pride parades will only perpetuate the difference. Wanting it both ways. I find it very odd that on the one hand people will say that marriage is an out of date Insitution and people don't need it yet on the other hand it's very important gay people can marry. Why does it suddenly take on such importance if marriage doesnt mean anything to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Wanting it both ways. I find it very odd that on the one hand people will say that marriage is an out of date Insitution and people don't need it yet on the other hand it's very important gay people can marry. Why does it suddenly take on such importance if marriage doesnt mean anything to them? This is getting tedious. Marriage isn't important (and it's only civil weddings BTW) however, regardless of the views of the importance of marriage people shouldn't have the CHOICE removed because of their sexuality. Straight/gay should have the CHOICE to get married if they so wish to. It's really not a very hard concept to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Plus, if it fu.cks off the Catholic church it must be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Being straight, I don't understand gays, gay rights, gay views, gay wants and needs and never will do. I don't want to understand as the sight of two men kissing on TV makes me feel sick, but if they want the choice to get married in a church, then fine, they should have that. Just don't bother inviting me, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Surely priority should be given to suitable heterosexual couples? If none want to adopt then give the gays a chance is what I say. Otherwise I agree with you. Surely priority should be given to the most suitable couple, regardless of sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 They aren't like everybody else. Why do we have Gay Pride every year? It's to celebrate being gay. To celebrate being different. There's nothing wrong with it. Their brains are different for a start http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm I believe that sexuality is a genetic based thing, so if you want to go down to genetics, then sure, they are different. BUT, we're all different. I have brown hair, someone else might have blonde hair(both sexuality and hair colour are gene based). So what? My genetics are slightly different to yours and everyone else on here. But for all intents and purposes, we are both human beings and function pretty much exactly the same way. Your argument of they shouldn't be able to marry because some people say marriage isn't important is VERY weak as well, as it should be choice based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 (edited) I believe that sexuality is a genetic based thing, so if you want to go down to genetics, then sure, they are different. BUT, we're all different. I have brown hair, someone else might have blonde hair(both sexuality and hair colour are gene based). So what? My genetics are slightly different to yours and everyone else on here. But for all intents and purposes, we are both human beings and function pretty much exactly the same way. Your argument of they shouldn't be able to marry because some people say marriage isn't important is VERY weak as well, as it should be choice based. So are you now saying gay people are different? Where have I said they shouldn't be allowed to marry? Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 So are you now saying gay people are different? Where have I said they shouldn't be allowed to marry? No, I said if you go down to some silly genetic level(and sexuality is derived from your DNA), then yes they are different, but we are ALL different in our genes(and it means nothing, as I said I have brown hair, someone else might have blonde hair). My genes are different to your genes. All your difference point does is illustrate how indifferent we all are really, and that there is absolutely no choice in being gay and therefore it is absolutely unfair to discriminate based on sexuality and so we must allow equal marriage. You are arguing(probably playing devils advocate) against me, so I just assumed you are against it. What is your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 BTF is one example, for example. Very supportive of gay marriages but when it comes to straight people,including herself and her daughter marriage is irrelevant. Why? Is the qestion I am asking., if marriage means so little to our liberal elite why is it so important gays are allowed to marry? I'll bite, but Adriansfc already answered youe 'question'... the 'liberal elite' will consist people with the full spectrum of attitude towards marriage, from 'dont care for it as I want to **** anything that moves', to the staunchly married because the church says its right.... being supportive of gay marriage? Matriage has feck all to do with it, its being supportive of equal rights for all... very simple Turkish, and you know it, another classic, lets wind up and get a few bites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Surely priority should be given to suitable heterosexual couples? If none want to adopt then give the gays a chance is what I say. Otherwise I agree with you. Yes, I would have hoped that "suitable" would have been a given to my statement. Obviously people should be correctly vetted ahead of adoption. However, getting people, any people to adopt full stop right now is an issue. Instinctively though I would never want to see a gay couple adopt ahead of a hetrosexual couple and would have reservations about even a stable, loving and otherwise seemingly suitable gay couple adopt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pele Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 'No. Marriage is a christian ceremony, not what we say it is. My views on gays are irrelevant. They want to be recognised by an insitution that sees them as "Unnatural" and "wrong". Doesn't matter what we think, thems the facts' posted by Gemmel THis is WRONG the Church does not see gays as unnatural and wrong they condemn the sin not the sinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 No, I said if you go down to some silly genetic level(and sexuality is derived from your DNA), then yes they are different, but we are ALL different in our genes(and it means nothing, as I said I have brown hair, someone else might have blonde hair). My genes are different to your genes. All your difference point does is illustrate how indifferent we all are really, and that there is absolutely no choice in being gay and therefore it is absolutely unfair to discriminate based on sexuality and so we must allow equal marriage. You are arguing(probably playing devils advocate) against me, so I just assumed you are against it. What is your opinion? I personally couldn't give a toss either way. If they want to get married then them. The question I posed was if so many of you think it's not important to get married why is it so important to some of you that gay people to be allowed to? Why be "all for it"? Why not just say it doesn't matter, which it doesn't when it's straight couples Apparantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 I personally couldn't give a toss either way. If they want to get married then them. The question I posed was if so many of you think it's not important to get married why is it so important to some of you that gay people to be allowed to? Why be "all for it"? Why not just say it doesn't matter, which it doesn't when it's straight couples Apparantly. I've never expressed such an extreme version of that opinion though. I've said from the beginning that it is a matter of choice and that choice should be open to gay people and straight people. VFTT expressed it well earlier I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 My Husband works away for 6 months of the year and people always ask me how our marriage works!!! It just does, we have a fab time when he is here and he spoils me rotten. I like my own company though so not really an issue being on my own - oh I forgot, I also have his bank card when he is away!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 I've never expressed such an extreme version of that opinion though. I've said from the beginning that it is a matter of choice and that choice should be open to gay people and straight people. VFTT expressed it well earlier I believe. Err, yes you have. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?36425-Gay-Marriage You compared it to the abolition of slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Err, yes you have. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?36425-Gay-Marriage You compared it to the abolition of slavery. No, I said we'll all look back and see how unfair and discriminative we were retrospectively(like we do for slavery). I didn't compare the banning of marriage to gays to the hardships(that's putting it lightly) people who were enslaved went through. It is important though that we are equal on this. There is absolutely no reason why gays should not be allowed to marry, as I have reiterated many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 No, I said we'll all look back and see how unfair and discriminative we were retrospectively(like we do for slavery). I didn't compare the banning of marriage to gays to the hardships(that's putting it lightly) people who were enslaved went through. It is important though that we are equal on this. There is absolutely no reason why gays should not be allowed to marry, as I have reiterated many times before. Why is it so important? Why can't straight people have marriage as their thing and gay people have civil partnerships as theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Why is it so important? Why can't straight people have marriage as their thing and gay people have civil partnerships as theirs? Because it says that straight peoples relationships mean more somehow. It's just basic equality. I can't help but feel we are going in circles here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9Saint Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 A lot of gay couples do not care about gay marriage, what is important is having equal rights - this has been addressed by Civil Partnerships. David Cameron was crazy to bring the whole gay marriage issue up - now it is looking increasingly unlikely to happen it is going to cause a huge backlash. I am guessing even if gay marriage was legalised, civil partnerships will remain as not everyone wants to have the "marriage" tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Because it says that straight peoples relationships mean more somehow. It's just basic equality. I can't help but feel we are going in circles here. It doesn't though does it. We've been told many times people don't need a bit of paper to make their relationship mean more, but if they do gays have civil partnerships. Are you saying these are less important than marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 It doesn't though does it. We've been told many times people don't need a bit of paper to make their relationship mean more, but if they do gays have civil partnerships. Are you saying these are less important than marriage? Not legally I believe, but don't underestimate the power of semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Right, speaking as someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS - my Brother is gay and married, however they are now separated and have to be for 2 years before a divorce is granted (even though one of them has admitted complete fault) they have the same legalities as hetrosexual marriages (in this country anyway) and that was a CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 May, 2012 Share Posted 13 May, 2012 Right, speaking as someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS - my Brother is gay and married, however they are now separated and have to be for 2 years before a divorce is granted (even though one of them has admitted complete fault) they have the same legalities as hetrosexual marriages (in this country anyway) and that was a CP. Indeed, it is the same legally. But semantics are important in my opinion, and most gay people I know express this to me. It's just basic equality really. Everyone has the chance to access the same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Indeed, it is the same legally. But semantics are important in my opinion, and most gay people I know express this to me. It's just basic equality really. Everyone has the chance to access the same stuff. I want to be able to have a civil partnership then. Because i want to be the same as gay people. Well i want the right to have a civil partnership. In fact i'd go as far as to say, Civil Partnerships for straight people, i'm all for it. And in years to come well look back on it and realise how stupid it is, just like slavery. As a straight person i am being discriminated against. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 'No. Marriage is a christian ceremony, not what we say it is. My views on gays are irrelevant. They want to be recognised by an insitution that sees them as "Unnatural" and "wrong". Doesn't matter what we think, thems the facts' posted by Gemmel THis is WRONG the Church does not see gays as unnatural and wrong they condemn the sin not the sinner! Again, sorry. Wrong Be careful in how you generalise. Theological Scholars have been arguing this since the dawn of time The Quran gives a debatable statement http://www.muslim-marriage-guide.com/islamic-marriage.html Quran gives its philosophy on Islamic Marriage as:“And among His Signs is this that He created for you spouses of your own kind, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy for one another: verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.” (Quran 30:21) Marriage is an established institution of the society. How did it start...? There is no written record. However, institution of marriage is found in the oldest recorded history of human beings. It involves sexual relationship between a man and a woman which is socially and legally accepted. But all marriages are not alike... Name a society and you can identify a different mode of marriage. The degree of variation is so high that it is almost impossible to reach a single line definition of marriage. But most of the recognized marriages cause a family, destined to regeneration and create rights and obligations. An Islamic Marriage is a marriage which is recognized by Quran as valid. Like other issues, the Muslims are not agreed on one mode of Islamic marriage. Different cultures have been allowing different kinds of marriage contract without bothering too much about the real philosophy of Islamic marriage. There is no ambiguity in Quran but in the practice and Muslim Marriage jurisprudence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 I want to be able to have a civil partnership then. Because i want to be the same as gay people. Well i want the right to have a civil partnership. In fact i'd go as far as to say, Civil Partnerships for straight people, i'm all for it. And in years to come well look back on it and realise how stupid it is, just like slavery. As a straight person i am being discriminated against. FACT. In not quite so extreme words, because straight people already have access to Marriage... I agree with you, there should be marriage for all, or access to civil partnerships and marriage for all. In fact, there are straight people in association with gay rights groups fighting for this already. However, you have still failed to come up with a convincing argument why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. May I suggest that this is because there aren't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Right, speaking as someone who ACTUALLY KNOWS - my Brother is gay and married, however they are now separated and have to be for 2 years before a divorce is granted (even though one of them has admitted complete fault) they have the same legalities as hetrosexual marriages (in this country anyway) and that was a CP. "one of them" Isn't that a little homophobic Jill? What happened, did he stick his toad in someone else's hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2012 In not quite so extreme words, because straight people already have access to Marriage... I agree with you, there should be marriage for all, or access to civil partnerships and marriage for all. In fact, there are straight people in association with gay rights groups fighting for this already. However, you have still failed to come up with a convincing argument why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. May I suggest that this is because there aren't any. I have never said they shouldn't be allowed too. For one considers themselves so intellgent you seem to struggle to understand peoples views that dont fit with your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Maybe we could re name Marriages that end up in continual bickering Uncivil Partnerships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Something not widely known - in most European Christian countries, a church wedding is NOT a legally binding wedding. Here in Austria you have to have a civil wedding first, and the church wedding comes afterwards (usually on the same morning). Therefore its more about union in front of God with the church's blessings. Therefore, I am of the opinion that all LEGAL weddings should have equal LEGAL status, so if a nations parliament legalises same-sex weddings it should have equal LEGAL status as that of hetero weddings. The follow-up church service should stay the same - restricted to only hetero couples, since that is the beliefs of the church, the houses of which these services take place in, and no amount of pressure group activity should be allowed to change that. If the CoE permits church services for same-sex couples (the RC church, Islam and Judaism will never permit it), imo that denomination has ceased to be credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Also to compare gay and straight people in persecution is stupid. Straight people as a 'group' have never suffered because they are straight. Gay people have been consistently hunted down and persecuted all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 14 May, 2012 Share Posted 14 May, 2012 If churches are allowed not to marry gay people, would they be allowed to refuse to marry coloured people, if they so chose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 14 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2012 Also to compare gay and straight people in persecution is stupid. Straight people as a 'group' have never suffered because they are straight. Gay people have been consistently hunted down and persecuted all over the world. So we should apologies because of what happened before we are born or in countries we dont live in should we? Why cant hetrosexual people have civil partnerships? It's discriminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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