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st marys to expand?


harwellsaint

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To be fair, previous history is no guarantee we will sell out this time round. I tend to think that we will, but basing attendances solely on historical data from 10 years ago is not 100% reliable.

 

I say that because the Premier League has changed a fair bit even since 2005. TV coverage of games has increased, and there are less and less Saturday 3pm kick-offs with the advent of the Europa League. Also, bid invites are going out for season 2013 onwards where the amount of televised games will increase further still, which could impact upon actual attendance figures.

 

You only have to look at Everton (who will show an average attendance figure of around 33K for this season) for evidence that some clubs are experiencing a downturn in the attraction of a matchday ticket.

 

You can take data from multiple sources which can add weight to either side of the argument. Your example of Everton is fair enough but it is just 1 such example. There are probably others but there will also be clubs which are seeing the opposite trend.

 

Televised games don't come for free either. A Sky Sports/ESPN package costs around 60 quid a month. A 600 quid season ticket will cost around 66 quid a month in comparison.

 

I've never had a season ticket but clearly remember finding it difficult to get tickets for many games when we were in the prem. I can't see me strolling up to get tickets anytime I like like I have done over the last 7 years so easily in the future. Not whilst at St Mary's with it's existing capacity anyway.

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You can take data from multiple sources which can add weight to either side of the argument. Your example of Everton is fair enough but it is just 1 such example. There are probably others but there will also be clubs which are seeing the opposite trend.

 

Televised games don't come for free either. A Sky Sports/ESPN package costs around 60 quid a month. A 600 quid season ticket will cost around 66 quid a month in comparison.

 

I've never had a season ticket but clearly remember finding it difficult to get tickets for many games when we were in the prem. I can't see me strolling up to get tickets anytime I like like I have done over the last 7 years so easily in the future. Not whilst at St Mary's with it's existing capacity anyway.

 

As I said; I think we'll sell out a lot of games. Especially the early season games, and due to the fact there's a feel-good factor at the moment that is unprecedented for some of the younger generation.

 

I am interested to see how attendances hold up throughout the whole season; particularly against the sides such as Wigan, Fulham, West Brom, Stoke etc against the likes of which we often didn't sell out when in the PL last time round. Its a different league now, with a different economic situation. I also think ticket prices could have a significant effect, so we'll see what happens.

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Would have thought it's in our interest to do it soon if we can get the go ahead. I though we had the stadium built so that it could be extended to 48,000 if required. The only issue I could see is potential traffic gridlock and oarking problems.

 

That is of course because it is not near easily accessible Rail and Road Air or Pedestrian access

 

Just look at a map of Southampton to see how restricted the St Mary's is. Great stadium built in the wrong place IMHO

Edited by SaintRichmond
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My point is that SFC's ground should be bang in the middle of town, as per St Mary's. Pubs, stations, houses are all within walking distance. It would be a disgrace to move to a souless, dullard area like your Reading's or your Brighton's when we can increase St Mary's.

 

I agree in principle, but the reality is that the surrounding area is a major drawback/hindrance. Those on foot OK possibly, but getting to the stadium area by car or train is by no means easy or ideal. Ther only thing they havn't tried is ferrying in via the river Itchen

Also getting away from the St Mary's area after the match is also time consuming and restrictive, and that happens from 24000 gates and upwards.

As per usual, the council have had their collective heads stuck up their collective rectums. The Romans would cringe if they saw a road map of the area

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Yes its part of the footbal legacy in this country having city centre grounds, and where its been possible to expand these over time, many clubs have done just that - apart from those that realised the value of innnercity land and cashed in to help pay for a newer, larger stadium. Al teh arguments for rtaining a cty centre locatuion are known and I think understood, but like all these things there are pros and cons.

 

I think it all depends on design, infrastructure routes and facilities to ensure you ont lose all the association with the past - sticking up a stadia in the middle of a hideous out of town retail park (Bolton) etc is not exactly appealing to anyone, except those that 'drop the Mrs of to do a nice bit of shopping' whilst they go the match for 87 minutes to get back to the car to beat the rush...

 

Again it comes down to money - no one who has been to a night game at the Allianz Area, lit up in Red, could say its souless - cost a packet mind, but shows that you can evolve and create the nxt part of your history IF you have the imgaination and cash to do something unique - yes its out of town, but the links are good and the the facilities at the venue fantastic... OK so its no pub, but things can evolve and still be good... al chnage is not alwasy bad.

 

allianz.jpg

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I agree in principle, but the reality is that the surrounding area is a major drawback/hindrance. Those on foot OK possibly, but getting to the stadium area by car or train is by no means easy or ideal. Ther only thing they havn't tried is ferrying in via the river Itchen

Also getting away from the St Mary's area after the match is also time consuming and restrictive, and that happens from 24000 gates and upwards.

As per usual, the council have had their collective heads stuck up their collective rectums. The Romans would cringe if they saw a road map of the area

 

Yeah agreed. If we were to expand, the council would need to pull their finger out and complete a number of tasks to ensure that St Mary's is more accessible; a relevant amount of effort put in to match the revenue/interest that Saints being in the PL brings to the city of Southampton. (I think that report stated that we are the biggest attraction in the city, or some such phrase).

 

As for people worrying about being in people/traffic jams for 10 mins minutes after a game. Personally, i couldn't give a **** and would rather that than an out of city stadium that has stunning exit routes. If people don't go to games for that reason i'd be questioning their passion as fans of SFC.

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I agree in principle, but the reality is that the surrounding area is a major drawback/hindrance. Those on foot OK possibly, but getting to the stadium area by car or train is by no means easy or ideal. Ther only thing they havn't tried is ferrying in via the river Itchen

Also getting away from the St Mary's area after the match is also time consuming and restrictive, and that happens from 24000 gates and upwards.

As per usual, the council have had their collective heads stuck up their collective rectums. The Romans would cringe if they saw a road map of the area

 

 

Have you ever been to out of town stadiums like Reading or Bolton

 

at Reading if you travel by train the last time I went there it was impossible to get a bus back to the railway station which is 4 miles away and it takes ages to get out of the car parks.

 

At Bolton if you drive it's Ok but it's very difficult if you travel by train with only one small train every half hour to get you away from the ground.

 

As thousands currently travel by train to St Mary's, which is only 20min walk at most from Central Station and a similar walk to St Deny's, Bitterne or Woolston moving to somewhere out of town would cause even more congestion.

 

Also out of towns don't generally offer the range of pubs, places to eat that city centre ground offer.

 

St Mary's may have a few issues regards traffic and parking but I can assure you that out of town grounds have even more problems and than we experince at St Mary's and in Southampton I love the way the whole town comes to life on match days.

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Have you ever been to out of town stadiums like Reading or Bolton

 

at Reading if you travel by train the last time I went there it was impossible to get a bus back to the railway station which is 4 miles away and it takes ages to get out of the car parks.

 

At Bolton if you drive it's Ok but it's very difficult if you travel by train with only one small train every half hour to get you away from the ground.

 

As thousands currently travel by train to St Mary's, which is only 20min walk at most from Central Station and a similar walk to St Deny's, Bitterne or Woolston moving to somewhere out of town would cause even more congestion.

 

Also out of towns don't generally offer the range of pubs, places to eat that city centre ground offer.

 

St Mary's may have a few issues regards traffic and parking but I can assure you that out of town grounds have even more problems and than we experince at St Mary's and in Southampton I love the way the whole town comes to life on match days.

Well said and the more I think about it having a stadium in the city is better than an out of town location. Because of the local parking issues at st Mary forces the crowd to disperse in all directions, this is actually a good thing as you dont get as big queues of cars trying to use the same road. The same goes for the railway stations, having a choice of 4 and a 15min+ walk to get to them doesn't cause the mass stampede and queues you'd get if a station was on st Mary's door step. The same also goes for the choice of pubs available, it makes it easier to get to the bar when there is so many to choose from.

All this actually makes expansion easier as the citys infrastructure could absorb the extra capacity easier than a out of town stadium with limited parking, public transport and road network.

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That is of course because it is not near easily accessible Rail and Road Air or Pedestrian access

 

Just look at a map of Southampton to see how restricted the St Mary's is. Great stadium built in the wrong place IMHO

 

It is, in fact, in a great location if they just build a fecking platform outside - how irritating is it to watch the stadium go sailing by as you approach by train!?!!! - and either introduced a new bridge or widened the existing one back onto Northam Road!

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That is of course because it is not near easily accessible Rail and Road Air or Pedestrian access

 

Just look at a map of Southampton to see how restricted the St Mary's is. Great stadium built in the wrong place IMHO

 

I don't think it would massively increase grid locking as all the parking around the stadium is already taken so the extra cars would have to park further away. I quite often park up the avenue and never have a problem getting way if I don't stop for a beer on the way out. A bit of a long walk I know but better than being stuck in a traffic jam IMO.

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Well said and the more I think about it having a stadium in the city is better than an out of town location. Because of the local parking issues at st Mary forces the crowd to disperse in all directions, this is actually a good thing as you dont get as big queues of cars trying to use the same road. The same goes for the railway stations, having a choice of 4 and a 15min+ walk to get to them doesn't cause the mass stampede and queues you'd get if a station was on st Mary's door step. The same also goes for the choice of pubs available, it makes it easier to get to the bar when there is so many to choose from.

All this actually makes expansion easier as the citys infrastructure could absorb the extra capacity easier than a out of town stadium with limited parking, public transport and road network.

 

If you want a business opportunity, open a cafe or two - wine bar, sweet shop in that row of cracking looking but completely boarded up shops from the King Alfred back up whatever that street is called into town...! I know your market is 30,000 every fortnight only for the football season, but still, you must be able to make it pay...

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It is, in fact, in a great location if they just build a fecking platform outside - how irritating is it to watch the stadium go sailing by as you approach by train!?!!! - and either introduced a new bridge or widened the existing one back onto Northam Road!

 

They definitely need to sort out the foot bridge or build another one. I'm not sure a local station would be a great idea. Would be very expensive to build, would hardly get used on non match days and could be a nightmare when thousands are trying to get on a few trains. A bit of a walk to 4 stations where a lot will stop in pubs on the way really takes the load off of the congestion.

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If you want a business opportunity, open a cafe or two - wine bar, sweet shop in that row of cracking looking but completely boarded up shops from the King Alfred back up whatever that street is called into town...! I know your market is 30,000 every fortnight only for the football season, but still, you must be able to make it pay...

 

Or build those into a stadium expansion giving the club more revenue. Another tier naturally gives a larger stadium footprint so the floor space needs to be used for something. Suggest it to NC. Let him build it and you can lease the floor space :)

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They definitely need to sort out the foot bridge or build another one. I'm not sure a local station would be a great idea. Would be very expensive to build, would hardly get used on non match days and could be a nightmare when thousands are trying to get on a few trains. A bit of a walk to 4 stations where a lot will stop in pubs on the way really takes the load off of the congestion.

 

Good point, never thought about it that way...

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Or build those into a stadium expansion giving the club more revenue. Another tier naturally gives a larger stadium footprint so the floor space needs to be used for something. Suggest it to NC. Let him build it and you can lease the floor space :)

 

I don't need another business thanks - I barely have time to post on here running the two I've got! ;)

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I don't need another business thanks - I barely have time to post on here running the two I've got! ;)

What about relocating them to the stadium expansion. Of course I am joking but it's these type of, things I think are needed to make an expansion viable. If other revenues can be made from an expansion other than just bums on seats it doesn't seem as expansive to do.

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They definitely need to sort out the foot bridge or build another one. I'm not sure a local station would be a great idea. Would be very expensive to build, would hardly get used on non match days and could be a nightmare when thousands are trying to get on a few trains. A bit of a walk to 4 stations where a lot will stop in pubs on the way really takes the load off of the congestion.

 

The best thing to do with the footbridge is angle it more and slope it down.

 

The right angles and staors down are natural chokepoints.

 

I'd put a proper elevated curved walkway from St Marys street that curves round and then slopes down (instead of stairs) into the ground.

 

 

Can't realisticly see a station ever taking off.

 

The majority of fans are local or drive down, its only away fans that typically come on the train in large numbers and spunking out god knows how many millions for network rail to construct a platform that is at best going to be used once every 2 weeks for 40 week sof the year is frnakly a waste of money.

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It'd make a difference though. Look at our support at Boro, being on TV make a difference when people are asked to shell out big money. Not all German tickets are cheap, but yes they do have some very, very low prices, particularly on the terracing.

 

Its nopt based soley on a financial decision.

 

I could have afforded to go to boro, but I didn't. Why? Becaus eI couldn't be 4rsed with the travelling involved, I do enough of it as it is and driving the length of the country didnt appeal to me.

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Actually I've just realised that we are looking at this as fans and not from the clubs (NCs) point of view.

A large proportion of my money I spend on a match day isn't spent at SMS. I pay for parking, beer and food all in town which is great for our local economy but not for the club. Does NC really care about congestion etc. is this why he would consider a stadium move? At the JPT final I spent a lot on beer and food at Wembley. Some might dis agree but NC only cares about the club as a business with success and the premier league the main money making revenues.

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The majority of fans are local or drive down, its only away fans that typically come on the train in large numbers and spunking out god knows how many millions for network rail to construct a platform that is at best going to be used once every 2 weeks for 40 week sof the year is frnakly a waste of money.

 

you obviously don't travel by train

 

The trains to and from Salisbury carry loads of Saints fans to and from games, can often be standing room only on way down, with loads of supporters from Gillingham, Sherborne in the west and Warminster, Trowbridge, Bath and Bristol too.

 

 

Loads of fans come up on train from Bournemouth and Weymouth na down form Andover, Basingstoke and Winchester too.

 

Many come in from Fareham in the east

 

In the past the majority of season ticket holders didn't actually live in Southampton, I'm not sure if that's still the case but I can assure you a significant number travel to home games on the train

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The majority of fans are local or drive down, its only away fans that typically come on the train in large numbers and spunking out god knows how many millions for network rail to construct a platform that is at best going to be used once every 2 weeks for 40 week sof the year is frnakly a waste of money.

 

you obviously don't travel by train

 

The trains to and from Salisbury carry loads of Saints fans to and from games, can often be standing room only on way down, with loads of supporters from Gillingham, Sherborne in the west and Warminster, Trowbridge, Bath and Bristol too.

 

 

Loads of fans come up on train from Bournemouth and Weymouth na down form Andover, Basingstoke and Winchester too.

 

Many come in from Fareham in the east

 

In the past the majority of season ticket holders didn't actually live in Southampton, I'm not sure if that's still the case but I can assure you a significant number travel to home games on the train

 

Surely that adds to the argument that if we expand and more travel by train having one local station would cause major mass queues and you'll still have to change at Southampton. So all you'd have is a station that only gets used once a fortnight that runs two lots of extra shuttle trains as itll take to long to clear the platforms otherwise. Where would these come from?

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Southampton central better disperses fans as fans would get on various different trains at different times. A local station would mean most fans wanting to get on the same train to Southampton central at he same time.

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Its nopt based soley on a financial decision.

 

I could have afforded to go to boro, but I didn't. Why? Becaus eI couldn't be 4rsed with the travelling involved, I do enough of it as it is and driving the length of the country didnt appeal to me.

 

But fans like you who can't be bothered to attend one of the biggest games in our history because it involved a little bit of effort are the type of fan we could do without anyway. Much like Sotonjoe.

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But fans like you who can't be bothered to attend one of the biggest games in our history because it involved a little bit of effort are the type of fan we could do without anyway. Much like Sotonjoe.

 

That's a bit harsh. If someone was a ST holder and had been to a few local away games in a season, are you really saying you wouldn't want them as a fan if they don't want to drive 7 hours to Middlesbrough? I'm sure there were many passionate, dedicated fans that didnt want to make that journey.

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That's a bit harsh. If someone was a ST holder and had been to a few more local away games in a season, are you really saying you wouldn't want them as a fan if they don't want to drive 7 hours to Middlesbrough? I'm sure there were many passionate, dedicated fans that didnt want to make that journey.

 

Passionate and dedicated as long as it's within a 2hr radius of them.

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Passionate and dedicated as long as it's within a 2hr radius of them.

 

Yeah why not?

I'd call any fan that holds a season ticket and makes the effort to go to some away games dedicated. I certainly wouldn't criticise them because they didn't go to an away game 300-400 miles away. I'm sure there were fans at Middlesbrough that didn't have a ST. Are they more or less dedicated?

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Expansion or relocation only makes sense if you are relatively sure you are going to fill it. It isn't just a case of 'build it and they will come.'

 

Surviving for one year doesn't mean anything. Wolves survived for 2 seasons, getting relegated in their third season. They spent money on their squad and still got relegated. They've put the second phase of their expansion on hold and probably won't fill the ground next season.

 

Look at Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton. They can't fill their stadia, despite being in the Premiership for a while.

 

The question of re-development vs relocation depends on how big you wanted the stadium to be. If you were just adding a few thousand and increasing the corporate area, then adding a tier to the Itchen Stand (if practical) would be the best option. If you wanted to increase capacity to 60,000 then the difference in cost between the two options would be marginal and relocation would make sense.

 

Realistically, we need to be selling out every game for a season, with a high percentage of the ground as season ticket holders before any expansion should go ahead.

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coventry are a better model for us compared with bolton or reading. It's built on a junction just off the M6, and much newer, they are building a station next to the ground (should be open for the olympics...) and already have a hotel, casino, bar and restaurant, car showrooms, a costa, and **** loads of parking. and it's built next to a **** off tesco.

 

i prefer inner city grounds but ours isn't connected well at all, the station is 15 mins away and parking is a nightmare. doesn't help that Southampton is congested to **** anyway, and there's always some ***** trying to overtake you on the avenue or thomas lewis way. i hate driving in southampton , much more than london.

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I agree in principle, but the reality is that the surrounding area is a major drawback/hindrance. Those on foot OK possibly, but getting to the stadium area by car or train is by no means easy or ideal. Ther only thing they havn't tried is ferrying in via the river Itchen

Also getting away from the St Mary's area after the match is also time consuming and restrictive, and that happens from 24000 gates and upwards.

As per usual, the council have had their collective heads stuck up their collective rectums. The Romans would cringe if they saw a road map of the area

 

Have you seen the Hythe and IOW ferries on match days all full

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Expansion or relocation only makes sense if you are relatively sure you are going to fill it. It isn't just a case of 'build it and they will come.'

 

Surviving for one year doesn't mean anything. Wolves survived for 2 seasons, getting relegated in their third season. They spent money on their squad and still got relegated. They've put the second phase of their expansion on hold and probably won't fill the ground next season.

 

Look at Blackburn, Wigan and Bolton. They can't fill their stadia, despite being in the Premiership for a while.

 

The question of re-development vs relocation depends on how big you wanted the stadium to be. If you were just adding a few thousand and increasing the corporate area, then adding a tier to the Itchen Stand (if practical) would be the best option. If you wanted to increase capacity to 60,000 then the difference in cost between the two options would be marginal and relocation would make sense.

 

Realistically, we need to be selling out every game for a season, with a high percentage of the ground as season ticket holders before any expansion should go ahead.

 

can you please stop it with this sensible and realistic approach. We just need to expand. Build it now. Everyone knows we have 10s of thousands of people living below the london- Birmingham - Liverpool line that are dancing in the streets at our promotion as they can now come to Southampton to see premier league football.

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coventry are a better model for us compared with bolton or reading. It's built on a junction just off the M6, and much newer, they are building a station next to the ground (should be open for the olympics...) and already have a hotel, casino, bar and restaurant, car showrooms, a costa, and **** loads of parking. and it's built next to a **** off tesco.

 

i prefer inner city grounds but ours isn't connected well at all, the station is 15 mins away and parking is a nightmare. doesn't help that Southampton is congested to **** anyway, and there's always some ***** trying to overtake you on the avenue or thomas lewis way. i hate driving in southampton , much more than london.

 

Bolton and Reading are both built built close to moterway junctions, and has a station similar to the one Coventry are planning to build and it just doesn't work, apart from bar in casino or those in the ground pubs are at least a mile away form the ground.

 

Inner city ground for more anytime rather than a souless out of town ground

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I think St Mary's is in a cracking place and much prefer city centre grounds. Only time will tell if we need to expend to 40,000. Personally, I would like us to and feel we need to.

 

Train station is a no go as far as I'm concerned. By the time I've queued up to get on the train, I could have walked to Central and had a pint on the way.

 

Traffic is an issue, but surely it's the council's job to find a solution to that, Maybe park and ride, I dont know. But surely it's in everyone's interests for an extra 8,000 people to come into the city every home game. 3 or 4 times a season my Mrs and Daughter come up with us and go shopping whilst we're at the game, and I'm sure others are the same. I love away days in London and other city centre grounds, far more than grounds built in the middle of nowhere. Provided we get the away fans in and out safely, the city should welcome supporters with open arms. How much revenue do supporters bring into the cities pubs and food outlets each Sat?

 

The only supporters that will have issues are ones that want to come in, watch football and drive stright home. The rest can go to pubs, for something to eat, and make their own way home at different times. The way I look at it, if you want to rush home and sit in traffic, that's your decision. The people shopping ect and not attending the match, must know what time the game ends and leave the City accordingly.

 

Long term, I would love the council and the club to work together and devolop the area around the stadium. It could keep Marcus' family interested as I'm sure they will be a lot of money to be made if that happens. But, at the end of the day people line NC know far more about it than us, and I trust the guy to deliver what is best for the club.

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Yeah why not?

I'd call any fan that holds a season ticket and makes the effort to go to some away games dedicated. I certainly wouldn't criticise them because they didn't go to an away game 300-400 miles away. I'm sure there were fans at Middlesbrough that didn't have a ST. Are they more or less dedicated?

True. But then our support at Boro is a worthwhile question in terms of expansion. Our biggest game in many, many years at the time and we only sold 75% of available tickets.
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True. But then our support at Boro is a worthwhile question in terms of expansion. Our biggest game in many, many years at the time and we only sold 75% of available tickets.

 

It was a 600 miles round trip during a recession for a game live on TV, what did you expect? 2,922 at Middlesbrough is a very good turnout.

 

What about the 5,800 we took to Place or 3,200 we took to Peterborough in the same month of the Middlesbrough game. I don't see you making note of those games in your argument.

 

cherry-picking.jpg

 

Over the last 3 away game of the season all in the same month, Saints averaged 3,966 away fans. That is very impressive and had Palace given a bigger allocation it would have been even higher.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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It was a 600 miles round trip during a recession for a game live on TV, what did you expect? 2,922 at Middlesbrough is a very good turnout.

 

What about the 5,800 we took to Place or 3,200 we took to Peterborough in the same month of the Middlesbrough game. I don't see you making note of those games in your argument.

 

cherry-picking.jpg

 

Over the last 3 away game of the season all in the same month, Saints averaged 3,966 away fans. That is very impressive and had Palace given a bigger allocation it would have been even higher.

What argument? I just stated a fact. I know we took a lot to Palace and Peterborough.
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Lots of good quality sausages and beer........

 

not that your old enough to have beer, you like the germans eh, heres a good idea , why dont you fook off there and do everyone a favour , real fans dont attack supporters behind a keyboard when they pose a good debate, as in this thread before you had a go at me for me spelling, please find another hobby on behalf of all true lifelong saint supporters

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not that your old enough to have beer, you like the germans eh, heres a good idea , why dont you fook off there and do everyone a favour , real fans dont attack supporters behind a keyboard when they pose a good debate, as in this thread before you had a go at me for me spelling, please find another hobby on behalf of all true lifelong saint supporters

 

Is that so...

and your still a ****
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not that your old enough to have beer, you like the germans eh, heres a good idea , why dont you fook off there and do everyone a favour , real fans dont attack supporters behind a keyboard when they pose a good debate, as in this thread before you had a go at me for me spelling, please find another hobby on behalf of all true lifelong saint supporters

 

So here you are having a go at someone from behind your keyboard on behalf of all true lifelong fans who don't do such things, yes?

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Not that you're old enough to have beer. You like the Germans, eh? Here's a good idea, why don't you fook off there and do everyone a favour? Real fans don't attack supporters behind a keyboard when they pose a good debate, as in this thread before you had a go at me for me spelling. Please find another hobby on behalf of all true lifelong Saints supporters.

Wow, you are an angry girl aren't you? Appalling sentence construction too.

 

I think if somebody can't spell properly, then they should face criticism and ultimately be banned from forums and the internet for life.

 

 

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Wow, you are an angry girl aren't you? Appalling sentence construction too.

 

I think if somebody can't spell properly, then they should face criticism and ultimately be banned from forums and the internet for life.

 

 

 

im bored of explaing this, i started a decent thread about a real issue, for which i was insulted for the way i type, so what if i cant spell etc, your missing the point of the thread, but it seems some people are more concerned with spellin and gramer etd

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im bored of explaing this, i started a decent thread about a real issue, for which i was insulted for the way i type, so what if i cant spell etc, your missing the point of the thread, but it seems some people are more concerned with spellin and gramer etd

 

It wasn't really a decent thread though was it. It's been done over and over again and is currently being discussed on the five year plan thread.

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im bored of explaing this, i started a decent thread about a real issue, for which i was insulted for the way i type, so what if i cant spell etc, your missing the point of the thread, but it seems some people are more concerned with spellin and gramer etd

 

Does being insulted on the internet upset you ? :( Will you come and beat me up if I call you an illiterate uber fan loser?

 

The subject has been done over and over and over in recent months and is, as said, being discussed on countless other threads.

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Does being insulted on the internet upset you ? :( Will you come and beat me up if I call you an illiterate uber fan loser?

 

The subject has been done over and over and over in recent months and is, as said, being discussed on countless other threads.

 

So let's just wrap this up then, we are all agreed we need to expand.

Shall I start a new thread regarding how many seats, stands and over what time scale.

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  • 5 years later...

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