New 5 year Plan

[Sour Mash]

Oh no... someone having a laugh... quick, run away... sorry, but I thought this was a response to NCs comment. What the feck is wrong with discussing mad possibilties... and what would be hyperthetically needed to deliver them?

 

Ultimately, I still think this is about striving to be the best - we fail because of lack of effort and graft - then they need a kicking... we fail because of lack of resources, money, club attractiveness, whatever, then at least we can say we did our very best - same principles in all walks of life. Fact that some get angry or laugh at a discussion... seems a bit churlish to me.

Start a new thread then called 'Mad possibilities and how we might achieve them' and we'll all happily chip into that. But that's a completely different subject to this thread.

[Frank's cousin]

Is it me or aren't you the one getting most upset by all this?

 

Upset? NO, Bewildered, yes... frequently as to why some feel the need to be so miserable about something that as unrealistic as it may be, is a simple discussion about the hopes dreams and aspirations that some fans have... I just find it so ironic that that bck in 2002/3, many of the same who now dismiss ambition so lighlty were so vehemently agressve towards the pompous Lowe for not showing any....

[Thedelldays]

Just saying in the radio. That in today's football and on The path it is on. Clubs the size of Blackburn (which is like saints) are never going to be challenging for the top spots unless they have that one freak season

 

 

How true is that

[Frank's cousin]

Start a new thread then called 'Mad possibilities and how we might achieve them' and we'll all happily chip into that. But that's a completely different subject to this thread.

 

Turn of phrase Sour, just a turn of phrase. Has anyone on this thread even remotely suggested that if NC says CL it WILL be our only aim and anything else is failure... Seems to me most were simply trying to work out what would be needed if it was... which is a reasonable point of discussion?

[CB Fry]

Upset? NO' date=' Bewildered, yes... frequently as to why some feel the need to be so miserable about something that as unrealistic as it may be, is a simple discussion about the hopes dreams and aspirations that some fans have... I just find it so ironic that that bck in 2002/3, many of the same who now dismiss ambition so lighlty were so vehemently agressve towards the pompous Lowe for not showing any....[/quote']

 

Quite frankly it's the opposite for me. Just gone through one of the greatest seasons in my lifetime - in terms of wins the greatest - and all people want to wa nk on about is qualifying for the frigging champions league.

 

That, to me, is utterly depressing.

 

And when Lowe was talking about the aim to win the division, as he did at the start of the season we went down, I thought and said it was ridiculous.

[Sour Mash]

Turn of phrase Sour' date=' just a turn of phrase. Has anyone on this thread even remotely suggested that if NC says CL it WILL be our only aim and anything else is failure... Seems to me most were simply trying to work out what would be needed if it was... which is a reasonable point of discussion?[/quote'] So is it a 'mad possibility' or Cortese's plan for Saints? You get more confused by the day on here.

[Frank's cousin]

Just saying in the radio. That in today's football and on The path it is on. Clubs the size of Blackburn (which is like saints) are never going to be challenging for the top spots unless they have that one freak season

 

 

How true is that

 

True, and our chance of a freak season? I mentioned earlier that for us to have a cyclica bash at a top 6 is going to be down to whether we can realise the potential of the Academy and get a freak crop that stays past 16... can teh club be made attractive enough, and rewarding enough to get the best to stay for their first full pro contract?

[Thedelldays]

Not a great chance.

 

Newcastle and everton a few years back had the freak seasons. And their wage bills are huge as they have big players

[Frank's cousin]

So is it a 'mad possibility' or Cortese's plan for Saints? You get more confused by the day on here.

 

Feck knows - all we have to go on is a single quote that was most likely Chairman rhetoric - what spikes the interest in this is simply that after 3 years of quietly going about their business, the club has pulled itself together and is once again investing in infrastructure and building for the future, having dleivered two great seasons - bound to then place teh spotlight on 'what's next? - momentum... how can it be best utilized? Does NC really believe what he said is possible or not? If he does, then like I said above, how the hell does he believe its possible and what would be needed? - speculation and hyperthetica discussion is surely what makes this ...er... fun/interesting/pile of steamin shiedt*

 

*delete based on your mood/general disposition

[Matthew Le God]

Clubs the size of Blackburn (which is like saints)

 

Are they?

 

Blackburn in the Premier League relegated = 22,551

Southampton in the Premier League relegated = 30,610

 

Quite a noticeable difference of 8,000 people when both clubs weren't exactly an attractive proposition to watch. Plus Blackburn has some very cheap tickets.

[Sour Mash]

Are they?

 

Blackburn in the Premier League relegated = 22,551

Southampton in the Premier League relegated = 30,610

 

Quite a noticeable difference of 8,000 people when both clubs weren't exactly an attractive proposition to watch.

Nice work pouncing on that straight away after your Everton debacle.

[Thedelldays]

Blackburn league titles.......

 

Yeah, let's stop there

[Matthew Le God]

Nice work pouncing on that straight away after your Everton debacle.

 

Why was it a debacle?

 

Do you disagree with what I said about Blackburn?

[Matthew Le God]

Blackburn league titles.......

 

Yeah, let's stop there

 

What bearing do league titles in 1912, 1914 and one funded by an owner they no longer have in 1995 have on the size of the club today? Certainly not reflected in their match going fanbase.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Thedelldays]

What bearing do league titles in 1912, 1914 and one funded by an owner they no longer have in 1995 have on the size of the club today?

 

Funded by their owner. Isn't that what we want ours to do to have a pop at the CL?

 

Because it ain't happening any time soon otherwise

 

IMO. Blackburn and saints are of a similar size. Regardless if they get 8k less on average

[Frank's cousin]

Not a great chance.

 

Newcastle and everton a few years back had the freak seasons. And their wage bills are huge as they have big players

 

I know we wanted to push on on in 2003, but looking back, yes we had Neimi, M Svensson, Bridge, but when you look at the rest of that side - Dodd and Claus. Mazza, near the end of their careers, Beatts a freak season when everything just went in, several odd balls such as Fabrice and Anders who never showed the consitency etc... it would have taken major investment to build on that.

 

I place more store on NC stating he wants sustainabilty..self sustainabilty. What that means based on our current experience and thinking is survival places 17-10. I just dont belive that in 3-5 years time that level of 'success' will be enough for NC. If that is the best we can do, cant see him sticking around.

 

As unrealistic as his alleged 'ambitions' may appear, I just believe he will want more and try and deliver it... and therefore, must have some sort of strategy in place - what that is is anyones guess... which I though was the point of this thread... the guessing bit.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Frank's cousin

[Matthew Le God]

IMO. Blackburn and saints are of a similar size. Regardless if they get 8k less on average

 

8,000 people when situations were similar is a significant difference.

[saint si]

I would like to inject a phrase: "continuous improvement".

 

It is a false dichotomy to say we either shoot for the champions league, or we settle for mid-table obscurity. What we must do is continually strive to improve. We have done this in colossal strides over the last 2-3 years, but this will slow down dramatically from hereon, and so now it is all about making continued small steps in the right direction.

 

Success breeds success in football. Winning on the pitch creates interest, drives up revenues, attracts players (etc etc) and it all feeds nicely back to winning on the pitch.

 

But it takes time.

 

We cannot and must not expect any kind of instant overnight success. As football fans, what we can all hope for is that we just keep getting better... and if we're lucky we might get a good cup run or two on the way to provide a short term bonus and injection of momentum. How far can such an approach take us? Who knows. But there is no point in putting a ceiling on it, just like there is no point in saying that anything less than X is not good enough.

 

What I absolutely would not want us to do is to spend beyond our means, win a cup or get to a couple of finals, and then have it all implode around our ears.

 

FWIW, I don't believe we could have a better duo than Cortese and Adkins to drive such a philosophy within the club, and I have no doubt they are already doing so.

[CB Fry]

I would like to inject a phrase: "continuous improvement".

 

It is a false dichotomy to say we either shoot for the champions league, or we settle for mid-table obscurity. What we must do is continually strive to improve. We have done this in colossal strides over the last 2-3 years, but this will slow down dramatically from hereon, and so now it is all about making continued small steps in the right direction.

 

Success breeds success in football. Winning on the pitch creates interest, drives up revenues, attracts players (etc etc) and it all feeds nicely back to winning on the pitch.

 

But it takes time.

 

We cannot and must not expect any kind of instant overnight success. As football fans, what we can all hope for is that we just keep getting better... and if we're lucky we might get a good cup run or two on the way to provide a short term bonus and injection of momentum. How far can such an approach take us? Who knows. But there is no point in putting a ceiling on it, just like there is no point in saying that anything less than X is not good enough.

 

What I absolutely would not want us to do is to spend beyond our means, win a cup or get to a couple of finals, and then have it all implode around our ears.

 

FWIW, I don't believe we could have a better duo than Cortese and Adkins to drive such a philosophy within the club, and I have no doubt they are already doing so.

 

Yep. Fine. Continuous improvement like Everton Fulham or Stoke. None of which have followed the path some on here have in their tiny minds of 16th, 12th, 8th, 6th, 4th in five seasons hitch free no problem.

 

Bumping around in the middle for the next half decade will be fine and will show continuous improvement even if we finish 10th one season and 14th the next.

Edited 8 May, 2012 by CB Fry

[ericb]

Why the fu,ck is anyone comparing us to Everton? In my lifetime they've won leagues, cups, played in Europe regularly and had some of the best players around. Even now they're one of the bigger non top five sides consistently, with spurs top then maybe villa (who are having a bad season) and Newcastle.

 

We are a parochial team, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but the days of clubs like ours being genuinely successful is over. The last ones to do it where Derby, Forest, Blackburn and maybe Ipswich/Sheffield Wednesday.

 

There's a reason when a big buyout happens it happens in London, Manchester or Liverpool, and MLG i mean really big not a clever businessman like Markus big, it's because these cities are known internationally and have a kudos attached to them that most football clubs don't.

 

And it's not just here either, Germany aside (the perfect football model if you ask me), all other major footballing nations are the same. Spain, Italy, France etc.

 

Now there's no doubting that after a few seasons of consolidation we could push on for a cup run or maybe an outside chance of Europe via the league but let's be sensible about this first of all we have to stay in the top flight and that's not going to be easy. Then once we've done that we have to hold onto our better players who are suddenly in the limelight big style, and then, only then can we look at the next step.

 

Cue MLG's aspergers style rant about stadium capacity and many other of the pleasantly deranged spreadsheet players telling me that i'm in someway wrong for not believing The Dream.

 

Oh and one last aside i'd love to know the age differences between those talking about champions league etc (MLAutism aside) and those talking about consolidation and cup runs. I'd hazard a guess it's the older heads that know how these things work and have seen it before that are going for the more realistic later, and those that are a bit over excited about promotion and success in the lower leagues that are going for the former.

[Matthew Le God]

Why the fu,ck is anyone comparing us to Everton? In my lifetime they've won leagues, cups, played in Europe regularly and had some of the best players around. Even now they're one of the bigger non top five sides consistently, with spurs top then maybe villa (who are having a bad season) and Newcastle.

 

We are a parochial team, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but the days of clubs like ours being genuinely successful is over. The last ones to do it where Derby, Forest, Blackburn and maybe Ipswich/Sheffield Wednesday.

 

There's a reason when a big buyout happens it happens in London, Manchester or Liverpool, and MLG i mean really big not a clever businessman like Markus big, it's because these cities are known internationally and have a kudos attached to them that most football clubs don't.

 

And it's not just here either, Germany aside (the perfect football model if you ask me), all other major footballing nations are the same. Spain, Italy, France etc.

 

Now there's no doubting that after a few seasons of consolidation we could push on for a cup run or maybe an outside chance of Europe via the league but let's be sensible about this first of all we have to stay in the top flight and that's not going to be easy. Then once we've done that we have to hold onto our better players who are suddenly in the limelight big style, and then, only then can we look at the next step.

 

Cue MLG's aspergers style rant about stadium capacity and many other of the pleasantly deranged spreadsheet players telling me that i'm in someway wrong for not believing The Dream.

 

Oh and one last aside i'd love to know the age differences between those talking about champions league etc (MLAutism aside) and those talking about consolidation and cup runs. I'd hazard a guess it's the older heads that know how these things work and have seen it before that are going for the more realistic later, and those that are a bit over excited about promotion and success in the lower leagues that are going for the former.

 

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been at St Mary's?

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been owned by someone with vast wealth and ambition?

- For how many years have both of these factors been in place at the same time? And what has happened in that short space of time?

 

As pointed out earlier by someone else, many of the older heads in here are stuck in a smalltime Dell complex. Never before in Southampton's 126 year history have they been in such a strong position in terms of infrastructure at the stadium, academy and training ground or with the ambition and wealth of those running and owning the club.

 

Things are vastly different now to at any point between 1885 and 2009. We are not at The Dell, the likes of Guy Askham and Rupert Lowe aren't running the club.

[John Boy Saint]

to much gets read into these 5 years plan things....nearly every club has them

 

I think you might be getting confused with various clubs securing their immediate financial needs against the next 5 Years Season Ticket sales.

 

[dubai_phil]

Why the fu,ck is anyone comparing us to Everton? In my lifetime they've won leagues, cups, played in Europe regularly and had some of the best players around. Even now they're one of the bigger non top five sides consistently, with spurs top then maybe villa (who are having a bad season) and Newcastle.

 

We are a parochial team, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that but the days of clubs like ours being genuinely successful is over. The last ones to do it where Derby, Forest, Blackburn and maybe Ipswich/Sheffield Wednesday.

 

There's a reason when a big buyout happens it happens in London, Manchester or Liverpool, and MLG i mean really big not a clever businessman like Markus big, it's because these cities are known internationally and have a kudos attached to them that most football clubs don't.

 

And it's not just here either, Germany aside (the perfect football model if you ask me), all other major footballing nations are the same. Spain, Italy, France etc.

 

Now there's no doubting that after a few seasons of consolidation we could push on for a cup run or maybe an outside chance of Europe via the league but let's be sensible about this first of all we have to stay in the top flight and that's not going to be easy. Then once we've done that we have to hold onto our better players who are suddenly in the limelight big style, and then, only then can we look at the next step.

 

Cue MLG's aspergers style rant about stadium capacity and many other of the pleasantly deranged spreadsheet players telling me that i'm in someway wrong for not believing The Dream.

 

Oh and one last aside i'd love to know the age differences between those talking about champions league etc (MLAutism aside) and those talking about consolidation and cup runs. I'd hazard a guess it's the older heads that know how these things work and have seen it before that are going for the more realistic later, and those that are a bit over excited about promotion and success in the lower leagues that are going for the former.

 

OK so you are saying Year One Stay Up. year Two or more Consolidate, then push on for a cup run or an outside chance of Europe.

 

Sorry, but to me that sounds like a PLAN.

 

This whole argument has become so polarised (again) and that is NOT what it is about.

 

Those who say we are not fit to consider anything but survival will be the first to moan when an Academy Graduate of star quality leaves.

 

So you people are advocating continuous stagnation for the next decade? You say you want to improve each season. Well, how many seasons do you expect us to keep improving? We go up we improve every year for 20 years where would we end up? Man Utd sure have not improved this year, nor (so far) have Chelsea.

 

But what on earth is wrong with having a plan to keep improving? To have a goal? Have NONE of you listened to a Nige interview all season? We want to be the best we can be?

 

You simply do NOT do that by saying we just want to be mediocre, we want everything to stay the same, we don't want any more people coming to St Mary's. The 55,000 fans and many more who couldn't get tickets for the JPT weren't Saints fans.

 

Dear new version of Gareth/Alex/Theo, please sign this new contract because next year we will be the same as last year.

 

Wow, what dull lives it must be always hoping to only be the same each year.

 

NOBODY is saying WE WILL BE IN THE CL IN 5 YEARS. What everybody is saying is that NC is a clever Businessman and (unlike the Venky's) is asking "What do we have to do to eventually become a club that can challenge for the CL" Those are two VERY different statements. The first is insane PR drivel. The SECOND is about carrying out Research, Establishing Process that will find the best Youngsters in the World, PLANNING to develop OVER TIME an Income structure that allows you to be Sustainable AND still allow you to pay "Competitive" salaries.

 

IF we have to pay 50k a week salaries in 10 years time (even IF it is only due to Hyper Inflation) then perhaps a WISE man would work out ways to have the INCOME (TV Gate receipts Foreign Tours Merchandising) in order to afford that. Hell perhaps the PLAN includes producing 6 AOC's per season and selling 4 of them.

 

Sport is a COMPETITIVE environment. You seek every possible improvement all the time. Clubs like Saints under Lowe that become complacent and lazy and only aim for Mediocrity (or Shareholder return) ALWAYS fail

[dubai_phil]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessicahagy/2012/02/28/the-six-enemies-of-greatness-and-happiness/

 

1) Availability

We often settle for what’s available, and what’s available isn’t always great. “Because it was there,” is an okay reason to climb a mountain, but not a very good reason to take a job or a free sample at the supermarket.

 

2) Ignorance

If we don’t know how to make something great, we simply won’t. If we don’t know that greatness is possible, we won’t bother attempting it. All too often, we literally do not know any better than good enough.

3) Committees

Nothing destroys a good idea faster than a mandatory consensus. The lowest common denominator is never a high standard.

 

4) Comfort

Why pursue greatness when you’ve already got 324 channels and a recliner? Pass the dip and forget about your grand designs.

5) Momentum

If you’ve been doing what you’re doing for years and it’s not-so-great, you are in a rut. Many people refer to these ruts as careers.

 

6) PassivityThere’s a difference between being agreeable and agreeing to everything. Trust the little internal voice that tells you, “this is a bad idea.”

 

 

lol just found this. Sort of hits a lot of nails on the head

[CanadaSaint]

There's one element of "golden opportunity" (because that's what I think we have) that invalidates a lot of the comparisons with clubs of our size - and therefore invalidates the suggestion that our potential is really limited to what the best of them have achieved in recent years.

 

It's our catchment area.

 

Most (if not all) of the so-called comparable clubs are surrounded by nearby competition. With no disrespect intended to Pompey, Bournemouth and even Brighton (honestly!), we are not. Our potential catchment area is one of the best in the country.

 

This means that our 32,000 capacity could quite easily be viably expanded to 40,000 or even 50,000 - if Cortese is able to keep growing the core of the club, including the academy, the way he has.

 

That growth won't happen overnight but gradually, in a planned fashion, and the potential is there to far exceed what some of the quoted comparable clubs have been able to achieve, so I'm damned if my dreams are going to be limited by their negligible success.

 

And that supports the point that Phil is making above - "PLANNING to develop OVER TIME an Income structure that allows you to be Sustainable AND still allow you to pay "Competitive" salaries."

[dubai_phil]

There's one element of "golden opportunity" (because that's what I think we have) that invalidates a lot of the comparisons with clubs of our size - and therefore invalidates the suggestion that our potential is really limited to what the best of them have achieved in recent years.

 

It's our catchment area.

 

Most (if not all) of the so-called comparable clubs are surrounded by nearby competition. With no disrespect intended to Pompey, Bournemouth and even Brighton (honestly!), we are not. Our potential catchment area is one of the best in the country.

 

This means that our 32,000 capacity could quite easily be viably expanded to 40,000 or even 50,000 - if Cortese is able to keep growing the core of the club, including the academy, the way he has.

 

That growth won't happen overnight but gradually, in a planned fashion, and the potential is there to far exceed what some of the quoted comparable clubs have been able to achieve, so I'm damned if my dreams are going to be limited by their negligible success.

 

And that supports the point that Phil is making above - "PLANNING to develop OVER TIME an Income structure that allows you to be Sustainable AND still allow you to pay "Competitive" salaries."

 

You hit "The Problem" of promotion to the PL on the head.

 

How many people in the Central South of England subscribe to Sky Sports and watch football?

 

It is the uberfan argument that someone with an interest in football should never be allowed to attend a live game, but why shouldn't 500 or 5,000 tickets be available each week to neutrals? (hell they could sit in the Chapel & never be noticed for not singing!). Why shouldn't the Away section be able to hold 5,000 plastic mancs from Basingstoke/London etc?

 

It will not happen overnight but there is something wrong with not seeing how to make it happen

[CB Fry]

There's one element of "golden opportunity" (because that's what I think we have) that invalidates a lot of the comparisons with clubs of our size - and therefore invalidates the suggestion that our potential is really limited to what the best of them have achieved in recent years.

 

It's our catchment area.

 

Most (if not all) of the so-called comparable clubs are surrounded by nearby competition. With no disrespect intended to Pompey, Bournemouth and even Brighton (honestly!), we are not. Our potential catchment area is one of the best in the country.

 

This means that our 32,000 capacity could quite easily be viably expanded to 40,000 or even 50,000 - if Cortese is able to keep growing the core of the club, including the academy, the way he has.

 

That growth won't happen overnight but gradually, in a planned fashion, and the potential is there to far exceed what some of the quoted comparable clubs have been able to achieve, so I'm damned if my dreams are going to be limited by their negligible success.

 

And that supports the point that Phil is making above - "PLANNING to develop OVER TIME an Income structure that allows you to be Sustainable AND still allow you to pay "Competitive" salaries."

 

 

This is, I'm afraid, simply bol loc ks.

 

You do realise that, say, Guildford, is chock full of Man United fans, none of which give two sh i ts about their team being hundreds of miles away.

 

Our catchment area is no better than any other club.

[CB Fry]

You hit "The Problem" of promotion to the PL on the head.

 

How many people in the Central South of England subscribe to Sky Sports and watch football?

 

It is the uberfan argument that someone with an interest in football should never be allowed to attend a live game, but why shouldn't 500 or 5,000 tickets be available each week to neutrals? (hell they could sit in the Chapel & never be noticed for not singing!). Why shouldn't the Away section be able to hold 5,000 plastic mancs from Basingstoke/London etc?

 

It will not happen overnight but there is something wrong with not seeing how to make it happen

 

Thats your vision for the club. Expand the ground for home counties Man U fans to come. Not as converted Saints fans. Oh no. As Man U fans. Some vision. Some vision.

[dubai_phil]

Thats your vision for the club. Expand the ground for home counties Man U fans to come. Not as converted Saints fans. Oh no. As Man U fans. Some vision. Some vision.

 

Oh how right you always are and how well you always interpret everything.

 

An expanded Stadium will NOT ONLY serve the wishes of potentially the 55,000 Saints fans at Wembley but will ALSO (by PL REGULATIONS) allow a higher number of AWAY fans (eg local plastic mancs) to attend games. AT THE SAME TIME it could offer up "A Neutral Zone" for those who simply want to watch a game of football.

 

Enjoy living in perpetual averageness

[CB Fry]

Oh how right you always are and how well you always interpret everything.

 

An expanded Stadium will NOT ONLY serve the wishes of potentially the 55,000 Saints fans at Wembley but will ALSO (by PL REGULATIONS) allow a higher number of AWAY fans (eg local plastic mancs) to attend games. AT THE SAME TIME it could offer up "A Neutral Zone" for those who simply want to watch a game of football.

 

Enjoy living in perpetual averageness

 

I'd say recommending building several million pounds worth of new seating to house people "who simply want to watch a game of football" to be possibly the most soul crushing vison for the future I think I have ever heard.

 

Do you seriously think the plans on the table for Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool (currently off the table), Everton and the rest have this kind idea at the heart of it? Or maybe, just maybe, their plans cover actual demand from their own actual fans?

 

I'd far rather have a packed St Mary's of real Saints fans than a 40,000 death-drome full of away fans and random day trippers.

 

It does, I grant you, sound like precisely the kind of idea that would eminate from Dubai.

[CanadaSaint]

This is, I'm afraid, simply bol loc ks.

 

You do realise that, say, Guildford, is chock full of Man United fans, none of which give two sh i ts about their team being hundreds of miles away.

 

Our catchment area is no better than any other club.

 

So you dismiss an argument as "bol loc ks" and then cite Man U fans in Guildford as your supporting rationale? And then you dismiss the next argument, by another poster, with more references to Man U fans.

 

"You do realize that" the vast majority of people in our large catchment area don't support Man U, and aren't that committed to any club, don't you?

 

They could be, though, and that gives us a major potential advantage over clubs of supposedly-similar size, which was the point of my post.

 

Will it get us into the CL? I don't know, but at least I'm willing to look up rather than down.

[CB Fry]

So you dismiss an argument as "bol loc ks" and then cite Man U fans in Guildford as your supporting rationale? And then you dismiss the next argument, by another poster, with more references to Man U fans.

 

"You do realize that" the vast majority of people in our large catchment area don't support Man U, and aren't that committed to any club, don't you?

 

They could be, though, and that gives us a major potential advantage over clubs of supposedly-similar size, which was the point of my post.

 

Will it get us into the CL? I don't know, but at least I'm willing to look up rather than down.

 

The point is the Man U catchment area is the entire world. Our "catchment area" is meaningless because we have no geographic hold over any casual fans in Sussex or Devon or wherever.

 

Which clubs of a similar size do we have a bigger catchment area than, and can you specify exactly where you are drawing the line on our area.

 

Your line which you spout like some higher learning "You do realize that" the vast majority of people in our large catchment area don't support Man U, and aren't that committed to any club, don't you? is a line that could be applied to Villa, Leicester, Derby, Forest, both Sheffield Clubs, Newcastle, Leeds, Bristol City, Plymouth, MK Dons and in fact any club in Britain outside of the NorthWest of England.

[CanadaSaint]

Your line which you spout like some higher learning "You do realize that" the vast majority of people in our large catchment area don't support Man U, and aren't that committed to any club, don't you? is a line that could be applied to Villa, Leicester, Derby, Forest, both Sheffield Clubs, Newcastle, Leeds, Bristol City, Plymouth, MK Dons and in fact any club in Britain outside of the NorthWest of England.

 

The term which I "(spouted) like some higher learning" (the "You do realize" part) was a direct quote from you!

 

And the irony is that you couldn't even see yourself in it, CB. Ever read Robbie Burns?

 

And No, my point couldn't be applied to most of the clubs you mentioned because they are surrounded by far more nearby competition than we are.

[Tamesaint]

Coming back from a few days away and catching up with this thread, I find it staggering how whenever a thread gets started which indicates that this club can go forward and can progress, the usual suspects come out and ridicule everything. The vehemence of thier beliefs and ridicule of anyone making an optimistic point is quite amazing. This thread is a classic example of this. Any thread which talks about expanding the stadium suffers from the same fate. Has you know who yet posted his "man walking on the moon" comment on this thread?

 

Very few people say that we will win the Prem next season or the Champions League the following year. Very few say that we need a 55,000 seater stadium tomorrow. But you have to be rather blinkered in your approach to life to say that a steady, consistent progression for Saints is not to be aimed for and that one day these dreams may not be so unrealistic.

[CanadaSaint]

Coming back from a few days away and catching up with this thread, I find it staggering how whenever a thread gets started which indicates that this club can go forward and can progress, the usual suspects come out and ridicule everything. The vehemence of thier beliefs and ridicule of anyone making an optimistic point is quite amazing. This thread is a classic example of this. Any thread which talks about expanding the stadium suffers from the same fate. Has you know who yet posted his "man walking on the moon" comment on this thread?

 

Very few people say that we will win the Prem next season or the Champions League the following year. Very few say that we need a 55,000 seater stadium tomorrow. But you have to be rather blinkered in your approach to life to say that a steady, consistent progression for Saints is not to be aimed for and that one day these dreams may not be so unrealistic.

 

Absolutely.

[Sour Mash]

Coming back from a few days away and catching up with this thread, I find it staggering how whenever a thread gets started which indicates that this club can go forward and can progress, the usual suspects come out and ridicule everything. The vehemence of thier beliefs and ridicule of anyone making an optimistic point is quite amazing. This thread is a classic example of this. Any thread which talks about expanding the stadium suffers from the same fate. Has you know who yet posted his "man walking on the moon" comment on this thread?

 

Very few people say that we will win the Prem next season or the Champions League the following year. Very few say that we need a 55,000 seater stadium tomorrow. But you have to be rather blinkered in your approach to life to say that a steady, consistent progression for Saints is not to be aimed for and that one day these dreams may not be so unrealistic.

Show me one post on here that says Saints can't 'move forward'.....I bet you can't can you?

[Sour Mash]

Why was it a debacle?

 

Do you disagree with what I said about Blackburn?

You were shown up to be spouting made up rubbish yet again, bit embarrassing for someone that prides themselves on stats.

 

For what it's worth I do consider us bigger than Blackburn, so differ with DellDays on that, not a big deal really.

[Sour Mash]

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been at St Mary's?

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been owned by someone with vast wealth and ambition?

- For how many years have both of these factors been in place at the same time? And what has happened in that short space of time?

 

As pointed out earlier by someone else, many of the older heads in here are stuck in a smalltime Dell complex. Never before in Southampton's 126 year history have they been in such a strong position in terms of infrastructure at the stadium, academy and training ground or with the ambition and wealth of those running and owning the club.

 

Things are vastly different now to at any point between 1885 and 2009. We are not at The Dell, the likes of Guy Askham and Rupert Lowe aren't running the club.

How old are you to be patronising people on here about our time at the Dell? I doubt you ever ever even saw a game there. Can you tell us how much wealth our owners have and are prepared to put into the club? You seem to clearly know more than the rest of us on it.......

[Turkish]

You hit "The Problem" of promotion to the PL on the head.

 

How many people in the Central South of England subscribe to Sky Sports and watch football?

 

It is the uberfan argument that someone with an interest in football should never be allowed to attend a live game, but why shouldn't 500 or 5,000 tickets be available each week to neutrals? (hell they could sit in the Chapel & never be noticed for not singing!). Why shouldn't the Away section be able to hold 5,000 plastic mancs from Basingstoke/London etc?

 

It will not happen overnight but there is something wrong with not seeing how to make it happen

 

Please explain why there are 5,000 plastic Mancs in Surrey and Berkshire, just desperately hoping Southampton get back to the premier league so they can come and watch Southampton v Swansea in the premier league. Why would these plastic mancs not go to Reading instead. or QPR instead. or West Ham (should they go up) instead. or Chelsea instead. or Arsenal instead. Why Epsom and Reigate Reds specifically waiting for Southampton to be promoted to fullfill their dream of being in the neutral section of a ground over an hour away when London clubs are closer and a better day out than to watch two clubs they dont give a f*ck about?

[CB Fry]

 

And No, my point couldn't be applied to most of the clubs you mentioned because they are surrounded by far more nearby competition than we are.

 

 

Well my learning is higher than yours if you are still spouting guff about "other clubs have more nearby competition". Simple nonsense.

 

You tell me the boundaries of this Saints mega catchment and I will happily tell where and why Forest, Leicester and Derby's are equally as big if not bigger.

 

Laughable.

[Turkish]

8,000 people when situations were similar is a significant difference.

 

Yet according to you we are bigger than Everton despite having never, ever had a bigger average crowd than them over the course of a season in our history and they've often had 6-8000 or more on average in similar situations.

[Frank's cousin]

Looks to me that there is an obvious disagreement on what our 'potential' really is... which is fair enough. But neither side in this argument has any hard evidence to support the lack of it or the 'no limt' argument. Guess that's why businesses spend fortunes and time on feasibility studies to get some real data before making confoirming a strategy and any tactical plans to implement it.

 

The difference is, that although I have feck all hard evidence to support a rationale that could see growth that we have not seen or never dreamed of as possible, I am with thsoe that advocate having the highest aspiration and most positive plan - and not do not accept that we should have a 'practical ceiling'. Pipe dreams, unrealistc, 'looney ideas'? sure there is no current rationale to suggest that exceptional growth is possible, but I am not arrogant enough to suggest I know all there is to know about growth and expansion in any industry, let alone football..but believe nothing will ever be achived if you are happy to settle with what convention tells you is your limit... As others have said... would rather aim high and fail in the attempt and learn from it, that simply accept mediocrity.

 

As with other thread topics, there still seems to be an underlying concern of how we are perceived elsewhere, the 'look at those deluded mugs down at Sothampton'... 'champions league...they're having a laugh' worry.... well you know what? I have never given a flying feck about that sort of rubbish, usually spouted by those equally happy to accept stagnation and mediocrity. If you want the best, you need to look at the best and not be affraid to strive to be their equal. Man U, Barca and Real Madrid, have gotten their global 'brand appeal' through their success, and clever marketing. How many Asian Man U fans do you think existed when they were last in Div2? Not that many years ago.

 

It has been consistent success on which that following has been built and all 'history' starts as nothing. We should not be affraid of writing a new chapter. Yes against a backdrop where unbelieveable levels of finance has been shown to be the only way any club can break into that exclusive club, yet Tottenham have with a 120mil turnover. Is that a level of finance that Saints could get to? How would they? Commercially or fan driven? Could you achieve what they have done with 80mil revenue if able to bring through more home grown talent? what would the timescale be for such growth? Fair questions if you ask me.

 

The difference seems to be that some of us think its worth asking those sorts of questions because a) we have never been happy to accept mediocrity, b) we seem to have a Chairman who is highly ambitious, smart etc. c) after 7 years in the widerness, ee have momentum and a positive vibe and image of teh club back again, which could harnessed etc...

 

I just dont see what the problem is with looking beyond survival every year.

[Sour Mash]

Looks to me that there is an obvious disagreement on what our 'potential' really is... which is fair enough. But neither side in this argument has any hard evidence to support the lack of it or the 'no limt' argument. Guess that's why businesses spend fortunes and time on feasibility studies to get some real data before making confoirming a strategy and any tactical plans to implement it.

 

The difference is, that although I have feck all hard evidence to support a rationale that could see growth that we have not seen or never dreamed of as possible, I am with thsoe that advocate having the highest aspiration and most positive plan - and not do not accept that we should have a 'practical ceiling'. Pipe dreams, unrealistc, 'looney ideas'? sure there is no current rationale to suggest that exceptional growth is possible, but I am not arrogant enough to suggest I know all there is to know about growth and expansion in any industry, let alone football..but believe nothing will ever be achived if you are happy to settle with what convention tells you is your limit... As others have said... would rather aim high and fail in the attempt and learn from it, that simply accept mediocrity.

 

As with other thread topics, there still seems to be an underlying concern of how we are perceived elsewhere, the 'look at those deluded mugs down at Sothampton'... 'champions league...they're having a laugh' worry.... well you know what? I have never given a flying feck about that sort of rubbish, usually spouted by those equally happy to accept stagnation and mediocrity. If you want the best, you need to look at the best and not be affraid to strive to be their equal. Man U, Barca and Real Madrid, have gotten their global 'brand appeal' through their success, and clever marketing. How many Asian Man U fans do you think existed when they were last in Div2? Not that many years ago.

 

It has been consistent success on which that following has been built and all 'history' starts as nothing. We should not be affraid of writing a new chapter. Yes against a backdrop where unbelieveable levels of finance has been shown to be the only way any club can break into that exclusive club, yet Tottenham have with a 120mil turnover. Is that a level of finance that Saints could get to? How would they? Commercially or fan driven? Could you achieve what they have done with 80mil revenue if able to bring through more home grown talent? what would the timescale be for such growth? Fair questions if you ask me.

 

The difference seems to be that some of us think its worth asking those sorts of questions because a) we have never been happy to accept mediocrity, b) we seem to have a Chairman who is highly ambitious, smart etc. c) after 7 years in the widerness, ee have momentum and a positive vibe and image of teh club back again, which could harnessed etc...

 

I just dont see what the problem is with looking beyond survival every year.

Do you think Barnet fans should aspire to be in the Champions League?

[Wes Tender]

This is, I'm afraid, simply bol loc ks.

 

You do realise that, say, Guildford, is chock full of Man United fans, none of which give two sh i ts about their team being hundreds of miles away.

 

Our catchment area is no better than any other club.

 

I hear your bol locks and raise it a bol locks.

 

What a poor example you give in Guildford. It's far closer to the London Clubs then here, so even your argument that they will be ManUre supporters is weak. Also a City like Guildford isn't even particularly the sort of environment that is strong on football supporters. Our main catchment area is along the South coast from Brighton to Wareham and a radius northwards encompassing Salisbury, Andover, Basingstoke, Alton, etc. And that is a larger catchment than most clubs have. The more successful we become, the more plastics in this area we will convert. With the Skates demise, they will retain a hardcore, but we will pick up lots more support from that area and also from the Bournemouth area, fewer from Brighton.

[Sour Mash]

Looks to me that there is an obvious disagreement on what our 'potential' really is... which is fair enough. But neither side in this argument has any hard evidence to support the lack of it or the 'no limt' argument. Guess that's why businesses spend fortunes and time on feasibility studies to get some real data before making confoirming a strategy and any tactical plans to implement it.

 

The difference is, that although I have feck all hard evidence to support a rationale that could see growth that we have not seen or never dreamed of as possible, I am with thsoe that advocate having the highest aspiration and most positive plan - and not do not accept that we should have a 'practical ceiling'. Pipe dreams, unrealistc, 'looney ideas'? sure there is no current rationale to suggest that exceptional growth is possible, but I am not arrogant enough to suggest I know all there is to know about growth and expansion in any industry, let alone football..but believe nothing will ever be achived if you are happy to settle with what convention tells you is your limit... As others have said... would rather aim high and fail in the attempt and learn from it, that simply accept mediocrity.

 

As with other thread topics, there still seems to be an underlying concern of how we are perceived elsewhere, the 'look at those deluded mugs down at Sothampton'... 'champions league...they're having a laugh' worry.... well you know what? I have never given a flying feck about that sort of rubbish, usually spouted by those equally happy to accept stagnation and mediocrity. If you want the best, you need to look at the best and not be affraid to strive to be their equal. Man U, Barca and Real Madrid, have gotten their global 'brand appeal' through their success, and clever marketing. How many Asian Man U fans do you think existed when they were last in Div2? Not that many years ago.

 

It has been consistent success on which that following has been built and all 'history' starts as nothing. We should not be affraid of writing a new chapter. Yes against a backdrop where unbelieveable levels of finance has been shown to be the only way any club can break into that exclusive club, yet Tottenham have with a 120mil turnover. Is that a level of finance that Saints could get to? How would they? Commercially or fan driven? Could you achieve what they have done with 80mil revenue if able to bring through more home grown talent? what would the timescale be for such growth? Fair questions if you ask me.

 

The difference seems to be that some of us think its worth asking those sorts of questions because a) we have never been happy to accept mediocrity, b) we seem to have a Chairman who is highly ambitious, smart etc. c) after 7 years in the widerness, ee have momentum and a positive vibe and image of teh club back again, which could harnessed etc...

 

I just dont see what the problem is with looking beyond survival every year.

Show me an example of anyone on here accepting mediocrity? There must be plenty going from your post above, so lets see them all? We've all "asked those questions" already, that's why we're laughing at the likes of you expecting Champions LEague football in the next 5 years. Also, you talk of Man Utd's historical support? Check out their attendances when they were in the 2nd division. That will tell you why they are a massive club and far bigger than we can aspire to.

[Sour Mash]

I hear your bol locks and raise it a bol locks.

 

What a poor example you give in Guildford. It's far closer to the London Clubs then here, so even your argument that they will be ManUre supporters is weak. Also a City like Guildford isn't even particularly the sort of environment that is strong on football supporters. Our main catchment area is along the South coast from Brighton to Wareham and a radius northwards encompassing Salisbury, Andover, Basingstoke, Alton, etc. And that is a larger catchment than most clubs have. The more successful we become, the more plastics in this area we will convert. With the Skates demise, they will retain a hardcore, but we will pick up lots more support from that area and also from the Bournemouth area, fewer from Brighton.

Why didn't we sell out week in week out in the early 80s then? European football, towards the top of league, where were the thousands of glory hunters then? All these people in Salisbury and Gosport desperate to see a successful team..............

[Wes Tender]

Well my learning is higher than yours if you are still spouting guff about "other clubs have more nearby competition". Simple nonsense.

 

You tell me the boundaries of this Saints mega catchment and I will happily tell where and why Forest, Leicester and Derby's are equally as big if not bigger.

 

Laughable.

 

Surely somebody of the inteligence that you obviously think you have, wouldn't make the simple error of quoting a city amongst your examples that has two well established clubs vying for support?

 

Tell me it ain't true!

[djharvey]

Just saying in the radio. That in today's football and on The path it is on. Clubs the size of Blackburn (which is like saints) are never going to be challenging for the top spots unless they have that one freak season

 

 

How true is that

 

Probably true, but in my experience the harder you work the luckier you get!

[Wes Tender]

Why didn't we sell out week in week out in the early 80s then? European football, towards the top of league, where were the thousands of glory hunters then? All these people in Salisbury and Gosport desperate to see a successful team..............

 

They couldn't get into the stadium.

 

Next.

[djharvey]

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been at St Mary's?

- For how many years of your lifetime have Saints been owned by someone with vast wealth and ambition?

- For how many years have both of these factors been in place at the same time? And what has happened in that short space of time?

 

As pointed out earlier by someone else, many of the older heads in here are stuck in a smalltime Dell complex. Never before in Southampton's 126 year history have they been in such a strong position in terms of infrastructure at the stadium, academy and training ground or with the ambition and wealth of those running and owning the club.

 

Things are vastly different now to at any point between 1885 and 2009. We are not at The Dell, the likes of Guy Askham and Rupert Lowe aren't running the club.

 

Very well said .