New 5 year Plan

[Frank's cousin]

Yet you're going on and on and on and doing all sorts of sums to prove that we lacked ambition and resource is 1982, when we clearly didn't.

 

er no I am going on an on to counter your point that if we had such huge ambition in 1982 and could not fill the Dell, then this is somehow relevent to our potential in 2012 - which you should be able to see its not. 182 culture, finance ambition, gate, success KK, has feck all to do with any potentila we have today - as mentioned we had more turn up regularly in L1 last year than in 1982, so it makes you point obsolete

[Turkish]

er no I am going on an on to counter your point that if we had such huge ambition in 1982 and could not fill the Dell' date=' then this is somehow relevent to our potential in 2012 - which you should be able to see its not. 182 culture, finance ambition, gate, success KK, has feck all to do with any potentila we have today - as mentioned we had more turn up regularly in L1 last year than in 1982, so it makes you point obsolete[/quote']

 

It isn't relevant. Expect for the fact that you and your mob keep going on about we are going to attract millons of new fans because we've never had ambition and resourse before when i have clearly demonstrated that we have.

[Turkish]

 

Good loordy - Can you not see that the only way your argument stands up is if the AVERGAE footballers wage had grown at the normal inflationary rate realtive to everything else?

 

Lets make it simple

 

1982

Average yearly salary £9,000 per year

Avergae footballers salary £40,000 per year

KK salary £175,000 a year

 

2012 (if everything had grown in relative terms - meaning it would be Saints showing the SAME level of ambition now as then)

Average yearly salary £33,000 per year

Average Footballers salary £200,000 per year (£3800 per week)

KK type salary approx £650,000 per year (£11,000 per week)

 

2012 REALITY which shows its impossible to judge Saints ambitions now on 1982 standards

Average yearly salary £33k

Avergae footballers salary £1.5 million

KK type salary £10 million a year +

 

Uhm. what you are comparing is us spending £175 k a year on KK in 182 and saying ist the same as us spending 10 mil a year now - when the reality is that spedning £175 k a year in 1982 is the same as spedning £650k a year now.... 'reasonable' enough in any voice with a brain

 

 

Do you compare your wages today with other people in your industry when looking for a pay rise or do you tell them you should be on loads more because Doctors earn more than you?

Edited 15 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Dig Dig]

It isn't relevant. Expect for the fact that you and your mob keep going on about we are going to attract millons of new fans because we've never had ambition and resourse before when i have clearly demonstrated that we have.

 

But the subsequent attendance figures you use were as a result of the wider environment at the time and not because the club had a lack of ambition. Yes? No? FACT?

[Turkish]

But the subsequent attendance figures you use were as a result of the wider environment at the time and not because the club had a lack of ambition. Yes? No? FACT?

 

FACT. Also proof that the environment at the time meant we were not held back and did not need a bigger stadium.

[Wes Tender]

Yes it shows ambition to some degree, happy to cenced that - but from a financila committment perspective it was less of a committment than us signing Rickielambert and paying him 12k a week.

 

That shift has been possible because in part we attract more fans paying higher prices for a seat in a decent facility + supplemented by the Liebherrs - this is why you simply cant make such a comparison

 

You're wasting your time, Frank. As you say, he's either a bit thick or on a wind-up. When he puts his mind to it, he is capable of some cogent thought, so we must conclude that he is probably being deliberately obtuse, i.e. on a wind-up.

[Dig Dig]

FACT. Also proof that the environment at the time meant we were not held back and did not need a bigger stadium.

 

Very good. So the FACT that we didn't sell out in 1984 depsite massive ambition and success shows that there is no relevance to the ambition of today as attendances were **** for most clubs throughout that time, yes?

[Turkish]

Very good. So the FACT that we didn't sell out in 1984 depsite massive ambition and success shows that there is no relevance to the ambition of today as attendances were **** for most clubs throughout that time, yes?

 

Who said it was?

 

The point i am making and that you intelligent posters are failing to understand is that despite the claims of the intelligent posters we were not held back by the Dell in the early 80's.

[Turkish]

You're wasting your time, Frank. As you say, he's either a bit thick or on a wind-up. When he puts his mind to it, he is capable of some cogent thought, so we must conclude that he is probably being deliberately obtuse, i.e. on a wind-up.

 

What's your excuse for talking nonsense?

[The Kraken]

You're wasting your time, Frank. As you say, he's either a bit thick or on a wind-up. When he puts his mind to it, he is capable of some cogent thought, so we must conclude that he is probably being deliberately obtuse, i.e. on a wind-up.

 

Make your mind up Les; just one page ago you were lamenting about how sad it was that this thread couldn't reach intelligent debate without abuse from both sides; now you're abusing a fellow poster by calling him "thick".

[Frank's cousin]

Do you compare your wages today with other people in your industry when looking for a pay rise or do you tell them you should be on loads more because Doctors earn more than you?

 

Who said I earn less than Doctors? ;-) ... but anyhow, I dont get your point? its not about comparing to 'other industries', but to what the relative buying power of that investment/ambition cost us in real terms relative to our our income at the time... which was alot less than it would need to be today....by a factor of around 50

 

On your previous point, in 1982, we showed some ambition/luck within an affordable framework, but were restricted by growth in gate through the prevailing culture in football at the time, which meant although there was interest, many simply did not wnat to go to games despite the fact its was more affordable and we had success

 

2012, we have aculture that is more inclusive and depsite being in L1 in 2011 attracted more on average than in 82 - FACT, suggetsing culture had a lot to do with it.

We also now have the some success, ambition and some resource, but its buying power is A LOT less than in 82 - and ticket prices are much higher in relative terms - which can also restrict demand. However, on balnace the proposition for families, kids, clowns is more more atrcative as we have seen - now we just need to ensure we make it equally attractive for the other casual fans (who have been to Wembley etc) on a more regular basis to realise our full potential - yes in part that will depend on success on the pitch and in part on the ticket prices and value.

[Turkish]

Who said I earn less than Doctors? ;-) ... but anyhow, I dont get your point? its not about comparing to 'other industries', but to what the relative buying power of that investment/ambition cost us in real terms relative to our our income at the time... which was alot less than it would need to be today....by a factor of around 50

 

On your previous point, in 1982, we showed some ambition/luck within an affordable framework, but were restricted by growth in gate through the prevailing culture in football at the time, which meant although there was interest, many simply did not wnat to go to games despite the fact its was more affordable and we had success

 

2012, we have aculture that is more inclusive and depsite being in L1 in 2011 attracted more on average than in 82 - FACT, suggetsing culture had a lot to do with it.

We also now have the some success, ambition and some resource, but its buying power is A LOT less than in 82 - and ticket prices are much higher in relative terms - which can also restrict demand. However, on balnace the proposition for families, kids, clowns is more more atrcative as we have seen - now we just need to ensure we make it equally attractive for the other casual fans (who have been to Wembley etc) on a more regular basis to realise our full potential - yes in part that will depend on success on the pitch and in part on the ticket prices and value.

 

These's a surprise....

 

Would say a shelf stacker in Tescos ask for a payrise and base their demands on what a barrister gets paid?

 

Answer the question yes or and no and try not to ramble please.

 

An on your other point so we now did show ambition in 1982 did we? And we now werent restricted by the Dell because less people went back then do our capacity was not restricting our growth. Basically not restricted by the Dell at all. That is the essence of what you've just said, yes?

[Dig Dig]

Who said it was?

 

The point i am making and that you intelligent posters are failing to understand is that despite the claims of the intelligent posters we were not held back by the Dell in the early 80's.

 

I'm just happy that you now know how to spell intelligent. My work here is done.

 

You would end up arguing with yourself if there were no one else posting on here.

[Frank's cousin]

These's a surprise....

 

Would say a shelf stacker in Tescos ask for a payrise and base their demands on what a barrister gets paid?

 

Answer the question yes or and no and try not to ramble please.

 

An on your other point so we now did show ambition in 1982 did we? And we now werent restricted by the Dell because less people went back then do our capacity was not restricting our growth. Basically not restricted by the Dell at all. That is the essence of what you've just said, yes?

 

 

I can only assume you are acting the complete numpty as part of the tried and tested WUm methodology, otherwise I would be concerned for your mental capacity, but to humour you:

 

1. 'shelf stacker in Tescos ask for a payrise and base their demands on what a barrister gets paid' - still totally irrelevent and has absolutely feck all to do with teh point being made. but yes experessed as a percentage of their current salaries - which is what inflation is provided as...

 

2. Your second point is incoherent rambling and makes no sense as a sentance, pleae could you write it out again using English.

 

I never said anywhere on here that we did not show ambition in 1982. You were, repeatedly ad nauseum, trying to suggest that if we struggled to fill the Dell in 1982 when we had success and showed some 'ambition', then that was somehow relevant to the current situation - I disagree saying its completely irrelevant and has no baring on today's environment. A more reasonable question based on your argument would be, given the current status of saints and the culture in football, would we be restricted at the DEll in 2012 - and the answer could not be more obvious.

 

The only real quetsion relevent to this whole debate is whether SMS with a 32k gate will ever become restrictive realtive to our potential - some think yes, some think no, some think within 5 years, others think not within 15.

 

The 'intelligent' poster is merely suggesting that any compentant business will plan in advance of demand based on the available evidence and forecast. IF the forecast/projection suggest we will reach capacity inside 5 years, then a feasibility study would be made of the costs associated with that investment, cost benefit anaylsis etc - If positive it would then go ahead if it were possible to finance, if not it would be shelved... I am confused at to why some find this very simple idea so amusing to warrant continued ridicule... when the only debate seems to be about how soon would be optimal to review it.

 

Depends on a businesses risk strategy and financial security - soem might make a strong case for a high risk approach which is build in capacity early whilst costs are at current levels per seat if the finance was secure and relatively cheap - with the only potential risk being empty seats, but teh benfits include greater pricing flexibilty and improved revenues for certain show piece games.

 

True, most businesses will not have instant access to cheap cash so will need to adopt a more pragmatic approach - be 100% confident that the returns will support the borrowings necessary to make such an investment. We don not know our financial situation so cant second guess NC.... againwhere is the problem or lack of logic in any of this..?

[Frank's cousin]

I'm just happy that you now know how to spell intelligent. My work here is done.

 

You would end up arguing with yourself if there were no one else posting on here.

 

Ah but that is victory for the elite WUM. We cant let them have the last word

[Turkish]

I can only assume you are acting the complete numpty as part of the tried and tested WUm methodology, otherwise I would be concerned for your mental capacity, but to humour you:

 

1. 'shelf stacker in Tescos ask for a payrise and base their demands on what a barrister gets paid' - still totally irrelevent and has absolutely feck all to do with teh point being made. but yes experessed as a percentage of their current salaries - which is what inflation is provided as...

 

2. Your second point is incoherent rambling and makes no sense as a sentance, pleae could you write it out again using English.

 

I never said anywhere on here that we did not show ambition in 1982. You were, repeatedly ad nauseum, trying to suggest that if we struggled to fill the Dell in 1982 when we had success and showed some 'ambition', then that was somehow relevant to the current situation - I disagree saying its completely irrelevant and has no baring on today's environment. A more reasonable question based on your argument would be, given the current status of saints and the culture in football, would we be restricted at the DEll in 2012 - and the answer could not be more obvious.

 

The only real quetsion relevent to this whole debate is whether SMS with a 32k gate will ever become restrictive realtive to our potential - some think yes, some think no, some think within 5 years, others think not within 15.

 

The 'intelligent' poster is merely suggesting that any compentant business will plan in advance of demand based on the available evidence and forecast. IF the forecast/projection suggest we will reach capacity inside 5 years, then a feasibility study would be made of the costs associated with that investment, cost benefit anaylsis etc - If positive it would then go ahead if it were possible to finance, if not it would be shelved... I am confused at to why some find this very simple idea so amusing to warrant continued ridicule... when the only debate seems to be about how soon would be optimal to review it.

 

Depends on a businesses risk strategy and financial security - soem might make a strong case for a high risk approach which is build in capacity early whilst costs are at current levels per seat if the finance was secure and relatively cheap - with the only potential risk being empty seats, but teh benfits include greater pricing flexibilty and improved revenues for certain show piece games.

 

True, most businesses will not have instant access to cheap cash so will need to adopt a more pragmatic approach - be 100% confident that the returns will support the borrowings necessary to make such an investment. We don not know our financial situation so cant second guess NC.... againwhere is the problem or lack of logic in any of this..?

 

* sighs *

 

I did say dont ramble.

 

A shelf stakers salary against a barrister is as relevant as the average wage of the man on the street against a proffesional top level football not like for like.

 

You keep saying i said our attendances in 1982 are relevant to our attendances in 2020. They aren't. It's a very simple concept to grasp The voice of reason, people said we never progressed on in the early 80's because we were restricted by the Dell. We clearly weren't. You say yourself much less people went to football those day.

 

However, we clearly were restricted by the Dell in the 90's, i've already made that point,what did we do? oh tha's right we moved, when demand outstripped supply. We had a 5 year waiting list for tickets for example, something the Intelligent Posters claim isn't important. Oh no, the intelligent posters want us to build it now, dont worry if it's a total waste of money and we never ever fill the extra seating. Cortese has millions he is going to sqaunder on us. Ever thought that the Liebherrs are worth £3b because they didn't spend stupidly without proof it was needed first?

 

And as has ben mentioned Cortese had a 5 year plan for the premier league. Why arent we building now if he was absolutely certain we had all these thousands of fans just waiting for our promotion and fill all our extra seats?

 

Surely Cortese view is the same as the retarded posters and not the intelligent "build it now" brigade?

Edited 15 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Thedelldays]

this thread is golden....lets summarise..

 

- attendances 25 years ago mean nothing

- man has climbed everest

- a bigger SMS will mean a much bigger average attendance

- no expansion will happen this summer

- NC will no doubt be looking at it

- there will be no point expanding if we fail to sell out over half the games next season

- Nokia were once the greatest phone company on earth

- we certainly are not a bigger club than everton

[buctootim]

How the **** can there be 1,270 posts on something so simple?

 

If the club wanted to maximise attendance (build support and image for the future etc) and money was no object they would build a 50,000 capacity stadium and make tickets £5 and fill it. If they want to maximise revenue they will keep SMS and charge something like £40 a game.

[buctootim]

this thread is golden....lets summarise..

 

- attendances 25 years ago mean nothing

- man has climbed everest

- a bigger SMS will mean a much bigger average attendance

- no expansion will happen this summer

- NC will no doubt be looking at it

- there will be no point expanding if we fail to sell out over half the games next season

- Nokia were once the greatest phone company on earth

- we certainly are not a bigger club than everton

 

Nice summation!

[Turkish]

How the **** can there be 1,270 posts on something so simple?

 

If the club wanted to maximise attendance (build support and image for the future etc) and money was no object they would build a 50,000 capacity stadium and make tickets £5 and fill it. If they want to maximise revenue they will keep SMS and charge something like £40 a game.

 

Because the intelligent posters are demanding we "build it now" and are angry at Corteses lack of ambition that we've made it to the Premier league but dont have our champions league sized stadium in place.

[dune]

* sighs *

 

I did say dont ramble.

 

to you for a) forcing yourself through the bore barrier to read it, and b) rearranging the words so they made any sense.

[buctootim]

Because the intelligent posters are demanding we "build it now" and are angry at Corteses lack of ambition that we've made it to the Premier league but dont have our champions league sized stadium in place.

 

You're both right imo. There is potentially demand for a 50,000 capacity stadium - but only if tickets are as cheap as chips. Building it wouldnt make any kind of economic or business sense but its just possible that ML left money and instructions for some kind of community stadium with access for everybody who wanted to come.

 

If, like almost every other club Saints aim to maximise income they will structure pricing to try to ensure that SMS sells out every game but that there arent people turned away (because that would nmean they had set the prices too low).

 

Personally even if Saints become a regular top ten side I dont see demand exceeding 40,000 if tickets are around the average EPL price.

Edited 15 May, 2012 by buctootim

[aintforever]

paying the European footballer of the year 4.5 times the average footballers wage isn't having ambition and resorces then?

 

Of course the club had ambition in the 80's, Big Mac and Ted Bates had huge ambition which was obvious. The Keegan signing showed that and also showed how players wages, and money overall wasn't such a big issue back then.

 

The club didn't have the resources to build a 35K stadium on Western Esplanade though, even though they wanted to and the council offered to pay part of it. And the club was never in a completely secure position financially.

 

The difference is now SFC could build what they want. If the owners thought a 50K superdome complete with hotel, ice rink and monkey petting zoo was a good idea they could do it. They have the resources to invest. The club before couldn't - it could now.

 

F*cks sake, this is hard work.

Edited 15 May, 2012 by aintforever

[Wes Tender]

Make your mind up Les; just one page ago you were lamenting about how sad it was that this thread couldn't reach intelligent debate without abuse from both sides; now you're abusing a fellow poster by calling him "thick".

 

Read it again. I concluded that as he is capable of cogent thought when he puts his mind to it, he must be on a wind-up. Is that abusing a fellow poster? Or perhaps I ought to have phrased it in such a way as to disguise the real meaning, you know, like how politicians call others liars by phrasing it as being economical with the truth.

 

Now, how shall I say it? That perhaps his thought processes lack the ability to assimilate the information in such a way as to reach a logical conclusion that he comprehends. Either that, or he is being deliberately obtuse in order to stimulate a reaction, even when he himself does not necessarily hold those views.

 

Better?

[Frank's cousin]

to you for a) forcing yourself through the bore barrier to read it, and b) rearranging the words so they made any sense.

 

Ahr I see you could not resist crawling out from inside Turkish's sphincter to make such a stunningly original and insightful addition to the thread. Well done.

[S-Clarke]

I can't believe this is still rumbling on.

[Turkish]

Of course the club had ambition in the 80's, Big Mac and Ted Bates had huge ambition which was obvious. The Keegan signing showed that and also showed how players wages, and money overall wasn't such a big issue back then.

 

The club didn't have the resources to build a 35K stadium on Western Esplanade though, even though they wanted to and the council offered to pay part of it. And the club was never in a completely secure position financially.

 

The difference is now SFC could build what they want. If the owners thought a 50K superdome complete with hotel, ice rink and monkey petting zoo was a good idea they could do it. They have the resources to invest. The club before couldn't - it could now.

 

F*cks sake, this is hard work.

 

You're not wrong it bloody well. Just how many hotel, super bowl, type places were there in the 80s? How many billionaire owners were there? They're all a relatively new thing since sky's rebranding of the game which has seen it awash with money. In the early 80s saints had the ambition and resources to sigh top players and punch well above our weight. From 1992 onwards the big clubs have got bigger and great traditional clubs like Sheffield Wed for example have been left well behind wih an ever widening gap. What a lot of the intelligent posters are failing to Understand is the gap between 4th and 12th in the premier league is immense. Newcastle didn't make it this season despite all their efforts. It's going to take More than daydreams to get there. It needs considerable Investment in both the playing side and te infrastructure. It remains to be seen if cortese has it and Saints have the fan base to support it despite what the enlightened posters might claim.

Edited 15 May, 2012 by Turkish

[The Kraken]

What a lot of the intelligent posters are failing to Understand is the gap between 4th and 12th in the premier league is immense. Newcastle didn't make it this season despite all their efforts. It's going to take More than daydreams to get there. It needs considerable Investment in both the playing side and te infrastructure. It remains to be seen if cortese has it and Saints have the fan base to support it despite what the enlightened posters might claim.

 

On that note, some rather poignant quotes from Pardew about Newcastle that he made before he knew whether Newcastle were going to play Champions league or not. Kind of indicates the gap even between 5th and top 4.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18042729

 

To summarise the choice quotes:

 

"We have players who are not on the salaries these top clubs can offer."

 

Demba's release clause has been widely publicised, there is some truth to it, and some untruth," said Pardew. "There is a clause there. There is a situation with his contract and we are in talks with him and his agent. It is not a foregone conclusion that he will stay..."

 

"The one security I have is that [owner] Mike Ashley is a difficult seller. He is not going to let someone go for £7m, he is going to want top, top money. But if Yohan Cabaye gets a call from Manchester United and they tell him he is going to be the next Paul Scholes I am not going to be able to stop him.

 

It is going to cost Manchester United a shedload of money, but until we have Champions League football, and we might have that by this weekend, we can not compete with that."

[Turkish]

On that note, some rather poignant quotes from Pardew about Newcastle that he made before he knew whether Newcastle were going to play Champions league or not. Kind of indicates the gap even between 5th and top 4.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18042729

 

To summarise the choice quotes:

 

"We have players who are not on the salaries these top clubs can offer."

 

Demba's release clause has been widely publicised, there is some truth to it, and some untruth," said Pardew. "There is a clause there. There is a situation with his contract and we are in talks with him and his agent. It is not a foregone conclusion that he will stay..."

 

"The one security I have is that [owner] Mike Ashley is a difficult seller. He is not going to let someone go for £7m, he is going to want top, top money. But if Yohan Cabaye gets a call from Manchester United and they tell him he is going to be the next Paul Scholes I am not going to be able to stop him.

 

It is going to cost Manchester United a shedload of money, but until we have Champions League football, and we might have that by this weekend, we can not compete with that."

 

It's going to be different for us. Apparantly.

[CB Fry]

 

The difference is now SFC could build what they want. If the owners thought a 50K superdome complete with hotel, ice rink and monkey petting zoo was a good idea they could do it. They have the resources to invest. The club before couldn't - it could now.

 

F*cks sake, this is hard work.

 

 

Nice summary which sums up perfectly the position of the self appointed "intelligent posters".

 

Maybe you people should stop making up bullshi t rationale about catchment areas and how much bigger we are than Everton and such like.

 

But now the truth is here. This is entirely founded on the greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent regardless of whether we actually need it or not.

 

The rest of us are happy to enjoy the ride, see what life is like in the Premier League 2012, and not spend our time sneering at our fantastic stadium that will deliver us higher attendances than half the division next year and the vast majority of clubs in the country would kill for.

 

One of the greatest seasons in our fine history and its hardly over before the self appointed "intelligent posters" have to talk about is champion's frigging league.

 

Total embarrassment. The kind of things you hear Div West Ham fans saying on phone ins.

 

Total embarrassment. Well done chaps.

[ericb]

Is no one else more than a little worried by the spectre of what happened to the skates? I mean i know we have rich owners now but if we spank the kind of money people want us to to get within a shot of the champions league (and **** me that'll be a lot, close to a billion i'd guess and that's not including the stadium) then the owners pull out we're in the sh.it big style.

 

Now aside from all the fantasy etc. i'd much rather see the club build slowly and within our means. And within that i count not thinking about expansion until we have proven that we have sold out/stayed up and have a waiting list on season tickets. If we know we can afford long term it's worth it, if it could leave us with potential debts that could cripple the club again then - in my view - we shouldn't build it.

 

I shall now await quoted stats that don't really prove anything and talk about how we currently have a rich owner so should do it, missing the point completely.

 

Oh and as an aside did anyone else hear the Man City fan on the channel four news last night? He said he loved winning the league & beating united to it in the way they have, but then called for questions to be asked about the money and the future of the club. Perhaps not all football fans are so blinded and dumb after all.

[Thedelldays]

Total embarrassment. The kind of things you hear Div West Ham fans saying on phone ins.

 

Total embarrassment. Well done chaps.

agree...all through the season..the bemusement on here about the KUMB forum and the "arrogant" west ham fans for booking a booze cruise to celebrate promotion etc.

 

getting promoted and now talking about attracting 100,000 fans and CL football is a whole new level of fukery really...and a complete embarrassment if any lurker is reading this.....EMBARRASSMENT

[sfc4prem]

agree...all through the season..the bemusement on here about the KUMB forum and the "arrogant" west ham fans for booking a booze cruise to celebrate promotion etc.

 

getting promoted and now talking about attracting 100,000 fans and CL football is a whole new level of fukery really...and a complete embarrassment if any lurker is reading this.....EMBARRASSMENT

 

I suggest you grow thicker skin if what another football fan says about a tiny minority of Saints fans embarrasses you... Deary f*cking me.

[Frank's cousin]

Nice summary which sums up perfectly the position of the self appointed "intelligent posters".

 

Maybe you people should stop making up bullshi t rationale about catchment areas and how much bigger we are than Everton and such like.

 

But now the truth is here. This is entirely founded on the greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent regardless of whether we actually need it or not.

 

The rest of us are happy to enjoy the ride, see what life is like in the Premier League 2012, and not spend our time sneering at our fantastic stadium that will deliver us higher attendances than half the division next year and the vast majority of clubs in the country would kill for.

 

One of the greatest seasons in our fine history and its hardly over before the self appointed "intelligent posters" have to talk about is champion's frigging league.

 

Total embarrassment. The kind of things you hear Div West Ham fans saying on phone ins.

 

Total embarrassment. Well done chaps.

 

 

You really are funny, if totally sad. ''Self appointed intelligent posters'' - you chaps are the only ones who have mentioned this in relation to intelligence - so great work there. Considering this discussion was founded on speculation and aspiration, its you cretins who are so obsessed by 'embarrassment' that have made the biggest jokes of yourselves by your constant negativity aimed at nothing more than fans with an opinion and desire to get excited about the clubs potential. Hardly crime of he century, but hey I forget, yor egos are so fragile; 'oh no, other fans might laugh...oh dear' Jeez.

 

 

To suggest that 'greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent' has been driving this is not only idiotic as it is offensive and highlights just how low you seem willing to stoop to score a point... unbelievable.

 

You seem hell been on acting like self appointed mods declaring topics and converstation as unsuitable, ridiculing anyone's opinion that just happens to be slightly different from your own, and top it off with a patronizing rhetoric.

 

Fans have smiles on their faces and are dreaming of future glories - enjoy the ride you say? Seems to me everyone is and part of that ride is a natural curiosity, a nature desire to speculate and enjoy dreams based on continued success - however realistic is not the issue; the only one giving the perception of not enjoying it are you self appoint 'thought police' who when all's said and done just come across as a bunch of WUMs or worse, miserable old ****s.

 

Considering you have such a vastly superior intellect, I find it odd that you fail to grasp the purpose of a Web forum - a place for free and open discussion on any issue that fans want to talk about... unles, heaven forbid, you consider its embarrassing.... do you really have so little self awareness that you cant see what a total arsehole you are being about a few fans who are dreamers?

[aintforever]

Nice summary which sums up perfectly the position of the self appointed "intelligent posters".

 

Maybe you people should stop making up bullshi t rationale about catchment areas and how much bigger we are than Everton and such like.

 

But now the truth is here. This is entirely founded on the greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent regardless of whether we actually need it or not.

 

The rest of us are happy to enjoy the ride, see what life is like in the Premier League 2012, and not spend our time sneering at our fantastic stadium that will deliver us higher attendances than half the division next year and the vast majority of clubs in the country would kill for.

 

One of the greatest seasons in our fine history and its hardly over before the self appointed "intelligent posters" have to talk about is champion's frigging league.

 

Total embarrassment. The kind of things you hear Div West Ham fans saying on phone ins.

 

Total embarrassment. Well done chaps.

 

I'm talking about potential to invest you mong, I'm not saying anything is going to happen just that we're in a great position.

 

To be fair, I can see why you think others on here are more intelligent than you.

[Frank's cousin]

Is no one else more than a little worried by the spectre of what happened to the skates? I mean i know we have rich owners now but if we spank the kind of money people want us to to get within a shot of the champions league (and **** me that'll be a lot, close to a billion i'd guess and that's not including the stadium) then the owners pull out we're in the sh.it big style.

 

Now aside from all the fantasy etc. i'd much rather see the club build slowly and within our means. And within that i count not thinking about expansion until we have proven that we have sold out/stayed up and have a waiting list on season tickets. If we know we can afford long term it's worth it, if it could leave us with potential debts that could cripple the club again then - in my view - we shouldn't build it.

 

I shall now await quoted stats that don't really prove anything and talk about how we currently have a rich owner so should do it, missing the point completely.

 

Oh and as an aside did anyone else hear the Man City fan on the channel four news last night? He said he loved winning the league & beating united to it in the way they have, but then called for questions to be asked about the money and the future of the club. Perhaps not all football fans are so blinded and dumb after all.

 

I dont believe anyone on here is expecting billions to be spent in some mad push. The premise, was that with if the FFP rules are implemented effctively, our investment in teh academy bears fruit and we are able to offer at least competitive wages and an environment for younger players to see out a first contract, we may get some periodic succes sthat we have never seen before in the PL era... its a hope based on reasonable rationale. The relative odds of it happening depend on a huge variety of things. All anyone has done is then speculate on how it might be possible, whether through familiy investment or growth in commercial revenues or heaven forbid gate receipts... all speculation, all of varying levels of probability. NO one has demanded it happen tomorrow, no one is suggested that NC should suddenly go out and demand 200 mil from the Liebherrs (although CB FY likes to infer that has been demanded), just good old fashioned pub talk... so its incrdulous that some have such a proble with it.... but wait, it might embarrass the weak minded... must be it.

[Frank's cousin]

I'm talking about potential to invest you mong, I'm not saying anything is going to happen just that we're in a great position.

 

To be fair, I can see why you think others on here are more intelligent than you.

 

Maybe he has more self awareness than I gave him credit for?

[Turkish]

Why? If NC has the funding is an issue? Sure if its at the expense of the first team' date=' but FFP rules will allow infrastructure development so thats not an issue - and anyway, only thinking about teh current squad and NOT about mid to long term is a recipe for disaster as seen down the road.[/b']

 

I am not saying we will suddenly see 15000 extra casual fans suddenly turn up in August, but good planning aligned with a growth strategy suggests that you consider these things in advance of need - whether its cost effective or not given the funding type is another seperate matter.

 

I dont believe anyone on here is expecting billions to be spent in some mad push. The premise' date=' was that with if the FFP rules are implemented effctively, our investment in teh academy bears fruit and we are able to offer at least competitive wages and an environment for younger players to see out a first contract, we may get some periodic succes sthat we have never seen before in the PL era... its a hope based on reasonable rationale. The relative odds of it happening depend on a huge variety of things. All anyone has done is then speculate on how it might be possible, whether through familiy investment or growth in commercial revenues or heaven forbid gate receipts... all speculation, all of varying levels of probability. [b']NO one has demanded it happen tomorrow, [B]no one is suggested that NC should suddenly go out and demand 200 mil from the Liebherr[/B]s (although CB FY likes to infer that has been demanded), just good old fashioned pub talk... so its incrdulous that some have such a proble with it.... but wait, it might embarrass the weak minded... must be it.

 

Are you sure about that "the voice of reason"? This morning that was a perfectly fine approach given Cortese has the funding.

Edited 15 May, 2012 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

 

You really are funny, if totally sad. ''Self appointed intelligent posters'' - you chaps are the only ones who have mentioned this in relation to intelligence - so great work there. Considering this discussion was founded on speculation and aspiration, its you cretins who are so obsessed by 'embarrassment' that have made the biggest jokes of yourselves by your constant negativity aimed at nothing more than fans with an opinion and desire to get excited about the clubs potential. Hardly crime of he century, but hey I forget, yor egos are so fragile; 'oh no, other fans might laugh...oh dear' Jeez.

 

 

To suggest that 'greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent' has been driving this is not only idiotic as it is offensive and highlights just how low you seem willing to stoop to score a point... unbelievable.

 

You seem hell been on acting like self appointed mods declaring topics and converstation as unsuitable, ridiculing anyone's opinion that just happens to be slightly different from your own, and top it off with a patronizing rhetoric.

 

Fans have smiles on their faces and are dreaming of future glories - enjoy the ride you say? Seems to me everyone is and part of that ride is a natural curiosity, a nature desire to speculate and enjoy dreams based on continued success - however realistic is not the issue; the only one giving the perception of not enjoying it are you self appoint 'thought police' who when all's said and done just come across as a bunch of WUMs or worse, miserable old ****s.

 

Considering you have such a vastly superior intellect, I find it odd that you fail to grasp the purpose of a Web forum - a place for free and open discussion on any issue that fans want to talk about... unles, heaven forbid, you consider its embarrassing.... do you really have so little self awareness that you cant see what a total arsehole you are being about a few fans who are dreamers?

 

 

I couldn't give two sh i ts if fans from other clubs are laughing at you. You're a tedious boring pr ick.

 

If you think the purpose of the web forum is to pound out the teethachingly dull essays every freaking day that you put us all through then god help us all.

 

I have never stopped you holding an opinion, even if you do want to bore us all with it. But I do reserve the right to point and laugh.

[Frank's cousin]

I couldn't give two sh i ts if fans from other clubs are laughing at you. You're a tedious boring pr ick.

 

If you think the purpose of the web forum is to pound out the teethachingly dull essays every freaking day that you put us all through then god help us all.

 

I have never stopped you holding an opinion, even if you do want to bore us all with it. But I do reserve the right to point and laugh.

 

ha ha calm down old fella, your'll do yourself an injury. 'tedious boring pr ick' ... maybe I was right about your lack of self awareness afterall... thing is I aint pointing an laughing, I leave that to those with nothing better to do with their lives than twitch behind the curtains... no I'm just amazed your so obseesed with it all...

[Frank's cousin]

Are you sure about that "the voice of reason"? This morning that was a perfectly fine approach given Cortese has the funding.

 

 

Once again astounded by your abilities; you really take the the award for missing the point - Can you really not see the difference between a simple concept as stating speculatively 'funding were in place, what is the problem' (which does not suggest any kind of demand, or expectation that this is or should be related to the Liebherrs) and the second statement which is pointing this out... I repeat.... one one has demanded anything from the Liebherrs....

[Turkish]

 

Once again astounded by your abilities; you really take the the award for missing the point - Can you really not see the difference between a simple concept as stating speculatively 'funding were in place, what is the problem' (which does not suggest any kind of demand, or expectation that this is or should be related to the Liebherrs) and the second statement which is pointing this out... I repeat.... one one has demanded anything from the Liebherrs....

 

This morning it was Do it now, do it now do it now. To hell with the cost, to hell if we can fill it now.

 

Tonight it's - no one is expecting it to happen tomorrow or demanding Cortese gets xxxx millions.

 

 

Backtracking quicker than an Italian tank.

[Frank's cousin]

This morning it was Do it now, do it now do it now. To hell with the cost, to hell if we can fill it now.

 

Tonight it's - no one is expecting it to happen tomorrow or demanding Cortese gets xxxx millions.

 

 

Backtracking quicker than an Italian tank.

 

If you want to make a complete **** of yourself making things up... go ahead, cant be arsed arguing with you anymore... pointless. Hope it makes you feelgood.

 

For the record, (unnecessary as most will know this from my posts)

 

1. I am as excited as anybody about possibilty/aspiration

2. I do not share the view that it should be done tomorrow, but acknowledge that there are precendents in business that suggest high risk strategies can work - IF liabilities created through required investment are low risk (hense if Markus had left provison for this and it was always part of the plan, it would be a low risk investment)

3. There are some that do believe it should be done tomorrow and I respect their opinion - I am not threatened by it, nor does it make me uncomfortable that it might mean someone is 'laughing at me or them'

4. Our true potential is impossible to assess right now, you cant base it on previous years because we have not been in this situation in the PL before, its new, but believe 100% that with the right approach, success and pricing strategy we could attract a higher average than the 32k we are restricted to... but like I and many have acknowledged, it is based on many variables

5. We do not know NCs thoughts - but the perception is he is ambitious and woould not be satisfied even mid term with bottom half prem - so what is his plan? what is his target and does he have a plan to realise it.... simple concept and one that I believe was worth discussing and speculating over

[Turkish]

If you want to make a complete **** of yourself making things up... go ahead, cant be arsed arguing with you anymore... pointless. Hope it makes you feelgood.

 

For the record, (unnecessary as most will know this from my posts)

 

1. I am as excited as anybody about possibilty/aspiration

2. I do not share the view that it should be done tomorrow, but acknowledge that there are precendents in business that suggest high risk strategies can work - IF liabilities created through required investment are low risk (hense if Markus had left provison for this and it was always part of the plan, it would be a low risk investment)

3. There are some that do believe it should be done tomorrow and I respect their opinion - I am not threatened by it, nor does it make me uncomfortable that it might mean someone is 'laughing at me or them'

4. Our true potential is impossible to assess right now, you cant base it on previous years because we have not been in this situation in the PL before, its new, but believe 100% that with the right approach, success and pricing strategy we could attract a higher average than the 32k we are restricted to... but like I and many have acknowledged, it is based on many variables

5. We do not know NCs thoughts - but the perception is he is ambitious and woould not be satisfied even mid term with bottom half prem - so what is his plan? what is his target and does he have a plan to realise it.... simple concept and one that I believe was worth discussing and speculating over

 

Post 1230 Frankie boy. Read it again. Your reply was in 1233 was "why not if the funding is in place"

 

Now you're saying you didn't mean that and no one is saying that it should be done tomorrow.

 

Pointing. Laughing. Pointing. Laugh.

 

Whilst you back track.

 

Pointing. Laughing. Pointing. Laughing.

Edited 15 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Frank's cousin]

Post 1230 Frankie boy. Read it again. Your reply was in 1233 was "why not if the funding is in place"

 

Now you're saying you didn't mean that and no one is saying that it should be done tomorrow.

 

Pointing. Laughing. Pointing. Laugh.

 

Whilst you back track.

 

Pointing. Laughing. Pointing. Laughing.

 

:rolleyes:You make yourself look more foolish with every reposte... as everyone can see you cant tell the difference between simple words such as 'why not IF funding is in place' (a speculative response to those suggesting the risk is too great) and me 'demanding' its done today... suggest you should have listened a little more at school and learned to read and c o m p r e h e n d...

[CB Fry]

ha ha calm down old fella' date=' your'll do yourself an injury. 'tedious boring pr ick' ... maybe I was right about your lack of self awareness afterall... thing is I aint pointing an laughing, I leave that to those with nothing better to do with their lives than twitch behind the curtains... no I'm just amazed your so obseesed with it all...[/quote']

 

It's pretty difficult to accuse other people of being obsessed about anything when you repeatedly churn out 1,000 word mega drone-essays which the vast majority of users on here can't wait to skim past. At least I raise a few smiles taking the s hit e out of you. That, sunshine, is the point of a forum.

[CanadaSaint]

That, sunshine, is the point of a forum.

 

I thought the point of a forum like this was for reasonably mature and intelligent people to discuss things in a reasonably mature and intelligent way, and have the occasional chuckle while they're doing it.

 

No wonder it's rapidly becoming the cyber-bullying domain of a few who would rather sneer, hurl needless insults and take the "s hit e." And who actually take pride in it.

 

It's really quite sad, given that the club we're here to discuss is on the crest of a wave and probably heading for an all-time high.

[The Kraken]

I thought the point of a forum like this was for reasonably mature and intelligent people to discuss things in a reasonably mature and intelligent way, and have the occasional chuckle while they're doing it.

 

No wonder it's rapidly becoming the cyber-bullying domain of a few who would rather sneer, hurl needless insults and take the "s hit e." And who actually take pride in it.

 

It's really quite sad, given that the club we're here to discuss is on the crest of a wave and probably heading for an all-time high.

 

Steady now, that's what kicked this thing off in the first place.....

[Frank's cousin]

It's pretty difficult to accuse other people of being obsessed about anything when you repeatedly churn out 1,000 word mega drone-essays which the vast majority of users on here can't wait to skim past. At least I raise a few smiles taking the s hit e out of you. That, sunshine, is the point of a forum.

 

Your life must be really interesting if this contributes to your days enjoyment. Sat their, big grin, what a pathetic fricjen loser you must be....

 

As to the 'vast majority' skimming past...who cares, I am sure you speak for them so it must be true... I will cry myself to sleep knowing this... 'sunshine' - you sound like a creepy uncle - scary...

[CB Fry]

Your life must be really interesting if this contributes to your days enjoyment. Sat their, big grin, what a pathetic fricjen loser you must be....

 

As to the 'vast majority' skimming past...who cares, I am sure you speak for them so it must be true... I will cry myself to sleep knowing this... 'sunshine' - you sound like a creepy uncle - scary...

 

Why on earth do you post on here if you don't enjoy it? You're on here more than I am.

 

If its a sense of duty then I think you're wasting your time.