New 5 year Plan

[stev2001]

In regards to this whole debate re the stadium. I'm not really going to be wrong unless I put a timeframe on it. CB Fry, Turkish, Sour Mash etc will be wrong as soon as the club announces an expansion or relocation and if the fanbase fills it well.

 

Those against my viewpoint, should the day come and the club make such an announcement what do you think you will say? I'm guessing you will wait for the first home game and subsequent ones, ready to pounce as soon as there is a poor turnout. Am I right?

 

Given Cortese has talked about expansion plans and his high ambitions on numerous occasions both in the press and according to those that claim to have gone to fans dinners, I think it is relatively safe to say Cortese isn't planning to sit back and let other clubs expand beyond Saints. In the same way as a League One club Cortese announced plans for a £15 million Champions League quality training ground and category 1 academy. These aren't the actions of a chairman content with Saints doing as they did under Rupert Lowe and bore along in Premier League mid table.

 

I think you are right but the expansion is definitely not happening anytime soon. There is nothing into the council for planning and I think if NC was looking to do anything at the end of next season this would need to be going in now. Even if there was half a chance it might happen I think he'd still put the plans in now. I think he will wait until the season gets underway, see what ST sales are like and see how the team performs. If this ticks both boxes, plans may go in just before or at the end of the season. Plans would then be considered in the 2013-14 season, work finished by the end of the following season.

So my prediction if all goes to plan we will have an extension for the 2015-16 season which would also give us a bigger stadium for the rugby world cup in 2015.

[ericb]

Again, not a like for like comparison.

 

- That game was in the FA Cup.

- Saints fans beforehand knew Man Utd would likely put out a B team (and they did), and Saints would rest players and not have a full strength side (which also happened)

- The Saints team was a team in League One, any future games will be with Saints with a Premier League squad and Premier League players to cheer on, not 3rd tier players.

- It was live on terrestrial TV

- In order to get a ticket if not a season ticket holder you had to buy it in conjunction with another low profile League One game, so for a non season ticket holding adult it would cost £57!

- Despite all of that it was still the biggest attendance in England on that day (despite Saints being a 3rd tier team), it even beat the attendance for the Everton vs Chelsea game at Goodison Park on the same day.

 

Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance.

 

Yeah jesus i mean you can't cherry pick the games or seasons can you? It's not like MLG would do that in his mentally unhinged obsession of all things statistical.

 

Oh hang on a minute..... there was that one game where we got a higher attendance than Everton.....

 

I've gotta say it's incredible really MLG sounds more and more like my heavily autistic uncle by the minute, he too does the whole "what if" hypothetical questions based in absurd realities.

 

The idea that comparing a 25,000 stadium (as in stoneham) that was actually known to not be big enough at the time but suited our cost and profit structure better - i'm fairly sure Lowe said somewhere that ancillary extras like the hotel etc would earn us more money as was the trend at the time - at hypothetically sold out levels, to the much more realistic comparison of having never maxed out our season tickets sales at SMS - which by anyone's means is a far more logical and intelligent comparison since it's actually quantifiable.

 

As for the idea that Wolves would ever sell out a 50,000 stadium....... Utterly, utterly insane!

 

Anyway for what it's worth i think Dubai Phil's post a while back should really have ended this thread as it made a lot of sense and rang true, in the same way that Turkish/Charming Man etc saying we should actually see if things are financially viable before doing them makes a lot of sense.

 

Btw i'm impressed how MLG has managed to completely derail this and turn into into his favourite thing, an unprovable debate on attendances, neatly side stepping the point about aiming for champions league in the next five years that even he must clearly see is just not feasible

 

Now whilst i'd never put anyone on an internet forum on ignore i do seriously think i might just skip over MLG's posts from now onwards, god knows what's going on in his head but he lives in a totally bizarre fantasy world and is fairly extremist in that position too. For your own personal well being though MLG i really do think you need to get a little more in your life than football since your obsession is quite simply not healthy, and your statistical zealot stance is really a good inkling of autism.

 

Go out and get yourself laid mush, or maybe discover going on the **** with your mates (assuming you have them) since you really need to drop this attendance thing lest people start to think you're a touch..... odd.

[Turkish]

In regards to this whole debate re the stadium. I'm not really going to be wrong unless I put a timeframe on it. CB Fry, Turkish, Sour Mash etc will be wrong as soon as the club announces an expansion or relocation and if the fanbase fills it well.

 

Those against my viewpoint, should the day come and the club make such an announcement what do you think you will say? I'm guessing you will wait for the first home game and subsequent ones, ready to pounce as soon as there is a poor turnout. Am I right?

 

Given Cortese has talked about expansion plans and his high ambitions on numerous occasions both in the press and according to those that claim to have gone to fans dinners, I think it is relatively safe to say Cortese isn't planning to sit back and let other clubs expand beyond Saints. In the same way as a League One club Cortese announced plans for a £15 million Champions League quality training ground and category 1 academy. These aren't the actions of a chairman content with Saints doing as they did under Rupert Lowe and bore along in Premier League mid table.

 

We will only be wrong if we don't instantly sell out 40,000 a season every week. Don't you think the fact Cortese isn't expanding now in a "build it and the will come" and "5,000 man united and 10,000 fans from Weymouth, Bristol, trowbridge and truro will come here to watch premier league football" means that actually he agrees with the so called "retarded logic posters" and not the self titled "enlightened posters" or "ambitious posters" no?

 

Actually why isn't he building it and they will come right now?!! He should have read the views of MLG and Les Bender and those other freaks that we can fill 45,000 now. build it, build it, built it. Cortese has a Lack of ambiton, dont forget we sold out in the premier league once in 2005 against Bolton, yes?!

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Forget what Leeds did last season or what a Man United did in 1964. Or what Chelsea did in 1984. Or what Sunderland did in 1978. Or what Wolves are doing. Or what Reading might do one day. Or if man walked on the moon. If Cortese was 100% confident we coul fill more than a 32,000 stadium every week in the premier league why arent the builders in right now? Surely he'd have a plan for this.

[Matthew Le God]

If Cortese was 100% confident we coul fill more than a 32,000 stadium every week in the premier league why arent the builders in right now?

 

Have you considered the design stage with architects and planning permission and consultation with the council for a stadium expansion or relocation takes a great deal of time and Saints were promoted to the Premier League earlier than Liebherr/Cortese thought they would be?

 

Talking of "builders in right now" as you asked, have you seen what is happening at Staplewood? As a League One club Cortese revealed a Champions League quality training facility and academy, that is easier and quicker to get through than a stadium capacity increase or relocation.

 

Why do you think Cortese went for such a high quality and expensive training ground and academy costing £15 million if he doesn't have ambition of a very high level for Saints? Could he not have settled for a mid table run of the mill training ground and academy?

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[BlakeySFC]

Hilarious watching all of you argue over hypothetical theories such as the mythical '5 year plan'

 

Personally, I think the old 5 year plan will be torn up. And replaced by a new one...and at the end of that 5 year plan is.....Europa League football at St Mary's.

 

Then if we achieve that before/on-time then we can push ahead with another 5 year plan to get into the Champions League, I personally have no doubt about it that the sky's the limit as far as Cortese's concerned.

 

He's put his money where his mouth is, got us to the Premier League, invested wisely in the stadium infrastructure/training ground infrastructure/staffing infrastructure and set the club on course for success.

 

A bit of money splashed in the summer, some shrewd purchases and we could finish as high as 10th next season. Keep the squad in tact, add 3/4 players in summer 2013 and you could have a squad capable of getting Europa League football for the 2014/15 season. MAYBE.

 

I'm not arguing over issues such as stadium attendance, thinking we're not good enough/don't have enough money to get into Europe etc. These are hypothetical issues, why argue about them.

 

WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE, let's enjoy it!

[Turkish]

Have you considered the design stage with architects and planning permission and consultation with the council for a stadium expansion or relocation takes a great deal of time and Saints were promoted to the Premier League earlier than Liebherr/Cortese thought they would be?

 

Talking of "builders in right now" as you asked, have you seen what is happening at Staplewood? As a League One club Cortese revealed a Champions League quality training facility and academy, that is easier and quicker to get through than a stadium capacity increase or relocation.

 

Why do you think Cortese went for such a high quality and expensive training ground and academy costing £15 million if he doesn't have ambition of a very high level for Saints? Could he not have settled for a mid table run of the mill training ground and academy?

 

But you said. £15m investment in the academy is nothing for a family whose wealth is £3b. Why aren't they Also spending right now the £20 odd million it would cost to turn st Mary's into a 40,000 stadium. We are building for the champions league don't forget and have been since our league one days. Why isn't he building it right now?

[Matthew Le God]

But you said. £15m investment in the academy is nothing for a family whose wealth is £3b. Why aren't they Also spending right now the £20 odd million it would cost to turn st Mary's into a 40,000 stadium. We are building for the champions league don't forget and have been since our league one days.

 

Read my first sentence.

[Matthew Le God]

Yeah jesus i mean you can't cherry pick the games or seasons can you? It's not like MLG would do that in his mentally unhinged obsession of all things statistical.

 

Oh hang on a minute..... there was that one game where we got a higher attendance than Everton.....

 

I've gotta say it's incredible really MLG sounds more and more like my heavily autistic uncle by the minute, he too does the whole "what if" hypothetical questions based in absurd realities.

 

The idea that comparing a 25,000 stadium (as in stoneham) that was actually known to not be big enough at the time but suited our cost and profit structure better - i'm fairly sure Lowe said somewhere that ancillary extras like the hotel etc would earn us more money as was the trend at the time - at hypothetically sold out levels, to the much more realistic comparison of having never maxed out our season tickets sales at SMS - which by anyone's means is a far more logical and intelligent comparison since it's actually quantifiable.

 

As for the idea that Wolves would ever sell out a 50,000 stadium....... Utterly, utterly insane!

 

Anyway for what it's worth i think Dubai Phil's post a while back should really have ended this thread as it made a lot of sense and rang true, in the same way that Turkish/Charming Man etc saying we should actually see if things are financially viable before doing them makes a lot of sense.

 

Btw i'm impressed how MLG has managed to completely derail this and turn into into his favourite thing, an unprovable debate on attendances, neatly side stepping the point about aiming for champions league in the next five years that even he must clearly see is just not feasible

 

Now whilst i'd never put anyone on an internet forum on ignore i do seriously think i might just skip over MLG's posts from now onwards, god knows what's going on in his head but he lives in a totally bizarre fantasy world and is fairly extremist in that position too. For your own personal well being though MLG i really do think you need to get a little more in your life than football since your obsession is quite simply not healthy, and your statistical zealot stance is really a good inkling of autism.

 

Go out and get yourself laid mush, or maybe discover going on the **** with your mates (assuming you have them) since you really need to drop this attendance thing lest people start to think you're a touch..... odd.

 

Aren't statistics exactly what stadium expansion or relocation decisions should be based on?

 

Are you a taxi driver? "You can prove anyone with facts"...

 

[video=youtube;4n-UGQcG3Jw]

 

As for your comments on autism, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. But why does that matter? You use it in a seemingly derogatory way.

[Turkish]

Read my first sentence.

 

I have. Still doesn't explain why we aren't building today. Why the bricklayers aren't laying bricks Now. You love to quote Cortese yet the link below is in September 2011. He expected promtion then. Plenty of time to get the plans in for expanion. We then have been promoted and by the statement below this was only to be expected. So why aren't the builders in place right onw? Did Cortese not know about all the fans the you and Wes Bender speak of from Wareham and Weymouth and Shepton Mallett and Exeter and Trowbridge and Arudell and Man U fans in Epsom just waiting for us to be prompted to watch premier league football at St Mary's? It sounds from thrse quotes he was expecting to be promoted this season. So why are no builders in place as we speak? Acccording the the self titled enlightend posters in here the rescource and the ambition and the feasibility studies have been done. so why are their no builders at SMS Right now, why not, given promotion was a given according to Cortese in September 2011. it's odd don't you think?

 

http://www.thesaintshub.com/nicolacortese2.html

Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Matthew Le God]

I have. Still doesn't explain why we aren't building today. Why the bricklayers aren't laying bricks Now. You love to quote Cortese yet the link below is a lack of ambition is it not. We have been promoted and by the statement below this was only to be expected. So why aren't the builders in place right onw? Did Cortese not know about all the fans the you and Wes Bender speak of from Wareham and Weymouth and Shepton Mallett and Exeter and Trowbridge and Arudell and Man U fans in Epsom just waiting for us to be prompted to watch premier league football at St Mary's? It sounds for this interview he was expecting to be promoted. So why are no builders in place as we speak? It's odd, no?

 

http://www.thesaintshub.com/nicolacortese2.html

 

As I said...

 

"Have you considered the design stage with architects and planning permission and consultation with the council for a stadium expansion or relocation takes a great deal of time and Saints were promoted to the Premier League earlier than Liebherr/Cortese thought they would be?"

 

Cortese may well have been confident of promotion earlier this season, but the council aren't going to agree to expansion plans that aren't potentially needed for years to come. The club is now ahead of schedule and can now if it chooses use its promotion to justify to the council that its plans have merit.

[ericb]

Aren't statistics exactly what stadium expansion or relocation decisions should be based on?

 

Yup for the people that have to make the decisions they're exactly that, for a normal bloke that goes to the football and has a laugh with their mates it's verging on the insane to be so obsessed by them. You're strangling the fun out of supporting saints with you're bizarre attitude nipper, you seriously need to take a long look at your life if you ask me.

[Matthew Le God]

Yup for the people that have to make the decisions they're exactly that, for a normal bloke that goes to the football and has a laugh with their mates it's verging on the insane to be so obsessed by them. You're strangling the fun out of supporting saints with you're bizarre attitude nipper, you seriously need to take a long look at your life if you ask me.

 

If it bothers you so much, put me on "ignore".

[Turkish]

As I said...

 

"Have you considered the design stage with architects and planning permission and consultation with the council for a stadium expansion or relocation takes a great deal of time and Saints were promoted to the Premier League earlier than Liebherr/Cortese thought they would be?"

 

Cortese may well have been confident of promotion earlier this season, but the council aren't going to agree to expansion plans that aren't potentially needed for years to come. The club is now ahead of schedule and can now if it chooses use its promotion to justify to the council that its plans have merit.

 

But Cortese has ambiton and rescource. What is £18m to expand in a £3b wealth? In september 20111 he expected promotion after being in the championship for one month. Its a fact, its on record as saying such. Plenty of time to get expasion plans goingn. Didnt he talk of champions lewgue football when we were in league one? Are you saying it takes over 2 years for the council to approve an 8000 expansion to a football stadium?!!!

 

Hes had all this evidence of selling out against Bolton in 2005 and an average of 30,000 in our relegation season. Of the literally thousands of fans that didn't bother Trying to get tickets when they thought they might not get one for big games in 2003. Im sure he looked at Chelsea crowds in 1984 and Sunderlands in 1978. He might even have spoken to people wno can remember thr Munich air crash and when Liverpool dominated euorpe and when people used PCs and not tablets. Or considered the views od loons that claim we have more fans than Everton. still despite this we aren't expandng today. Right now.Why is that?

Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

Don't encourage him Turkish. You'll set him off again.

[Matthew Le God]

still despite this we aren't expandng today. Right now.Why is that?

 

Read post #1116 again. We have no idea what the club is doing behind closed doors at the moment now that promotion has been confirmed.

[Turkish]

Read post #1116 again. We have no idea what the club is doing behind closed doors at the moment now that promotion has been confirmed.

 

I did and as usual it makes. No sense. We've just been promoted, spent 14m on an academy to make us amazing but

Where are the builders? Was down at SMS last week, couldn't see any. Cutting it a bit fine a 40k stadium come August no?

Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Matthew Le God]

Where are the builders? Was down at SMS last week, couldn't see any. Cutting it a bit fine a 40k stadium come August no?

 

Read post #1116 for a 3rd time.

[Turkish]

Read post #1116 for a 3rd time.

 

But we sold out against Bolton in 2004. Surely the builders should be there now. Cortese is aiming for the champions league and said back in september we are going up. Where are the builders?

[Matthew Le God]

You seem to be under the impression that expansion of a stadium can be done at the flick of a switch. Look how long it took for the training ground to go from public announcement (things were going on months before that) to main construction starting - it was over a year and a half. A stadium expansion will take longer to both design, get through planning permission and public consultation. Of course it isn't happening this summer, doesn't mean it couldn't in summer of 2013 or 2014 once everything is sorted.

 

We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors now promotion has been confirmed. As I said earlier, which you overlooked... "Cortese may well have been confident of promotion earlier this season, but the council aren't going to agree to expansion plans that aren't potentially needed for years to come. The club is now ahead of schedule and can now if it chooses use its promotion to justify to the council that its plans have merit".

[Matthew Le God]

But we sold out against Bolton in 2004.

 

I see you like bringing that up, highlights that you didn't understand my point. I used Bolton as an example of a less glamorous Premier League opponent and Man Utd as an example of a glamorous one. I could have picked a number of other teams as examples for both of them. Saints sold out games against those at the top and bottom whilst in the Premier League, they did so whether they were in mid-table between 2001 and 2004 OR whilst being relegated in 2004/05.

[Turkish]

You seem to be under the impression that expansion of a stadium can be done at the flick of a switch. Look how long it took for the training ground to go from public announcement (things were going on months before that) to main construction starting - it was over a year and a half. A stadium expansion will take longer to both design, get through planning permission and public consultation. Of course it isn't happening this summer, doesn't mean it couldn't in summer of 2013 or 2014 once everything is sorted.

 

We have no idea what is going on behind closed doors now promotion has been confirmed. As I said earlier, which you overlooked... "Cortese may well have been confident of promotion earlier this season, but the council aren't going to agree to expansion plans that aren't potentially needed for years to come. The club is now ahead of schedule and can now if it chooses use its promotion to justify to the council that its plans have merit".

 

 

Thank god for that. At least the council are sensible and won't approve an planing permission for expansion until,it's proven that it's needeed and won't listen to the arguments of clowns who say "but we sold against Bolton 7 years ago" thanks for proving mine and CB Crys point.

 

Funny how your now backtracking on your thread a little while back about what you expect to see announced soon.

 

Come on fella, have a day off.

Edited 13 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Matthew Le God]

Thank god for that. At least the council are sensible and won't approve an planing permission for expansion until,it's proven that it's needeed

 

Read the last sentence of my post you quoted.

 

won't listen to the arguments of clowns who say "but we sold against Bolton 7 years ago" thanks for proving mine and CB Crys point.

 

See post #1126

[Turkish]

So despite all your examples why isn't corstese expanding now? He has evicende of 30k crowds in 2005. That we sold out once against Bolton. Of Chelseas in 1984. Of Sheffield Wednesday's in league one last week. people will want to see Man United. He is planning for the premier league and has been since our league one days. So wherea re the builders? I dont get it.

[Matthew Le God]

So despite all your examples why isn't corstese expanding now? He has evicende of 30k crowds in 2005.

 

See post #1116

 

He is planning for the premier league and has been since our league one days. So wherea re the builders? I dont get it.

 

See post #1125

 

I dont get it.

 

That has been apparent for some considerable time.

[Turkish]

See post #1116

 

 

 

See post #1125

 

 

 

That has been apparent for some considerable time.

 

So you can't answer that despite you only recently starting a thread staying that what you expect to see announced soon you can't answer why despite all, the facts you use Cortese doesn't seem to Feel the same . Look at wolves, look at Reading, look at Sunderland look at chelsea in 1984. Loook af sunderland in 1978, None of it matters because today right now, we aren't expaninding. Despite Cortese being aware of the 10000 fans from Weymouth, Devon and so Wales that are planning to come next season to watch premier league football. In the premier legue in 2012/13 season SMS will hold 32,500 fans. Exactly what me, cb fry, sour mash and this charming man said it should.

 

End of arguement and good night xx

[Matthew Le God]

So you can't answer

 

I gave you answers, which you choose to ignore, so when you repeated the same questions I pointed you towards my original responses.

[CB Fry]

Forget what Leeds did last season or what a Man United did in 1964. Or what Chelsea did in 1984. Or what Sunderland did in 1978. Or what Wolves are doing. Or what Reading might do one day. Or if man walked on the moon. If Cortese was 100% confident we coul fill more than a 32,000 stadium every week in the premier league why arent the builders in right now? Surely he'd have a plan for this.

 

Thank god you didn't mention Leeds. If we've all learnt something its that we are perfectly comparable to Sunderland, Chelsea, Wolves, Forest, Derby, Spurs, West Ham, Reading, Man City and Man United. And Everton. Definitely tiny Everton.

 

But never, ever, ever Leeds. Never. Ever.

Edited 13 May, 2012 by CB Fry

[CB Fry]

Hilarious watching all of you argue over hypothetical theories such as the mythical '5 year plan'

 

Personally, I think the old 5 year plan will be torn up. And replaced by a new one...and at the end of that 5 year plan is.....Europa League football at St Mary's.

 

Then if we achieve that before/on-time then we can push ahead with another 5 year plan to get into the Champions League, I personally have no doubt about it that the sky's the limit as far as Cortese's concerned.

 

He's put his money where his mouth is, got us to the Premier League, invested wisely in the stadium infrastructure/training ground infrastructure/staffing infrastructure and set the club on course for success.

 

A bit of money splashed in the summer, some shrewd purchases and we could finish as high as 10th next season. Keep the squad in tact, add 3/4 players in summer 2013 and you could have a squad capable of getting Europa League football for the 2014/15 season. MAYBE.

 

I'm not arguing over issues such as stadium attendance, thinking we're not good enough/don't have enough money to get into Europe etc. These are hypothetical issues, why argue about them.

 

WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE, let's enjoy it!

 

Amen brother. Not good enough for the autistics on here but fine by me.

[david in sweden]

This thread seem to have grown out of all proportion and turned into a dialogue between several people on the size of the stadium...!

and whether there is any benefit to extending the size of SMS.

 

I looked back at #1 from Cheam Saints which was about the next five years. A 5 year plan is about a time frame for a target. NC said we had a 5 year plan to reach the Prem. We did it in 3 ..so we can scrap that plan. unless.. the qual. to CL is still part of the plan ..so have we got 2 years left.? ...or is there a new 5 year plan?. Ask Nicola Cortese.!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for the discussion about potential crowd size, and catchment areas is also hard to quantify. Something I wrote about on a recent thread.

- it's an expensive exercise trying to double guess the Saints fan base who might attend every game /season even given good league position and attractive opposition.

 

Costs of extending SMS (that I've seen published on here) estimated the cost to be around £1 million per extra seat (all things considered).

Even extending SMS to 38-42 capacity would be an investment that would never yield a profit for many years to come, especially in view of the fact that with only 19 home games in the Prem. even match day sell out games would bring in less supporters than this past season - when we had 23 home games.

 

Looking back at the previous period (before ground restrictions) at The Dell, shows that - even in our better seasons the average gates didn't come anywhere near the (then) ground capacity. Pre 1966 crowds averaged 16-18K and rose to around 25K - after 1966 promotion. Despite low league positions we still drew av. 23K in the worst seasons. The old Dell ground record 31,044 in 1969 (a game that I actually attended) was in part due only because we had beaten MU 4-1 at Old Trafford two months earlier, whereas we averaged less than 23K during that season.

 

The subsequent reduction of ground size to all-seater stadium reduced the Dell to 16K, the site at Stoneham (often mentioned) was owned by SFC, but the rumour was that the Councils concerned ...couldn't agree on building plans and it didn't get approval. I think the truth was that the members of the old Board had run the club like a family business for decades and often dipped into their own pockets when we had to buy a player, and didn't have the wherewithal for such a big project....until the Chairmanship changed hands and SMS was built and the attendances went back upto around 30K.

 

In this - Lowe & Co. saw the possibilities, and rightly guessed that there was still a good-sized fan base out there waiting to buy tickets.

 

I previously quoted season 2002-03. A good league position and FA Cup Final gave us a crowd average around 30k almost every game....but the question still remains ...is there another 10K regular fans out there - willing to come nearly every match - (even to see the Fulhams / Swanseas) - and make the investment worthwhile.? The gate money from League games is barely 30% of season income for many Prem. clubs.

 

One might argue ..if an extra 10K seats will cost say... £15 million..it's drop in the ocean when we an get £50-60 million a year from TV money and provided we don't have to pay our top players 50 K / week. every season?

 

Unlike some other clubs, Nicola Cortese has shown that he doesn't rush out and give the story to the media every time he has a new idea, (but waits until deals are signed and sealed) - its not his style. I'd expect no difference if we were ...(say)... *** to sign an English international this summer, or start to extend SMS (to whatever size).

 

(*** NO! ..I don't expect that to happen either).

Edited 13 May, 2012 by david in sweden

[Wes Tender]

Amen brother. Not good enough for the autistics on here but fine by me.

 

You respond to a perfectly reasonable post as if it is in total agreement with everything you say, therefore that it refutes anything posted by others, whom you label autistics. Thus once again you make it clear in the eyes of any sensible, rational person that you are totally incapable of intelligent debate without resorting to puerile, childish insults against any who might hold a different viewpoint.

 

However, I don't recall many disagreeing with the points raised by Blakey regarding what he sees as a reasonable step by step progression. He sees those other issues of stadium attendance, finance, our future ability as a squad, etc, as hypothetical and won't discuss them on that basis. However, you find yourself very ready to discuss those issues and amusingly don't see the irony of Blakey saying how hilarious it is reading all these hypothetical theories.

 

But he must have got that wrong, eh, Fry? Everything that you say will happen must be fact and you have the benefit of all that historical perspective to assist you, even though there has never been a set of circumstances in all of our past history whereby we have such a strong financial base on which to build.

[PhilippineSaint]

Five year plans happen every year.

 

The next five year plan starts the year after the first five year plan.

 

At present we will be in the first year of a five year plan.

 

Last year we were in the first year of a five year plan.

 

When Cortese said we had a five year plan it was the first year of that said plan it will be modified and adjusted as the year (note singular) goes by then there will be another five year plan.

 

it is not that hard to comprehend although appears to be by some on here.

[B Rabbit]

A stadium expansion will take longer to both design, get through planning permission and public consultation. Of course it isn't happening this summer, doesn't mean it couldn't in summer of 2013 or 2014 once everything is sorted.

 

Planning Permission, once submitted, takes up to 13 weeks max. In theory, he could have had the design done and all the relevant consultations and permission granted easily since he's been here.... They could be building by now all joking aside. But we're not.

 

It will happen eventually one way or another but it will be based upon a safe knowledge that we have high demand for tickets at the prices we are charging and what league we are in...

 

 

Seriously son, how old are you? You're like a stubborn child... But I'm guessing you're about 27 and like said earlier.... Autistic and just can't see the wood through the trees.

[Turkish]

Planning Permission, once submitted, takes up to 13 weeks max. In theory, he could have had the design done and all the relevant consultations and permission granted easily since he's been here.... They could be building by now all joking aside. But we're not.

 

It will happen eventually one way or another but it will be based upon a safe knowledge that we have high demand for tickets at the prices we are charging and what league we are in...

 

 

Seriously son, how old are you? You're like a stubborn child... But I'm guessing you're about 27 and like said earlier.... Autistic and just can't see the wood through the trees.

 

Thank you for confirming Mr Rabbit. I'll wait for MLG to tell us why Cortese isn't expanding right now on that basis as he will be aware of all the evidence that the self titled "enlightened and intellegent posters" have presented in their case.

[stev2001]

Planning Permission, once submitted, takes up to 13 weeks max. In theory, he could have had the design done and all the relevant consultations and permission granted easily since he's been here.... They could be building by now all joking aside. But we're not.

 

It will happen eventually one way or another but it will be based upon a safe knowledge that we have high demand for tickets at the prices we are charging and what league we are in...

 

 

Seriously son, how old are you? You're like a stubborn child... But I'm guessing you're about 27 and like said earlier.... Autistic and just can't see the wood through the trees.

 

Thing is, planning has not been submitted so definitely won't happen this summer.

[CB Fry]

You respond to a perfectly reasonable post as if it is in total agreement with everything you say, therefore that it refutes anything posted by others, whom you label autistics. Thus once again you make it clear in the eyes of any sensible, rational person that you are totally incapable of intelligent debate without resorting to puerile, childish insults against any who might hold a different viewpoint.

 

However, I don't recall many disagreeing with the points raised by Blakey regarding what he sees as a reasonable step by step progression. He sees those other issues of stadium attendance, finance, our future ability as a squad, etc, as hypothetical and won't discuss them on that basis. However, you find yourself very ready to discuss those issues and amusingly don't see the irony of Blakey saying how hilarious it is reading all these hypothetical theories.

 

But he must have got that wrong, eh, Fry? Everything that you say will happen must be fact and you have the benefit of all that historical perspective to assist you, even though there has never been a set of circumstances in all of our past history whereby we have such a strong financial base on which to build.

 

 

Jesus Christ you could bore for Britain.

 

It's you bunch of clowns churning out hypothetical fantasy scenarios, all I am doing is pointing and laughing. And its you pompously describing yourself as 'enlightened' and as 'the intelligent posters'.

 

I'm not saying anything will happen. Just laughing at you. Pointing. Laughing.

 

Keep the funnies coming from the 'enlightened' ones, won't you.

[Trader]

Costs of extending SMS (that I've seen published on here) estimated the cost to be around £1 million per extra seat

 

So another 8000 seats would cost 8 billion quid then.

 

Seems a bit steep - can't see Cortese going for that!

[Red]

So another 8000 seats would cost 8 billion quid then.

 

Seems a bit steep - can't see Cortese going for that!

 

But he quoted in bold text, so it must be true!! Maybe NC could blow the whole ML estate to get another 3K seats coz we is Saints ni-it :-)

[SaintBobby]

Gees...some people are really obsessed by this stadium expansion thing.

 

We will jack up prices for the present capacity by quite a lot before we expand. If we can fill 32,500 regularly at c. £45 a ticket, then it's worth expanding. But not until then really.

[hypochondriac]

I think the point is that in the last few years games have been quite cheap and I found myself making last minute decisions to go quite a few times. That won't happen this year as prices will be significantly more. Thousands of others will be in the same boat.

[saintjay77]

What is this argument all about? Going round in circles with possible figures that mean nothing is a bit pointless isn't it?

 

For what it's worth I think if the 5 year plan is being re-written then the first 2 or 3 years of it will be all about staying out of the bottom 3 and if that is successful the remaining years will be about small progression. Talk of CL or prem titles is all well and good for an ultimate target but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

IF we can produce world class tallest via the acadamy and IF we can keep hold of them then POSSIBLY we can look towards working our way up to challenge for some decent honours. To be up against clubs that can blow £600 million in a few years means achieving that kind of success is almost impossible. Financial fair play rules may end up levelling the playing field a little but not allot IMO.

 

So 5 years aims are to be a stable Prem club IMO and possible titles, cups and CL apearences might not get discussed seriously until we succeed in 5 year plan versions 2, 3, 4 and 5.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Forgetting the detail for one minute, anyone who doubts NC's determination to lead Saints into the top half of the Prem and potentially beyond must have been living permanently in a secluded cave for the last three years. The five year plan remains - individual targets will have been moved by necessity. I have no doubt SMS will be expanded or a new stadium built (from the horses mouth) - the timing of this will not be apparent until we have performed in the Prem with the revitalised squad decided over this summer. Planning may start as early as January 2013 if things look really encouraging - but we'll not know of course until the construction starts or it's announced on the OS.

[Turkish]

Forgetting the detail for one minute, anyone who doubts NC's determination to lead Saints into the top half of the Prem and potentially beyond must have been living permanently in a secluded cave for the last three years. The five year plan remains - individual targets will have been moved by necessity. I have no doubt SMS will be expanded or a new stadium built (from the horses mouth) - the timing of this will not be apparent until we have performed in the Prem with the revitalised squad decided over this summer. Planning may start as early as January 2013 if things look really encouraging - but we'll not know of course until the construction starts or it's announced on the OS.

 

I agree with this. There are quite a few people on here who have put forward a number of reasons as to why we should expand right away. Yet Cortese isn't despite no Idoubt also being aware of the fact we sold out against Bolton in 2005 and Wolves expanding and averaged 30k in our relegation season. These self titled "intellgent posters" are clearly doubting Corteses ambition because we are not expaning now despite all the evidence they have to support it. What is evident is that Cortese shares the view of the "retarded logic" posters. Who maybe want to see if we can sell out every week first in the premier league.

[stev2001]

Forgetting the detail for one minute, anyone who doubts NC's determination to lead Saints into the top half of the Prem and potentially beyond must have been living permanently in a secluded cave for the last three years. The five year plan remains - individual targets will have been moved by necessity. I have no doubt SMS will be expanded or a new stadium built (from the horses mouth) - the timing of this will not be apparent until we have performed in the Prem with the revitalised squad decided over this summer. Planning may start as early as January 2013 if things look really encouraging - but we'll not know of course until the construction starts or it's announced on the OS.

 

I agree with this too. I think expansion is more about how we perform in the coming season (with survival a must) rather than about how many STs or sell outs we get. These will be based on the pricing rather than our support base. we all know every game will be a sell out if the pricing is right.

[Turkish]

I agree with this too. I think expansion is more about how we perform in the coming season (with survival a must) rather than about how many STs or sell outs we get. These will be based on the pricing rather than our support base. we all know every game will be a sell out if the pricing is right.

 

Really? Wolves are still expanding despite relegation. Are you suggesting Cortese lacks the ambtion of the Wolves chairman despite having considerably more money?

[stev2001]

Really? Wolves are still expanding despite relegation. Are you suggesting Cortese lacks the ambtion of the Wolves chairman despite having considerably more money?

 

Wolves planned for and started expanding well before they were in any danger of relegation.

Actually I think we will follow the wolves model. Assess the first year, plan the next year and build in the 3rd year. If we get relegated at the end of the 3rd year then thats just unlucky.

[Saint86]

Planning Permission, once submitted, takes up to 13 weeks max. In theory, he could have had the design done and all the relevant consultations and permission granted easily since he's been here.... They could be building by now all joking aside. But we're not.

 

It will happen eventually one way or another but it will be based upon a safe knowledge that we have high demand for tickets at the prices we are charging and what league we are in...

 

 

Seriously son, how old are you? You're like a stubborn child... But I'm guessing you're about 27 and like said earlier.... Autistic and just can't see the wood through the trees.

 

 

Lol good luck with that - Designers of High Speed 2 will blow you if you can get them permission within 13 weeks. Good Lords. You are either and amazing troll or an overoppinionated no nothing. A football stadium is not a house. They have to consider the extra 10-15k people that will be flooding southampton which can't handle traffic for west Quay as it is, let alone when a large crusie ship is in. There is not enough parking, policing is an issue. Noise levels. How does it fit into their development plan for the city since developing St Mary's comes after the exisitng 20year plan.... My god, I mean, do you imagine that the Hindhead tunnel was submitted and approved within 13weeks? ARE YOU FOR REAL? High speed 2 - Hi guys, we are just gonna put 20 trains an our 50metres behind you back garden fence, you don't mind do you? You do? well that is unlucky... Its going to be approved in 13weeks and your house price just went down 90%!!! Enjoy!!!!!

[saintjay77]

Thing is, champions league and prem titles may well honestly be some of cortese's targets but as soon as any of us dare to mention them in the same breath as our club there are many people quick to jump on their case and shoot them down as ridiculess and deluded.

 

Personally I think these targets are achievable even on a measured approach living within our means, but only if a mountain of targets and possible scenarios go our way between now and the next 10 to 15 years. I can't see it happening before then and if things go our way there is still only a slim chance that it may happen after. There is still no problem with setting those levels as targets. But to tie those targets in with the current 5 year plan is daft.

 

As someone else said earlier, as each year goes by the 5 year plan is re-written to take into account the previous years success and/or failures and the new 5th year. If our aim is to always progress forwards then one day top level football maybe achieved and I doubt any of us would say no to that.

[Turkish]

Wolves planned for and started expanding well before they were in any danger of relegation.

Actually I think we will follow the wolves model. Assess the first year, plan the next year and build in the 3rd year. If we get relegated at the end of the 3rd year then thats just unlucky.

 

Why do you think it is we aren't building now though? Cortese expected promotion back in September. He's done the studies and we all know how amazing our attendances were in 2004/05 when we were rubbish.

[stev2001]

Lol good luck with that - Designers of High Speed 2 will blow you if you can get them permission within 13 weeks. Good Lords. You are either and amazing troll or an overoppinionated no nothing. A football stadium is not a house. They have to consider the extra 10-15k people that will be flooding southampton which can't handle traffic for west Quay as it is, let alone when a large crusie ship is in. There is not enough parking, policing is an issue. Noise levels. How does it fit into their development plan for the city since developing St Mary's comes after the exisitng 20year plan.... My god, I mean, do you imagine that the Hindhead tunnel was submitted and approved within 13weeks? ARE YOU FOR REAL? High speed 2 - Hi guys, we are just gonna put 20 trains an our 50metres behind you back garden fence, you don't mind do you? You do? well that is unlucky... Its going to be approved in 13weeks and your house price just went down 90%!!! Enjoy!!!!!

 

Im not saying it can be done in 13 weeks but considering St marys is an existing building and was designed with expansion in mind (footings in place?) I'd find it hard to believe most of what you have said wasn't already considered by the council when it was first built?

Therefore it should be much quicker than a brand new development such as HS2 which is a 1000 times bigger development than SMS.