Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 You suggested we didn't have one because they weren't compulsory, rather than the fact we don't have a significant volume of fans wanting a ST who can't get one. I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Surely every time we sell out there is a need for more seats. FACT. Are you assuming NC needs to see a waiting list before we expand. Maybe he thinks differently to that. Funny that every club in Britain doesn't announce a major expansion plan after every time they sell out then isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) Funny that every club in Britain doesn't announce a major expansion plan after every time they sell out then isn't it? Wolves currently building and will go upto 36k (possibly 50k at some point), Chelsea looking at Battersea with a 60k stadium, Liverpool looking to move, Everton looking to move, Tottenham looking to move, Reading planning to expand to 38k, Cardiff looking to expand to 35k etc etc etc. Larger stadiums will be key with FFP coming into force, which is why so many clubs are looking into it and Cortese has been talking about it. As I said... I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051. Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Funny that every club in Britain doesn't announce a major expansion plan after every time they sell out then isn't it? If there is no chance of extra demand why has Cortese talked about expanding? Even building a a new ground completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051. Remind me. I'm on tapatalk and the posts aren't numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Rabbit Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 If there is no chance of extra demand why has Cortese talked about expanding? Even building a a new ground completely? I'm beginning to think it's a case of 'keeping up with the Jones's' If every club is expanding, moving out of their out dated grounds, adding extra tiers etc etc.... going from 10,000 to 25,000 ... or 40,000 to 55,000 ... it's just a case of keeping us in that 'zone' where we are a middle tier club with big crowd potential as and when it's required... that and we have the money to spend so may as well do it whilst it's there and whilst the construction companies are scratching around for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 I am a bit scared of commenting on this thread as the pro and con sides have firmly drawn their battle lines and, whatever is said, will not shift or deviate. Too much pride at stake to see an alternative point of view... However - the effect on the corporate take up should be considered seperately in my view. The drop off here from premiership to championship was very large and quite often over the last few years the corporate section has been largely empty (as have the boxes). I know of many companies that dropped this from their entertainment rota. It would be expected that this will now be an attractive ticket for corporate entertainment. I dont know the capacity of this "section" or indeed the relative percentage sales for the rest of the stadium for the last 5 years but it may be worth taking into account. Anyway - never mind sense or analysis. Back to dogma. Perfectly sensible post. Yes, it will be important to increase the Corporate section, as there will undoubtedly be the demand and that is where the real money is made. But it must be accepted that only local companies will be interested. No companies from Weymouth, the New Forest, Basingstoke need apply, regardless of how big they are, especially if they had not attended matches before. I am assured that it will not be of interest to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Remind me. I'm on tapatalk and the posts aren't numbered. If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600? That is an appalling question. In a stadium that size 19k would be maxing out so I would support expansion. The max out level at SMS would be something like 25k which I am pretty sure we haven't done yet. Terrible question but there's your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stev2001 Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Funny that every club in Britain doesn't announce a major expansion plan after every time they sell out then isn't it? Of course that not what I am saying but this thread is about a new 5 year plan. NC didn't suggest to Markus that he buy saints based on their current team or performance, he saw potential over the coming years and made a 5 year plan. The same goes with the 15m he's just spent on training facilities. Maybe, just maybe he wont wait until we have a desperate need to expand then have to wait a season or two to plan and build it. Maybe he'll do what he has been doing and make an investment for the future if he forecasts a need. Assumptions I know but he's hardly been following what other clubs have been doing so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 That is an appalling question. In a stadium that size 19k would be maxing out so I would support expansion. The max out level at SMS would be something like 25k which I am pretty sure we haven't done yet. Terrible question but there's your answer. Okay, what if there were 15k season ticket holders and no waiting list? Similar to what we have today, yet even in the Championship, a capacity of 25k at Stoneham Stadium would be too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Okay, what if there were 15k season ticket holders and no waiting list? Similar to what we have today, yet even in the Championship, a capacity of 25k at Stoneham Stadium would be too small. How about we deal in reality. I've done your hypothetical. Or lets just hypothetical each other to death. What if Cortese announces a flat £50 per ticket for man woman and child next season. We average 27k as a result. We sell out twice. Following season we average 27k again at 55 quid a ticket. Then do we need 40,000 seats? See. Pointless hypotheticals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stev2001 Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 How about we deal in reality. I've done your hypothetical. Or lets just hypothetical each other to death. What if Cortese announces a flat £50 per ticket for man woman and child next season. We average 27k as a result. We sell out twice. Following season we average 27k again at 55 quid a ticket. Then do we need 40,000 seats? See. Pointless hypotheticals. Very good point, none of us know how NC will play it. He could choose the above example but I'd find it hard to believe he'd keep mentioning expansion at dinners if he had no intention at all of even filling the current capacity with expensive tickets. I've said it before, I think he'll wait till mid or end of season to make a decision on this, but Im sure he is already putting things in place in readiness if it is viable. He won't wait till there is a need before he starts to plan for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 How about we deal in reality. I've done your hypothetical. Or lets just hypothetical each other to death. What if Cortese announces a flat £50 per ticket for man woman and child next season. We average 27k as a result. We sell out twice. Following season we average 27k again at 55 quid a ticket. Then do we need 40,000 seats? See. Pointless hypotheticals. We sell out twice next season? Is that a sensible hypothesis ?? FFS We sold out when we were at home to Exeter in League 1. Are you suggesting that Man U / Man City / Chelsea / Arsenal etc will only generate 2 sellouts next season - even at £50 a pop ?? What a strange world you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) How about we deal in reality. I've done your hypothetical. Or is that because you don't like the answer you would have to give as it goes against your waiting list theory? So instead you try to dismiss and discredit it. Please answer my revised question about Stoneham. This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"! Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Or is that because you don't like the answer you would have to give as it goes against your waiting list theory? So instead you try to dismiss and discredit it. Please answer my revised question about Stoneham. This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"! Not going answer mine then? I've answered your question about Stoneham. We don't play at Stoneham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 We sell out twice next season? Is that a sensible hypothesis ?? FFS We sold out when we were at home to Exeter in League 1. Are you suggesting that Man U / Man City / Chelsea / Arsenal etc will only generate 2 sellouts next season - even at £50 a pop ?? What a strange world you live in. Not really two of those games would likely be on Sky or ESPN. There is also a recession on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Not going answer mine then? I've answered your question about Stoneham. We don't play at Stoneham. Stoneham was a distinct possibility and nearly happened. Cortese charging £50 next season is unlikely to say the least. Plus... you claim you don't want to talk hypothetically yet... This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Not really two of those games would likely be on Sky or ESPN. There is also a recession on. £30 for a game vs Doncaster, Brighton, Palace, Reading, West Ham, Portsmouth, Coventry in the 2nd tier, with 2nd tier Saints players and in a recession didn't stop them being sellouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 £30 for a game vs Doncaster, Brighton, Palace, Reading, West Ham, Portsmouth, Coventry in the 2nd tier, with 2nd tier Saints players and in a recession didn't stop them being sellouts. Since when was thirty quid fifty quid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Stoneham was a distinct possibility and nearly happened. Cortese charging £50 next season is unlikely to say the least. More likely than us playing at stoneham which never happened and never did happen. And its a thread called Five Year Plan not "imagine the last twelve years as if we were playing at Stoneham". Any chance you're going to answer my hypothetical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Not really two of those games would likely be on Sky or ESPN. There is also a recession on. We got 28k to see Man U reserves in the Cup 2 years ago. It cost many people £57 for that game and the match was on terrestial TV. A sellout for the match v Man U will be a formaity - as will the Chelsea / Citeh / Liverpool / Arsenal matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Since when was thirty quid fifty quid? Since when was a 2nd tier Saints squad vs a 2nd tier opposition the same as watching a team of Premier League Saints players vs some of the biggest teams in world football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Since when was a 2nd tier Saints squad vs a 2nd tier opposition the same as watching a team of Premier League Saints players vs some of the biggest teams in world football? Since when was thirty quid fifty quid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djharvey Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Just a thought, but how big was the waiting list for season tickets when we were at The Dell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) Since when was thirty quid fifty quid? My question renders yours pointless. Numerous sellout 30k+ crowds have been at 2nd tier level (and even a couple whilst a 3rd tier club). These games are far less attractive than a game in the world's highest profile league, against some of the world's best clubs/players and with a Saints team of its own Premier League stars/internationals. It is valued at £30 because of the level of the game, with that £30 price it saw sellout crowds in the 2nd tier of 30k+. If Saints were in the Conference and selling tickets for £10 and had a crowd of 15,000 it would be extremely impressive and indicate a large fanbase. The price is relative to the level of competition. People are far more willing to pay more for a game vs Chelsea, Liverpool, Newcastle, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs etc than they would be against Exeter, Coventry or Doncaster. If you can't see that there really is no hope for you in this debate. In any case, do you honestly think tickets at St Mary's next season will cost £50? Really? Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djharvey Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 More chance of us making top 4 than tickets costing £50 next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 In any case, do you honestly think tickets at St Mary's next season will cost £50? Really? No idea. You were blathering on about us playing at Stoneham which we never have and never will. Pointless, see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Since when was a 2nd tier Saints squad vs a 2nd tier opposition the same as watching a team of Premier League Saints players vs some of the biggest teams in world football? Since when was a man united match day squad containing Scholes, Rooney, Smalling, Nani, Giggs, Berbatov, Anderson, O'Shea, Brown and so on a reserve squad? All international players and have played champions league football and made a career in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) Since when was a man united match day squad containing Scholes, Rooney, Smalling, Nani, Giggs, Berbatov, Anderson, O'Shea, Brown and so on a reserve squad? All international players and have played champions league football and made a career in the premier league. Their starting lineup was far from their strongest possible at the time and most Saints fans would have realised it was going to be the case before the game. Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 No idea. You were blathering on about us playing at Stoneham which we never have and never will. Pointless, see? Not pointless at all, I just used it to highlight the flaws in your season ticket waiting list argument. Which by your lack of answer to the revised question I think you realise it is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Not pointless at all, I just used it to highlight the flaws in your season ticket waiting list argument. Which by your lack of answer to the revised question I think you realise it is flawed. I answered it you tedious p r ick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 I answered it you tedious p r ick. Petty insults, good debating technique. You didn't answer it, you dismissed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Ah CBF again reverting to insults Such intelleuctual debating technique. He has a point of view as does MLG. Anyone want to bet a fiver on who eventually is shown to have won this golden thread in 5 years time? Must be able to get a price somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Petty insults, good debating technique. You didn't answer it, you dismissed it. I answered it. You made up another pointless one. The answer to that one is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) I answered it. You made up another pointless one. The answer to that one is no. Thankyou, that now goes to show the flaws in your viewpoint. So you are saying "no" to increasing to 32,600 if the team were at a 25,000 capacity Stoneham stadium in the Championship and averaging 24,500 with 15,000 season ticket holders. Why "no"? Oh, and as dubai_phil and I have pointed out, petty insults isn't generally the debating style of someone with a strong case. Normally that of someone on weak foundations. Every time we have debated this subject (which is alot) and you get backed into a corner and struggle to answer difficult questions you revert to your standard style of ignoring/deflecting questions and making petty personal insults. Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 (edited) Thankyou, that now goes to show the flaws in your viewpoint. So you are saying "no" to increasing to 32,600, even if the team were at a 25k capacity Stoneham stadium in the Championship and averaging 24,500 with 15,000 season ticket holders. Why "no"? Oh, and as dubai_phil and I have pointed out, petty insults isn't generally the debating style of someone with a strong case. Normally that of someone on weak foundations. Every time we have debated this subject (which is alot) and you get backed into a corner and struggle to answer difficult questions you revert to your standard style of ignoring/reflecting questions and petty personal insults. I didn't even remember the question. Making up a stadium. Making up an attendance. Making up a season ticket sale. Making up a non waiting list. Making up a false choice. This is not evidence of a strong case of anything. So you've convinced me. I change my answer to definitely yes. Definitely. Edited 12 May, 2012 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Their starting lineup was far from their strongest possible at the time and most Saints fans would have realised it was going to be the case before the game. Still a team that would have beaten most of the PL. still team that most of you little group Would be ejaculating all over Wessex if we signed one of them. Still a team that people were wetting themselves over seeing. Still a team better than we've had since 1985. Anyway let's go back to pretending what would have happened if we'd moved to Stoneham had a smaller capacity and fewer season ticket holders and crowds. That gives your credibility so Much more substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Making up a stadium. Making up an attendance. Making up a season ticket sale. Making up a non waiting list. Making up a false choice. - The stadium is not "made up", the club had planned for a 25,000 stadium at Stoneham. I didn't make up the stadium, the club ran with the plans for a period, St Mary's has shown they underestimated the fanbase at first and even with St Mary's, still have underestimated what is needed (as you have aswell). - The attendance is "made up" out of thin air, Saints have shown this season they are capable of averaging over 26k whilst in the 2nd tier. - The season ticket sales are not "made up" out of thin air, they are based on this season's season ticket numbers. - The lack of a waiting list is not "made up" out of thin air, this season the club doesn't have a waiting list. This is not evidence of a strong case of anything. It has more weight than any case you have put forward so far. Plus when backed into a corner, I don't react with petty insults like you continue to do. See my final paragraph in previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stev2001 Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Saw Bart in adsa about an hour ago, I should have asked him if he knew anything about any stadium extension plans. Might have cleared this up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Just a thought, but how big was the waiting list for season tickets when we were at The Dell? Don't know but I was on one for 5 years! Fact!! Disappointingly when we moved, there nothing from the club to say I could now get one :-( Different times and management I know, but in general the marketing, PR etc. around football is extremely poor compared to other sports, and particularly to concerts etc. We could do so so much better. Just one example - I have both at the Dell and St. Marys managed to organise a few corporate events - not a full season but odd events throughout the season, and not once have I had any communication from the club asking me if the day was fine; would I like to attend another one; here's a slight incentive for booking more events or whole season etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 - The stadium is not "made up", the club had planned for a 25,000 stadium at Stoneham. I didn't make up the stadium, the club ran with the plans for a period, St Mary's has shown they underestimated the fanbase at first and even with St Mary's, still have underestimated what is needed (as you have aswell). - The attendance is "made up" out of thin air, Saints have shown this season they are capable of averaging over 26k whilst in the 2nd tier. - The season ticket sales are not "made up" out of thin air, they are based on this season's season ticket numbers. - The lack of a waiting list is not "made up" out of thin air, this season the club doesn't have a waiting list. It has more weight than any case you have put forward so far. Plus when backed into a corner, I don't react with petty insults like you continue to do. See my final paragraph in previous post. There is no football ground for Southampton Football club at Stoneham. It's made up. It's not there. It's made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 My head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 There is no football ground for Southampton Football club at Stoneham. It's made up. It's not there. It's made up. Not made up by me though. Made up by people running our football club, doing what we are doing at the moment... i.e. trying to predict how big to make Southampton's stadium. Do you agree that with their plans of a 25,000 stadium they got it wrong? The were wrong to such an extent that Saints in the Championship average higher than that capacity, let alone Saints in the Premier League. Could it not also be conceivable that they also got it wrong with a 32,600 seater stadium? They were wrong once, why not twice? Averaging over 30k every season in the Premier League including the relegation year to me suggests they got it wrong for the second time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Not made up by me though. Made up by people running our football club, doing what we are doing at the moment... i.e. trying to predict how big to make Southampton's stadium. Do you agree that with their plans of a 25,000 stadium they got it wrong? The were wrong to such an extent that Saints in the Championship average higher than that capacity, let alone Saints in the Premier League. Could it not also be conceivable that they also got it wrong with a 32,600 seater stadium? They were wrong once, why not twice? Averaging over 30k every season in the Premier League including the relegation year to me suggests they got it wrong for the second time! What are you talking about? Saints didn't build Stoneham. Don't worry about it. I reckon they never will now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 What are you talking about? Saints didn't build Stoneham. Don't worry about it. I reckon they never will now. Wow, this is hard work! Note how I'm not resorting to petty insults like you do though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Wow, this is hard work! Note how I'm not resorting to petty insults like you do though. Freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 In regards to this whole debate re the stadium. I'm not really going to be wrong unless I put a timeframe on it. CB Fry, Turkish, Sour Mash etc will be wrong as soon as the club announces an expansion or relocation and if the fanbase fills it well. Those against my viewpoint, should the day come and the club make such an announcement what do you think you will say? I'm guessing you will wait for the first home game and subsequent ones, ready to pounce as soon as there is a poor turnout. Am I right? Given Cortese has talked about expansion plans and his high ambitions on numerous occasions both in the press and according to those that claim to have gone to fans dinners, I think it is relatively safe to say Cortese isn't planning to sit back and let other clubs expand beyond Saints. In the same way as a League One club Cortese announced plans for a £15 million Champions League quality training ground and category 1 academy. These aren't the actions of a chairman content with Saints doing as they did under Rupert Lowe and bore along in Premier League mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2012 Share Posted 12 May, 2012 Freak. This isn't helping your case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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