New 5 year Plan

[Turkish]

You can't argue with that sort of retarded logic.

 

So basically, every time we sold out at SMS there wasn't a single person who phoned up and was told, sorry we are sold out!

 

Well as I've said on a number of occasions my wife worked in the ticket office between 2001-05 and I can't tell you for a fact literally tens of people did ring up only to be told "sorry" and unlike Spurs who have a waiting list and Newcastle who have a waiting list and Chelsea who have a waiting list and Arsenal who had a waiting list at Highbury Saints fans are the only ones in the country who don't bother trying to get tickets if thy think they can't get one. You can't argue against that sort of reatarded logic.

[Matthew Le God]

How did that strategy work out for Wolves?

 

Not really comparable...

 

- Steve Morgan worth £350 million

- Estate of Markus Liebherr worth £3 billion

 

- Saints average attendance next season likely to be circa 31,000

- Wolves average attendance this season in Premier League was 25,672

 

- Saints academy is far more successful than Wolves academy

[Turkish]

Do you expect tamesaint to know every single person who couldnt get a ticket for those games?

 

For certain games, at certain times we are well capable of filling a stadium with a larger capacity than St Mary's.

 

You can deny it all you want but it's the truth. But carry on trying to belittle everyone who dares suggest that we might be capable of growing as a club as you seem to enjoy it so much.

 

 

We'll I dont know anyone who couldn't get a ticket for Pompey or Coventry. Nor do i know Anyone who never got one when they wanted one in the premier league. My sister for example got one easily for Coventy. He want down on the morning they went on sale and queued and god forbid she got a ticket! Wel I never!! So between us we know of about 3 people that couldn't get tickets and one that rarely goes and despite all the odds and millions of others trying managed to get one, how odd.

[Matthew Le God]

Well as I've said on a number of occasions my wife worked in the ticket office between 2001-05 and I can't tell you for a fact literally tens of people did ring up only to be told "sorry" and unlike Spurs who have a waiting list and Newcastle who have a waiting list and Chelsea who have a waiting list and Arsenal who had a waiting list at Highbury Saints fans are the only ones in the country who don't bother trying to get tickets if thy think they can't get one. You can't argue against that sort of reatarded logic.

 

You are just digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

More Saints fans saw Saints vs Bolton (a sellout), than they did Saints vs Man Utd (a sellout) due to Bolton bringing fewer fans so more availble for home fans. Are you telling us you think fewer people were interested in the Man Utd game than the Bolton game? And had St Mary's been bigger more people wouldn't turn up?

 

Come Turkish, actually think for a minute about what you are saying! Saints were even able to sell out or get close to selling out whilst in League One and the Championship. When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

[This Charming Man]

Not really comparable...

 

- Steve Morgan worth £350 million

- Estate of Markus Liebherr worth £3 billion

 

- Saints average attendance next season likely to be circa 31,000

- Wolves average attendance this season in Premier League was 25,672

 

- Saints academy is far more successful than Wolves academy

 

NC has stated on numerous occasions that we will be run sensibly. There won't be any Man City type spending. How much of that £3bn has been placed at our disposal?

 

Their attendances were slightly lower thanks to the ground upgrades that were going on, so the same would apply to us if we were to expand.

 

What new faces from our academy are going to be pushing for a starting place next season?

[This Charming Man]

You are just digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

More Saints fans saw Saints vs Bolton (a sellout), than they did Saints vs Man Utd (a sellout) due to Bolton bringing fewer fans so more availble for home fans. Are you telling us you think fewer people were interested in the Man Utd than the Bolton game.

 

Come Turkish, actually think for a minute about what you are saying! Saints were even able to sell out or get close to selling out whilst in League One and the Championship. When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

 

But in more recent times - when we last played Man Utd, we didn't sell out.

[Turkish]

So you advocate a plan then?

Set criteria to judge demand against capacity at which point you would then activate a plan to (in this case) expand the stadium.

 

By your eckoning that would take two years.

 

So what type of expansion would that then be? Where does the plan look after that. Would you build 14k in one go would that be the limit then? Forever? What would happen if the roadmap & demand continued to grow over time, it would be as daft a decision to spend out on 14k when it was not enough as it would be if it was too much?

Or would you look for a plan that (for example) could give you 6k quickly and the option to add 20k in stages over time?

 

Well that would obviously depend on demand and waiting lists and just how many of the 5k Man U fans in Epsom are declaring their interest in coming to St Mary's regularly. But as I've said previously I don't think it's unrealistic for us to fill 38-40k regusly. Although unlike the self titled enlightened posters most of us wih supposedly retarded logic want us to actually see there is the demand there first before throwing on 8000 seats and banking on thousands of fans from Weymouth and man U fans from Epsom filling the seats.

[Matthew Le God]

NC has stated on numerous occasions that we will be run sensibly. There won't be any Man City type spending. How much of that £3bn has been placed at our disposal?

 

Infrastructure spending is exempt from FFP rules. Spending £15 million on a training ground from a £350m fortune has far more impact than it would if coming out of a £3 billion fortune. As would any stadium upgrade or relocation.

 

Their attendances were slightly lower thanks to the ground upgrades that were going on.

 

It is still 6,000 lower. Saints aren't expanding for next season.

 

What new faces from our academy are going to be pushing for a starting place next season?

 

Why does it have to be next season? My point was long term Saints are in a stronger position as their academy has been far more successful.

[Dig Dig]

We'll I dont know anyone who couldn't get a ticket for Pompey or Coventry. Nor do i know Anyone who never got one when they wanted one in the premier league. My sister for example got one easily for Coventy. He want down on the morning they went on sale and queued and god forbid she got a ticket! Wel I never!! So between us we know of about 3 people that couldn't get tickets and one that rarely goes and despite all the odds and millions of others trying managed to get one, how odd.

 

I've never said millions nor have anyone else from what I can see.

 

Fair play to your sister. Glad he/she got a ticket for their efforts. But your logic is still flawed. If it didn't require hours of queuing, links to other games etc then there would have been a couple of 1000 more who would have gone even if they weren't prepared/capable of putting the effort it.

 

If you genuinely believe that for every game we sell out there are only a few 10's of people who have missed out then that staggeringly stupid.

 

And before you start, no I dont think we need a 55000 super stadium so that we can exploit our Barcaesq football in the CL.

 

Just of the opinion that we have the potential to expand a bit more beyond our current capacity. But if your wife worked in the ticket office 7 years ago and says otherwise then I guess that settles it right?

[Matthew Le God]

But in more recent times - when we last played Man Utd, we didn't sell out.

 

Again, not a like for like comparison.

 

- That game was in the FA Cup.

- Saints fans beforehand knew Man Utd would likely put out a B team (and they did), and Saints would rest players and not have a full strength side (which also happened)

- The Saints team was a team in League One, any future games will be with Saints with a Premier League squad and Premier League players to cheer on, not 3rd tier players.

- It was live on terrestrial TV

- In order to get a ticket if not a season ticket holder you had to buy it in conjunction with another low profile League One game, so for a non season ticket holding adult it would cost £57!

- Despite all of that it was still the biggest attendance in England on that day (despite Saints being a 3rd tier team), it even beat the attendance for the Everton vs Chelsea game at Goodison Park on the same day.

 

Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance.

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[B Rabbit]

When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

 

Paying £25 to go and watch Saints for 90 minutes just about stretches it for some people.... when single game tickets start costing £45 to watch us play Man Utd, Man City, Arse, Chelsea etc...I bet demand disappears for a lot of genuine attendees simply being priced out... the flip side being, richer fair weather fans will obviously take up the demand and we'll probably still sell out.

 

I've had a season ticket 12 years and been going regularly since the late 80's...quite frankly, if the season ticket prices are horrendous together with a balls or non existant installment plan... I might not be able to go and if i'm thinking that way..i bet there's bloody loads of people who are too, best team in the world visiting or not.

 

 

 

[dubai_phil]

Well that would obviously depend on demand and waiting lists and just how many of the 5k Man U fans in Epsom are declaring their interest in coming to St Mary's regularly. But as I've said previously I don't think it's unrealistic for us to fill 38-40k regusly. Although unlike the self titled enlightened posters most of us wih supposedly retarded logic want us to actually see there is the demand there first before throwing on 8000 seats and banking on thousands of fans from Weymouth and man U fans from Epsom filling the seats.

 

ok so back to the point of the argument.

 

Next year is simply about staying up and laying foundations for "consolidation" think that is a no brainer for everyone.

 

There is nothing new in that - it is what Lowe did - live from one Dividend & Shareholders meeting to the next.

 

Now from ALL the public statements and decisions taken to date, it is clear there is no short term view being taken when it comes to major decisions.

 

So The 5 Year Plan can quite easily have a mission statement that says.

 

We will aim to achieve a level which would bring CL football to Southampton. It is a MISSION STATEMENT, it makes sure you have a context in which to analyse a business decision. It is NOT saying we will be in the CL in 5 years, only 2 posters have said that, it got blurred by people who cannot read

 

The FIRST 5 years would have targets -

Are we going to stay up?

Do we need to keep some budget for January just in case?

How much to replace NA & the team to keep us up IF they really cannot hack it?

How many new shorts training kits bags boots balls etc will we sell now we have gone up?

 

Then as discussed how fast do we sell out/ How many could we have sold last week? what is the average away following of Sunderland/Villa as well as the big clubs, what is the average number of away fan tickets we COULD sell, what was the average demand each week for Away fan tickets

 

And of course the big one - do we have a waiting list?

 

Those questions can be asked weekly, monthly or at the end of the season, the plan would then say oh we need a bigger stadium (demand shows it is there or it is NOT there.

 

THEN the question is how many seats do we need now?

What would we have to do to make that trend continue?

Again revisit the OTHER question, do we have the resources and momentum and the crowd to keep progressing?

 

It is at THIS TIME that the BIG decisions need to be made - 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. IF we are krap then of course it is not discussed

[Turkish]

Again, not a like for like comparison.

 

- That game was in the FA Cup.

- Saints fans beforehand knew Man Utd would likely put out a B team (and they did), and Saints would rest players and not have a full strength side (which also happened)

- The Saints team was a team in League One, any future games will be with Saints with a Premier League squad and Premier League players to cheer on, not 3rd tier players.

- It was live on terrestrial TV

- In order to get a ticket if not a season ticket holder you had to buy it in conjunction with another low profile League One game, so for a non season ticket holding adult it would cost £57!

- Despite all of that it was still the biggest attendance in England on that day (despite Saints being a 3rd tier team), it even beat the attendance for the Everton vs Chelsea game at Goodison Park on the same day.

 

Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance.

 

How come league one Leeds managed to sell out for their home FA cup against Spurs in 2010 then?

[Turkish]

You are just digging a bigger hole for yourself.

 

More Saints fans saw Saints vs Bolton (a sellout), than they did Saints vs Man Utd (a sellout) due to Bolton bringing fewer fans so more availble for home fans. Are you telling us you think fewer people were interested in the Man Utd game than the Bolton game? And had St Mary's been bigger more people wouldn't turn up?

 

Come Turkish, actually think for a minute about what you are saying! Saints were even able to sell out or get close to selling out whilst in League One and the Championship. When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

 

But we only sold 26k for Aston Villa in 2001 we only had 25k for Fulham in 2002 for every boner you get about Bolton in 2005 you do there is also an erectile distinction you need to remember you must have got for these games you need to consider. It's easy to bangon about what crowds we might get for Man United but do you really think Cortese is going to expand St Mary's of we only get more than 32k on one or two occasions a season?

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Turkish

[krissyboy31]

ok so back to the point of the argument.

 

Next year is simply about staying up and laying foundations for "consolidation" think that is a no brainer for everyone.

 

There is nothing new in that - it is what Lowe did - live from one Dividend & Shareholders meeting to the next.

 

Now from ALL the public statements and decisions taken to date, it is clear there is no short term view being taken when it comes to major decisions.

 

So The 5 Year Plan can quite easily have a mission statement that says.

 

We will aim to achieve a level which would bring CL football to Southampton. It is a MISSION STATEMENT, it makes sure you have a context in which to analyse a business decision. It is NOT saying we will be in the CL in 5 years, only 2 posters have said that, it got blurred by people who cannot read

 

The FIRST 5 years would have targets -

Are we going to stay up?

Do we need to keep some budget for January just in case?

How much to replace NA & the team to keep us up IF they really cannot hack it?

How many new shorts training kits bags boots balls etc will we sell now we have gone up?

 

Then as discussed how fast do we sell out/ How many could we have sold last week? what is the average away following of Sunderland/Villa as well as the big clubs, what is the average number of away fan tickets we COULD sell, what was the average demand each week for Away fan tickets

 

And of course the big one - do we have a waiting list?

 

Those questions can be asked weekly, monthly or at the end of the season, the plan would then say oh we need a bigger stadium (demand shows it is there or it is NOT there.

 

THEN the question is how many seats do we need now?

What would we have to do to make that trend continue?

Again revisit the OTHER question, do we have the resources and momentum and the crowd to keep progressing?

 

It is at THIS TIME that the BIG decisions need to be made - 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. IF we are krap then of course it is not discussed

Completely agree. And of course it won't be anyone on here (thank god) making these decisions it will be Cortese and he will be making them based on how he and the Liebherr family see the business growing.

[Turkish]

I've never said millions nor have anyone else from what I can see.

 

Fair play to your sister. Glad he/she got a ticket for their efforts. But your logic is still flawed. If it didn't require hours of queuing, links to other games etc then there would have been a couple of 1000 more who would have gone even if they weren't prepared/capable of putting the effort it.

 

If you genuinely believe that for every game we sell out there are only a few 10's of people who have missed out then that staggeringly stupid.

 

And before you start, no I dont think we need a 55000 super stadium so that we can exploit our Barcaesq football in the CL.

 

Just of the opinion that we have the potential to expand a bit more beyond our current capacity. But if your wife worked in the ticket office 7 years ago and says otherwise then I guess that settles it right?

 

Well we keep being told by MLG we need to expand because we sold out once against Bolton in 2005. I've stated my opinion on other posts about when we should consider expanding and I'm not going to repeat myself except to say that it shouldn't be done on the off chance that a 1000 or so more might bother trying to get a ticket if they can be arsed too.

[CB Fry]

ok so back to the point of the argument.

 

Next year is simply about staying up and laying foundations for "consolidation" think that is a no brainer for everyone.

 

There is nothing new in that - it is what Lowe did - live from one Dividend & Shareholders meeting to the next.

 

Now from ALL the public statements and decisions taken to date, it is clear there is no short term view being taken when it comes to major decisions.

 

So The 5 Year Plan can quite easily have a mission statement that says.

 

We will aim to achieve a level which would bring CL football to Southampton. It is a MISSION STATEMENT, it makes sure you have a context in which to analyse a business decision. It is NOT saying we will be in the CL in 5 years, only 2 posters have said that, it got blurred by people who cannot read

 

The FIRST 5 years would have targets -

Are we going to stay up?

Do we need to keep some budget for January just in case?

How much to replace NA & the team to keep us up IF they really cannot hack it?

How many new shorts training kits bags boots balls etc will we sell now we have gone up?

 

Then as discussed how fast do we sell out/ How many could we have sold last week? what is the average away following of Sunderland/Villa as well as the big clubs, what is the average number of away fan tickets we COULD sell, what was the average demand each week for Away fan tickets

 

And of course the big one - do we have a waiting list?

 

Those questions can be asked weekly, monthly or at the end of the season, the plan would then say oh we need a bigger stadium (demand shows it is there or it is NOT there.

 

THEN the question is how many seats do we need now?

What would we have to do to make that trend continue?

Again revisit the OTHER question, do we have the resources and momentum and the crowd to keep progressing?

 

It is at THIS TIME that the BIG decisions need to be made - 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. IF we are krap then of course it is not discussed

 

This is fair enough. Not the same as we need more seats now because we sold out against Bolton eight years ago.

 

I also worry that having CL on a mission statement leads to over investment in players that the club on its own terms cannot afford.

 

I wouldn't have Champions League on any mission statement. I'd say as high as possible in the Premier League every season. That gives you scope to do an Everton (maybe Newcastle) but just avoids doing a Leeds or a Pompey. It's an important mindset shift for me. We mustn't chase and chase. That way leads only to panic buying Joey Barton.

 

Fulham, Stoke and Boro have had good runs in Europe on lower attendances than us, so lets remind those ungrateful enough to belittle our fantastic stadium that it is more than fit for purpose right now.

[Turkish]

ok so back to the point of the argument.

 

Next year is simply about staying up and laying foundations for "consolidation" think that is a no brainer for everyone.

 

There is nothing new in that - it is what Lowe did - live from one Dividend & Shareholders meeting to the next.

 

Now from ALL the public statements and decisions taken to date, it is clear there is no short term view being taken when it comes to major decisions.

 

So The 5 Year Plan can quite easily have a mission statement that says.

 

We will aim to achieve a level which would bring CL football to Southampton. It is a MISSION STATEMENT, it makes sure you have a context in which to analyse a business decision. It is NOT saying we will be in the CL in 5 years, only 2 posters have said that, it got blurred by people who cannot read

 

The FIRST 5 years would have targets -

Are we going to stay up?

Do we need to keep some budget for January just in case?

How much to replace NA & the team to keep us up IF they really cannot hack it?

How many new shorts training kits bags boots balls etc will we sell now we have gone up?

 

Then as discussed how fast do we sell out/ How many could we have sold last week? what is the average away following of Sunderland/Villa as well as the big clubs, what is the average number of away fan tickets we COULD sell, what was the average demand each week for Away fan tickets

 

And of course the big one - do we have a waiting list?

 

Those questions can be asked weekly, monthly or at the end of the season, the plan would then say oh we need a bigger stadium (demand shows it is there or it is NOT there.

 

THEN the question is how many seats do we need now?

What would we have to do to make that trend continue?

Again revisit the OTHER question, do we have the resources and momentum and the crowd to keep progressing?

 

It is at THIS TIME that the BIG decisions need to be made - 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. IF we are krap then of course it is not discussed

 

Well done for writing a sensible post at last and not mentioning what Nokia did 10 years ago and look at RIM now.

[Matthew Le God]

How come league one Leeds managed to sell out for their home FA cup against Spurs in 2010 then?

 

1) I said "Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance". Can ALL of those factors be applied to your example?

2) Have I compared Saints to Leeds? No, so why have you?

[B Rabbit]

1) I said "Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance". Can ALL of those factors be applied to your example?

2) Have I compared Saints to Leeds? No, so why have you?

Just a hunch but i'm guessing he was comparing a League 1 club playing a premiership team in the FA cup and the attendance it created...rather than comparing 2 clubs directly. Attendance being the subject here.....

[Turkish]

1) I said "Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance". Can ALL of those factors be applied to your example?

2) Have I compared Saints to Leeds? No, so why have you?

 

No that right we are bigger than Leeds as we need a bigger stadium than them and are going for the champions league, they aren't. In addition to this we had a bigger game than them which was on a weekend and we all know how fans love to claim midweek games are less attractive. yet they managed to get over 10000 more fans than we did.

 

It's like for like. FA Cup game. Live on telly, league one v premier league all the things you apply. they sell out we get no where near doing so and also have the misfortune to have a catchment area nowhere near what ours is. How can this be?

[Matthew Le God]

Just a hunch but i'm guessing he was comparing a League 1 club playing a premiership team in the FA cup and the attendance it created...rather than comparing 2 clubs directly. Attendance being the subject here.....

 

Well that is pointless, as I listed a number of factors that should be used as a whole to explain Saints attendance. Nor did I bring up a comparison with Leeds.

[Matthew Le God]

No that right we are bigger than Leeds as we need a bigger stadium than them and are going for the champions league, they aren't. In addition to this we had a bigger game than them which was on a weekend and we all know how fans love to claim midweek games are less attractive. yet they managed to get over 10000 more fans than we did.

 

It's like for like. FA Cup game. Live on telly, league one v premier league all the things you apply. they sell out we get no where near doing so and also have the misfortune to have a catchment area nowhere near what ours is. How can this be?

 

It isn't like for like as that doesn't match all the points I raised. I said don't isolate them, look at the as a collective. Nor did I ever claim Saints were bigger than Leeds.

[Turkish]

Well that is pointless, as I listed a number of factors that should be used as a whole to explain Saints attendance. Nor did I bring up a comparison with Leeds.

 

But you love comparing our attendances to Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and so on when it suits.

 

League one v premier league. FA Cup game. Live on terrestrial telly. One club gets a sell out 38,000 the other gets 27,000 despite having a bigger game. Explain how this canbe possible.

[Turkish]

It isn't like for like as that doesn't match all the points I raised. I said don't isolate them, look at the as a collective. Nor did I ever claim Saints were bigger than Leeds.

 

It absolutely is like for like. It absolutely is.

 

How are we not bigger than Leeds, using your logic of course. We've got more fans than Everon according to you, how are we bigger than them yet smaller than Leeds?

[aintforever]

it will be Cortese and he will be making them based on how he and the Liebherr family see the business growing.

 

I can't grow apparently, according to some on here we have 32,500 fans, thats it. History says so, nothing can change.

[Turkish]

I can't grow apparently, according to some on here we have 32,500 fans, thats it. History says so, nothing can change.

 

Who said that?

[Matthew Le God]

But you love comparing our attendances to Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday.

 

Yes, but not Leeds. So why did you bring them up when I didn't?

 

League one v premier league.

 

Correct, though actually read what I said about it. Tottenham and Leeds both put out strong teams. Man Utd put out a reserve side and even League One Saints rested players.

 

FA Cup game.

 

Correct, but read my points in full.

 

Live on terrestrial telly.

 

It was on ITV 4, the Saints game was on ITV 1. Not like for like.

 

One club gets a sell out 38,000 the other gets 27,000.

 

Wrong on the attendances.

 

You also haven't responded to every point I made. Cherry picking them. One thing you missed out (amongst others) the Man Utd game was linked to another low profile 3rd tier game so would cost a Saints fan ALOT more than a Leeds fan.

 

Saints vs Man Utd had a bigger attendance than Everton vs Chelsea on the same day. Thoughts on that?

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

It absolutely is like for like. It absolutely is.

 

Which League One game did Leeds link the Tottenham game with?

 

Does ITV 4 have the same exposure as ITV 1?

 

and so on... (I would ask more questions but I doubt the first two will be answered)

[CB Fry]

It isn't like for like as that doesn't match all the points I raised. I said don't isolate them, look at the as a collective. Nor did I ever claim Saints were bigger than Leeds.

 

 

Maybe Everton in the Premier League in 2012 is not the same as Saints in 2005.....?

 

You pick apart everyone elses but sling together your own random like-for-likes like a kleptomaniac in Harrods at midnight.

[Matthew Le God]

Maybe Everton in the Premier League in 2012 is not the same as Saints in 2005.....?

 

Are you going to expand on that with any reasons why it might not be?

 

At a guess you will say the recession, but that didn't stop Saints averaging over 26,483 in the 2nd tier this season, in a league with lower away followings.

[CB Fry]

I can't grow apparently, according to some on here we have 32,500 fans, thats it. History says so, nothing can change.

 

 

 

I'd love you to find anyone saying anything remotely like this on this forum. Fu cking drama queens.

[Matthew Le God]

I'd love you to find anyone saying anything remotely like this on this forum.

 

Turkish pretty much says that when he claims that when Saints sold out everyone that wanted a ticket could get one.

[Turkish]

Which League One game did Leeds link the Tottenham game with?

 

Does ITV 4 have the same exposure as ITV 1?

 

and so on... (I would ask more questions but I doubt the first two will be answered)

 

What has ITV4 got to do with it. it was on ITV1.

http://www.itv.com/sport/football/news/facup/manualstories/leedsvtottenhamandcrystalpalacevwolvesfacupreplaysliveonitv2346/default.html

 

As someone that lives 260 miles away from Leeds I have no idea but given Leeds fans general disillusionment with Bates and ticket prices we can be assured tickets weren't given away,

 

So you are saying we can only compare attendances when it suits you, yes? 10000 more league one fans for a league one club against a premier league club in match live on telly obviously doesnt.

[Matthew Le God]

As someone that lives 260 miles away from Leeds I have no idea but given Leeds fans general disillusionment with Bates and ticket prices we can be assured tickets weren't given away,

 

So you are saying we can only compare attendances when it suits you, yes? 10000 more league one fans for a league one club against a premier league club in match live on telly obviously doesnt.

 

1) It wasn't 10,000 more fans.

2) You still haven't told me which low profile League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game with?

3) Why comparison with Leeds? I have at no point claimed Saints are bigger than Leeds.

4) You haven't explained why Everton vs Chelsea on a satellite channel and not linked to a low profile League One game had a lower attendance than Saints vs Man Utd on terrestrial TV on the same day?

[Turkish]

1) It wasn't 10,000 more fans.

2) You still haven't told me which game Leeds linked the Tottenham game with.

3) Why comparison with Leeds? I have at no point claimed Saints are bigger than Leeds.

4) You haven't explained why Everton vs Chelsea on ESPN had a lower attendance than Saints vs Man Utd on terrestrial TV on the same day?

 

 

Apologies saints attendance was 28,792, only 3,500 short of capacity. Leeds v Tottenham was 37,704 so only just shy on 9,000 more. FA Cup. League one v premier league. Live On terrestrial telly.

 

And you still haven't told me how we are bigger than Everton but smaller than Leeds. How we can compare our attendances wi Sheffield United, Wolves, Forest, Chelsea in 1984 And Sunderland in 1978 but not Leeds when we were both playing premier lewgue sides when in league one in an FA cup live on telly.

 

Funnily enough the twinning problem which meant the 12,000 fans which would have otherwise attended the Man U game wasnt an issue when we played Coventry, Reading and Pompey in the League this season.

 

So we can compare Saints v Man U to two premier league clubs playing each other but cant to the more like for like comparision of a club in our divison playing a premier league club when both games are live on terrestrial TV. Okay then.

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

Turkish pretty much says that when he claims that when Saints sold out everyone that wanted a ticket could get one.

 

No he doesn't. For someone so teethgrindingly pedantic you make hell of a lot of completely baseless assumptions. Kind of pis s es on your already pathetic credibility.

[Matthew Le God]

Funnily enough the twinning problem which meant the 12,000 fans which would have otherwise attended the Man U game wasnt an issue when we played Coventry in the League this season.

 

What point are you trying to make here with such a statement? Saints have shown for a Premier League side they can sell out St Mary's vs a top side or bottom side regardless of if Saints are in mid table or in the relegation zone. You are the one bringing up cup matches whilst in the 3rd tier, expansion decisions won't be made on such games.

 

Plus...

 

1) Still no mention from you of which League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game. So it is not "absolutely like for like" as you claimed.

2) No comment on my point that Man Utd put out a reserve side and Saints rested a few players. Compared with Leeds and Tottenham both putting out strong sides.

[Matthew Le God]

You make hell of a lot of completely baseless assumptions.

 

Can the same not be said of those claiming Saints don't need to expand?

[Turkish]

What point are you trying to make here with such a statement? Saints have shown for a Premier League side they can sell out St Mary's vs a top side or bottom side regardless of if Saints are in mid table or in the relegation zone. You are the one bringing up cup matches whilst in the 3rd tier.

 

Plus...

 

1) Still no mention from you of which League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game. So it is not "absolutely like for like" as you claimed.

2) No comment on my point that Man Utd put out a reserve side and Saints rested a few players. Compared with Leeds and Tottenham both putting out strong sides.

 

The "twinning" wasn't a problem for games this or last season why is it suddenly an issue now it doesn't suit you?

 

This supposed Man U reserve team included Scholes, Smalling, Hernandez, Anderson, Fabio and Berbatov, Giggs, Rooney, Nani on the bench. Not quite reserves sunshine. Either way Man U are still a bigger draw the Spurs, how could I forget the cringeworthy status updates on Facebook from part time fans about how excited they were to get them in the FA Cup. Yet we got no where selling out.

 

Actually you were the one banging on about why we didn't sell out the FA cup game because it was league one v premier league on Telly and all that bollix, I simply asked why it want a problem for Leeds when they were in league one. And you still haven't answered how we can be bigger than Everton but not as big as Leeds.

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Bearsy]

Wouldn't it be cool if at the end of this thread either MLG or Turkish could turn round and be like know what bro, i've listened to ur arguments and you've won me round. I agree with you now!

 

Anything rather than see this thread again in 2020 when we either expand the stadium or fail to sell out a home match. How bout a poll and we can all vote to say who's "won"?

[Bearsy]

Here's my poll!

 

a) The MLG positions: We should be making 5 year plans to be bigger than Evertons

b) The Turkish positions: There is no evidences we can be bigger than Evertons

 

Have I got the positions right? Some of the arguments is confusings!

[CB Fry]

Can the same not be said of those claiming Saints don't need to expand?

 

 

 

No. We have no waiting list so no concrete case to expand. That is based on fact. Yours are based on assumptions.

[Matthew Le God]

Your already pathetic credibility.

 

I think you will find both of us have people on these forums supporting our views and probably the majority in the middle of the two viewpoints.

[CB Fry]

I think you will find both of us have people on these forums supporting our views and probably the majority in the middle of the two viewpoints.

 

Any news on what a "compulsory waiting list" is by the way? You've had a day or so to work up an answer.

[Matthew Le God]

No. We have no waiting list so no concrete case to expand. That is based on fact. Yours are based on assumptions.

 

I think it is a safe assumption to make that if a club can average over 30k in a 32k stadium whilst 20th and relegated then it can and should expand if it has ambitions of being over 10 places higher.

 

Lets apply your waiting list logic here...

 

If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600?

Edited 12 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[stev2001]

No. We have no waiting list so no concrete case to expand. That is based on fact. Yours are based on assumptions.

Surely every time we sell out there is a need for more seats. FACT. Are you assuming NC needs to see a waiting list before we expand. Maybe he thinks differently to that.

[Matthew Le God]

Any news on what a "compulsory waiting list" is by the way? You've had a day or so to work up an answer.

 

I didn't say they actually existed did I? You are taking it out of context.

[Red]

ok so back to the point of the argument.

 

Next year is simply about staying up and laying foundations for "consolidation" think that is a no brainer for everyone.

 

There is nothing new in that - it is what Lowe did - live from one Dividend & Shareholders meeting to the next.

 

Now from ALL the public statements and decisions taken to date, it is clear there is no short term view being taken when it comes to major decisions.

 

So The 5 Year Plan can quite easily have a mission statement that says.

 

We will aim to achieve a level which would bring CL football to Southampton. It is a MISSION STATEMENT, it makes sure you have a context in which to analyse a business decision. It is NOT saying we will be in the CL in 5 years, only 2 posters have said that, it got blurred by people who cannot read

 

The FIRST 5 years would have targets -

Are we going to stay up?

Do we need to keep some budget for January just in case?

How much to replace NA & the team to keep us up IF they really cannot hack it?

How many new shorts training kits bags boots balls etc will we sell now we have gone up?

 

Then as discussed how fast do we sell out/ How many could we have sold last week? what is the average away following of Sunderland/Villa as well as the big clubs, what is the average number of away fan tickets we COULD sell, what was the average demand each week for Away fan tickets

 

And of course the big one - do we have a waiting list?

 

Those questions can be asked weekly, monthly or at the end of the season, the plan would then say oh we need a bigger stadium (demand shows it is there or it is NOT there.

 

THEN the question is how many seats do we need now?

What would we have to do to make that trend continue?

Again revisit the OTHER question, do we have the resources and momentum and the crowd to keep progressing?

 

It is at THIS TIME that the BIG decisions need to be made - 2, 3 or 4 years down the line. IF we are krap then of course it is not discussed

 

Agree. I would also add that IF there is a proven need for more seats, then there also needs to be a return on investment (ROI) - so if we could sell 5K more average per game (we will not sell out all games at the increased capacity), and the cost to extend stadium shows a return of longer than 5 to 7 years, it is unlikely we will extend. Instead we will increase the price of tickets and corporate hospitality (for the big games) by a level that will get us maximum revenue (not necessarily physical attendance), or adopt some other financial mechanism to leverage maximum return – don’t forget NC is a financial whiz kid and will be an expert at this (not wishing to imply he will screw the fans – just that he will get the best and I believe fairest return for the club).

 

As a side point, there have been many games I could not get a ticket. Living abroad it is more tricky, but I am family and friends in Southampton who sometimes go beyond the extra mile to get one (as per Coventry), but you do not want to abuse the goodwill, and I would bring along a few non-Saints fans for company. So I think we could easily sell more tickets – how many more, I cannot say?

 

I am sure NC will improve the marketing side of the club, including tickets.

[CB Fry]

I didn't say they actually existed did I? You are taking it out of context.

 

 

 

You suggested we didn't have one because they weren't compulsory, rather than the fact we don't have a significant volume of fans wanting a ST who can't get one.