New 5 year Plan

[Mowgli]

Don't forget to resurrect this thread when we are in the top four at Christmas

[trousers]

Cheers

[PhilippineSaint]

You're forgetting about man walking on the moon and all that.

 

Their is still no proof that they actually did that

[ericb]

Going by saints web logic the only realistic aim is to declare southampton a sovereign state and win the world cup with in 5 years. Oh and by the way did anyone mention most of you football manager geek types on here are FU.CKING MENTAL!?

[Matthew Le God]

Someone remind me to resurrect this thread when we're top 4 at Christmas. Thanks.

 

Like when Rupert Lowe was the chairman and not exactly investing in the club?

 

Premier League table on Christmas Day 2003...

 

 

Who knows what is possible with Liebherr/Cortese funding and running the club and actually investing unlike Rupert Lowe...?

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Sour Mash]

Like when Rupert Lowe was the chairman and not exactly investing in the club?

 

Premier League table on Christmas Day 2003...

 

 

Who knows what is possible with the Liebherr's backing the club and actually investing unlike Rupert Lowe...?

Anything is 'possible'. We're talking about realistic expectations here.

[Matthew Le God]

Anything is 'possible'. We're talking about realistic expectations here.

 

Answer these please...

 

1) If in the summer of 2003 I said on a Saints forum that under Rupert Lowe Saints would be 4th on Christmas day 2003, what would you have said?

 

2) If in the summer of 2017 I said on a Saints forum that under Nicola Cortese/Liebherr Saints would be 4th on Christmas day 2017, what would you say?

 

Lowe's lack of investment after this point led to Strachan quitting and a downward spiral as the club didn't press home it advantage after the cup final and 8th place finish in 2002/03. Had we been owned by someone with ambition and the resources to meet those ambitions, Saints may have kept Strachan and maintained a higher position beyond Christmas Day 2003 than their eventual 12th place that season.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Sour Mash]

So if in the summer of 2003 I said on a Saints forum that under Rupert Lowe Saints would be 4th on Christmas day, what would you have said?

Where we finish the season is what matters. Also the gap between the top teams and the rest of the league is bigger than ever now. Just look at the last 10 years of final Premier League tables.

[Matthew Le God]

I've was editing the post as you responded. Can you answer it as it now stands?

[Matthew Le God]

Where we finish the season is what matters.

 

I know, but as I outlined it was lack of investment from Lowe in the winter of 2003/04 that probably led to Strachan leaving and a downward spiral of two relegations and administration.

 

Also the gap between the top teams and the rest of the league is bigger than ever now. Just look at the last 10 years of final Premier League tables.

 

And what has made the gap bigger? Ambition and the money to fulfil that ambition, both of which Cortese/Liebherr seem to have along with the good management skills to pull it off.

 

FFP regulations will make clubs even more reliant on the revenue they create, hence why so many clubs are currently looking to expand or relocate their stadiums. FFP is a key factor that you continuingly overlook whenever we discuss expanding or relocating away from St Mary's. In order for Saints to compete they will need more than 32k seats as without them their key competitors will have a higher turnover and be able to spend more on transfers and wages.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Sour Mash]

I know, but as I outlined it was lack of investment from Lowe in the winter of 2003/04 that probably led to Strachan leaving and a downward spiral of two relegations and administration.

 

 

 

And what has made the gap bigger? Ambition and the money to fulfil that ambition, both of which Cortese/Liebherr seem to have along with the good management skills to pull it off.

 

FFP regulations will make clubs even more reliant on the revenue they create, hence why so many clubs are currently looking to expand or relocate their stadiums. FFP is a key factor that you continuingly overlook whenever we discuss expanding or relocating away from St Mary's. In order for Saints to compete they will need more than 32k seats as without them their key competitors will have a higher turnover and be able to spend more on transfers and wages.

The FFP would make it harder for a club like ours to compete. 32k seats at £40/45 a pop is the most we're going to be able to generate through ticket sales.

[Matthew Le God]

The FFP would make it harder for a club like ours to compete. 32k seats at £40/45 a pop is the most we're going to be able to generate through ticket sales.

 

Ah, so you agree, in order for Saints to remain competitive when FFP comes in they would need to expand or relocate in order to increase revenue streams?

 

It has been a long time coming, but you've finally seen the light!

[SNSUN]

Our goal should be to become a stable Premier League side, financially sound, with an academy that produces quality players that fill around half our first team. Can we challenge for the title? One day, not in the next five years though, but having said that, Newcastle aren't doing badly in their second season in the league.

 

That all said, we could drop back down to the nPC next year, in which case the 'new' five year plan could be to get back to the Premier League - as the current one was.

[Sour Mash]

Ah, so you agree, in order for Saints to remain competitive when FFP comes in they would need to expand or relocate in order to increase revenue streams?

 

Took a while, but you finally saw the light.

No, that's not what I said is it.

 

It's entirely your choice if you want to expect to see Saints playing infront of 60k in the Champs League, the rest of us will crack on enjoying real life football.

[Dark Munster]

Very few achieve them though

 

Very few have billionaire owners.

[Rut]

How about keeping our best players and then take it from there.

 

We've not had to sell anyone good for a while now. Would be nice to keep it that way.

[Frank's cousin]

Year 1 - survival

Year 2 - mid-lower table, 8-15th

Year 3 - 6-10th

Year 4 - UEFA qualification

Year 5 - ?

 

Probably, a reasonable ambition... as others have said, alot will depend on the impact of the financial fair play rules. The problem we have is that there are perhaps 6 cubs in the Premier League that currently have so much financial muscle and that can offer a 'Good' chance of silverwear, that even if we find/develop decent players who are capable of breaking into the top 6, keeping them is alway going to be a problem, simply because of reputation, even if we were abe to afford players on £50k a week, we would not hold on to the best, that constant disruption and losing the best is what keeps the 'nearly' clubs - 'in their place'.

 

What chance Demba Ba or Cisse still being at Newcastle next season if some one comes in with a good offer and champions league football?

 

Its just unfortunately the disadvantage of the so called 'best league in the world' - If we were a Bundesliga club, it might be possible - for some reason young players tend to stay with their first club until 22/23 and you see clubs like Leverkusen (who had a 22k ground capacity when they reached the final), Schalke etc do well cyclically.

 

...all depends on what kind of 'equity' invetsment remains to be had, and what becomes the 'sustainable' norm wages wise under FFP.

 

That said, aiming to be the very best is never a bad ambition. Aspiration to be the best should not be dismissed with the negative rhetoric, otherwise why bother getting promoted, just to 'take part'? We need to believe that anything is possible with graft, luck and solid financial planning and management. Add a huge does of sporting luck and who knows where it will take us.

[stev2001]

Year 1 - survival

Year 2 - mid-lower table, 8-15th

Year 3 - 6-10th

Year 4 - UEFA qualification

Year 5 - ?

 

Y1 - survival

Y2 - survival

Y3 - survival but expect top 15. Start stadium expansion if needed.

Y4 - aim top half of table and bring in more quality

Y5 - be a well established prem club with a chance of a cup win or top 6 finish if luck goes our way.

[um pahars]

Like when Rupert Lowe was the chairman and not exactly investing in the club?

 

Premier League table on Christmas Day 2003...

 

 

Who knows what is possible with Liebherr/Cortese funding and running the club and actually investing unlike Rupert Lowe...?

 

13 points between 3rd and 4th, yet only 10 points between 4th and a relegation spot.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by um pahars

[Doctoroncall]

In five years time I'd like to see Saints finish in the top half, be able to challenge for a domestic cup and have half the team coming from the academy. dreaming it would be able to get to 5th place in the league on the back of a fantastic academy producing almost all of the team and a cup final appearance.

[stev2001]

13 points between 3rd and 4th, yet only 10 points between 4th and a relegation spot.

 

Or to put it another way saints are 10 points above Pompey

[BristolSaint]

Pie in the sky. Saints need a 60k stadium in the same way Darlington need a 25k stadium.

 

50-60k stadium would make SMS the 3rd largest stadium in premiership after Emirates and Old Trafford. Cant see there being sufficient demand in the area for a stadium of 60k (even if PFC go under- you wont suddenly get 18,000 extra saints fans traveliing from Poopey every match).

 

Structurally I am sure it has been said before that the current site could not faciliate a 60,000 seater stadium

[Toadhall Saint]

Nothing is impossible but CL in 5 years? Not probable. Mind you looking at how Newcastle are doing this season then I suppose you have to say its possible. 5 years is a long time and anything can happen in that time. If someone had said that Newcastle would be challenging for a CL place at the start of the season I'd have probably all but laughed in their face.

 

Will the same thing happen at SFC?? Who knows but it would be wrong not to at least aim for it. I know for one I'm going to enjoy the ride where ever that may take us.

[paulwantsapint]

Was the original 5 year plan promotion or being established in the prem?

 

 

 

That table from 03/04 has 9 teams that have been relegated, 5 of which that have been down to league 1, & another 2 who are about to be relegated

[stev2001]

50-60k stadium would make SMS the 3rd largest stadium in premiership after Emirates and Old Trafford. Cant see there being sufficient demand in the area for a stadium of 60k (even if PFC go under- you wont suddenly get 18,000 extra saints fans traveliing from Poopey every match).

 

Structurally I am sure it has been said before that the current site could not faciliate a 60,000 seater stadium

 

I don't think anyone in their right mind would think saints need a 60k seat stadium? Even if we get into the champions league we'd only fill that a few times a season. Expansion may happen but will be a gradual process if demand is there.

[Verbal Kint]

Pie in the sky. Saints need a 60k stadium in the same way Darlington need a 25k stadium.

 

Just playing devil's advocate a little here, as i tend to agree with you, but if you've got a successful side (and i mean successful in the sense of champions league qualification i.e. spurs) then you might get enough people coming from surrounding areas to justify it.

 

I've never understood the attendance debates on here. The more success you have on the pitch, the more people will want to come and watch. So far we've seen that a mid table team with a decent cup run generates pretty much sold out games every week at St. Mary's. The year after we got to the cup final we averaged 31,700 and our lowest attendance was 30,500, which is still about 95% of capacity. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to be thinking if we were regularly in the top 8 we could justify at least a 40k stadium. Beyond that, nobody knows what the potential fan base is, because we've never had a chance to find out

[pap]

A hallmark of the current club setup is overachievement. If Cortese/Liebherrs are in it for the long haul, not sure if they will be happy with standing still in the Premiership, especially with the couple of years we've just had.

 

I know it sounds mental, but if they do have a new five year plan, expect European qualification to be an objective.

[Wes Tender]

Nothing is impossible but CL in 5 years? Not probable. Mind you looking at how Newcastle are doing this season then I suppose you have to say its possible. 5 years is a long time and anything can happen in that time. If someone had said that Newcastle would be challenging for a CL place at the start of the season I'd have probably all but laughed in their face.

 

Will the same thing happen at SFC?? Who knows but it would be wrong not to at least aim for it. I know for one I'm going to enjoy the ride where ever that may take us.

 

My position too. Sensible people allow for the unlikely to happen and one doesn't have to look far for an example, as there were many on here who scoffed at the possibility of us going up in successive seasons. Naturally there were all sorts of logical reasons why it just wasn't going to happen; there were bigger clubs in the division than when Norwich did it, others were spending shed loads on players, etc.

 

But happen it did.

 

And to those saying that one only has to look at the last decade to get some perspective, go ahead and look at the table a decade ago. There were teams who were dominating then that have slipped down the division now and conversely there are others who have risen to the top now who did not feature prominently then.

 

As to this season, who would have placed Liverpool so low and Newcastle and Tottenham so high? And a season where ManUre won nothing at all, Chelsea did well in Europe, but not so well in the league?

 

A combination of factors could very well combine to produce a high table finish one season within a 5 year time span. New regulations to produce a more level playing field financially would favour us. Also during that time span, we will develop the next crop of academy players and if doing well, we could either keep them here, or sell for mega-bucks if they are showcasing their talents in the Premiership. An expanded stadium capacity would bring in additional revenue to invest in the team's quality. So a combination of these factors might well produce a finish one season in the comparatively near future to enable us to gain a place in Europe.

[Turkish]

My position too. Sensible people allow for the unlikely to happen and one doesn't have to look far for an example, as there were many on here who scoffed at the possibility of us going up in successive seasons. Naturally there were all sorts of logical reasons why it just wasn't going to happen; there were bigger clubs in the division than when Norwich did it, others were spending shed loads on players, etc.

 

But happen it did.

 

And to those saying that one only has to look at the last decade to get some perspective, go ahead and look at the table a decade ago. There were teams who were dominating then that have slipped down the division now and conversely there are others who have risen to the top now who did not feature prominently then.

 

As to this season, who would have placed Liverpool so low and Newcastle and Tottenham so high? And a season where ManUre won nothing at all, Chelsea did well in Europe, but not so well in the league?

 

A combination of factors could very well combine to produce a high table finish one season within a 5 year time span. New regulations to produce a more level playing field financially would favour us. Also during that time span, we will develop the next crop of academy players and if doing well, we could either keep them here, or sell for mega-bucks if they are showcasing their talents in the Premiership. An expanded stadium capacity would bring in additional revenue to invest in the team's quality. So a combination of these factors might well produce a finish one season in the comparatively near future to enable us to gain a place in Europe.

 

Sorry, which teams that were "dominating" 10 years go have slipped down a division now?

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Mowgli]

From a league one relegation candidate to premier league in 18 months? We're way past 'reality' already. CL must be part of the five year plan. Whether we achieve that is another matter entirely but that must be the aim. It was Lowes plan too but I have a bit more faith in NC / NA to get us closer to that.

[Turkish]

From a league one relegation candidate to premier league in 18 months? We're way past 'reality' already. CL must be part of the five year plan. Whether we achieve that is another matter entirely but that must be the aim. It was Lowes plan too but I have a bit more faith in NC / NA to get us closer to that.

 

Behave yourself, we were never league one relegation candidates. Don't forget everyone expected us to run away with the league one title last season, promotion was the minimum requirement. this season has been great and far more than we could have hoped for in August, but the champions league is a million miles away and the stuff of dreamers, of which there seems to be plenty on here.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by Turkish

[Sour Mash]

My position too. Sensible people allow for the unlikely to happen and one doesn't have to look far for an example, as there were many on here who scoffed at the possibility of us going up in successive seasons. Naturally there were all sorts of logical reasons why it just wasn't going to happen; there were bigger clubs in the division than when Norwich did it, others were spending shed loads on players, etc.

 

But happen it did.

 

And to those saying that one only has to look at the last decade to get some perspective, go ahead and look at the table a decade ago. There were teams who were dominating then that have slipped down the division now and conversely there are others who have risen to the top now who did not feature prominently then.

 

As to this season, who would have placed Liverpool so low and Newcastle and Tottenham so high? And a season where ManUre won nothing at all, Chelsea did well in Europe, but not so well in the league?

 

A combination of factors could very well combine to produce a high table finish one season within a 5 year time span. New regulations to produce a more level playing field financially would favour us. Also during that time span, we will develop the next crop of academy players and if doing well, we could either keep them here, or sell for mega-bucks if they are showcasing their talents in the Premiership. An expanded stadium capacity would bring in additional revenue to invest in the team's quality. So a combination of these factors might well produce a finish one season in the comparatively near future to enable us to gain a place in Europe.

There is a massive difference between nicking a Europa League place, like Fulham etc and expecting Champions League football.

 

Surely you'd agree that there is more chance we'll be relegated again in the next 5years than be playing Champions League football?

[Sour Mash]

From a league one relegation candidate to premier league in 18 months? We're way past 'reality' already. CL must be part of the five year plan. Whether we achieve that is another matter entirely but that must be the aim. It was Lowes plan too but I have a bit more faith in NC / NA to get us closer to that.

Way past reality already? Hardly, as we just repeated what Norwich did. We've got a lower mid-table Prem League set up and support, so hardly a surprise we returned there at some point. We don't have anywhere near Champs League/Premier League title set up, so it would be massively unrealistic to expect that.

[dubai_phil]

OK so let's get back to the OP. This is a 5 Year Plan. It is not a 5 year guess.

 

So the Plan will contain a RoadMap. It will set targets and budgets for each of the next 5 years.

 

Year one achieve survival means you know what your TV & minimum Prize Money income will be. You could guess an average attendance & Merchandising earning figure. That becomes the Operational Budget for the Year and becomes NA's transfer budget (inc salaries). You even have a plan in case of failure (the Parachute Payments) so you make sure you don't commit to long term contracts that the PP's cannot cover in nPc. It ain't rocket science.

 

Ditto the subsequent years, Each survival and improvement sets the prize money.

 

BUT and here is the point people. This plan MUST include WHAT IF factors.

 

Sod you Uber fans, IF the club is successful in staying up and progressing, there is an extreme possibility that for a large percentage of home matches, MORE than 32,000 people will want to go. FFS we had a sell out against EXETER, and you wonder about the crowd for Wigan?

 

The 5 Year Plan MUST include a method of coping with that demand. That will mean EITHER continuous increases in Ticket Prices OR you plan to make MORE tickets available.

 

It is NOT going to be done WITHOUT a clear Business Reason. It is NOT going to be done just to annoy Turkish, it would be done WHEN there are 5 people each week INSISTING that they will pay 80 quid or more for Turkish's seat. Fairness doesn't come into it. This is the PL FFS - Divers, Agents & Cheaters paradise

 

The BUSINESS PLAN will have to establish BENCHMARKS.

 

It will have to have Contingencies and it will have to have a budget allocated to look at ALL the options (Architects Planners Lawyers Consultants just for the Oh krap we are full every week NOW what do we do moment).

 

The POINT is that it will be a BUDGET for a POSSIBILITY with key targets to be met BEFORE it needs to happen.

 

Lowe was "An Idiot" for not investing - NC is no Idiot, he is working out EXACTLY how much money is needed for each of the POSSIBILITIES, then his job is to make sure that IF such an eventuality happens he has the funding to do it.

 

NC is sure as hell not going to find himself in the Top 4 at Christmas (any time in the next 4 years) and then say Oh bugger I didn't think this would happen I have no money available in January.

 

And likewise he will have balanced Summer spends with an Emergency spend to stay up budget in January.

 

 

IT IS PLANNING.

 

Of COURSE he will PLAN what to do if we reach the CL, IF we COULD sell out 50, 60 or even 100,000 tickets a week. Of COURSE he will work out the risks and costs of adding 8,000 at SMS vs having something bigger elsewhere.

 

EQUALLY it does not mean he will DO IT

 

LOWE - had no plan. He had an Opportunity he had no idea what to do with it. NC is NOT that stupid, he will cover ALL eventualities

[beatlesaint]

Newcastle.

 

I know they are a "bigger" club than us BUT they haven't spent shed loads, I dont think they even gave Pardew all the Andy Caroll money, but thats the kind of thing I would think NC will look at, a club who, and it may only be a one off season, has *****ed the bubble of the big four.

 

If it is true that NC is looking at adding a tier to three stands IF we stay up next year then on potential gates of 40-45000 it is certainly possible but not straight away obviously.

 

Realisitc terms would suggest doing a Fulham with the Europa League and if everything falls into place then doing a Newcastle this season.

But I would think the first 2 or 3 years will be about survival and then establishing ourselves back in The Premiership.

[aintforever]

The usual short-sighted mongs laughed on here when Cortese said he wanted to win the Championship at the start of this season, yet we came within a point and should have won it.

 

The lack of ambition among many Saints fans is no surprise, Cortese will be aiming for Europe next season. CL in the future is definitely achievable. Everton have qualified before, Newcastle could do this year.

[Legod Third Coming]

We will not qualify for the champions league, or compete for the premier league. That will never happen at this football club, let's be realistic.

What is possible though is creating a sustainable and established premiership club, which can compete in the cups and flirt with the top 6/7 places in the league. That's probably the maximum this club can achieve in all honesty.

 

Ok, here are some things to consider...

 

The first game I ever saw was Portsmouth versus Chelsea in the second division. At the end of that game Chelsea were within one point of relegation to the third tier of English football. It would be about 1980.

 

If you had said to Manchester City fans during their spell in League One with 16,000 turning up to Maine Road that they would have won the Premiership in 2012... what reaction do you think you would have received?

 

In 1974, when we were relegated, so were Manchester United.

 

Porto won the Champion's League.

 

Greece and Denmark have won the Euros - Germany, France, Spain, Holland and Italy still existed.

 

Newcastle were relegated in 2009. Their owner is worth half of ours (£1.5bn versus £3bn)...

 

In football, NOTHING is impossible.

[Wes Tender]

Way past reality already? Hardly, as we just repeated what Norwich did. We've got a lower mid-table Prem League set up and support, so hardly a surprise we returned there at some point. We don't have anywhere near Champs League/Premier League title set up, so it would be massively unrealistic to expect that.

 

Yes, way past reality is a pretty fair assessment. And even though Norwich managed it before us, doesn't in any way detract from the feat, as it is historically a rarity. And although I really can't be bothered to trawl back to what your prediction was at the start of the season, I'd be pretty confident that it was not promotion. Therefore it would be rather ironic for you to be lessening the magnitude of our achievement now.

 

Sour Mash: Surely you'd agree that there is more chance we'll be relegated again in the next 5years than be playing Champions League football?

 

Well, that's a tight one to call. Personally, I am of the opinion that because of the financial levelling of the playing field, there is a good chance that we could equal our previous tenure of 27 years in the Premiership. If you broadened the argument as to whether there was more chance of relegation than Champions League football sometime in the future, I'd be disposed to believe that we would achieve Champions League football first.

[Sour Mash]

Newcastle.

 

I know they are a "bigger" club than us BUT they haven't spent shed loads, I dont think they even gave Pardew all the Andy Caroll money, but thats the kind of thing I would think NC will look at, a club who, and it may only be a one off season, has *****ed the bubble of the big four.

 

If it is true that NC is looking at adding a tier to three stands IF we stay up next year then on potential gates of 40-45000 it is certainly possible but not straight away obviously.

 

Realisitc terms would suggest doing a Fulham with the Europa League and if everything falls into place then doing a Newcastle this season.

But I would think the first 2 or 3 years will be about survival and then establishing ourselves back in The Premiership.

Yep, Newcastle are a much, much, bigger club than us, so not really a comparison. When we spend £10million on a class striker like Cisse come back to me and I'll start getting excited.

[View From The Top]

League Cup is a realistic goal next season. But more important to stay up..

 

I'm most likely in a minority of 1 but I'd take a Wembley win and relegation next season.

[aintforever]

Yep, Newcastle are a much, much, bigger club than us, so not really a comparison. When we spend £10million on a class striker like Cisse come back to me and I'll start getting excited.

 

How did the pay for Ba?

[Sour Mash]

The usual short-sighted mongs laughed on here when Cortese said he wanted to win the Championship at the start of this season, yet we came within a point and should have won it.

 

The lack of ambition among many Saints fans is no surprise, Cortese will be aiming for Europe next season. CL in the future is definitely achievable. Everton have qualified before, Newcastle could do this year.

You think a club the size of Saints getting promoted from the Championship and qualifying for Champions League football are comparable achievements? Go away and take a look at who has qualified for it in the last 10 years.

 

Even Newcastle, a massive club, hugely over-achieving and having their best season in many, many years, with Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool regularly f******g up and it still looks like they'll end up with Europa League football.

[beatlesaint]

Yep, Newcastle are a much, much, bigger club than us, so not really a comparison. When we spend £10million on a class striker like Cisse come back to me and I'll start getting excited.

 

You missed my first point, they havent spent an awful lot by PL standards. Take a look at their transfer activity this year....

 

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/newcastle-united/2012/6/

[Wes Tender]

Ok, here are some things to consider...

 

The first game I ever saw was Portsmouth versus Chelsea in the second division. At the end of that game Chelsea were within one point of relegation to the third tier of English football. It would be about 1980.

 

1974, when we were relegated, so were Manchester United.

 

If you had said to Manchester City fans during their spell in League One with 16,000 turning up to Maine Road that they would have won the Premiership in 2012... what reaction do you think you would have received?In

 

Porto won the Champion's League.

 

Greece and Denmark have won the Euros - Germany, France, Spain, Holland and Italy still existed.

 

Newcastle were relegated in 2009. Their owner is worth half of ours (£1.5bn versus £3bn)...

 

In football, NOTHING is impossible.

 

You're wasting your time trying to provide historical perspective to the argument. This won't wash with pimply youths too young to remember. It is only a short time ago when this same argument about our future prospects brought the response that there were only an elite handful of clubs who would dominate the top four positions for evermore. Already that looks pretty stupid based on this season's positions, where they had assured us that Liverpool had one of those positions by divine right. I can foresee a situation that ManUre might well drop down a few places too when Fergie retires.

[Turkish]

The usual bullsh*t on here whenever anyone starts these champions league or ground expansions. Oh look at Chelsea in 1980. Look at Man United in 1974. Cortese is investing. The financial playing field is being levelled which will help us (how exactly?) Cortese said he wants champions leavue football when we were in league one. when we have our 45k stadium it'll all be different. Everton did it once. Something about it being possible, it is, it is to say it isn't is a lack of ambition. It's entirely possible anything is, they said man would never climb Everest.

[capitalsaint]

I'm just happy to be back in the Premier League.

[Wes Tender]

Yep, Newcastle are a much, much, bigger club than us, so not really a comparison. When we spend £10million on a class striker like Cisse come back to me and I'll start getting excited.

 

Let me open your eyes, if not your mind.

 

So Newcastle spend £10 million on Cisse and that justifies your argument that they are a big club. So remind me how much we got for Oxlade-Chamberlain? How much would Bale be worth today? Walcott?

 

Either we now begin to keep those sorts of player from our academy, in which case we could argue that our team comprises several players worth far more than the likes of Cisse, or we sell them to a bigger club and gain more money than Cisse is worth.

 

Do you see?

[View From The Top]

CL = Not a hope in hell.

 

Anything else = Why not.

[Turkish]

You missed my first point, they havent spent an awful lot by PL standards. Take a look at their transfer activity this year....

 

http://www.worldfootball.net/teams/newcastle-united/2012/6/

 

Aston Villa spent Over £120m on transfers between 2008 and 2011 and never finished higher than 6th and are fighting a relegation battle this season. How do you propose we do better?

[Sour Mash]

Yes, way past reality is a pretty fair assessment. And even though Norwich managed it before us, doesn't in any way detract from the feat, as it is historically a rarity. And although I really can't be bothered to trawl back to what your prediction was at the start of the season, I'd be pretty confident that it was not promotion. Therefore it would be rather ironic for you to be lessening the magnitude of our achievement now.

 

 

 

Well, that's a tight one to call. Personally, I am of the opinion that because of the financial levelling of the playing field, there is a good chance that we could equal our previous tenure of 27 years in the Premiership. If you broadened the argument as to whether there was more chance of relegation than Champions League football sometime in the future, I'd be disposed to believe that we would achieve Champions League football first.

I'd suggest you check a dictionary for the definition of 'reality', if you think us doing what Norwich had done the previous season constitutes 'beyond' that and is on a par with a club our size qualifying for the Champs League.

 

For what it's worth I didn't expect us to finish top two this season just gone. But I'd have considered it a much more realistic and likely scenario for a club our size than Champs League qualification within the next 5 years which is what this thread is about. The new financial regulations will make it harder for clubs our size to compete with the bigger club.