New 5 year Plan

[dubai_phil]

Saints had a thriving Junior Saints and Family Centre right throughout the 80s. Plenty went to football as kids through the 70s and 80s without any problems. Yeah those modern celebrity things, not like Kevin Keegan, Shilton, etc of the 80s.

 

Who has said football will never change? No-one. You're off your head if you think we're on a par with Newcastle, Man City, Arsenal or whoever and are about to start playing in the Champions League.

 

Never ONCE have I said that.

 

You are off your head if you think we should not plan for EVERY eventuality (which I mentioned also would include possible relegation)

 

Now. Let's try this again.

 

Do we intend to be sustainable?

 

Are we investing in an Academy to produce more home grown players ?

 

So. On YOUR logic the ONLY reason we could have for settling for PERMANENT mid table mediocrity is that the Academy is there to produce players to pay for our expenses ie Rupert mark 2.

 

But NA and NC have continually said we want to keep improving

 

So, the DECISIONS that get taken NOW, THIS summer, will they be old proven cast offs to ONLY guarantee survival> Or will they match a template that is building for a future? More Jack Corks or a bunch of El Hadj Diouf's?

 

The AIM or VISION of the club is to be Self Sustainable and be the Best that we can be in the PL. So the decisions of who to buy, putting the money into Staplewood are about a Vision.

 

It could take 10 years it could take 20 years but the DECISIONS on the future of the club are being made with something OTHER than paying homage to "The City"

 

Who has said CL in 5 years time on this thread? I haven't.

[JPTCount]

What Asian income? If you're talking about a few Japanese people buying our shirts because of Chun, then that's a relative dip in the pacific ocean....

 

And we don't have much debt, but to get CL football within 5 years we will need to rack up an extraordinary amount of debt. That doesn't fit in with the sustainable model that Cortese is pushing.

 

u have to start somewhere in the global market and Japanese fans follow players more than clubs. and we are on the radar in Brazil thanks to do prado. my dad's mate was in a bar in Brazil that had the Coventry game in, no red n white stripes but most in the bar were cheering us on. these little things will have an impact in a few years, becoming globally famous is clearly in the business plan Serbia us the most diverse squad I've ever seen

 

and we have NO debt, and nc wants to keep it that way. I'm pretty confident any further investment will be wiped off as club equity in the future. we won't be spending like city, but we wont be paying interest on bank loans either

Edited 8 May, 2012 by JPTCount

[The Cat]

I heard last night from someone who knows people at the club that Cortese's new goal is for us to get in the Champions League.

 

The first part of the plan was to get back to the Premier League, now he wants bigger things.

 

True or not I don't know but it's quite amusing in lieu of this thread!

[Thedelldays]

u have to start somewhere in the final market and Japanese fans follow players more than clubs. and we are on the radar in Brazil thanks to do prado. my dad's mate was in a bar in Brazil that had the Coventry game in, no red n white stripes but most in the bar were cheering us on. these little things will have an impact in a few years, becoming globally famous is clearly in the business plan Serbia us the most diverse squad I've ever seen

 

and we have NO debt, and nc wants to keep it that way. I'm pretty confident any further investment will be wiped if as club equity in the future. we won't be spending like city, but we wont be paying interest on bank loans either

 

[doddisalegend]

I'm I the only one who thinks we're more likely to be relegated in the next 5 years than be in the CL? I'm not saying we will be relegated it's just if I had to put money on one of those two outcomes being more likely I'd plump for relegation.......

[JPTCount]

 

will teach me to make long posts from my phone, my auto correct is clearly retarded

[Thedelldays]

I'm I the only one who thinks we're more likely to be relegated in the next 5 years than be in the CL? I'm not saying we will be relegated it's just if I had to put money on one of those two outcomes being more likely I'd plump for relegation.......

damn right!

[stev2001]

And I'm saying they must be fairly minimal in their numbers? I'm not sure on the crowds their rugby team get's but I'd bet it's not enough to significantly impact on their crowds?

 

But what percentage arent that bothered about going when the team isnt doing well due to the fact they choose to play rugby at school rather than Football and don't have quite the same passion about football as we do. I travelled new zealand with a guy from bath and he hated football as he was a big rugby fan. If bath never had rugby their football club would have a much bigger following fact. I expect there are a few like that in Plymouth and Bristol.

My Grandparents have lived in Cornwall for the last 20 years and their village is mad on cricket and kids there love cricket, without cricket would Truro FC have a bigger following?

I'm sure having more than one sport in a city has an impact on attendance, that's all I'm saying.

[Legod Third Coming]

Never ONCE have I said that.

 

You are off your head if you think we should not plan for EVERY eventuality (which I mentioned also would include possible relegation)

 

Now. Let's try this again.

 

Do we intend to be sustainable?

 

Are we investing in an Academy to produce more home grown players ?

 

So. On YOUR logic the ONLY reason we could have for settling for PERMANENT mid table mediocrity is that the Academy is there to produce players to pay for our expenses ie Rupert mark 2.

 

But NA and NC have continually said we want to keep improving

 

So, the DECISIONS that get taken NOW, THIS summer, will they be old proven cast offs to ONLY guarantee survival> Or will they match a template that is building for a future? More Jack Corks or a bunch of El Hadj Diouf's?

 

The AIM or VISION of the club is to be Self Sustainable and be the Best that we can be in the PL. So the decisions of who to buy, putting the money into Staplewood are about a Vision.

 

It could take 10 years it could take 20 years but the DECISIONS on the future of the club are being made with something OTHER than paying homage to "The City"

 

Who has said CL in 5 years time on this thread? I haven't.

 

And again. Exfeckingxactly.

 

Our Chairman has made a promise and delivered on it.

 

But somehow because he may be making another promise, he has no idea how to deliver it??

 

So that would explain how he became so succesful - knowing less than a few people on the internet with too much time on their hands. I must give that approach to business a try...

[Frank's cousin]

I also find it interesting that most people who seem to think we can make the Champions League are the same people that think fancy dress is acceptable at football.

 

It would appear that they're not just content with looking like idiots, they also have to sound like one too.

 

I also find it interesting that most people who seem to think we cant push any boundaries and want to accept our 'station', and cant grow our fan base and achieve something remarkable are the same people who feel there is no place in football for thsoe that wish to support the club as they see fit...

 

It would appear that they're not just content with being intolerant towards a minority of fans who dress up daft, they also do not wish to accept that football can change, be it the fan base, the culture or the ideal to challenge preconceptions of what is possible.

[suewhistle]

I also find it interesting that most people who seem to think we can make the Champions League are the same people that think fancy dress is acceptable at football.

 

It would appear that they're not just content with looking like idiots, they also have to sound like one too.

 

You seem, like quite a number on this thread, to be playing the man and not the ball, or making up strawman arguments. I don't think many on here think or have said we can make the CL in 5 years but I'm sure some thought has gone in to the planning of such an achievement by the people who matter, even if not at a detailed level. They'll have been planning for after-promotion even before it was achieved, scouting and sounding out players, preliminary discussions with city planners and architects etc. I'm vaguely thinking of next week's follow-up lessons for the ones I did this morning, even if I have other more immediate plans to make and won't do the detailed stuff until the day before. It's standard business practice to do different levels of planning, as DP has pointed out. What we're doing here is speculating and discussing, at an optimistic level perhaps, what the new 5 year plan _might_ be.

 

We don't know, OK everybody? But give over the patronising rubbish, optimism-is-stupid type equation. For what it's worth I don't think we'd be able to do it in 5 years but I'm sure interested in seeing where we are within that period, and just how achievable it's looking _then_. It may be completely out of the question. In the mean time my shorter term planning prediction is that by June next year we'll have heard something official about stadium expansion plans...

 

[puts on tin hat and ducks]

[Sour Mash]

And again. Exfeckingxactly.

 

Our Chairman has made a promise and delivered on it.

 

But somehow because he may be making another promise, he has no idea how to deliver it??

 

So that would explain how he became so succesful - knowing less than a few people on the internet with too much time on their hands. I must give that approach to business a try...

What's the other promise that Cortese has made? You sound like you're privy to some information from NC that the rest of us aren't......

[Thedelldays]

if saints have a chance of CL in 5 years.. then so do...

 

Reading

Stoke

Fulham

everton

Newcastle

sunderland

villa (if they get a decent manager)

 

throw in

spurs

arsenal

chelsea

liverpool

man u

man c

 

 

how on earth are we going to all fit into 4 spots..?

[Sour Mash]

You've actually just explained why we didn't always sell out.. Do you think everybody wanted to turn up two hours before kick off with the danger still of not getting in and having travelled a bit of a way (from the Thames valley as happened to me and my Dad)? You can see why people didn't risk it. I managed to get a season ticket when I moved to the area and the ground became all ticket, but it was a bit of a struggle and lots of people didn't bother.

 

I sometimes speculate there must be a reason Cortese didn't push season tickets too much last season - and it did seem noticeable - and that was he wanted to maintain interest amongst more than just season ticket holders. If anybody can come up with any alternative - greater income from individual sales, perhaps - then I'm willing to consider them. It seemed strange at the time. It would be interesting to know how many people are on the club's database and how many different customers there were, and this is the sort of thing they will be considering when they make their decisions. I went to quite a few games with tickets a friend got for me so perhaps they should add mark my customer number as 'active'!

Our crowds were nothing exceptional at all last year considering it was the best season we have had for many, many years, playing exciting, attacking football, reasonably priced tickets, free tickets for under 11s (I think). Remember we only sold 75% of tickets for what was probably one of the biggest games ever in our history and some on here talk of us as a big, "Champions League" level club, it is very amusing.

[doddisalegend]

if saints have a chance of CL in 5 years.. then so do...

 

Reading

Stoke

Fulham

everton

Newcastle

sunderland

villa (if they get a decent manager)

 

throw in

spurs

arsenal

chelsea

liverpool

man u

man c

 

 

how on earth are we going to all fit into 4 spots..?

 

We're going to apply to join the SPL with rangers out the way a CL spot is a shoe in against all the crap teams up there.......

[Sour Mash]

I'm I the only one who thinks we're more likely to be relegated in the next 5 years than be in the CL? I'm not saying we will be relegated it's just if I had to put money on one of those two outcomes being more likely I'd plump for relegation.......

I asked Wes Tender that question earlier in the thread and he said he thought they were equally likely You've got to wonder how many are on a wind up, I can't take them seriously.

[dubai_phil]

What Asian income? If you're talking about a few Japanese people buying our shirts because of Chun, then that's a relative dip in the pacific ocean....

 

And we don't have much debt, but to get CL football within 5 years we will need to rack up an extraordinary amount of debt. That doesn't fit in with the sustainable model that Cortese is pushing.

 

Oh it will come. And it will come within the next 5 years.

 

Whether it is mid season friendlies in this part of the world (Yes Saints HAVE played mid season down here before and YES we are in Asia)

Or it is an invite to one of those tedious pre-season tournaments in Malaysia or Thailand or Japan or even against Anelka's mob in China.

 

The appetite for PL football has ballooned across Asia with every game being shown and with local language programmes. Sponsors want PL teams, there are only 18 of them to go round, eventually by being the only ones available we'll get an invite

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_Asia_Trophy

 

I mean FFS Hull City, portsmouth, Bolton, Fulham, Blackburn have all played there in the last 12 years as well as the so called big names of Wet Sham, Spuds, Citeh, Chelski

[Legod Third Coming]

What's the other promise that Cortese has made? You sound like you're privy to some information from NC that the rest of us aren't......

 

He promised you Premiership football in five years. Gave you it in three - should/could have been two.

[Thedelldays]

how has this asian income worked out for sunderland and bolton..?

[Thedelldays]

He promised you Premiership football in five years. Gave you it in three - should/could have been two.

the cost of getting saints to the prem is NOTHING compared getting saints to finish 4th

[Sour Mash]

Never ONCE have I said that.

 

You are off your head if you think we should not plan for EVERY eventuality (which I mentioned also would include possible relegation)

 

Now. Let's try this again.

 

Do we intend to be sustainable?

 

Are we investing in an Academy to produce more home grown players ?

 

So. On YOUR logic the ONLY reason we could have for settling for PERMANENT mid table mediocrity is that the Academy is there to produce players to pay for our expenses ie Rupert mark 2.

 

But NA and NC have continually said we want to keep improving

 

So, the DECISIONS that get taken NOW, THIS summer, will they be old proven cast offs to ONLY guarantee survival> Or will they match a template that is building for a future? More Jack Corks or a bunch of El Hadj Diouf's?

 

The AIM or VISION of the club is to be Self Sustainable and be the Best that we can be in the PL. So the decisions of who to buy, putting the money into Staplewood are about a Vision.

 

It could take 10 years it could take 20 years but the DECISIONS on the future of the club are being made with something OTHER than paying homage to "The City"

 

Who has said CL in 5 years time on this thread? I haven't.

So what exactly is your point? Or haven't you got one like Wes Tender? No-one plans for "every" eventuality, just realistic, attainable, yet challenging ones. This thread was started asking about is challenging for the Prem title and being in the Champs League as part of our plan for the next five years. That is what this thread is about. Normal people on this thread have said that isn't realistic, although conceded that anything is "possible". Loads of loons have waffled on all sorts of mad ideas. No-one is saying we should be mediocre. Cup runs, pushing for Europa League, growing the club steadily is great.

 

So what is your point? Or are you so busy writing long, waffling, convoluted posts you haven't bothered to read the thread or understand what it's actually about?

[djharvey]

if saints have a chance of CL in 5 years.. then so do...

 

Reading

Stoke

Fulham

everton

Newcastle

sunderland

villa (if they get a decent manager)

 

throw in

spurs

arsenal

chelsea

liverpool

man u

man c

 

 

how on earth are we going to all fit into 4 spots..?

 

You actually answered your own post in the first sentence. We have a chance (not a gaurenteed place).

[Legod Third Coming]

the cost of getting saints to the prem is NOTHING compared getting saints to finish 4th

 

Really? Next you'll be telling me the tides can't be turned back

 

I think we all know the cost - the interesting thing will be to hear the Chairman tell us what his ambition is. If he says he is targeting the Champion's League in five years, then he will have a credible plan in place for it. Because he us a credible guy.

[Sour Mash]

He promised you Premiership football in five years. Gave you it in three - should/could have been two.

What's this other promise that Cortese has made that you speak of? I'm dying to know. I'd hate to think you're just making things up like MLG.

[Thedelldays]

Really? Next you'll be telling me the tides can't be turned back

 

I think we all know the cost - the interesting thing will be to hear the Chairman tell us what his ambition is. If he says he is targeting the Champion's League in five years, then he will have a credible plan in place for it. Because he us a credible guy.

well, lets hope his plan is to get the family to pump circa £200m into the playing side of the club

[stev2001]

So to some up this whole thread......we have a very small chance of CL football within 5 years, but a chance none the less.

[Thedelldays]

So to some up this whole thread......we have a very small chance of CL football within 5 years, but a chance none the less.

about as much chance as we have to win the premier league....so yeah

[djharvey]

the cost of getting saints to the prem is NOTHING compared getting saints to finish 4th

 

The income generated in the championship/league 1 is nothing compared to the income in the Premier league!

[stev2001]

well, lets hope his plan is to get the family to pump circa £200m into the playing side of the club

 

And how will we pay that back? Or will it be a gift?

[stev2001]

about as much chance as we have to win the premier league....so yeah

 

Actually, winning the league is alot less likely than finishing in the top 4 statistically speaking.

[This Charming Man]

The income generated in the championship/league 1 is nothing compared to the income in the Premier league!

 

You do understand that this applies to the 19 other Premiership sides as well. I don't see all of them competing for CL football.

[stev2001]

The gap in points from 4th to 1st is usually huge, so that's not true.

 

I say we have a 0.01% chance of winning the title in the next 5 years, but our chances of finishing 4th are a massively better 0.05%.

 

5 times more likely then

[stev2001]

I love to see what odds ladbrokes would put on our chances of CL within 5 years. I bet it would only be around 100 - 1 due to the unknowns involved. Not worth a punt IMO though.

[Legod Third Coming]

What's this other promise that Cortese has made that you speak of? I'm dying to know. I'd hate to think you're just making things up like MLG.

 

What other promise?

[This Charming Man]

I love to see what odds ladbrokes would put on our chances of CL within 5 years. I bet it would only be around 100 - 1 due to the unknowns involved. Not worth a punt IMO though.

 

100-1 for Everton maybe. Think more 500/1000-1 for us. Another way of saying no f*cking chance.

[djharvey]

You do understand that this applies to the 19 other Premiership sides as well. I don't see all of them competing for CL football.

 

All 20 teams are competeing for CL football when the season starts. Some of them have a much better chance of achieving it than others. With the knowledge i have at present i would say we have a very slim chance, when the season kicks off we will have a better idea, as the season progresses again we will have a better idea.

We have a chance and i am sure that those who work for/run the club will try their best (with whatever resources we have)to take that chance. We supporters must also take the chance to do everything we can from the stands to assist. I know i will!

[Sour Mash]

What other promise?

 

And again. Exfeckingxactly.

 

Our Chairman has made a promise and delivered on it.

 

But somehow because he may be making another promise, he has no idea how to deliver it??

 

So that would explain how he became so succesful - knowing less than a few people on the internet with too much time on their hands. I must give that approach to business a try...

So what's this other promise? Or have you no idea?

[stev2001]

100-1 for Everton maybe. Think more 500/1000-1 for us. Another way of saying no f*cking chance.

 

Actual chance maybe but ladbrokes would not risk those odds on a club with billionaire owners, no debt etc over a 5 year period. 1000 - 1 odds, I'd chuck on £20 on the off chance. Would pay for a nice conservatory if it come in.

[Thedelldays]

Actual chance maybe but ladbrokes would not risk those odds on a club with billionaire owners, no debt etc over a 5 year period. 1000 - 1 odds, I'd chuck on £20 on the off chance. Would pay for a nice conservatory if it come in.

when people talk about saints..no on mentions billionaire owners as they are not going to go all sheik mansour on us.

 

what is wrong with people...have we only really got these fans in the last few years..?

[This Charming Man]

All 20 teams are competeing for CL football when the season starts. Some of them have a much better chance of achieving it than others. With the knowledge i have at present i would say we have a very slim chance, when the season kicks off we will have a better idea, as the season progresses again we will have a better idea.

We have a chance and i am sure that those who work for/run the club will try their best (with whatever resources we have)to take that chance. We supporters must also take the chance to do everything we can from the stands to assist. I know i will!

 

Don't be so utterly ridiculous.

 

Do you honestly think Norwich, Swansea, Bolton, Wolves etc were planning on making a challenge for a Top 4 spot?

 

Far bigger and better clubs like Liverpool and Everton are going to miss out this season. With potentially a combination of Spurs, Newcastle, Arsenal and Chelsea also missing out. Do you really think we're capable of pushing on past those teams in the next few years? If you do, you're mental.

[This Charming Man]

Actual chance maybe but ladbrokes would not risk those odds on a club with billionaire owners, no debt etc over a 5 year period. 1000 - 1 odds, I'd chuck on £20 on the off chance. Would pay for a nice conservatory if it come in.

 

Arsenal have no debt, what have they achieved in the last 5 years? Nothing for a club of their stature. Man Utd and Man City have debts in the hundreds of millions, they seem to have been doing ok, so I don't really see how that's relevant.

[JPTCount]

how has this asian income worked out for sunderland and bolton..?

 

it's all about the little things adding up to create one big thing, bolton have huge debt and a smaller stadium, and both have less potential fans and compete with other clubs for support

 

since buying in park, united rake it in over in s korea. lee's got dual nationality!

[Thedelldays]

it's all about the little things adding up to create one big thing, bolton have huge debt and a smaller stadium, and both have less potential fans and compete with other clubs for support

 

since buying in park, united rake it in over in s korea. lee's got dual nationality!

sunderland..?

 

how much have utd "raked" in over park..?

[stev2001]

when people talk about saints..no on mentions billionaire owners as they are not going to go all sheik mansour on us.

 

what is wrong with people...have we only really got these fans in the last few years..?

 

Hey I'm in the 'think we have no chance of CL footy' camp here. Just said a bookie wouldn't give us 1000-1 odds on it due to the unknowns including billionaire owners etc. FYI I've been a fan for a lot longer than most on here due to my age.

[CanadaSaint]

Many of the cynics' arguments are based on their belief that we will be completely unable to close the financial gap between ourselves and the big clubs, which ordinarily might be true.

 

That's now not a one-way journey, though. Just as we will be working to build our financial and fan base, so the big clubs will be coming back towards us as the financial fair play regulations come into effect.

 

They will change the whole ball game if they can be implemented effectively, and the greatest single assets in that kind of world - as many have identified - will be fiscal responsibility and a top flight academy.

 

With our catchment area, our academy and the people we have at the top, I'd say we're very well-placed to grow more than most.

[djharvey]

Don't be so utterly ridiculous.

 

Do you honestly think Norwich, Swansea, Bolton, Wolves etc were planning on making a challenge for a Top 4 spot?

 

Far bigger and better clubs like Liverpool and Everton are going to miss out this season. With potentially a combination of Spurs, Newcastle, Arsenal and Chelsea also missing out. Do you really think we're capable of pushing on past those teams in the next few years? If you do, you're mental.

 

We have a very slim chance. There, said it again!

[JPTCount]

sunderland..?

 

how much have utd "raked" in over park..?

 

Sunderland havnt exactly been stable of late, can't imagine they are that unified a group. I can't see anything like the gyan and Bruce fiascos happening here. and Chopra apparently signed to pay of gambling debts, nice character and ambition shown there

 

not sure exact figures but united claim they've got 27m fans there

[This Charming Man]

Many of the cynics' arguments are based on their belief that we will be completely unable to close the financial gap between ourselves and the big clubs, which ordinarily might be true.

 

That's now not a one-way journey, though. Just as we will be working to build our financial and fan base, so the big clubs will be coming back towards us as the financial fair play regulations come into effect.

 

They will change the whole ball game if they can be implemented effectively, and the greatest single assets in that kind of world - as many have identified - will be fiscal responsibility and a top flight academy.

 

With our catchment area, our academy and the people we have at the top, I'd say we're very well-placed to grow more than most.

 

The big clubs will still generate more money than us. This is down to their massive global fan base and ability to generate far superior match day revenue. Man Utd and Co. believe it or not have academies as well and they'll be able to attract the top youngsters from around the world.

[stev2001]

Arsenal have no debt, what have they achieved in the last 5 years? Nothing for a club of their stature. Man Utd and Man City have debts in the hundreds of millions, they seem to have been doing ok, so I don't really see how that's relevant.

 

Arsenal are a good example of a club achieving a lot. They are financially better run than most, consistently finishing in a CL spot and have still managed to build a very expensive stadium securing future revenues for years to come. Titles and cups are always going to be hard to get when competing against the massive loss making teams such as chelsea and man city. Arsenal is a good model all clubs to follow that don't have super rich owners happy to lose millions every year. The stadium cost has definitely not helped causing them to sell their best players and investing in youth.

Edited 8 May, 2012 by stev2001

[CanadaSaint]

The big clubs will still generate more money than us. This is down to their massive global fan base and ability to generate far superior match day revenue. Man Utd and Co. believe it or not have academies as well and they'll be able to attract the top youngsters from around the world.

 

No argument here with the point that they will always be better off than us financially, but I wouldn't overestimate how much their "massive global fan base" actually generates for them. Many of them never spend a penny that actually ends up in the big clubs' bank accounts.

 

And they can't sign all the best youngsters, can they? If anyone has proved that point over a number of years, it's us.

 

And, as stev2001 said in the post right below yours, Arsenal are doing it the right way - just as we will.