beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Interesting. Successful team apparently full of very average players... I thought it was pretty common knowledge that full back - both sides - is our weakest area, defensively. Going forward, fine, no problem, but in the premiership they are going to need to defend a hell of a lot better than at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I thought it was pretty common knowledge that full back - both sides - is our weakest area, defensively. Going forward, fine, no problem, but in the premiership they are going to need to defend a hell of a lot better than at present. Even more so if Nigel is going to carry on using the diamond as his favoured formation next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Wouldn't miss his 40 yard Hollywood balls to the opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 He's not going anywhere. But even if he did, he is extremely replaceable, Spurs are welcome to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stimp Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this is absolute bolloc ks. No chance in hell of this happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this is absolute bolloc ks. No chance in hell of this happening. We will be as big as spurs soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Is this the same fox that always sits off a wide player and stands and watches him cross the ball in rather than closing down......Does it time and time again..... Or perhaps the same Fox that, as I said, has to mark 2 players at once and would rather trust his CBs to clear a cross than let an extra oppo player run into the box unmarked. I'm not blaming Lallana by the way - I know full well the system we play leaves the fullbacks exposed, and that's the point. We have to cut them a bit of slack by taking that into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Or perhaps the same Fox that, as I said, has to mark 2 players at once and would rather trust his CBs to clear a cross than let an extra oppo player run into the box unmarked. I'm not blaming Lallana by the way - I know full well the system we play leaves the fullbacks exposed, and that's the point. We have to cut them a bit of slack by taking that into consideration. I think you have a touch of rose coloured glasses where Mr Fox is concerned. I seem to remember when we signed him the Burnley fans were split pretty much the same we Saints fans seem to be in so far as the common opinion was "great going forward, not so hot defensively". I might be wrong but Burnley haven't got a Lallana who played in front of Fox have they ? I havent seen a great deal of evidence of him marking 2 players at once.....one would be nice He has had some very good games for us, but he has also had some pretty horrendous ones. Doncaster away has been mentioned, I will gladly add Bristol City away to that. Yet away to Palace he was excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Yep, just checked. Third best defence in the league. Get rid of the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Sell. Won't cut it in Prem. loses his man too often. And we remember that goal, no? That one. Yes that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints4Prem Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 We must sit on different sides of the pitch. Fox puts in a decent cross but he does not seem to know how to defend and I'd love to see the stats on how many times he has passed to Lallana this season because I don't see many. He is in one position I think we need to strengthen as I don't think Harding will come up to scratch in the premier either. (By the way does anyone know how to change the user name as I seem to have grown out of mine!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Yep, just checked. Third best defence in the league. Get rid of the lot. Thats the second time the conversation has flown over your head isn't it ? We are discussing ONE player in ONE position and NOT the whole defence...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Thats the second time the conversation has flown over your head isn't it ? Fox is part of a defence (almost ever present) that is the third best in the league. A setlled back five is key to our success - at least if we know anything from football over the past 30 years. But apparently he's not up to it? That pretty much is the argument right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I thought it was pretty common knowledge that full back - both sides - is our weakest area, defensively. Going forward, fine, no problem, but in the premiership they are going to need to defend a hell of a lot better than at present. This is why we play the diamond and Morgan is so important, the full backs go forward and Morgan creates a 3 man defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Fox is part of a defence (almost ever present) that is the third best in the league. A setlled back five is key to our success - at least if we know anything from football over the past 30 years. But apparently he's not up to it? That pretty much is the argument right? Personally I dont think he will be up to The Premiership. I hope I'm wrong cos I dont think he will be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 He isn't very good. Let him go. Positionally bad, delivery good, NEVER stops the cross = bad defender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 He isn't very good. Let him go. Positionally bad, delivery good, NEVER stops the cross = bad defender He's a glorified winger ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 His game has improved. Very good player now! Top class delivery, wouldn't want him sold at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 He frustrates me. He has improved but seems to play within himself so definitely more to come. His positional play leaves a lot to be desired and he doesn't overlap enough. With coaching the faults could be ironed out and I think he could become a very good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 So I'm just looking around the Premier League at left back... Apart from Ashley Cole who is absolutely top class, we have players like Riise, Aruelio, Warnock, Baines, Bennett, Wilson, Taylor, Shorey... Now tell me - which of these does Fox fall so far behind?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 His positional play leaves a lot to be desired and he doesn't overlap enough. With coaching the faults could be ironed out and I think he could become a very good player. To be honest I'm quite surprised this hasn't already happened given he has been here virtually the whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Fox is part of a defence (almost ever present) that is the third best in the league. A setlled back five is key to our success - at least if we know anything from football over the past 30 years. But apparently he's not up to it? That pretty much is the argument right? How settled has our back 5 been this season? by my reckoning we've had 10 (11 if you count Corks cameo at RB, 12 if you count cup games were Dickson played) different players play in the back five at one time or another this season Fox didn't even get a start until 8 games into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 To be honest I'm quite surprised this hasn't already happened given he has been here virtually the whole season. Watch the video of all goals this season - 2 or 3 of them come from Fox overlapping. And that's not including the ones that didn't make it into the video, or the ones that didn't result in a goal. The "Fox doesn't overlap" view is just as huge a myth as the "Fox passes the ball into the opposite stand" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 To be honest I'm quite surprised this hasn't already happened given he has been here virtually the whole season. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt . Not all players can adapt or take an eternity (eg walcott) but I think that there is a bloody good player in Fox. The increased challenge of the prem may be all that he needs. Either way I'd hate to lose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 So I'm just looking around the Premier League at left back... Apart from Ashley Cole who is absolutely top class, we have players like Riise, Aruelio, Warnock, Baines, Bennett, Wilson, Taylor, Shorey... Now tell me - which of these does Fox fall so far behind?? All of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Watch the video of all goals this season - 2 or 3 of them come from Fox overlapping. And that's not including the ones that didn't make it into the video, or the ones that didn't result in a goal. The "Fox doesn't overlap" view is just as huge a myth as the "Fox passes the ball into the opposite stand" one. I'm not questioning his attacking play. I'm talking about his defensive ability and therefore his positional play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I think he could do quite well in the Prem. He obviously has ability. I've always quite admired him since his complete "so what?" approach when the side stands at Fratton were giving him endless stick when he was taking throw-ins etc. Wasn't intimidated in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Interesting. Successful team apparently full of very average players... I don't think anyone is saying we have a team full of average players. Only Fox is being discussed here. However, no team from the Championship will do well going up to the Prem without strengthening the team at all, and for me, left back is one of our weaker spots (along with right back and right midfield). I would say that Nigel Adkins won't replace Fox as he is one of his signings, so the only chance of us getting a new left back is if Spurs or someone else come in for him and he decides to go. And actually, I'd like to see us keep Fox as decent cover for left back and left midfield, get rid of Harding and Holmes, and bring in a top quality left back who knows how to defend. Doubt that will happen though. And it won't be the end of the world as long as we strengthen in other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I'd be quite pleased if we sold him, we could find a much better replacement for the sort of money we'd want, and it's not like he defends much. In fairness most of our defence Kelvin excepted seemed to spend more time in the oppos half of the pitch - that will change next season surely otherwise its gonna be a short stay in the Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins217 Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 All of them You missed Assou-ekoto the current Spurs left back. Probably one of their unsung heroes given that Bale seems to have an absolute licence!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 In fairness most of our defence Kelvin excepted seemed to spend more time in the oppos half of the pitch - that will change next season surely otherwise its gonna be a short stay in the Prem Going out in a blaze of glory, winning loads of friends for our all out attacking football, just like Blackpool last season...I could live with that (not sure NC would agree with me though ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catkins217 Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Going out in a blaze of glory, winning loads of friends for our all out attacking football, just like Blackpool last season...I could live with that (not sure NC would agree with me though ) Swansea have played some 'pretty' football and done OK. We need the right mx of players and a touch of quality added and we'll be alright. Adkins is a quiet man but do not underestimate the prep work he does. I think we'll be OK as long as the investment in the squad is positive and constructive and I doubt nothing less from the professional management we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not On My Watch Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 Full backs aren't meant to sit on the wingers or they would leave too much space to put balls between themselves and the centre backs. I think he's a fine player who will do a decent job in the premier league. Sure, he may struggle against some of the better wingers but so do most full backs, sometimes even Cole, Enrique etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 3 May, 2012 Share Posted 3 May, 2012 I served him when I was working as a waiter in Eastleigh last year. On that basis, I like him. However, that was the day before that appalling Leicester home defeat, and I did tell him to "stick it to them tomorrow!"... Obviously he doesn't care about us fans On a serious note, I do rate Fox. He seems to have added a bit more attacking play to his game recently, bursting into the box when Lallana holds the ball up wide in a similar way to how Harding attacks. For people talking about his marking as well, Zaha barely got a sniff at the Palace away game when Fox was marking him, I think he only got beaten once and that was when Zaha already had a yard on him, but then Fox came back to cover the cross. I struggle to think of any British left backs who would come to us and are better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Johnson Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 I don't believe some of what I'm reading. A left back that has contributed nearly 15 assists this year and has performed well in his position (effectively a wingback) is being rubbished and recommended for transfer? Like Lallana was being written off 3 years ago... and the rest. Like any player, he's not perfect but I'd doubt we'd find anyone else as good and who'd fit into our style for whatever we would sell him for. And he'll probably get better, too. PS: People who say Lallana doesn't cover Fox are totally incorrect. Our system leaves our fullbacks exposed, not the players in front of them. And Lallana works feckin' hard. Absoultely spot on, I'm shocked at the amount of people that get on Foxs back for not getting getting forward more, but then with Lallana drifting inside to support the front two he's hardly going to burst forward EVERYTIME! That in turn leaves him exposed when we're hit on the break, that's the system we play and the chance we take. We wouldnt have scored as many goals as we have this season if it weren't the case. There are times when Foxs distrubition can be critisied but he's premier league quailty with out a doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 With such a **** left back it's amazing we were in the top 2 all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 He does leave the winger with so much room and the pacey lad from Middlesborough, gave him a terrible time on TV recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 With such a **** left back it's amazing we were in the top 2 all season. Well he's quite clearly not ****, which is why we were in the top 2 all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 I think he is defensively suspect, doesn't support Lallana that well (in the way that Richardson does with whoever plays on the right of midfield) and is prone to playing "Hollywood balls" that often don't work out. If we can find a decent replacement I wouldn't mind him going, but I have no idea who that would be! This. And it annoys me that somehow he feels that he is the better person to take a free kick within range of goal than Lambert. I can't remember him scoring from one yet. We can do better than him now we're in the Premiership. He's been caught out enough times by Championship players, so many of the Premiership wingers will skin him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 Cool. Guly and Fonte have a new rival for the title of Fans Scapegoat for the coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torsaint Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 Classic example of his tendency to be drawn into the middle leaving the winger unmarked was in the first few minutes against Coventry. We were lucky to get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 Interesting. Successful team apparently full of very average players... We were very successful defensively (only Reading did better) but I'd still say you can't stand still in this game and our defence will require further strengthening. The record shows we conceded (exactly) a goal a game in the NPC this season, which is by no means a terrible stat given just how frequently we scored. But lets face it, we're unlikely to be as free-scoring next season, and the Premier League can be relied upon to ruthlessly expose any defence weakness. If in theory we were to play the same first choice defence next season, then conceding maybe 1.5 goals per game (on average of course) means we would probably end up somewhere in the bottom 5 or 6 places. Too close for comfort for me. As for Danny Fox .... well lets just say I'd really rather he was second choice LB next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 I'm a fan of Fox, but I would be very surprised to see Spurs go in for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 We're going to have to get used to this bullsh*t again, sadly. Nevertheless, NC is not Rupert Lowe; I trust him to keep players on-side and focused, and fight off all this crap, or to make the approaching club pay through the f**king nose like L'Arse did for AOC, in which case we'll be quids-in to find an equal or better replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 Can't see the Spurs thing myself. He's a good player I think. Bear in mind, given how attacking we've been this season, he was bound to beleft without cover on occasion. We're likely to be much less adventurous next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 4 May, 2012 Author Share Posted 4 May, 2012 We were very successful defensively (only Reading did better) but I'd still say you can't stand still in this game and our defence will require further strengthening. The record shows we conceded (exactly) a goal a game in the NPC this season, which is by no means a terrible stat given just how frequently we scored. But lets face it, we're unlikely to be as free-scoring next season, and the Premier League can be relied upon to ruthlessly expose any defence weakness. If in theory we were to play the same first choice defence next season, then conceding maybe 1.5 goals per game (on average of course) means we would probably end up somewhere in the bottom 5 or 6 places. Too close for comfort for me. As for Danny Fox .... well lets just say I'd really rather he was second choice LB next season. IMHO the FIRST DEFENSIVE priority is to find a CB BETTER than Jose AND Jos. Good as they are we still need better there. The FIRST signing priority though HAS to be a proper RM who could also play LM if Adam is out for any time The SECOND priority is to fnd a CM who is BETTER than Morgan ad Cork the THIRD priority has to be finding that CB The FOURTH priority has to be finding a 4th striker (or do we expect DC LB & Guly to be the answer in the PL?) THEN we probably need a new RB Which, IMHO, puts the LB slot pretty far down the list, and I am happy to have Fox starting there next season Our SQUAD in the PL will be better than the last time we were there (hell I'd far rather have Butterfield at RB than Telfer!), BUT we need to bring the right quality with the right Mind Set and of course PACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 I'm sure Spurs are desperate for a LB that hasn't beat a player with the ball in his entire career, he does a job for us but that's about it. Spurs whole game is about using their pace out wide. Hence why they have Essou-Akotto and Walker bombing on supprting Bale and Lennon on every attack. He's the complete opposite of the type of LB they would want. Anyway, carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolSaint Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 Bring back wayne bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 4 May, 2012 Share Posted 4 May, 2012 I think people totally underestimate just how good he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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