New Kits 2012-13

[Turkish]

The new kit is amazing.

[JPTCount]

i can't believe this is still going

 

The new kit is amazing.

 

well, maybe i can...

[Colinjb]

Where is the option for epl badges in the online store?

 

Take it to Sports Direct instead and get them for £5, save a couple of quid.

[besty]

Take it to Sports Direct instead and get them for £5, save a couple of quid.

 

I'm based in Melbourne so would ideally like it delivered to my door with badges

[Colinjb]

I'm based in Melbourne so would ideally like it delivered to my door with badges

 

If you telephone the store they will be able to take the order including premiership badges. It is a bit daft there isn't the option online, although I suspect there wasn't the demand for the badges while we were in the Football League!

 

If all else fails though, ebay have some available. I have applied some with a domestic iron before and they have been absolutely fine.

Edited 3 July, 2012 by Colinjb

[SW11_Saint]

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to point out what I'm missing about football culture. According to some branches of football culture, home shirts are only worn to games by kids and nonces anyway. Some people wouldn't be seen dead at a football game wearing a replica shirt.

 

I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me why a football shirt is upsetting you so much. What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to? Do us a favour and let us know. It's very difficult to see how far the club have strayed from football culture when it is so ill-defined and is sharing copy with playground put-downs.

 

I'm certainly not someone who'll blindly support every decision the club has ever made, but moaning about this after the last couple of seasons seems bloody insane imo. It's like a kid being given the best Christmas present ever and whining that he doesn't like the colour. Bit of perspective, maybe?

Certainly, I would be delighted to.

 

Unfortunately, your post again emphasise your lack of understanding in this area, so my efforts may be somewhat futile, and to be honest, there is no guarantee of me a good job of it either - football culture being somewhat indefinable (in the same way that 'culture' itself is) – it can mean different things to different people.

 

Which brings me to my first point - you seem to be under the misapprehension that football culture is one tangible 'thing'; a set of rules or precedents to be followed ("What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?"). It is actually the opposite of a set of rules - a free form, organic mix of thoughts, feelings, passions, trends, fashions, language, song, even art. Again, it's just "culture" and as difficult to pin down or define as you might expect.

 

But in this context of course it is all related to one thing - football. Moreover, for each club it is about their football club - their team, their community, their fellow fans, their rivalries, their songs, their history, their colours, their badge, and yes, their kit.. All of this - this intra-club culture - gives a club its personality, its identity. And this identity is important. It's very important. And a clubs colours are massively important part of that identity. They let each ‘soccer tribe’ know who you are, and what you stand for. It gives cultural signals.

 

As fans we “nail our colours to the mast”. We want our players to “play for the shirt”. Those rather clichéd statements means something in football culture. Celtic fans live and breathe the green and white, they are proud of their distinctive identity, proud of the hoops. Likewise Man Utd’s Red shirts, white shorts, black socks makes a statement – it instantly says “Man Utd” (even if they have nasty variations in the shirt like this season’s awful gingham print). Barcelona and Norwich are instantly identified by their livery. The shirt, the kit, tell people who you are. It is a symbol of your culture.

 

You give the analogy of a child crying over their best/favourite toy not being the colour they like. Again you are illustrating that you don’t “get it”. You are mistaking Saints as something disposable, like a burger, a car or a toy. It isn’t. Well it isn’t for me. If you are a true fan – and I have no doubt that you are - then it is something more permanent in your life. And again, that identity, those colours – the red, white and black – mean something. Or they should do. I can accept pretty much any variation – the Rank Xerox kit is still one of my favourites. I loved the Sash kit and all it commemorated too. I can live without stripes for a season if I have to, but I do want to have a kit that suggests “Saints” to me. That reinforces that identity to the rest of the world. That represents that culture. Our culture.

 

And I have to say in the last few years I think the club, and Nigel Adkins, have done a fantastic job in reinvigorating and enhancing that culture. All the “together as one” stuff. I love it. Which probably makes this move to the all red “Liverpool” kit all the more disappointing. It doesn’t crush our culture, of course not, it just diminishes it a little. And hopefully for just for a year, unless a more worrying longer-term ‘rebranding’ exercise is going on.

 

As many have pointed out to me, I have lost this battle. Not that there ever was one - the Chinese sweatshop kids fingers had bled a long time before we got to see our “all red Premier League kit” (like we’ve never been there before!). You and other fans, although a minority, are happy about the move. I am not, and as a season ticket holder, and a fan of over 40 years, I do feel I have the right to state my vehement dislike of our move away from the red and white shirt and the black shorts. In my view it just move us away from our tradition, our culture.

 

That’s it.

 

COYS!

 

PS I was amazed to see you actually live in Liverpool, a City steeped in football culture and tradition, given your seeming naivety in this area.

[Colinjb]

Certainly, I would be delighted to.

 

Unfortunately, your post again emphasise your lack of understanding in this area, so my efforts may be somewhat futile, and to be honest, there is no guarantee of me a good job of it either - football culture being somewhat indefinable (in the same way that 'culture' itself is) – it can mean different things to different people.

 

Which brings me to my first point - you seem to be under the misapprehension that football culture is one tangible 'thing'; a set of rules or precedents to be followed ("What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?"). It is actually the opposite of a set of rules - a free form, organic mix of thoughts, feelings, passions, trends, fashions, language, song, even art. Again, it's just "culture" and as difficult to pin down or define as you might expect.

 

But in this context of course it is all related to one thing - football. Moreover, for each club it is about their football club - their team, their community, their fellow fans, their rivalries, their songs, their history, their colours, their badge, and yes, their kit.. All of this - this intra-club culture - gives a club its personality, its identity. And this identity is important. It's very important. And a clubs colours are massively important part of that identity. They let each ‘soccer tribe’ know who you are, and what you stand for. It gives cultural signals.

 

As fans we “nail our colours to the mast”. We want our players to “play for the shirt”. Those rather clichéd statements means something in football culture. Celtic fans live and breathe the green and white, they are proud of their distinctive identity, proud of the hoops. Likewise Man Utd’s Red shirts, white shorts, black socks makes a statement – it instantly says “Man Utd” (even if they have nasty variations in the shirt like this season’s awful gingham print). Barcelona and Norwich are instantly identified by their livery. The shirt, the kit, tell people who you are. It is a symbol of your culture.

 

You give the analogy of a child crying over their best/favourite toy not being the colour they like. Again you are illustrating that you don’t “get it”. You are mistaking Saints as something disposable, like a burger, a car or a toy. It isn’t. Well it isn’t for me. If you are a true fan – and I have no doubt that you are - then it is something more permanent in your life. And again, that identity, those colours – the red, white and black – mean something. Or they should do. I can accept pretty much any variation – the Rank Xerox kit is still one of my favourites. I loved the Sash kit and all it commemorated too. I can live without stripes for a season if I have to, but I do want to have a kit that suggests “Saints” to me. That reinforces that identity to the rest of the world. That represents that culture. Our culture.

 

And I have to say in the last few years I think the club, and Nigel Adkins, have done a fantastic job in reinvigorating and enhancing that culture. All the “together as one” stuff. I love it. Which probably makes this move to the all red “Liverpool” kit all the more disappointing. It doesn’t crush our culture, of course not, it just diminishes it a little. And hopefully for just for a year, unless a more worrying longer-term ‘rebranding’ exercise is going on.

 

As many have pointed out to me, I have lost this battle. Not that there ever was one - the Chinese sweatshop kids fingers had bled a long time before we got to see our “all red Premier League kit” (like we’ve never been there before!). You and other fans, although a minority, are happy about the move. I am not, and as a season ticket holder, and a fan of over 40 years, I do feel I have the right to state my vehement dislike of our move away from the red and white shirt and the black shorts. In my view it just move us away from our tradition, our culture.

 

That’s it.

 

COYS!

 

PS I was amazed to see you actually live in Liverpool, a City steeped in football culture and tradition, given your seeming naivety in this area.

 

That's a superb summary of feelings I also have on the matter.

 

It works as a compliment to the blog I have recently written about why specifically the new strip doesn't fit the 'Southampton' identity.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/entry.php?81-Calm-Down!-Calm-Down! #Shamelessselfpromotion

[SW11_Saint]

Brilliant debating skills, CB Fry. The Lounge has got nothing on you, kid

That you think "The Lounge" is the benchmark for debating skill has just made my day...

[alpine_saint]

Great post, SW11_Saint

 

IMO, as Mr. Cortese has grown into his job as CEO of Saints, he has indicated a desire, if not determination to break with many elements of our history and tradition. For example, his attitude towards ex-players and the memory of Ted Bates in general. This sometimes makes uncomfortable reading.

 

However, if it is a straight choice of "clubs future" against "clubs past" and he thinks that such changes and breaks with tradition somehow offer the opportunity of a more secure and successful future, then I with a heavy heart accept that. Having a club to visit is better than sitting at home with memories.

 

Having said that, I am struggling with how exactly playing looking like mid-80s Liverpool throw-backs achieves this. Any one with an idea ??

Edited 3 July, 2012 by alpine_saint

[St Louis]

Certainly, I would be delighted to.

 

Unfortunately, your post again emphasise your lack of understanding in this area, so my efforts may be somewhat futile, and to be honest, there is no guarantee of me a good job of it either - football culture being somewhat indefinable (in the same way that 'culture' itself is) – it can mean different things to different people.

 

Which brings me to my first point - you seem to be under the misapprehension that football culture is one tangible 'thing'; a set of rules or precedents to be followed ("What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?"). It is actually the opposite of a set of rules - a free form, organic mix of thoughts, feelings, passions, trends, fashions, language, song, even art. Again, it's just "culture" and as difficult to pin down or define as you might expect.

 

But in this context of course it is all related to one thing - football. Moreover, for each club it is about their football club - their team, their community, their fellow fans, their rivalries, their songs, their history, their colours, their badge, and yes, their kit.. All of this - this intra-club culture - gives a club its personality, its identity. And this identity is important. It's very important. And a clubs colours are massively important part of that identity. They let each ‘soccer tribe’ know who you are, and what you stand for. It gives cultural signals.

 

As fans we “nail our colours to the mast”. We want our players to “play for the shirt”. Those rather clichéd statements means something in football culture. Celtic fans live and breathe the green and white, they are proud of their distinctive identity, proud of the hoops. Likewise Man Utd’s Red shirts, white shorts, black socks makes a statement – it instantly says “Man Utd” (even if they have nasty variations in the shirt like this season’s awful gingham print). Barcelona and Norwich are instantly identified by their livery. The shirt, the kit, tell people who you are. It is a symbol of your culture.

 

You give the analogy of a child crying over their best/favourite toy not being the colour they like. Again you are illustrating that you don’t “get it”. You are mistaking Saints as something disposable, like a burger, a car or a toy. It isn’t. Well it isn’t for me. If you are a true fan – and I have no doubt that you are - then it is something more permanent in your life. And again, that identity, those colours – the red, white and black – mean something. Or they should do. I can accept pretty much any variation – the Rank Xerox kit is still one of my favourites. I loved the Sash kit and all it commemorated too. I can live without stripes for a season if I have to, but I do want to have a kit that suggests “Saints” to me. That reinforces that identity to the rest of the world. That represents that culture. Our culture.

 

And I have to say in the last few years I think the club, and Nigel Adkins, have done a fantastic job in reinvigorating and enhancing that culture. All the “together as one” stuff. I love it. Which probably makes this move to the all red “Liverpool” kit all the more disappointing. It doesn’t crush our culture, of course not, it just diminishes it a little. And hopefully for just for a year, unless a more worrying longer-term ‘rebranding’ exercise is going on.

 

As many have pointed out to me, I have lost this battle. Not that there ever was one - the Chinese sweatshop kids fingers had bled a long time before we got to see our “all red Premier League kit” (like we’ve never been there before!). You and other fans, although a minority, are happy about the move. I am not, and as a season ticket holder, and a fan of over 40 years, I do feel I have the right to state my vehement dislike of our move away from the red and white shirt and the black shorts. In my view it just move us away from our tradition, our culture.

 

That’s it.

 

COYS!

 

PS I was amazed to see you actually live in Liverpool, a City steeped in football culture and tradition, given your seeming naivety in this area.

 

Absolutely spot on!

 

My feelings articulated better than I ever could!

 

However, I am still more excited than I've ever been about a forthcoming season, so the glass is still half full for me!

[Fan The Flames]

If this kit is a best seller how does that affect the debate.

[Thedelldays]

If this kit is a best seller how does that affect the debate.

it won't alter the debate...it will be the best seller only because of the premier league effect.

which I now is a factor for sure..but if is everything saints not..and many on here stating they will not be buying, surely that will be replicated outside of SWF world..?

 

 

that, or it will be a case of the club making it up

[The Kraken]

If this kit is a best seller how does that affect the debate.

 

Being as the debate is (or was) "Do you like the new kit?", I'd guess it doesn't. It's still a personal choice, isn't it? If it sells more than the sash kit, I'll still think its a poor Saints kit.

[alpine_saint]

Being as the debate is (or was) "Do you like the new kit?", I'd guess it doesn't. It's still a personal choice, isn't it? If it sells more than the sash kit, I'll still think its a poor Saints kit.

 

It wont sell more thant the sash kit.

[The Kraken]

It wont sell more thant the sash kit.

 

I know.

[Hatch]

Surely adding the Premier League badges makes the shirt even worse.

 

Something else I don't get.

[BlakeySFC]

Surely adding the Premier League badges makes the shirt even worse.

 

Something else I don't get.

 

Alot of Saints fans (myself included) are extremely proud to be back in the PL. So the PL patches are a way of showing the world that we're now Premier League and proud of it.

[Cestrian Saint]

The premier league is nothing to be proud of. It's a money making exercise that's completely lost it's way and turned football into some horrible corporate sport where greedy players with huge egos & no loyalty demand unrealistic wages. The average man in the street can no longer afford to take his family to games because ticket prices have been forced up to pay for pretty boy players to underperform week after week.

The new kit is yet another example of money being more important than tradition.

[Fan The Flames]

Being as the debate is (or was) "Do you like the new kit?", I'd guess it doesn't. It's still a personal choice, isn't it? If it sells more than the sash kit, I'll still think its a poor Saints kit.

 

Granted I haven't read all 50 pages but the thread had moved on from 'like it' to 'tradition, football culture and identity'.

[alpine_saint]

The premier league is nothing to be proud of. It's a money making exercise that's completely lost it's way and turned football into some horrible corporate sport where greedy players with huge egos & no loyalty demand unrealistic wages. The average man in the street can no longer afford to take his family to games because ticket prices have been forced up to pay for pretty boy players to underperform week after week.

The new kit is yet another example of money being more important than tradition.

 

A striped kit would have been just as expensive.

 

In fact, by going for the Phil Neal's Tw*t XI look , Umbro and SFC have most likely cut their replica kit revenue and saved us money..

[BlakeySFC]

The premier league is nothing to be proud of. It's a money making exercise that's completely lost it's way and turned football into some horrible corporate sport where greedy players with huge egos & no loyalty demand unrealistic wages. The average man in the street can no longer afford to take his family to games because ticket prices have been forced up to pay for pretty boy players to underperform week after week.

The new kit is yet another example of money being more important than tradition.

 

The Premier League, Serie A, La Liga and the Bundesliga are equally responsible from monetising football. Like it or not the Premier League is one of the best leagues in the world, and a place where every player regardless of nationality would love to play it in at some point of his career.

 

Saints belong in the Premier League, and after 7 long, hard, devastating years outside the top-flight I'm incredibly proud that my football club had the guile, ambition and endeavour to get back there last season.

 

That's what the PL patches represent to me, the endeavour, struggle and effort the players put in last year to be able to put those PL patches on their arm. I do the same because I'm so proud of where my club has come from in 3 short years since Markus took us over.

[Colinjb]

The premier league is nothing to be proud of. It's a money making exercise that's completely lost it's way and turned football into some horrible corporate sport where greedy players with huge egos & no loyalty demand unrealistic wages. The average man in the street can no longer afford to take his family to games because ticket prices have been forced up to pay for pretty boy players to underperform week after week.

The new kit is yet another example of money being more important than tradition.

 

Then what on earth have we been competing for over the last seven years? To be a placeholder? To be an also ran?

[The Kraken]

Then what on earth have we been competing for over the last seven years? To be a placeholder? To be an also ran?

 

Welcome back to the Premier League.

[Griffo]

The premier league is nothing to be proud of. It's a money making exercise that's completely lost it's way and turned football into some horrible corporate sport where greedy players with huge egos & no loyalty demand unrealistic wages. The average man in the street can no longer afford to take his family to games because ticket prices have been forced up to pay for pretty boy players to underperform week after week.

The new kit is yet another example of money being more important than tradition.

 

[pap]

Well, we'll ignore the insults for the time being - because you've spent the time to fully state your position. Fair play to you for that. I actually have something substantive to reply to now, something I couldn't have said earlier.

 

Unfortunately, your post again emphasise your lack of understanding in this area, so my efforts may be somewhat futile, and to be honest, there is no guarantee of me a good job of it either - football culture being somewhat indefinable (in the same way that 'culture' itself is) – it can mean different things to different people.

 

Hurrah! Someone gets it. Thank you for pointing out that "you don't understand football culture" is an entirely subjective thing to say.

 

Not that it needed saying, imo. There have been enough threads on here where someone (normally Turkish) offers up an aspect of footy culture as the norm, only to be roundly rebuffed by a lot of people with a conflicting opinion.

 

Which brings me to my first point - you seem to be under the misapprehension that football culture is one tangible 'thing'; a set of rules or precedents to be followed ("What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?"). It is actually the opposite of a set of rules - a free form, organic mix of thoughts, feelings, passions, trends, fashions, language, song, even art. Again, it's just "culture" and as difficult to pin down or define as you might expect.

 

I think we've covered this. My initial point that was football culture was subjective, something you've agreed to.

 

Secondly, the clue is pretty much in what I wrote. How on Earth do you take "which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?" to mean:-

 

"Hallo. My name is pap. I am a simple boy who believes that there is only one inviolable football culture"?

 

Hmm. I might be extrapolating something here, but if I'm asking "which version" it's pretty obvious that I know there are several takes on what "football culture" is. You either didn't read what I was saying or scuppered your own point within the same paragraph.

 

But in this context of course it is all related to one thing - football. Moreover, for each club it is about their football club - their team, their community, their fellow fans, their rivalries, their songs, their history, their colours, their badge, and yes, their kit.. All of this - this intra-club culture - gives a club its personality, its identity. And this identity is important. It's very important. And a clubs colours are massively important part of that identity. They let each ‘soccer tribe’ know who you are, and what you stand for. It gives cultural signals.

 

I appreciate your repeated statements that it is important. Problem for you is that there are a ton of fans who think the exact opposite. I've got no problem wearing a replica shirt to a home game. My best mate won't wear one at all - home or away. Other mates will only wear them to away games.

 

The rest of your argument here is emotive, but let's face it, most of it is subjective waffle and some of it is outright bolox.

 

"Know what you stand for"? What a laugh. Have you read some of the posts on here? We all stand for different things and spend thousands of words arguing our respective cases. That doesn't suggest to me that we all stand for the same thing.

 

In truth, the only thing that unites us is that we all support Southampton FC.

 

As fans we “nail our colours to the mast”. We want our players to “play for the shirt”. Those rather clichéd statements means something in football culture. Celtic fans live and breathe the green and white, they are proud of their distinctive identity, proud of the hoops. Likewise Man Utd’s Red shirts, white shorts, black socks makes a statement – it instantly says “Man Utd” (even if they have nasty variations in the shirt like this season’s awful gingham print). Barcelona and Norwich are instantly identified by their livery. The shirt, the kit, tell people who you are. It is a symbol of your culture.

 

You can talk about the brand of Barcelona or Man United's kit as much as you want, but we both know that shirt colour has got bugger all to do with it. People like those teams because they are massively successful. What would damage them more? Changing their home strip or relegation?

 

You give the analogy of a child crying over their best/favourite toy not being the colour they like. Again you are illustrating that you don’t “get it”. You are mistaking Saints as something disposable, like a burger, a car or a toy. It isn’t. Well it isn’t for me. If you are a true fan – and I have no doubt that you are - then it is something more permanent in your life. And again, that identity, those colours – the red, white and black – mean something. Or they should do. I can accept pretty much any variation – the Rank Xerox kit is still one of my favourites. I loved the Sash kit and all it commemorated too. I can live without stripes for a season if I have to, but I do want to have a kit that suggests “Saints” to me. That reinforces that identity to the rest of the world. That represents that culture. Our culture.

 

I'm not mistaking the team as disposable. If that were remotely true, I'd have disposed of them in 1994 when I moved to Liverpool. If we'd have gone under, I could not have supported another team.

 

What I am saying is that the shirt isn't that important. It has never been a factor in why I support Saints. If they'd have done a Cardiff on us I might have been a bit miffed at such an obvious break with tradition, but this isn't that. We're still in our own colours, home and away.

 

You said you like the Xerox shirt. Snap. A lot of us do. That shirt was only possible because we strayed from the red and white stripe formula. Certainly wouldn't see it behind a deli counter. It has become one of the most iconic shirts of our history, and if we'd been as slavish about strict red and white stripes in 1979, you and I wouldn't have a kit that we both so strongly identify with.

 

This new shirt has the exact same potential with our younger fans now.

 

And I have to say in the last few years I think the club, and Nigel Adkins, have done a fantastic job in reinvigorating and enhancing that culture. All the “together as one” stuff. I love it. Which probably makes this move to the all red “Liverpool” kit all the more disappointing. It doesn’t crush our culture, of course not, it just diminishes it a little. And hopefully for just for a year, unless a more worrying longer-term ‘rebranding’ exercise is going on.

 

I share your view about Adkin's success at the club, and I hope that the brilliant team ethic becomes an indelible artefact of the club. It has been excellent to see - a far cry from the chop-change of old.

 

I'm not going to allay your rebranding fears. I think it's possible that we will do that. Where we differ is that I'm not entirely sure it's a bad thing. With this shirt, I think they've respected our past traditions while trying something new.

 

As many have pointed out to me, I have lost this battle. Not that there ever was one - the Chinese sweatshop kids fingers had bled a long time before we got to see our “all red Premier League kit” (like we’ve never been there before!). You and other fans, although a minority, are happy about the move. I am not, and as a season ticket holder, and a fan of over 40 years, I do feel I have the right to state my vehement dislike of our move away from the red and white shirt and the black shorts. In my view it just move us away from our tradition, our culture.

 

Much respect to you for the support you have shown the club over the years, and of course you have the right to state your vehement dislike of the new setup.

 

PS I was amazed to see you actually live in Liverpool, a City steeped in football culture and tradition, given your seeming naivety in this area.

 

And considerably less respect for this little baby

 

The only knowledge I'm really lacking here is what's kicking around your head when you decide that the entire world feels the same way you do. Perhaps it is a folly of my relative youth, but I'm reasonably able to accommodate other people's points of view, including yours, without having to resort to name-calling or accusations of naivety.

 

Fair play to you. Good luck to you. Hope next year's shirt is more to your liking.

[The Kraken]

Too long; didn't read.

[Bearsy]

I read it! I found it quite interestings!

[trousers]

Well, we'll ignore the insults for the time being - because you've spent the time to fully state your position. Fair play to you for that. I actually have something substantive to reply to now, something I couldn't have said earlier.

 

 

 

Hurrah! Someone gets it. Thank you for pointing out that "you don't understand football culture" is an entirely subjective thing to say.

 

Not that it needed saying, imo. There have been enough threads on here where someone (normally Turkish) offers up an aspect of footy culture as the norm, only to be roundly rebuffed by a lot of people with a conflicting opinion.

 

 

 

I think we've covered this. My initial point that was football culture was subjective, something you've agreed to.

 

Secondly, the clue is pretty much in what I wrote. How on Earth do you take "which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?" to mean:-

 

"Hallo. My name is pap. I am a simple boy who believes that there is only one inviolable football culture"?

 

Hmm. I might be extrapolating something here, but if I'm asking "which version" it's pretty obvious that I know there are several takes on what "football culture" is. You either didn't read what I was saying or scuppered your own point within the same paragraph.

 

 

 

I appreciate your repeated statements that it is important. Problem for you is that there are a ton of fans who think the exact opposite. I've got no problem wearing a replica shirt to a home game. My best mate won't wear one at all - home or away. Other mates will only wear them to away games.

 

The rest of your argument here is emotive, but let's face it, most of it is subjective waffle and some of it is outright bolox.

 

"Know what you stand for"? What a laugh. Have you read some of the posts on here? We all stand for different things and spend thousands of words arguing our respective cases. That doesn't suggest to me that we all stand for the same thing.

 

In truth, the only thing that unites us is that we all support Southampton FC.

 

 

 

You can talk about the brand of Barcelona or Man United's kit as much as you want, but we both know that shirt colour has got bugger all to do with it. People like those teams because they are massively successful. What would damage them more? Changing their home strip or relegation?

 

 

 

I'm not mistaking the team as disposable. If that were remotely true, I'd have disposed of them in 1994 when I moved to Liverpool. If we'd have gone under, I could not have supported another team.

 

What I am saying is that the shirt isn't that important. It has never been a factor in why I support Saints. If they'd have done a Cardiff on us I might have been a bit miffed at such an obvious break with tradition, but this isn't that. We're still in our own colours, home and away.

 

You said you like the Xerox shirt. Snap. A lot of us do. That shirt was only possible because we strayed from the red and white stripe formula. Certainly wouldn't see it behind a deli counter. It has become one of the most iconic shirts of our history, and if we'd been as slavish about strict red and white stripes in 1979, you and I wouldn't have a kit that we both so strongly identify with.

 

This new shirt has the exact same potential with our younger fans now.

 

 

 

I share your view about Adkin's success at the club, and I hope that the brilliant team ethic becomes an indelible artefact of the club. It has been excellent to see - a far cry from the chop-change of old.

 

I'm not going to allay your rebranding fears. I think it's possible that we will do that. Where we differ is that I'm not entirely sure it's a bad thing. With this shirt, I think they've respected our past traditions while trying something new.

 

 

 

Much respect to you for the support you have shown the club over the years, and of course you have the right to state your vehement dislike of the new setup.

 

 

 

And considerably less respect for this little baby

 

The only knowledge I'm really lacking here is what's kicking around your head when you decide that the entire world feels the same way you do. Perhaps it is a folly of my relative youth, but I'm reasonably able to accommodate other people's points of view, including yours, without having to resort to name-calling or accusations of naivety.

 

Fair play to you. Good luck to you. Hope next year's shirt is more to your liking.

 

Top post sir

[pap]

Too long; didn't read.

 

To be fair, it is in bite sized chunks*

 

*for a T-Rex

[Saint Billy]

Bloody hell, I cannot believe how much grief there is about the new kit. I am sure the stripes will return sometime for those that will miss it so dont despair.

 

I am not worried about tradition because apart from 76 there is not that much to be honest. We are not a famous club and so we are also not famous for wearing a striped kit. This is a new saints with a foreign owner and we have to accept that there will be changes and as far as I am concerned we could wear purple because we are still in existence and back in the Prem which is all down to our Swiss owners and NC.

 

I am 55 btw and have watched saints since I was able to stand.

[Toadhall Saint]

Never worn one and in all likelihood never will. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion and I'm glad to say I'm with the traditionalist on this one. The new kit is not really my cup of tea.

[SW11_Saint]

Well, we'll ignore the insults for the time being - because you've spent the time to fully state your position. Fair play to you for that. I actually have something substantive to reply to now, something I couldn't have said earlier.

....

Fair play to you. Good luck to you. Hope next year's shirt is more to your liking.

Okay, no point me coming back tit-for-tat but I am still not sure you have really got the gist of what I was trying to say. That might be my fault, it might be yours, but no point dwelling on it.

 

The mock hurt at my comments - fairly innocuous I thought - doesn't wash though, especially given your patronising posts to me, CBFry etc. (got to be able to take it was well as give it fella!). I think you just don't "get it" you think I talk "subjective waffle" and /or "outright bolox" - doubt we'll change each others minds, so we'll leave it there!

 

I do want to clear up a couple of points though.

 

My only criteria for a "good" kit is (a) good design and (b) something that speaks to our identity/tradition. That is why I liked the Rank Xerox kit -it is red, white and BLACK - the colour palette most closely associated with the club. I have no problem with straying from stripes now and then, though they are my strong preference, as long as there is some discernable link to our identity and use of those three colours. The new kit has neither good design nor any link to our identity in my view.

 

And I don't have a "vehement dislike of the new setup" (it hints that I don't like the club management etc. -this might have been a typo on your part, or you may have misused the word setup, so not saying this was intentional). I just have a vehement dislike of the new home kit.

 

I hope the next one is better too. They'd be hard pressed to come up with one worse!

 

Over and out.

[mulletsaint]

Christ is this still going?

[Frank's cousin]

Certainly, I would be delighted to.

 

Unfortunately, your post again emphasise your lack of understanding in this area, so my efforts may be somewhat futile, and to be honest, there is no guarantee of me a good job of it either - football culture being somewhat indefinable (in the same way that 'culture' itself is) – it can mean different things to different people.

 

Which brings me to my first point - you seem to be under the misapprehension that football culture is one tangible 'thing'; a set of rules or precedents to be followed ("What part of the football culture code does it contravene? Which version of the football culture are you subscribing to?"). It is actually the opposite of a set of rules - a free form, organic mix of thoughts, feelings, passions, trends, fashions, language, song, even art. Again, it's just "culture" and as difficult to pin down or define as you might expect.

 

But in this context of course it is all related to one thing - football. Moreover, for each club it is about their football club - their team, their community, their fellow fans, their rivalries, their songs, their history, their colours, their badge, and yes, their kit.. All of this - this intra-club culture - gives a club its personality, its identity. And this identity is important. It's very important. And a clubs colours are massively important part of that identity. They let each ‘soccer tribe’ know who you are, and what you stand for. It gives cultural signals.

 

As fans we “nail our colours to the mast”. We want our players to “play for the shirt”. Those rather clichéd statements means something in football culture. Celtic fans live and breathe the green and white, they are proud of their distinctive identity, proud of the hoops. Likewise Man Utd’s Red shirts, white shorts, black socks makes a statement – it instantly says “Man Utd” (even if they have nasty variations in the shirt like this season’s awful gingham print). Barcelona and Norwich are instantly identified by their livery. The shirt, the kit, tell people who you are. It is a symbol of your culture.

 

You give the analogy of a child crying over their best/favourite toy not being the colour they like. Again you are illustrating that you don’t “get it”. You are mistaking Saints as something disposable, like a burger, a car or a toy. It isn’t. Well it isn’t for me. If you are a true fan – and I have no doubt that you are - then it is something more permanent in your life. And again, that identity, those colours – the red, white and black – mean something. Or they should do. I can accept pretty much any variation – the Rank Xerox kit is still one of my favourites. I loved the Sash kit and all it commemorated too. I can live without stripes for a season if I have to, but I do want to have a kit that suggests “Saints” to me. That reinforces that identity to the rest of the world. That represents that culture. Our culture.

 

And I have to say in the last few years I think the club, and Nigel Adkins, have done a fantastic job in reinvigorating and enhancing that culture. All the “together as one” stuff. I love it. Which probably makes this move to the all red “Liverpool” kit all the more disappointing. It doesn’t crush our culture, of course not, it just diminishes it a little. And hopefully for just for a year, unless a more worrying longer-term ‘rebranding’ exercise is going on.

 

As many have pointed out to me, I have lost this battle. Not that there ever was one - the Chinese sweatshop kids fingers had bled a long time before we got to see our “all red Premier League kit” (like we’ve never been there before!). You and other fans, although a minority, are happy about the move. I am not, and as a season ticket holder, and a fan of over 40 years, I do feel I have the right to state my vehement dislike of our move away from the red and white shirt and the black shorts. In my view it just move us away from our tradition, our culture.

 

That’s it.

 

COYS!

 

PS I was amazed to see you actually live in Liverpool, a City steeped in football culture and tradition, given your seeming naivety in this area.

 

Appreciate the sentiments, but... well like in all aspects of life, 'culture' whatever it means to different people, also evolves - the ingrained aspects of what you allude to in the 'tribe' is a more recent thing - post 70s - evolved when the older generation of dads had a new affluence and took up golf leaving terraces a little less 'controlled'.

 

Identity? well we are not the first to try something new and wont be the last - and teh club will like all clubs follow what customers demand...en masse, and not the minorities , no matter how loyal or 'hard core' that group may be. That is the 'business culture' of the modern game.

 

Tradition? Well emotive subject, can understand why it upsets some folk, and each opinion is valid, but tradition is not set in stone, again it evolves, whether moving to a new stadium, or changing the kit, its all about time - Today's 'shocking' change could well become our 'tradition' if we stayed in thos ecolours for 30 years+ who knows - and the level of success and growth we have in those colours will go a long way to how folk come round to the idea.

 

Seems some dont like change - fair enough and we see it constantly with any slight deviation by the club siezed upon as some sort of 'ignoring of or history and tradition' - that may well be true, but how you feel about it will depend on whether you are galss half full or half empty;

 

Half empty: Cortese does not get it - blatently ignoring our history and tradition

Half full: Cortese/Liebherr totally got it - they saw a club with great tradition and history, a strong foundation on which to build something anew - a fresh start with new ideas and sow te seeds for new traditions.

[aintforever]

Cortese has made it pretty clear he doesn't care much for SFC's history and traditions. It's no big deal just I find it all a bit sad. It's not hard to design a fresh new football kit and still keep it in Southampton colours.

[Thedelldays]

Cortese has made it pretty clear he doesn't care much for SFC's history and traditions. It's no big deal just I find it all a bit sad. It's not hard to design a fresh new football kit and still keep it in Southampton colours.

 

You must have missed the Sash kit.

[pap]

The mock hurt at my comments - fairly innocuous I thought - doesn't wash though, especially given your patronising posts to me, CBFry etc. (got to be able to take it was well as give it fella!). I think you just don't "get it" you think I talk "subjective waffle" and /or "outright bolox" - doubt we'll change each others minds, so we'll leave it there!

 

I think if sir reviews the chronology of events, he may find that CB Fry's first contribution to the debate was accusing me of hating the stripes. Your second post accused me of knowing nothing about football culture. I'll happily admit to being considerably more combative after that, but even so, all I was really doing was pulling you up on the things you were saying.

 

I'm not making a value judgement on you as a person. I'm not inventing things and pretending you said it or think it. At the end of the day, you're trying to diminish the points I'm making by diminishing me. In my view, and pardon my French, but that is a little bit out of order.

 

Totally cop for the typo though.

[CB Fry]

I think if sir reviews the chronology of events, he may find that CB Fry's first contribution to the debate was accusing me of hating the stripes. Your second post accused me of knowing nothing about football culture. I'll happily admit to being considerably more combative after that, but even so, all I was really doing was pulling you up on the things you were saying.

 

I'm not making a value judgement on you as a person. I'm not inventing things and pretending you said it or think it. At the end of the day, you're trying to diminish the points I'm making by diminishing me. In my view, and pardon my French, but that is a little bit out of order.

 

Totally cop for the typo though.

 

 

 

Can I take this opportunity to sinerely apologise for accusing you of hating red and white striped football jerseys.

 

If I'd have known it would cut you up quite this much I would never have mentioned it.

[SW11_Saint]

Identity? well we are not the first to try something new and wont be the last - and teh club will like all clubs follow what customers demand...en masse, and not the minorities , no matter how loyal or 'hard core' that group may be. That is the 'business culture' of the modern game.

 

Tradition? Well emotive subject, can understand why it upsets some folk, and each opinion is valid, but tradition is not set in stone, again it evolves, whether moving to a new stadium, or changing the kit, its all about time - Today's 'shocking' change could well become our 'tradition' if we stayed in thos ecolours for 30 years+ who knows - and the level of success and growth we have in those colours will go a long way to how folk come round to the idea.

 

Seems some dont like change - fair enough and we see it constantly with any slight deviation by the club siezed upon as some sort of 'ignoring of or history and tradition' - that may well be true, but how you feel about it will depend on whether you are galss half full or half empty;

 

Half empty: Cortese does not get it - blatently ignoring our history and tradition

Half full: Cortese/Liebherr totally got it - they saw a club with great tradition and history, a strong foundation on which to build something anew - a fresh start with new ideas and sow te seeds for new traditions.

With due respect FC I think the 'glass half full' argument is an over simplification. Of course things evolve and change, but you have to look at each change in turn and judge it on it's relative merits.

 

Some changes are good - new ground, better pies. Some are less so - appointing inept managers (lord knows we've had a few of those!), changing your traditional home kit. Also of course whether things are deemed good or bad is entirely subjective (you applaud the kit change, I don't).

 

Of course, the noise will die own on this. The season will start, we'll have other distractions (hopefully posiitive ones). The minority who like the kit will be happy regardless. The majority who don't will just suck it up and hope we change bak to something more in keeping with our history next season. Can't wait for the season to start, but must admit I feel odd watching us run out in the 'Liverpool kit'.

 

I do hope you are right about the club following customer demands though. Less than 35% approval* is pretty appalling and if that is reflected in lower replica sales then that will dictate what happens next I suspect.

 

[* from the poll above before anyone jumps down my throat - incidentally the most positive 'pro kit' figure I have seen]

[pap]

Can I take this opportunity to sinerely apologise for accusing you of hating red and white striped football jerseys.

 

If I'd have known it would cut you up quite this much I would never have mentioned it.

 

Is this seriously the best baiting material you have at your disposal?

[paris]

Here here ,extremely well worded !!!

[paris]

Here here ,extremely well worded SW11 !!!

[The9]

Where is the option for epl badges in the online store?

 

Not there.

 

Not yet anyway. I'm sure they'll notice around April.

 

Interested to hear on what grounds the sales are "record breaking" according to the OS... New lows? Most all red shirts sold on July 1 when it's a Sunday? Best selling Saints Prem kit of the 2010s..?

 

There was no bugger buying it when I was in West Quay yesterday...

[Thedelldays]

Ah. Didn't take long for people to think the club is lying when "record breaking" comes into play

 

 

Maybe, just accept that outside of SWF world and your tantrums about the kit... It is quite bloody popular

[alpine_saint]

Ah. Didn't take long for people to think the club is lying when "record breaking" comes into play

 

 

Maybe, just accept that outside of SWF world and your tantrums about the kit... It is quite bloody popular

 

Be quiet, Pillsbury-Dough Troll.

[Thedelldays]

You were saying about abuse?

[alpine_saint]

You were saying about abuse?

 

Yep, touche. I leave myself open as fair game.

 

Thats what your persistent irritating puerile "nah-nah-ne-nah-nah" posting does to me.

 

You must be VERY proud of the level of discussion you instigate on here.

[dune]

Ah. Didn't take long for people to think the club is lying when "record breaking" comes into play

 

 

Maybe, just accept that outside of SWF world and your tantrums about the kit... It is quite bloody popular

 

It's sure to be popular because it's a Premier League shirt, but it's still sh/t.

[Paul Chuckle]

does anyone know if they now have shirt printing facilities at the West Quay store?

[The Kraken]

does anyone know if they now have shirt printing facilities at the West Quay store?

Doubt it; the shirt printing they were doing was on launch day and was a separate stand external to the store. Although (The9 is the one to answer this really) maybe you could just take the shirt to another retailer such as Sports Direct?