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Summer 2012 HCDAJFU Thread - Premier League Special Edition

Jimmy_D

By Jimmy_D,
in The Saints

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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What if we'd done it the other way around? Would we then not need to strengthen?

 

I don't get the logic. Fact is, we want and need to strengthen, like every other team. And we will. But WHEN we gained points isn't the important part. If you're saying teams ending the season well can carry that on, then why can a team starting the season well not start the following one more? I don't agree with either. It comes down to quality.

 

When Saints, Reading and WH start next season, they'll get points based on their squad, the management and tactics. It won't be about when they had their best period of form the season before. If anything, Saints were the most consistent, with WH too erratic and Reading poor then brilliant. I'd rather be in our shoes, because form can quickly disappear, and what happens if you find out you're not actually left with much quality?

 

But people seem obsessed with short term, runs of 6 or 7 games, position after 1 month, by christmas, february, march and so on. It's about the full season and we won't be able to judge them until next summer. It'll frustrate some fans and they'll have a million badly judged opinions until then, but countless teams have been brilliant and fallen to pieces, been rubbish and then great, been average then poor, poor then average and every combination possible. My advice, don't EXPECT points anywhere but don't rule them out anywhere, assume nothing and don't relax until we have 40+ points however safe it looks.

 

IMO we overperformed at the start and took a lot of teams by surprise and continued our momentum from the year before. West Ham clearly had a stronger squad than us and by the end of the season they started to live up to their expectations. With our difficlt start it may be difficult to build a head of steam. i hope we strengthen as much as West Ham and Reading do and as I said, I'm sure we will.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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Weren't we about 5 points behind West Ham at the end of our rough run in winter? Around the end of January that kind of time. I'd have said it was them who tailed off at the end of the season drawing all those home games. We were a bit rough at the end losing to Blackpool, Reading and Boro but they are three tough games to promotion chasing teams.

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Stattmeister

Stattmeister

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IMO we overperformed at the start and took a lot of teams by surprise and continued our momentum from the year before. West Ham clearly had a stronger squad than us and by the end of the season they started to live up to their expectations. With our difficlt start it may be difficult to build a head of steam. i hope we strengthen as much as West Ham and Reading do and as I said, I'm sure we will.

 

 

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/west-ham-united/2011-2012/results

 

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/southampton/2011-2012/results

 

I'd suggest that according to WHUform (in the above link) they bottled it in March when the pressure was on (all of those draws we remember), not that they started slowly and built up a head of steam. I don't argue the point that we took teams by surprise and had early momentum.

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iansums

iansums

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He is an idiot but he's done well at every club he's been at. Even at Newcastle they were 11th when he left because this wasnt good enough for the geordies, the following season they went down. How anyone can say he's clueless is beyond me.

 

So you can't say that he's clueless but he is still an idiot. Nice logic there Turkish. I think you'll find that he's neither an idiot or clueless, nor is he greatest football manager ever, somewhere in between I think.

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Guest flickjax

Guest flickjax

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West Ham were good going forward But Green was like their version of Tim Flowers during second half of season as defensively they were poor.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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We got 19 points from our last 10 games, exactly the same as West Ham. Take your point though.

 

Regardless, I hope you see what I am getting at. Over the entirety of the season we overperformed whereas West Ham underperformed but then looked to get their act together by the end. They also have a lot of pevious Premiership experience which means they may hit the ground running and be a force immediately next year. I have no problem at all with however long we take to make signings as long as we make them and they are of sufficient quality to survive in this league. Jay Rodriguez was a great start IMO though I do feel that Championship to Premiership is a much greater leap than league one to NPC. We need t be ruthless and relegate the likes of Hammond to reserve status and bring in players who are clearly better. I feel confident this will happen!

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Turkish

Turkish

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So you can't say that he's clueless but he is still an idiot. Nice logic there Turkish. I think you'll find that he's neither an idiot or clueless, nor is he greatest football manager ever, somewhere in between I think.

 

Course you can be an idiot and not clueless. Prehaps the wrong choice of word though, i meant a pr*ck, a bell end a c*ck. A bit of a helmet as a bloke, or at least that's how he comes across. HTH.

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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

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Thomas Hitzelsperger wants to return to Premier League and has been talking to a few clubs...experienced and I think HCDAJFU this year. No link to us directly.

 

Crippled by injury sadly - hence leaving his German club, Wolfsburg I think.

 

Heard his interview on Talksport this morning with Alan Brazil, was going to say HCDAJFU then checked and he's now 30 and only played 23 games since leaving VFB Stuttgart two seasons ago. Good experience with 52 caps for Germany but surely not for us with the type of young, hungry, British players we seem to be going for.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

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Regardless, I hope you see what I am getting at. Over the entirety of the season we overperformed whereas West Ham underperformed but then looked to get their act together by the end. They also have a lot of pevious Premiership experience which means they may hit the ground running and be a force immediately next year. I have no problem at all with however long we take to make signings as long as we make them and they are of sufficient quality to survive in this league. Jay Rodriguez was a great start IMO though I do feel that Championship to Premiership is a much greater leap than league one to NPC. We need t be ruthless and relegate the likes of Hammond to reserve status and bring in players who are clearly better. I feel confident this will happen!

 

I disagree with the first half of your post. We didn't overperform last year, we are a decent side, and I would say we under performed for a fair chunk of the season. West Ham were just long ball, I think you are overrating them a bit.

To be fair you are spot on about being ruthless though.

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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I think it also had something to do with our players stepping up majorly last season. They were good L1 players the league before, but the younger ones stepped up (Lallana/Morgan) we brought in another good CB to partner Fonte, and also brought in goals in Sharp, also Guly was superb at the start of last season and Lambert looked like he'd been playing at atleast that level for years. I wouldn't say we overperformed, I would say that we showed our potential. I just hope that these players can keep getting better and better and we can show how good we are next season with a few tweaks.

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beavis17

beavis17

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Posted

One-time reported target Jordan Mutch has joined Cardiff from Birmingham. They must really be going for it next season and shows Brum need to sell?

 

Butland will hopefully be the next one allowed to leave for pastures new...

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)

Jordon Mutch joining Cardiff apparently. Thought he'd be a good signing for us so Cardiff has done well there. Quality player. The fact we haven't gone for him either shows we are aimign higher or happy with what we have in the middle. Maybe Cardiff can finally do it next season. Might have a few bob on them if they can sign a striker.

 

Perhaps we'll grab one of the other Bluenoses I suggested. Butland, Davies or Redmond?

Edited by Chez
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westmidlandsaint

westmidlandsaint

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Posted
Jordon Mutch joining Cardiff apparently. Thought he'd be a good signing for us so Cardiff has done well there. Quality player. The fact we haven't gone for him either shows we are aimign higher or happy with what we have in the middle. Maybe Cardiff can finally do it next season. Might have a few bob on them if they can sign a striker.

 

Perhaps we'll grab one of the other Bluenoses I suggested. Butland, Davies or Redmond?

 

I think you could right on both fronts, Cardiff are looking good for promotion candidates and looking at the bluenoses players I think it's obvious we're in for Butland as I said on a thread earlier lot of blues fans up here think he's on his way to us. Redmond I think fits the kind of mould we're looking for young, British & potentially great future ahead of him, he's highly rated up here. I also like Davies but think he may go to norwich with Hughton. I would be happy with any of these 3 or a combination of he 3 or all 3

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itchen_dan

itchen_dan

Posted
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Hopefully going to be an interesting week ahead with a possible couple of signings before the players go back for pre-season training & a new kit being released. I wonder if we're any closer to those new arrivals being announced?

 

A fan on Twitter is adamant that Michu is signing next week for £6m even though it can't be confirmed until the 1st July.

 

Keep an eye on @MasterCGraves account to see if he says anymore.

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manji

manji

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A fan on Twitter is adamant that Michu is signing next week for £6m even though it can't be confirmed until the 1st July.

 

Keep an eye on @MasterCGraves account to see if he says anymore.

I would be well pleased with that signing.

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Papa Shango

Papa Shango

Posted
Posted
Regardless, I hope you see what I am getting at. Over the entirety of the season we overperformed whereas West Ham underperformed but then looked to get their act together by the end. They also have a lot of pevious Premiership experience which means they may hit the ground running and be a force immediately next year. I have no problem at all with however long we take to make signings as long as we make them and they are of sufficient quality to survive in this league. Jay Rodriguez was a great start IMO though I do feel that Championship to Premiership is a much greater leap than league one to NPC. We need t be ruthless and relegate the likes of Hammond to reserve status and bring in players who are clearly better. I feel confident this will happen!

 

Oh yeah I completely agree. As much as it pains me to say, I think our current squad would have little chance of staying up. We need strengthening, but then pretty much every club coming up into the Prem from the Champ does.

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Badger

Badger

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Heard rumours about Michu signing. Definitely seemed to be interest from Saints a while ago, could just be one that takes a while to wrap up. Would be top quality wouldn't it, fits our style perfectly from what I've seen.

 

Would it ?

 

Not trying to argue the point but I don't know enough about him other than reading he's previously been watched by some of the higher profile clubs and valued at £5-6m. The only snippets on youtube show him as a goalscoring midfielder who appears to play in a fairly advanced role, is that what we need ? Sticking with Lawrie's great theory we need dustmen as well as violinists. Michu looks a violinist to me, we also need some dustmen.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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Would it ?

 

Not trying to argue the point but I don't know enough about him other than reading he's previously been watched by some of the higher profile clubs and valued at £5-6m. The only snippets on youtube show him as a goalscoring midfielder who appears to play in a fairly advanced role, is that what we need ? Sticking with Lawrie's great theory we need dustmen as well as violinists. Michu looks a violinist to me, we also need some dustmen.

 

He's exactly the sort of midfielder we need. All our current ones are too similar, would be nice to have a central midfielder who is a regular goal threat.

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Saint-Armstrong

Saint-Armstrong

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Would it ?

 

Not trying to argue the point but I don't know enough about him other than reading he's previously been watched by some of the higher profile clubs and valued at £5-6m. The only snippets on youtube show him as a goalscoring midfielder who appears to play in a fairly advanced role, is that what we need ? Sticking with Lawrie's great theory we need dustmen as well as violinists. Michu looks a violinist to me, we also need some dustmen.

 

This report on him is very interesting - certainly says he is both a dustman and violinist.

 

Strong, physical and willing to sacrifice himself for the defensive cause also.

 

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/why-manchester-united-target-michu-is-perfect-for-the-premier-league/

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InvictaSaint

InvictaSaint

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A fan on Twitter is adamant that Michu is signing next week for £6m even though it can't be confirmed until the 1st July.

 

Keep an eye on @MasterCGraves account to see if he says anymore.

 

Could be wrong (and apologies to all concerned if so!) but isn't Pilchards real name Colin Graves? That would tie in with the tweet from MasterCGraves and the post above about the Michu rumour emanating from him. Hope it's true!

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for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
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Could be wrong (and apologies to all concerned if so!) but isn't Pilchards real name Colin Graves? That would tie in with the tweet from MasterCGraves and the post above about the Michu rumour emanating from him. Hope it's true!

 

Yes it is, says on his Twitter profile that he's known as Pilchards.

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

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Regardless, I hope you see what I am getting at. Over the entirety of the season we overperformed whereas West Ham underperformed but then looked to get their act together by the end. They also have a lot of pevious Premiership experience which means they may hit the ground running and be a force immediately next year. I have no problem at all with however long we take to make signings as long as we make them and they are of sufficient quality to survive in this league. Jay Rodriguez was a great start IMO though I do feel that Championship to Premiership is a much greater leap than league one to NPC. We need t be ruthless and relegate the likes of Hammond to reserve status and bring in players who are clearly better. I feel confident this will happen!

 

Your "opinion" of us over performing and them under-performing is based I assume on past performance levels. This is exactly what many people fail to realise that past performance is an indicator of two things;

1) The level that they have performed at before and;

2 The level that they can perform at in the future.

 

The fact that you believe that West Ham's squad under-performance indicates to me that the squad (to be general) was/is full of players who have reached their individual peaks and are on the way down and therefore perform at their best on a fewer number of occasions.

 

And in terms of Saints this is the opposite. Our squad has players who are still improving and their performance levels are still getting better but more importantly the perform at this level far more often than not.

 

Choices have to be made when recruiting players; do you go for experience, and therefore you know exactly what you are getting at its maximum but realise that the maximum level may not be produced as often, and that the player will only decline.

Or do you choose the player with potential, whose limit is unknown but can be anticipated, and therefore as they improve (amongst others also improving) you boost the overall level to one that is actually unknown, but may also not produce as quickly as hoped or as consistently as someone more experienced.

 

It's fairly obvious which camp we are in generally and that is far more exciting and is the long term vision rather than the short term one.

 

I predict that we will once again over perform and West Ham will under perform as will QPR!!

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Badger

Badger

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Posted
This report on him is very interesting - certainly says he is both a dustman and violinist.

 

Strong, physical and willing to sacrifice himself for the defensive cause also.

 

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/why-manchester-united-target-michu-is-perfect-for-the-premier-league/

 

Thanks for that, it does seem a fairly informed piece. Certainly paints a better picture than the youtube highlights.

 

If that article is to be believed, then yes get him on the bus, or on board with an oar in his hand...

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Crazy Diamond

Crazy Diamond

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It's pretty embarrassing how much our fans hound media contacts for info on signings, how about you just wait until they happen! Not to mention actually believing fake agents accounts.

 

I agree, it is.

 

In this case it's Pilchards though and he knows a thing or two. When Burley first took over he managed to film his first training session and get it to us on Saints Forever.

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Saint-Armstrong

Saint-Armstrong

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is Michu a midfielder or striker? I feel we might have too many strikers if he is but nevertheless bring him in seems like an awesome signing

 

Midfielder. An attack-minded one it seems. Could work as we struggle to get goals from the middle of the park.

 

One thing I did wonder is does this suit a diamond, for example:

 

Defensive Mids: Schneiderlin, Hammond

Central Mids: Cork, Chaplow, Michu

Attacking Mids: Lallana, Michu, Guly

 

 

Nigel did mention trying new formations in pre-season but I'm probably on the wrong wavelength here.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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I agree, it is.

 

In this case it's Pilchards though and he knows a thing or two. When Burley first took over he managed to film his first training session and get it to us on Saints Forever.

 

I thought he was a security guard or something at the training ground.

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Badger

Badger

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he will probably play wide right

 

That seemed to me the most likely available slot we are looking to fill, and the one he might well end up in.Wonder how we'll juggle him and Kevin De Bruyne should that one happen as speculated a week or so ago.

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