Do We Need a New Back Line

[PinkScarf]

Once we have secure Promotion - the Girls think we need a new Keeper to challenge Kelvin.

 

We also think we need a new back line replacing Jose Fonte Danny Butterfield and Danny Fox but keeping Jos Hooiveld.

[ThreeSixty]

You could argue it. Can't see us dumping Fox after splashing £1.8m on him.

 

New rightback is a certainty. Fonte and Jos will both still be here, hopefully get another in to push them.

 

Of course out full backs wouldn't look so hopeless if they had some help from the wide men, but that is another thread all together.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I think Fox and Jos are good enough - new CB and Rb with Fonte, Martin andvRichardson as backup

[saintscottofthenortham]

Fox and Hoover will both be starting for us next season. As for Fonte... If we can find the one we had last season then keep him, but the Fonte of this year will be completely out of his depth in the Prem. Frazer is quality, but injured too often. Butterfield just slows us down and to be honest, just is not goon enough. And he runs like a helmet.

[doddisalegend]

New full backs all round Fox will get murdered in the PL Butterfield, Harding and Richardson the same. If were going to play this diamond with the full backs providing the width in the PL then we need fullbacks that are upto it.

[Leicestersaint]

Once we have secure Promotion - the Girls think we need a new Keeper to challenge Kelvin.

 

We also think we need a new back line replacing Jose Fonte Danny Butterfield and Danny Fox but keeping Jos Hooiveld.

 

Yes i think this is right. Fox will be murdered by some of the wingers in the PL - Fonte migth make it to the bnch. I still think that Martin might come through.

[Dig Dig]

I would replace the fullbacks. Fox was bought in for his set piece delivery but he really isn't a good defender. He so often turns his back on the runner and can be very slow to react. For any winger who would like to cut inside, you can do it at will against fox.

 

As a defensive unit, the whole team need to be more alert and quicker to close down, tackle and get to the 50-50's.

 

I also think we would be better defensively if we had an out and out DM and AM so there is no ambiguity as to who should be shielding the back 4.

[Thedelldays]

 

I also think we would be better defensively if we had an out and out DM and AM so there is no ambiguity as to who should be shielding the back 4.

 

there is no ambiguity....we play with two CM that don't get forward much...that is how we play

[RobM]

I think Fox and Jos are good enough - new CB and Rb with Fonte, Martin andvRichardson as backup

 

Agreed, although I'm not sure Fonte will take well to being a backup, but that's his problem. I think Jos alongside somebody like a young Jaidi and a new RB would be a decent proposition.

[Whitey Grandad]

If we do achieve what was unthinkable at the start of the season then we shall need almost a whole new team. If somehow it all goes apesh1t then we have a very good Championship team.

[Dig Dig]

there is no ambiguity....we play with two CM that don't get forward much...that is how we play

 

No excuses for letting players have speculative shots from 25-30 yards then. Who was responsible for tracking Robson when he had two free shots from edge of the box first half? No one took the responsibility and it could have cost is dear being my point. No point having them both sat deep, especially as we have nearly zero goal threat from the middle.

[RobM]

If we do achieve what was unthinkable at the start of the season then we shall need almost a whole new team. If somehow it all goes apesh1t then we have a very good Championship team.

 

Wow. I don't think that's true at all. KD has Prem experience and is good enough for another season or two. Jos has been solid, if not as consistent as we'd like, but shown enough for the PL. Cork, Morgan, Lallana I'm confident can do a good job in the PL. Rickie I think would adapt well to any league, Sharp will provide the poacher 'right place, right time' forward that again works well in any league.

 

IMO, the core of our starting lineup is good enough. What we need is another CM, a quality RM (although Chappers might have a part to play), a big CB and a new RB to compliment those that are good enough.

[Thedelldays]

No excuses for letting players have speculative shots from 25-30 yards then. Who was responsible for tracking Robson when he had two free shots from edge of the box first half? No one took the responsibility and it could have cost is dear being my point. No point having them both sat deep, especially as we have nearly zero goal threat from the middle.

i know..but then, we have just come up from league 1....players will make mistakes...

[beatlesaint]

Jos is the only one I would start as a regular IF we go up. The two left backs and two right backs we have will both get murdered whilst Fonte is getting pushed around in this league so God knows what the Prem strikers would do to him.

[Window Cleaner]

Jos is the only one I would start as a regular IF we go up. The two left backs and two right backs we have will both get murdered whilst Fonte is getting pushed around in this league so God knows what the Prem strikers would do to him.

 

yep just Jos for me as well.I'd move Fox forward though and make Adam play on the other side.

[saints_is_the_south]

Fonte is not good enough for the Premier League, he has been a bit of a worry all season for me. Right back most definitely needs an upgrade. Jos the boss will be fine, and as has already been said I can't see us dumping Fox after spending nearly £2m on him. So a centre back and right back required, and then maybe go for a better left back the season after, providing we've stayed up.

[Alanh]

Agree with most on this thread that we need a new right sided CB to push Fonte hard for a starting place. I'm most concerned about the way he holds attackers when challenging them. I know that all defenders do this to some extent but you see more fouls given for it in the Prem and that could cost us. IMO Fox will be fine for the Prem, and Richardson probably will be as well. Are they really that much different in terms of ability and performance to the like of Rangel, Taylor (Swansea), Shotton, Wilson (Stoke), Baker, Lichaj, Hutton (Villa), Hughes, Baird (Fulham), Martin, Drury (Norwich). They aren't as good as the top 4 or 5 teams put out at full back but they are good enough for our first season ambitions which I would think are mid / lower table safety.

 

As for Kelvin, I think he deserves a crack at the Prem for at least the first half of the season. If there is a good young player available to challenge him then we should look at that.

 

If we do get promoted the priorities for me are CB, CM, RM and striker.

[Leicestersaint]

If we rely on Fox and Richardson then I think we will come horribly unstuck against pacey players - they will leave them standing.

[shurlock]

Kyle Naughton is a decent RB - on loan at Norwich. Still think Clyne is a class act (while Zaha is overrated)

QPR who I hope go down have a few defenders that might be cut loose - Onuoha, Traore, Taiwo etc.

[Thedelldays]

we can't just buy a new team when we go up.

[Whitey Grandad]

we can't just buy a new team when we go up.

 

That's what the money's for. It's the other way round on relegation.

[Thedelldays]

That's what the money's for. It's the other way round on relegation.

is it..then why haven't norwich or swansea bought a new team?

 

neither of those were as good as us in this league last season

[shurlock]

we can't just buy a new team when we go up.

 

No we can't, though its clear that NA has been looking to strengthen the defense - hence the deal for Collins that didnt go through or the repeated links with Upson. For all NA's talk about squads and rotation, the two CBs pick themselves week in, week out. That's not a healthy state of affairs.

[Thedelldays]

No we can't, though its clear that NA has been looking to strengthen the defense - hence the deal for Collins that didnt go through or the repeated links with Upson. For all NA's talk about squads and rotation, the two CBs pick themselves week in, week out.

I agree..but I can't see us literally replacing 3 of the back four or 4 of the back 5 including davis....for the 1st game next season.

then people will want a new CM, RM and striker....you are looking at 8 new players starting...

 

never ever going to happen

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Two players in each position, backup/competition in brackets:

 

????? (Kelvin)

 

???? (Frazer)

Hooveld (Fonte)

???? (Martin)

????? (Fox)

 

????? (????)

Morgan (????)

Cork (????)

Lallana (????)

 

Rickie (Sharp)

Lee (?????)

 

I make that 10 players we need, perhaps a bit ambitious

[Window Cleaner]

Yes i think this is right. Fox will be murdered by some of the wingers in the PL - Fonte migth make it to the bnch. I still think that Martin might come through.

 

Doubt it, not while Nigel is manager. Fonte has put in some shockers of late but Martin hasn't replaced him;Just don't think Nigel has much confidence in him...or would that be Crosby?

[shurlock]

Two players in each position, backup/competition in brackets:

 

????? (Kelvin)

 

???? (Frazer)

Hooveld (Fonte)

???? (Martin)

????? (Fox)

 

????? (????)

Morgan (????)

Cork (????)

Lallana (????)

 

Rickie (Sharp)

Lee (?????)

 

I make that 10 players we need, perhaps a bit ambitious

 

No chance - this season, we brought 4 players in the summer window and 2 in the winter. Its pretty clear that we were looking for another striker last summer, so it would have been 5 players.

I can see a similar amount coming in again and then a few departures -out of those who are leaving, only Punch could really claim that he could do a job in the Prem.

[Whitey Grandad]

is it..then why haven't norwich or swansea bought a new team?

 

neither of those were as good as us in this league last season

 

I think Norwich changed quite a few of their players after promotion. The choice of whether to spend depends on circumstances. Didn't Blackpool decide to keep mainly the same team and spend on infrastructure instead?

[sperm_john]

I'm going to answer this question with a 'hell no'.

But as a caveat (check me with my big word) - richardson should start ahead of butterfield, and big KD relied on his wall too much yesterday for the second goal.

[ulstersaint]

Fox and Hoover will both be starting for us next season. As for Fonte... If we can find the one we had last season then keep him, but the Fonte of this year will be completely out of his depth in the Prem. Frazer is quality, but injured too often. Butterfield just slows us down and to be honest, just is not goon enough. And he runs like a helmet.

Agreed.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Bridgey will be a good addition

[jjsaint]

Bridgey will be a good addition

 

Hmmmm. Not sure about this.

[toofarnorth]

Two players in each position, backup/competition in brackets:

Agree (Kelvin)

 

Agree (Frazer)

Hooveld (Fonte) +Seabourne

Agree (Martin)

Fox (Harding/Shaw)

 

Agree (De Ridder)

Morgan (Cork) +Ward-Prowse

AN other(Hammond) +Chaplow

Lallana (Agree)

 

Rickie (Sharp)

Lee (Barnard) + AN other with pace

 

I make that 10 players we need, perhaps a bit ambitious

 

So by my calculations we need 7 in to be a great team. Probably 3 or 4 to be competitive.

[stu0x]

is it..then why haven't norwich or swansea bought a new team?

 

neither of those were as good as us in this league last season

Norwich have signed about 8 players since last summer, and a similar amount the season before (following their L1 promotion). This notion that they've come up with the same group of players is a myth. I could easily see us making 6 permanent signings in Summer, as well as a couple of loans. In reality, it will probably be governed by how many squad players we can move on.

[Monk]

Would like to see:

 

Joe Lewis/Paul Robinson/Alex Smithies

 

Curtis Davies/Sebastien Bassong

 

Nathaniel Clyne/Steven Caulker/ Matthew Lowton

 

Luke Shaw as an understudy

[alpine_saint]

Fonte appears out of his depth.

Butterfields appearances in recent week s have been disappointing.

Richardson is always injured.

Harding and Fox are bloody inconsistent.

Doubtful for me Seaborne is going to make it back. I am surprised he is even trying following a serious head injury. Will always worry that will blow up again with tragic consequences.

 

So for me the answer is yes. Only Jos and Martin have a future in my eyes.

[Colbury]

Hmmmm. Not sure about this.

 

Yeah I'm sure we will have no problem with signing a player who hasn't played well in 3+ years who is on 80k a week.

[dune]

Norwich have signed about 8 players since last summer, and a similar amount the season before (following their L1 promotion). This notion that they've come up with the same group of players is a myth. I could easily see us making 6 permanent signings in Summer, as well as a couple of loans. In reality, it will probably be governed by how many squad players we can move on.

 

If we go up the ambition (hard cash spent) of the Liebherr family will be put to the test. Nicola Cortese has certainly delivered on the training ground, so i'm optimistic. He hasn't failed us so far.

[Saint_John]

What a stupid thread, some people are still thinking it is about INDIVIDUAL players.

 

The tactics this season have been to push the full backs up leaving our centre halfs expososed to one-on-one situations. Other clubs like Hoof-Ball Sam have played more defensive systems 4-5-1 or 2 banks of 4 in a 4-4-2 system so that their defenders do not get exposed.

Nigel tactics have been to push defenders and midfielder forward at every opportunity and try and WIN games. By winning games you get promotion, by being defensive we would only have get us to the play offs.

 

Since Xmas a number of teams have played 2 quick wingers against us in a 4-3-2-1 systems (3 tight central midfielders + 2 wingers) and then play the ball over our full backs in an attempt to keep our defenders back, but Nigel has still pushed our defenders forward, therefore it appears that our full backs are always caught of position.

 

I expect us to be more defensive next season in the PL in most games and to double up on our defenders, therefore the individual mistakes that certain posters seem to focus on will not be noticed.

 

By the way Jose has been CLASS this season, making the right choice in so many one-on-one situations.

The 4 league games I believe he has missed were defeats against Bristol (0-1), Brighton (0-3), Leicester (0-2) and a win against 10 man Forest.

[SNSUN]

Norwich have signed about 8 players since last summer, and a similar amount the season before (following their L1 promotion). This notion that they've come up with the same group of players is a myth. I could easily see us making 6 permanent signings in Summer, as well as a couple of loans. In reality, it will probably be governed by how many squad players we can move on.

 

Lambert's signings have been quality lower league players - he really has an eye for players that can make it in the Prem from the lower leagues. If we go up, Adkins will need to prove he can make the signings that will push us on to the next level as, and I know we all love him, Cortese won't wait too long before bringing in someone with Premier League experience IMO. (Although Adkins has more than earned his right to manage us at that level.)

[Saint_clark]

New full backs all round Fox will get murdered in the PL Butterfield, Harding and Richardson the same. If were going to play this diamond with the full backs providing the width in the PL then we need fullbacks that are upto it.

 

Fullbacks that good won't come to a team like us.

[doddisalegend]

Fullbacks that good won't come to a team like us.

 

I reckon your right TBH so we need to change our plan A next season. Our current full backs will get mullered in the PL the way we play right now.

[PinkScarf]

Saint John - the Girls reckon you're full of it !!

 

Tactics have a part to play - but of course it is about individual players and Danny Butterfield - Jose Fonte - and Danny Fox have been inconsistent and made regular errors.

 

Jose Fonte was a shining light in League One - but has been found wanting this Season and goes for the man rather than the ball regularly.

 

Do you go to Home and Away Games ?????

[corky morris]

I think we will let a number of defenders leave in the summer which will leave some gaps. Jaidi, Seabourne, Dickson at least with the chance of another couple if we get replacements.

Taking one of the following would improve us, Caulker (at Swansea, but a Spurs player) or Curtis Davies as a centre half & trying very hard to get Clyne, but that is unlikely.

Also expect us to get someone from overseas. We have got Guly, SDR, Lee now without us ever having heard of them. I can see another coming in from somewhere.

[Chez]

Richardson is always injured.

Not sure always injured is totally fair. He dislocated his shoulder before the season started in 2010 and was out till November, but still played 24 times, and he has played 37 times this season - and been an unused sub in several more games.

[Chez]

Fonte appears out of his depth.

he's gone through spells this season of being less impressive, but equally he's been outstanding in other periods.

[S-Clarke]

Don't tell me, Alpine is wrong again?

[Chez]

...and Fox are bloody inconsistent.

Has he? I slated him when he first came to the club, but there has been a continuous improvement from what I can see. He lacks pace, so doesn't get quite tight enough for my liking specifically because he'd concerned about getting done behind, but he certainly started to get tighter and also put a tackle or two in. I'm not sure he's inconsistent, he gives you the same in every game. Not 100% convinced, but he'll start and I doubt we'll bring in a left back.

 

Harding is even more consistent, but he lacks genuine class and pace.

[Chez]

Butterfields appearances in recent week s have been disappointing.

he had one shocker, but by and large he has done well in the other games and not exposed at all and that's from someone that can't stand slow fullbacks. He's not my cup of tea and he ball watched badly for the `offside' goal on Saturday but can't agree with that generalisation. I do agree that we can do better and might have to.

[saint1977]

Norwich have signed about 8 players since last summer, and a similar amount the season before (following their L1 promotion). This notion that they've come up with the same group of players is a myth. I could easily see us making 6 permanent signings in Summer, as well as a couple of loans. In reality, it will probably be governed by how many squad players we can move on.

 

This. Ditto Swansea as well. Might be 4 perm signings and 2 or 3 loans I reckon, especially at CB where there might be one full signing to compete with Fonte and Jos and then a loan coming in (like Swansea have done with Caulker) to give Martin and Seaborne a year's loan in the NPC to see if they can build on their experience and challenge.

 

There were a lot of rumours of Nigel moving for a keeper in January, not least the guy in the Dutch leagues, so wouldn't be at all surprised if we bought a keeper. Fox will start IMO but right back I'd be happier with Frazer as back-up. The lack of pace and stamina in RM and CM worry me more than our defence though.