St Mary's - What we might expect to see happen (and possibly announced soon)...

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm struggling to understand the level of hostility directed at the OP, its almost as if some are afraid of change and they'd like us to remain the middling club we now are in perpetuity. We can have a deadly dull accountants argument about how long it will take to see a return on the investment required to enlarge St Marys, but fundamentally expanding the business in both the short and the long term seems to fit in perfectly well with everything we know about the strategy Cortese has been pursuing.

 

Now if you want to say this expansionist strategy is wrong in principle for what is after all only a regional football club, and that the Chairmans display of hubris will lead us to financial disaster .... well that would indeed be a interesting debate to have one day. But to come on here and confidently predict that there is no way the stadium will ever be expanded seems to me more than a tad rash.

 

For what its worth, I just don't see Cortese being happy as the Chairman of a lower league, or eternally struggling PL club. He may, or may not, succeed in all his grand ambitions, and 'Men make plans and the Gods laugh' of course, but I reckon the next few years could be a interesting time for this lovely old club.

 

Just saying.

Edited 20 April, 2012 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Wes Tender]

Can't see why it would be a waste of time. A bigger SMS would mean more fans going through the turnstiles every season. That would be a fact

 

We will have what... 18 home games. I would say we would have at 12 sell outs

Let's say 6-8 of those sell outs could have sold another 4k at least

 

Then our average attendance would rocket which is good.

 

I doubt they plan all this on whether we will sell out against Wigan or not

 

I agree entirely.

[doddisalegend]

I can understand the passion of arguing for a larger capacity, but what motivates those who argue against it? Is it spite? Is it just for sake of having an argument?

 

Also don't forget money spent on tangible assets will be written off as shares. This means an increased hypothetical sale price, and increased revenues each season until then. I think it more likely than not that our capacity will increase in the next 5 years.

 

The over riding thing for me is will we get bigger crowds? I can't think of anything worse than having a larger staduim that doesn't get filled most weeks. We've failed to sell out SMS plenty of times this season, in what has got to be one of saints best seasons in recent history, so why do people think 14,000+ more fans are just waiting to turn up in the PL. Are there really that number of saints fans who haven't been bothereing to turn up but will next season when it will most likely cost more and will struggle to compete excitment wise of the last three seasons? Sure demand will be high for Man U or Chelsea (which is weird in itself IMO) but Swansea or Norwich I can't see it.

 

I remain to be convinced all these extra fans are out there surely it would be better to have a full 32,000 seat SMS week in week out than a quarter empty 46,000 seat staduim?

 

If this is about increased revenue surely corporate is the way to go in the PL. I was always led to believe that was the area that took a bigg hit when we were relegated from the PL.

[Thedelldays]

The over riding thing for me is will we get bigger crowds? I can't think of anything worse than having a larger staduim that doesn't get filled most weeks. We've failed to sell out SMS plenty of times this season, in what has got to be one of saints best seasons in recent history, so why do people think 14,000+ more fans are just waiting to turn up in the PL. Are there really that number of saints fans who haven't been bothereing to turn up but will next season when it will most likely cost more and will struggle to compete excitment wise of the last three seasons? Sure demand will be high for Man U or Chelsea (which is weird in itself IMO) but Swansea or Norwich I can't see it.

 

I remain to be convinced all these extra fans are out there surely it would be better to have a full 32,000 seat SMS week in week out than a quarter empty 46,000 seat staduim?

 

If this is about increased revenue surely corporate is the way to go in the PL. I was always led to believe that was the area that took a bigg hit when we were relegated from the PL.

 

46k would be too much IMO

 

38-40k would be interesting

[Puddings and Monkeys]

Cortese is planning the exta 14K seast to accommodate the ex-skate fans after they get liquidised.

[rooney]

All this talk of expansion is exciting but it will all come down to cash and attendances. The Board will want a guarantee of that and the only way is through Season Ticket Sales. A first pointer is the number we sell for next season.

[moonraker]

That's funny, when have I ever said anyhthing about St Mary's being too big, "my logic" is not being applied in your stupid example.

 

There are still people on here that say we should have moved to Stoneham (25k) and there was an absolute torrent of people saying that after we were relegated and they watched Pompey storm up the league with no infrastructure whatsoever - plenty then were saying our ground was too big for us then.

 

Increasing the £ per seat in the Premier League on zero revenue is a far, far, far, far lower risk than spunking god knows how much on capital expenditure on infrastructure that we may or may not need. All the "risk" is in your suggestions, not mine.

 

And managed, controlled supply is not "not very common" but it is very, very common. Most businesses I know do not go out to sell as much of their thing as is humanly possible. They go out to sell what they can make in the most profitable way possible. Apple could easily sell three times more ipads than they do now. But it almost certainly wouldn't make them more money. Controlled supply is a business principle in pretty much every walk of life from packets of crisps to Range Rovers.

 

Why don't we have a 100,000 capacity stadium on £2 a seat? We can all make dopey extrapolations.

As you seem to favour opening or closing your posts with an insult I thought I would mimic you, you’re an economic ignoramus, oh that makes me feel superior. Back to the debate, and a couple of points:

My Example was to illustrate one extreme (you illustrated the other) of the capacity argument the one you are arguing for i.e. that you maximise revenue by controlling the supply this has some merit when market conditions lead to an increase in demand and therefore you are able within limits to set the price high until supply and demand are in equilibrium. This is fine when the supply side cannot be adjusted to meet demand due to real scarcity (diamonds, gold, good wine) I would argue that whilst there is a limit on the amount of supply in terms of football stadia we haven’t come close to reaching it with SM.

Your Apple example is so completely wrong, Apples business model is not based on controlling supply, anyone who wants an apple product could go out and buy one today. The apple model is based on: exclusivity (not the same as demand), market access due to Microsoft dominance and the need to differentiate, first to market with new gizmo’s and first class customer service. It is these business model attributes that allow Apple to set premium prices not the control of demand. For a football club it would be difficult to replicate exclusivity indeed it is the antithesis of what a successful football club should pursue, MU are hardly exclusive but hey they are successful, they attempt to service demand to the maximum possible, (not comparing us to MU, just and example, just in case you do your usual thing and mis-interpret) whereas the phew have tried the exclusivity model by not extending FP and discouraging all but the bestest fans in world, and look where that got them.

To counter your “Most businesses I know do not go out to sell as much of their thing as is humanly possible” conversely most well governed businesses I know (ignoring window cleaners or makers of bespoke furniture etc.) do the opposite, they are occasionally constrained by cash flow or the ability to respond to the market often due to production or resource limitations. I certainly don’t see Tescos or Sainsburys letting there shelves run empty or Fiord or Nissan reigning in car production, unless demand dries up, but they maintain the infrastructure to respond to the upswing in demand

For capital expenditure read capital investment, now let me see, invest for the future, how many times have the majority of Saints fans pointed out that failing to do this is what got the phew to where they are now, the riskiest “investments” in footballers are transfer fees and wages not infrastructure. It wasn’t the SM mortgage that got us into trouble it was relegation and a misguided attempt to buy our way out of the Championship.

Hope that helps I may not be right but I do actually think about what I am saying, since when has the crisp supply been controlled, production is geared to meet demand.

Edited 20 April, 2012 by moonraker

[OldNick]

Aren't Reading's new owners struggling with the Fit and Proper persons test?

 

For every "Reading" that might decide to expand, there are loads of clubs selling out that aren't.

30 year olds worth 100's of millions coming from nothing, does make you think.

[speed demon]

It will happen in the end so all those who are against it for various reasons should start to come round to that way of thinking.

 

It's a bit like all the people who said Hooiveld was poor sigining or a sign of desperation, Billy Sharp not up to it etc etc etc they know absolutley **** all.

 

If Cortese thinks this the way forward for the club then I will get behind him and them team.

[northam soul]

All those saying we sold out most weeks back in the prem are wrong. I may have a bad memory but i am pretty sure there were not that many complete sell outs every season.

I remember going to many games where we only had mid to late twenties. I have read on here we averaged over 30,000 every season, well that may be so but there are then on average 2,000 empty seats per game.

I am sure there will be a surge of interest should we go up but how long will that last.

[Turkish]

I heart these threads. MLG with his usual nonsense that we should expand St Marys because another club with a smaller stadium mentioned once that they might look at expanding their ground in the future.

[Turkish]

What are we going to do now that imaginary line from Liverpool to Birmingham to London that everyone used to bang on about now contains 3 premier league clubs and not just us? That's reduced by two thirds of the fans that would have come from Wales, Devon and Cornwall to see Premier league football already.

[Thedelldays]

I heart these threads. MLG with his usual nonsense that we should expand St Marys because another club with a smaller stadium mentioned once that they might look at expanding their ground in the future.

do you not think that a 38k SMS would bring in loads more people through the turnstiles over a season..?

[Turkish]

do you not think that a 38k SMS would bring in loads more people through the turnstiles over a season..?

 

Simply having a bigger stadium doesnt automatically mean more people will come. Obviously more people will be able to come if they wish to, but lets wait and see if we can sell 32,000 seats every week first before thinking about spending the £18m to make St Marys bigger. I keep being told people cant make games because they are skint, its midweek, surprise family birthday parties etc. Are these circumstances all going to suddenly dispear when we get to the premier league?

[northam soul]

There is a far more cost effective way of increaing capacity that would of satisfied the needs of all those who are missing out on the cov game.

Reduce the size of the netting in the Northam as surely it doesnt need to be that wide.Its not like that at a lot of grounds and would give us at least another 100 tickets at £28 per game

Problem solved as the stewards and old bill stand there anyway.

[Thedelldays]

Simply having a bigger stadium doesnt automatically mean more people will come. Obviously more people will be able to come if they wish to, but lets wait and see if we can sell 32,000 seats every week first before thinking about spending the £18m to make St Marys bigger. I keep being told people cant make games because they are skint, its midweek, surprise family birthday parties etc. Are these circumstances all going to suddenly dispear when we get to the premier league?

so, you don't think we would not get many 34-36-37k gates then...none at all

[Turkish]

so, you don't think we would not get many 34-36-37k gates then...none at all

 

We probably would get some, i dont doubt that at all. Would we get 38k for Wigan at home on a tuesday night or Fulham at home on a sunday for a game on TV? Probably not. If we sell SMS out for a couple of seasons and are turning people away every week then it's time to expand.

[svetigpung]

Follow the way of the Bundesliga

Higher capacity grounds with lower admission prices in certain areas. Have you seen the attendances and ticket prices at loads of their clubs. Why not match them.

In certain games (Yep its Wigan again) fill the corners up with £10 tickets and make revenue on pies and scarfs and every other tat that can be sold.

 

Dare i say it...terrasses.

[Thedelldays]

We probably would get some, i dont doubt that at all. Would we get 38k for Wigan at home on a tuesday night or Fulham at home on a sunday for a game on TV? Probably not. If we sell SMS out for a couple of seasons and are turning people away every week then it's time to expand.

probably not

but I doubt they built SMS with a knowledge that it WOULD sell out week in...week out.

 

IMO we would get what 8 or so games with the demand quite a bit over 32k. throw in a big FA cup game maybe?....

but would our average attendance go up...absolutely

[Turkish]

probably not

but I doubt they built SMS with a knowledge that it WOULD sell out week in...week out.

 

IMO we would get what 8 or so games with the demand quite a bit over 32k. throw in a big FA cup game maybe?....

but would our average attendance go up...absolutely

 

So there would be 10-12 games a season where demand would not be much greater than 32k. Not really a compelling argument to expand so we can hopefully, possibly, maybe sell another 6k tickets 8 times a season.

[Thedelldays]

So there would be 10-12 games a season where demand would not be much greater than 32k. Not really a compelling argument to expand so we can hopefully, possibly, maybe sell another 6k tickets 8 times a season.

 

and not selling out 6 games a season is a problem because...?

would our average attendance be higher..which is I'm sure they base their prices for sponsors, adverts etc etc

[Cabrone]

I think 46K is a big ask for the supporters - I'd say that 36-38K would be adequate for every game even if we were doing well.

 

However they might be thinking of going down the German route - cheap seats, large crowds and packed stadiums.

 

If that were the case I'd say go for it.

[Brussels Saint]

I'm honestly not sure we could ever support more than a 36k capacity, but happy to be proved wrong.

 

Panda's post was interesting and I feel he does make a valid point. So long as if we expand, we do it without raising debt you can make a good case for doing so.

Expansion built on any debt for me, after what happened to us, would be utterly foolhardy.

 

The good news is that NC is no fool. He spent most of his career deciding how to risk very rich men’s wealth and by all accounts was quite good at it.

If we do expand, you can believe it will be built on a fully researched business case rather than some whim.

[Turkish]

and not selling out 6 games a season is a problem because...?

would our average attendance be higher..which is I'm sure they base their prices for sponsors, adverts etc etc

 

Why spend £18m on expanding when there are no guarentees we can fill what we have first?

[Turkish]

I think 46K is a big ask for the supporters - I'd say that 36-38K would be adequate for every game even if we were doing well.

 

However they might be thinking of going down the German route - cheap seats, large crowds and packed stadiums.

 

If that were the case I'd say go for it.

 

 

Do you think Cortese is going to spend millions expanding the stadium then reduces the prices?

[Thedelldays]

Why spend £18m on expanding when there are no guarentees we can fill what we have first?

 

no no..i agree..but then, I never thought they would have just washed their hands with £33m....

fuk knows...but if...BIG IF spending £££ on adding 8k seats was courtesy of the "family" then why the fuk not

[doddisalegend]

no no..i agree..but then, I never thought they would have just washed their hands with £33m....

fuk knows...but if...BIG IF spending £££ on adding 8k seats was courtesy of the "family" then why the fuk not

 

 

Of course that's a different situation if the owners want to spend 18m no strings ( or debt to the club) on extra seats then I don't think anyone would complain.

[Cabrone]

Do you think Cortese is going to spend millions expanding the stadium then reduces the prices?

 

Maybe - really depends on how he went about it.

 

Getting 45K on a regular basis would be a very big ask for a club like SFC so I can't see how he wouldn't have to reduce prices but as long as overall profits increased then from a business case it would be a good thing.

 

A bigger stadium would also allow the club more flexibility to get smarter with ticket prices.

 

Maybe super cheap entry for young kids - the club's future? Maybe graded discounts for those who attend more games? Lots of potential for the marketing department to come up with innovative schemes.

 

Bottom line is could the club generate more profit from a bigger stadium and could they get the sheer numbers in to fill it?

 

I think they could BUT they would have to offer at least some cheaper seats and be very smart with their ticketing price structures.

[suewhistle]

Any ideas, geniuses?

 

Yeah, change your patronising posting style.

[Turkish]

Maybe - really depends on how he went about it.

 

Getting 45K on a regular basis would be a very big ask for a club like SFC so I can't see how he wouldn't have to reduce prices but as long as overall profits increased then from a business case it would be a good thing.

 

A bigger stadium would also allow the club more flexibility to get smarter with ticket prices.

 

Maybe super cheap entry for young kids - the club's future? Maybe graded discounts for those who attend more games? Lots of potential for the marketing department to come up with innovative schemes.

 

Bottom line is could the club generate more profit from a bigger stadium and could they get the sheer numbers in to fill it?

 

I think they could BUT they would have to offer at least some cheaper seats and be very smart with their ticketing price structures.

 

I really dont understand the logic in spending millions in increasing the capacity and then reducing the price. Surely 32k paying £40 each is better than 40k paying £20 each and not spending the £18m it would cost to increase the capacity?

[doddisalegend]

Maybe - really depends on how he went about it.

 

Getting 45K on a regular basis would be a very big ask for a club like SFC so I can't see how he wouldn't have to reduce prices but as long as overall profits increased then from a business case it would be a good thing.

 

A bigger stadium would also allow the club more flexibility to get smarter with ticket prices.

 

Maybe super cheap entry for young kids - the club's future? Maybe graded discounts for those who attend more games? Lots of potential for the marketing department to come up with innovative schemes.

 

Bottom line is could the club generate more profit from a bigger stadium and could they get the sheer numbers in to fill it?

 

I think they could BUT they would have to offer at least some cheaper seats and be very smart with their ticketing price structures.

 

Kids under 11 are free in the family end.....can't get cheaper than that:p

[Wurzel]

Not read whole thread so forgive me if repeating anything.

 

I recall when SMS was built it was budgeted for crowds of 23000. Was this a worst case scenario or was it an attendance figure that was actually expected? Clearly the average was way higher.

 

I also recall that three stands are constructed to make expansion easy. Did the original planning consent include future expansion within certain constraints or would any expansion be subject to new consent?

 

For those that say we'd never fill it, no we wouldn't for every game. But the easier it is to obtain tickets the more habit forming attendance becomes. Crowds pretty much doubled after the move from The Dell to SMS. he Dell used to sell out but the waiting list for tickets certainly wasn't as big as the extra numbers that started turning up once they knew they could get tickets easily .

[Turkish]

Not read whole thread so forgive me if repeating anything.

 

I recall when SMS was built it was budgeted for crowds of 23000. Was this a worst case scenario or was it an attendance figure that was actually expected? Clearly the average was way higher.

 

I also recall that three stands are constructed to make expansion easy. Did the original planning consent include future expansion within certain constraints or would any expansion be subject to new consent?

 

For those that say we'd never fill it, no we wouldn't for every game. But the easier it is to obtain tickets the more habit forming attendance becomes. Crowds pretty much doubled after the move from The Dell to SMS. he Dell used to sell out but the waiting list for tickets certainly wasn't as big as the extra numbers that started turning up once they knew they could get tickets easily .

 

The Dell was clearly too small, we sold out every game, we needed to move or sooner or later to be competitive. I keep hearing that this is the best football we have played in years and what a great time it is to be a Saints fan, yet our averaqe is around 3/4s of capacity when we are top two and heading for our first promotion to the premier league since 1978. On this basis i dont understand why people think we are going to get 20,000 extra fans for a midtable clash with Fulham.

[suewhistle]

So if some people on here were investing in a bigger ground than The Dell, capacity 14k, what would they have been suggesting? At the time I thought Stoneham (25k) would be too small, and so it proved. Brian Hunt the director is reported to have said that they budgeted for SMS (approximately) for a 1/3rd of games at around 18k, a third mid 20s and a third top 20s with the odd sell out. We know that we did a lot better than that, even with a pretty poor on-field product.

 

I too think 45k would be over the top but I'm happy enough with the professionalism of the current management to address the issue rationally, which was never the case before.

[Turkish]

Not read whole thread so forgive me if repeating anything.

 

I recall when SMS was built it was budgeted for crowds of 23000. Was this a worst case scenario or was it an attendance figure that was actually expected? Clearly the average was way higher.

 

I also recall that three stands are constructed to make expansion easy. Did the original planning consent include future expansion within certain constraints or would any expansion be subject to new consent?

 

For those that say we'd never fill it, no we wouldn't for every game. But the easier it is to obtain tickets the more habit forming attendance becomes. Crowds pretty much doubled after the move from The Dell to SMS. he Dell used to sell out but the waiting list for tickets certainly wasn't as big as the extra numbers that started turning up once they knew they could get tickets easily .

 

The Dell was clearly too small, we sold out every game, we needed to move or sooner or later to be competitive. I keep hearing that this is the best football we have played in years and what a great time it is to be a Saints fan, yet our averaqe is around 3/4s of capacity when we are top two and heading for our first promotion to the premier league since 1978. On this basis i dont understand why people think we are going to get 20,000 extra fans for a midtable clash with Fulham.

[Frank's cousin]

Ok putting to bed an personal antagonism, and lets assume that the only motivations of those suggesting the discussion is flawed due lack of understanding of teh basic pimciples of economics - so lets start with a fresh, opne exchange of ideas and concerns.

 

I dont think anyone is suggesting for one moment that its suddenly a good idea to expand, get into a huge debt ofr the sake of club fan ego or whatever - I also dont belive anyone is suggesting its simple a case of build it an d they will come - we simply dont know and judging the demand based on 2003/4 is also flawed in that the economic environment has changed and we have also had several years in which the club has been less a priority to those that made up the number in the prem.

 

We also do NOT have a real understanding of what NC is thinking long term, nor what funds would be availble and from what source that is paying for the Staplewood development , let alone a huge investment required for expansion. So its all guess work from both sides, which is fair enough, but also neither side should be dismissed with a simple dimissive comment (or worse) - I apologise to anyone I amy have offended last night - but it was late, tired and emotional etc.

 

But my point is that IF NC truely is looking at the long term AND that the club must be self funding in the mid term, then the obvious issue is how will teh club ensure it is able to compete? How ill sufficient revenues be generated to ensure we reach the spirational targets he has set?

 

It one thing saving on huge transfer fees by bringing in your home deveoped players, its another having the resources to provide wages that are comparable to keep them + providing the level of success that will make them want to stay... all that needs major increases in revenue.

 

So, we can max out on 32k - and do all the usual commercial projects to squeeze out as much as possible form those that attend games and ensure the price is close the the limit of what is acceptable to fans realtive to the quality of the product.

 

But tha in itself raises a roblem in that it dienfranchise many who cant afford it, and we lose a core or potential core of fans simply through lack of opportunity to attend and become hooked - and yes we cant ignore the impact on our 'brand value' nationally, that a larger facility would ensure - if it were filled week in week out with 40K +

 

So I think the two questions are really simple - How would we afford it (with all the usal issues around relegation as well), and if avalable how would we fill it?

 

I dont know teh answer to part 1, but for part 2, IMHO there is a value in having larger capacity as it allows for a more flexible pricing policy and structure determined by demand - Sell our 40K at £45 when Manure are in town, look to get 35 k through deals and offers when Bolton are in town - an extra 8 k or so over the 26-27k we had v Bolton when last in the prem.

 

Yes as a business if theis worked and we increased the ST level, it migh mean that the club could charge a premium for all matches which again disenfranchises some fans, but sadly that is life.

 

We took 50k+ to Wembley for the tin pot - which shows that there is interest if teh locaction, product and event is of high enough quality. How you translate that level of interest into bums on seeat every week is what the strategic business plan is for - feasibilty, forecasts, models or whatever, but its not just about teh sums, but about assessing whether or not having explored all the marketing avenues aavailable this would generate that level of interest consistently and importantly what happens to that level if we were relegated or teh product quality falls.

 

All those pro are merely suggesting that a couple of decent season in the prem would mean its Worthwhile looking at this form a feasibility perspective - and any good business would be doing that earlier rather than later - as NC has suggested he will rule nothing out, and it would not surprize me if this feasibilty assessment os not part of the current plan - it might be low priority right now, but still part of the development plans.

[Cabrone]

I really dont understand the logic in spending millions in increasing the capacity and then reducing the price. Surely 32k paying £40 each is better than 40k paying £20 each and not spending the £18m it would cost to increase the capacity?

 

Because that's how business works. Supply and demand.

 

If you buy in volume you buy at cheaper prices - just look at how the supermarkets price offers.

 

Same goes for selling, a larger supply will lead to a drop in price unless demand rises to meet the extra supply.

 

If they kept the current ticket prices I don't think demand would rise sufficiently therefore prices would have to come down but that would be OK as long as overall profit went up (after all the expansion financing\admin costs).

 

Selling 48,000 seats @ £20 gives you more revenue than 30,000 seats @ £25 so from the club's perspective they would still make more money + they get a load more fans in generating a more hostile atmosphere (hopefully).

 

That's a very simplistic example, in reality I'm sure there would be lots of offers (like the supermarket) but if done correctly the overall effect should be to increase profit.

 

I think it's possible but they'd be walking a tightrope between making a good profit on a packed stadium vs making a potential loss on an empty stadium.

[Eastcowzer]

If memory serve, when SMS was built the design allowed for reconstruction to a capacity of 52,000 souls.

This included the rebuilding of the Chapel, Kingsland and Northam Stands, although the Itchen Stand would have to remain 'as is', for now.

Perhaps a new design would allow for expanding the Itchen and bring poor old Ted in out of the rain

[70's Mike]

my simple brain, says get it right on the pitch first, stay in prem for a few years, comfortable in mid table,like Stoke, then look at stadium.

previous regimes have forgot that it is a game played on a pitch, buying squad players at cheaper prices will not work, no matter how good NA is

[sotonjoe]

 

I dont know teh answer to part 1, but for part 2, IMHO there is a value in having larger capacity as it allows for a more flexible pricing policy and structure determined by demand - Sell our 40K at £45 when Manure are in town, look to get 35 k through deals and offers when Bolton are in town - an extra 8 k or so over the 26-27k we had v Bolton when last in the prem.

 

 

I think the club can only discount tickets for certain games so much, before fans ( and season ticket holders in particular) begin to question what's going on. Typically, it seems fair for season ticket holders to think they've got the 'best deal' price0wise as a reward for paying up front. You can't reduce match day tickets by too much or too often, as every discount erodes the cost saving offered by the season ticket purchase.

 

By changing with prices too much or too often, you also confuse your pay as you go punters with regards the true value of the product. The comparison here is with those places that sell kitchens or carpet and always seem to have a 50% off sale on. Before you know it, you will have some people who might have gone to games more often now staying away unless their are discount tickets offered. All you get in this situation is bumper crowds for premium games against Man Utd, big crowds for fill your boots ticket prices, and poor crowds for average games where ticket prices are high.

 

Personally, I'd like relatively constant pricing that is in line with the average Prem prices and relatively few discounts throughout the season.

[saint si]

What needs to be remembered is that (ticket volume x ticket price) is a very simplistic measure of the benefits of a bigger stadium.

 

More fans in the ground = more food and drink sold, more programmes etc

More fans in the ground = bigger audience for the in-ground advertising, which means higher rates

More fans in the ground today also means more fans tomorrow buying merchandise, creating a demand for Saints on TV etc ... especially if they are kids.

 

It also carries a halo effect, whereby the club appears to have more prestige, weight, ambition etc - which will assist in both building up a fanbase (including overseas) as well as attracting players to the club.

 

But despite all that, my own view is that this is still some way off...

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Because that's how business works. Supply and demand.

 

If you buy in volume you buy at cheaper prices - just look at how the supermarkets price offers.

 

Same goes for selling, a larger supply will lead to a drop in price unless demand rises to meet the extra supply.

 

If they kept the current ticket prices I don't think demand would rise sufficiently therefore prices would have to come down but that would be OK as long as overall profit went up (after all the expansion financing\admin costs).

 

Selling 48,000 seats @ £20 gives you more revenue than 30,000 seats @ £25 so from the club's perspective they would still make more money + they get a load more fans in generating a more hostile atmosphere (hopefully).

 

That's a very simplistic example, in reality I'm sure there would be lots of offers (like the supermarket) but if done correctly the overall effect should be to increase profit.

 

I think it's possible but they'd be walking a tightrope between making a good profit on a packed stadium vs making a potential loss on an empty stadium.

 

Yes you can increase match days revenues with higher crowds at lower prices BUT;

 

> It is highly unlikely that a £5 reduction in a ticket would generate a significantly larger crowd - certainly not 18k more

> Even if you do succeed in generating more cash over the season you've still got to pay back the loan and interest on the new development. SMS originally cost us £1k per seat. I'd suggest inflation, greater complexity and the disruption to the existing stadium (e.g. losing large parts of the ground during development) would see any new development costing nearer £3k per seat. So increasing our capacity by 16,000 would cost £48m. So you'd be looking at an extra best part of £5m per year in interest and repayment if paid back over 20 years.

> Even if further development is feasible can the local infrastructure cope with an extra 15k people getting to and from the ground?

 

This all points to an increase in SMS capacity being highly unlikely, it just doesn't make economic sense. If we stay in the Prem and start getting better and better then demand for tickets will increase - the response to this will be to increase prices, not extend the ground.

[CB Fry]

As you seem to favour opening or closing your posts with an insult I thought I would mimic you, you’re an economic ignoramus, oh that makes me feel superior. Back to the debate, and a couple of points:

My Example was to illustrate one extreme (you illustrated the other) of the capacity argument the one you are arguing for i.e. that you maximise revenue by controlling the supply this has some merit when market conditions lead to an increase in demand and therefore you are able within limits to set the price high until supply and demand are in equilibrium. This is fine when the supply side cannot be adjusted to meet demand due to real scarcity (diamonds, gold, good wine) I would argue that whilst there is a limit on the amount of supply in terms of football stadia we haven’t come close to reaching it with SM.

Your Apple example is so completely wrong, Apples business model is not based on controlling supply, anyone who wants an apple product could go out and buy one today. The apple model is based on: exclusivity (not the same as demand), market access due to Microsoft dominance and the need to differentiate, first to market with new gizmo’s and first class customer service. It is these business model attributes that allow Apple to set premium prices not the control of demand. For a football club it would be difficult to replicate exclusivity indeed it is the antithesis of what a successful football club should pursue, MU are hardly exclusive but hey they are successful, they attempt to service demand to the maximum possible, (not comparing us to MU, just and example, just in case you do your usual thing and mis-interpret) whereas the phew have tried the exclusivity model by not extending FP and discouraging all but the bestest fans in world, and look where that got them.

To counter your “Most businesses I know do not go out to sell as much of their thing as is humanly possible” conversely most well governed businesses I know (ignoring window cleaners or makers of bespoke furniture etc.) do the opposite, they are occasionally constrained by cash flow or the ability to respond to the market often due to production or resource limitations. I certainly don’t see Tescos or Sainsburys letting there shelves run empty or Fiord or Nissan reigning in car production, unless demand dries up, but they maintain the infrastructure to respond to the upswing in demand

For capital expenditure read capital investment, now let me see, invest for the future, how many times have the majority of Saints fans pointed out that failing to do this is what got the phew to where they are now, the riskiest “investments” in footballers are transfer fees and wages not infrastructure. It wasn’t the SM mortgage that got us into trouble it was relegation and a misguided attempt to buy our way out of the Championship.

Hope that helps I may not be right but I do actually think about what I am saying, since when has the crisp supply been controlled, production is geared to meet demand.

 

Pompey did not try an "exclusivity model" they just didn't bother investing in their stadium.

 

Apple do control supply as part of their model. If Ipads were stacked high in the foyer of Asda at £200 a pop (true universal supply) they'd sell a hell of a lot more than they do now, but they wouldn't make anywhere near as profitably, and long term probably prove to be an error.

 

Pursuing exclusivity in football clubs is actually very sensible. One factor in selling season tickets is that it is a guaranteed seat for the Man United game. If the stadium was so big that Man U tickets could be snapped up by wandering up on the day before, a key incentive to buy a season ticket is gone. Don't underrate exclusivity in football my old son.

 

And maintaining a premium on tickets is also vital. All the bright sparks on here seem determined to massively downvalue cost per seat but this is madness from a business point of view.

 

And building permanent seating on a football stadium is not the same as Tesco or Sainsbury's "planning for an upswing in demand", those flipping seats are there and will be there forever once they are in. I'll repeat again, most businesses including Tesco do not go out to sell as much of their thing as humanly possible. They sell as much as they can as profitably as possible. Massive, massive difference. Churning and churning and churning out more product than anyone really wants is not a sustainable business model.

 

Funnily enough, a 32,000 stadium with 30,000 people paying £50/£55 a ticket probably is perfectly sustainable (after all, their is MASSIVE demand out there according to the geniuses on here) and requires zero capital expenditure whatsoever, so all that cash on the pitch. Lovely.

[CB Fry]

Did anybody suggest "kids for a quid" anywhere in this debate? I must have missed it.

 

Did anybody suggest the notion that the expansion of the stadium was for the pourpose of making tickets cheaper for everyone? Again, I must have missed it.

 

1. Yes, MLG has suggested it before, and yes it always comes up.

 

2. Oh, I see, just cheaper tickets for the 20,000 new people. Of course, silly me. The original fans just carry on paying as normal. Fair enough then.

[sotonjoe]

According to Soccernet, these are the average attendances by club for this season in the Premiership. I googled this purely to get a vague idea of what was the maximum crowd each club could accommodate in order to get some idea about how competitive we would be attendance wise.

 

There's obviously quite a gap between Stoke on about 27k in 11th place and Everton on nearly 33k in 10th and I personally think that we'll be topping Stoke's average attendance. For me, being able to accommodate crowds which could see us averaging the 11th highest crowds in the Prem over a season is perfectly satisfactory in the short term. If our first goal is try and stabilise ourselves as a Prem club, then I don't think that in terms of attendances and the associated match day revenue we will be struggling. I'm sure that once we think we're secure in the Prem, then we will want to increase capacity.

 

[TABLE=class: tablehead, width: 0]

[TR=class: colhead, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD]

 

 

[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Team[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Total[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Average[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-360, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Manchester United[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]1,281,340[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]75,372[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-359, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Arsenal[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]1,019,803[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]59,988[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-361, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Newcastle United[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]844,226[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]49,660[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-382, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Manchester City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]798,592[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]46,976[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-364, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Liverpool[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]716,321[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]44,770[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-363, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Chelsea[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]664,113[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]41,507[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-366, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Sunderland[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]655,593[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]38,564[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-367, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Tottenham Hotspur[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]612,447[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]36,026[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-362, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Aston Villa[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]542,762[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]33,922[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-368, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]10[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Everton[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]559,931[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]32,937[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-336, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]11[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Stoke City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]435,499[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]27,218[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-381, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Norwich City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]451,887[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]26,581[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-380, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]13[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Wolverhampton Wanderers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]437,925[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]25,760[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-370, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]14[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Fulham[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]429,204[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]25,247[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-383, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]15[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]West Bromwich Albion[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]418,823[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]24,636[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-358, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Bolton Wanderers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]376,317[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]23,519[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-365, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]17[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Blackburn Rovers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]379,112[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]22,300[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-318, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]18[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Swansea City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]338,965[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]19,939[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-350, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]19[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Wigan Athletic[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]309,865[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]18,227[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-334, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]20[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Queens Park Rangers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]293,273[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]17,251[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Barclays Premier League - Unofficial Average Attendance: 34,525

[Wurzel]

The Dell was clearly too small, we sold out every game, we needed to move or sooner or later to be competitive. I keep hearing that this is the best football we have played in years and what a great time it is to be a Saints fan, yet our averaqe is around 3/4s of capacity when we are top two and heading for our first promotion to the premier league since 1978. On this basis i dont understand why people think we are going to get 20,000 extra fans for a midtable clash with Fulham.

 

You totally misunderstand or ignore my point (although i am sure that is no accident ) The Dell held and sold out approx 15K. There was a waiting list for STs but it wasn't very big, possibly around 2k. There were no massive queues for the few general sale tickets available for the majority of games. Why? Because many simply accepted that they couldn't get tickets so didn't even try. SMS built. Suddenly all those that would have liked to go to the odd game at The Dell but didn't try to get tickets could go to pretty much any game they liked. In no time they became regulars and several, by no means all, games sold out (talking PL days obviously). It got to the stage where casual fans found it difficult - not impossible - to get tickets, or were unable to sit with mates/family etc. Bear in mind if a ground is 80% full that's not one big empty section, it's lots of ones and twos dotted around all over the place. Anything showing a regular (not EVERY game) attendance above that level should seriously consider expanding. By making it easier for casual fans to attend and get in the habit of attending you will increase the hardcore regular support. (this is of course on the assumption that you don't continuously play ****, get relegated etc). I don't think anyone thinks we would sell out a 40k+ ground for a league game against Fulham, but there's plenty of games that we would do. Simply building to cater for your smallest likely crowd is no different than building a team on the pitch to simply keep ourselves up but not challenge for anything.

 

As for your point that we don't sell out now in this div, ManUre did not sell out OT every game when they were in Old Div 2 (not even close). Did they stop and think the ground was big enough when they were in the top flight ? No they expanded again and again and again and every time more people came. Has any team not increased their attendance after promotion? Bear in mind most will have played attractive football to be in that position. Its a (sad) fact of life that the PL is a bigger crowd puller than other leagues. I do agree there's nothing worse than seeing empty seats but is there any club that has expanded their ground and not seen an increase in attendance?

 

3rd post, over and out

[pingwing]

If you build it, they will come!

 

It applies everywhere except Wigan

[Wes Tender]

1. Yes, MLG has suggested it before, and yes it always comes up.

 

2. Oh, I see, just cheaper tickets for the 20,000 new people. Of course, silly me. The original fans just carry on paying as normal. Fair enough then.

 

1. Ah, so one poster mentioned the kids for a quid. That's a really conclusive groundswell of opinion for that idea then.

 

2. So you can't find any reference to anybody suggesting that the expansion of the stadium was for the purpose of making tickets cheaper for everyone (your quote), so you typically put your own form of spin on your reply to disguise your inability to respond to the question asked. Fair enough then.

[Ken Tone]

Of course what those who say we won't ever get regular attendances above 32k forget , is that soon we really will be the only team in Hampshire, with Portsmouth fans' children growing up supporting us.

 

I'm looking forward to Westwood's kids one day asking him what the tattoos are about and asking him to take them to St Mary's. (Although the thought of him actually procreating is more than a little nauseating)

[doddisalegend]

According to Soccernet, these are the average attendances by club for this season in the Premiership. I googled this purely to get a vague idea of what was the maximum crowd each club could accommodate in order to get some idea about how competitive we would be attendance wise.

 

There's obviously quite a gap between Stoke on about 27k in 11th place and Everton on nearly 33k in 10th and I personally think that we'll be topping Stoke's average attendance. For me, being able to accommodate crowds which could see us averaging the 11th highest crowds in the Prem over a season is perfectly satisfactory in the short term. If our first goal is try and stabilise ourselves as a Prem club, then I don't think that in terms of attendances and the associated match day revenue we will be struggling. I'm sure that once we think we're secure in the Prem, then we will want to increase capacity.

 

[TABLE=class: tablehead, width: 0]

[TR=class: colhead, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD]

 

 

[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Team[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Total[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #FFFFFF]Average[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-360, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Manchester United[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]1,281,340[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]75,372[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-359, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Arsenal[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]1,019,803[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]59,988[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-361, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]3[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Newcastle United[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]844,226[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]49,660[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-382, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Manchester City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]798,592[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]46,976[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-364, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Liverpool[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]716,321[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]44,770[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-363, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]6[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Chelsea[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]664,113[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]41,507[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-366, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Sunderland[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]655,593[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]38,564[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-367, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Tottenham Hotspur[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]612,447[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]36,026[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-362, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Aston Villa[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]542,762[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]33,922[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-368, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]10[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Everton[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]559,931[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]32,937[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-336, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]11[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Stoke City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]435,499[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]27,218[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-381, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Norwich City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]451,887[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]26,581[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-380, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]13[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Wolverhampton Wanderers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]437,925[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]25,760[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-370, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]14[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Fulham[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]429,204[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]25,247[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-383, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]15[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]West Bromwich Albion[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]418,823[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]24,636[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-358, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Bolton Wanderers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]376,317[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]23,519[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-365, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]17[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Blackburn Rovers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]379,112[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]22,300[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-318, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]18[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Swansea City[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]338,965[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]19,939[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: oddrow team-600-350, bgcolor: #FFFFFF]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]19[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: left]Wigan Athletic[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]309,865[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent, align: right]18,227[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: evenrow team-600-334, bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]20[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: left]Queens Park Rangers[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]293,273[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: #F1F1F1, align: right]17,251[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Barclays Premier League - Unofficial Average Attendance: 34,525

 

On what do you base that?

 

Cheapest and most expensive ticket this season at each stadium in the Premier League...

 

 

 

 

Interesting to look at ticket cost vs crowd numbers....Judging that we are somewhere between stoke and everton ticket prices don't need to change much next season.....