St Mary's - What we might expect to see happen (and possibly announced soon)...

[xerox]

at the end of the day if we are going to compete at the level nc wants us to we will need to expand, if we go up, and stay up i think there is a good chance of expanding the kingsland, looking further ahead we may expand some more, depending on a lot of factors, to say this will never happen is being negative, i think we will soon see an application, first stage 8000 on the kingsland to go to 40000, completed by end of 2014.

[CLOTH EARS]

I have always been of the view that IF Saints showed some real ambition in the Premier League then we'd attract crowds of over 45.000. This is doable. I know some of you will think this to be OTT but i am 100% CONVINCED of this. This club has alot of support over a wide area and i think we should start work on turning armchair Saints fans into regular attendees, but only once we have confirmed that there will be a stadium expansion programme. I think we will fill St Marys every week anyhow in our 1st season with the 32.000 capacity. I am going off on a bit of a tangent here but ONCE WE HAVE EXPANDED THE CAPACITY maybe offer new (armchair) supporters a 3 yr season ticket, but the 1st season will be at half price. Season tickets for current season ticket holders could also get a special deal, perhaps offer 3 yr season tickets with the 1st season season at a 75% discount, perhaps we could offer ST holders of 5 years or over the 1st season free? These are the sort of initiatives that 'may' get more new bums on seats and keep exsisting ST holders happy? Those who cannot afford a 3 yr season ticket could still buy a one yr ST at the normal price? Obviously we could re introduce a membership scheme for those who can only afford a limited number of matches.

 

With regards the ambition of the club, apart from 2002/3 we were a bottom half Premier League side, by and large we were closer to the relegation trap door than we were to European qualification. The difference this time is that we have a pretty ambitious chairman and possibly the cash to 'have a go'. If we do secure promotion i think the 1st season will be about striking a balance between not putting the club in a risky financial state and keeping the club up. If we secure a 2nd season then i think we would show even more ambition be it in the transfer market and expanding the stadium and for every year that we are in the Premier League we will be able to build a more solid financial base. Now aswell as the TV Money, gate revenues will be crucial to build this base so the expansion of St Mary's will almost certainly become a major part of the big plan. There really could be some exciting times ahead for Saints IF we stay up in our 1st season. I feel more confident that these sort of things will actually happen with the current ownership.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by CLOTH EARS

[Monkou]

I think scarcity is an important factor for any stadium. Its better to have a 32k sell out than 38k in a 48 stadium.

 

Better in terms of atmosphere and also economically as a higher demand/supply for tickets means they can charge more - obviously not good for fans but a better business model for the club than shelling out for an expensive development and then having to offer cheap tickets just to fill the extra capacity.

[Jonnyboy]

It is an ideal time what with Pompey disapearing off the radar. Bring a few prem stars in and the Hampshire kids will flock to St Mary's!

 

Mwahahahahaaaa!!

[Frank's cousin]

Wolves have built an entirely new 7,700 seater stand from scratch this year for £18m.

 

 

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2012/04/14/gold-seats-for-stan-cullis-stand/

 

Saints would be adding a tier on an existing stand.

 

18mil for that ugly thing? Cortese wears decent tailored suits and has italian style - cant see him agreeing to something as hideous as that even if its cheap....

[Matthew Le God]

It is an ideal time what with Pompey disapearing off the radar. Bring a few prem stars in and the Hampshire kids will flock to St Mary's!

 

Mwahahahahaaaa!!

 

Unlikely any kids from Portsmouth itself, but the border areas may be able to be "converted".

[up and away]

Not so sure about that - a second tier was costed at around £3000 a seat back in 2003/4 - I would make that about £5000 a seat now - meaning an extra 10K is around £50mil.

 

A new spanking 45k stadium would be well in excess of 140mil depending on design - BHA just spent 100mil on 20k!

 

I was not so sure about this when I first heard the estimated costs. But I don't believe it is as straight forward as we all imagine to upgrade to 45k, something I have heard a few times going back to when the stadium was originally built. BHA's build was complicated by having to bury it within the Downs and to fit it into a delicate environment. Cortese has stated in public the possibility of upgrading to 45k either by extending St Mary's OR moving to a new site. Now if Cortese is mentioning a new site within the same breath, I don't believe this would be done with a massive cost differential between the two proposals and why I give credence to other reports I have heard. These being that it is not straight forward to upgrade the stadium and it will cost a lot of money. As with the Dell, I would imagine the sale and development of the existing St Marys would be part of balancing those costs. Bearing in mind the original stadium was ridiculously cheap may have some bearing, but again only a guess.

[Saint137]

Reading have a huge amount of space to expand in comparison to us. Quite tight for land at the Kingsland given you've got to have a certain width of exit ramp for fire regs and its hemmed in by the railway. Easier to lose the two car parks and expand the ends. Quite a challenge to extend the Itchen due to the slope and proximity to the road.

[Sour Mash]

Reading have a huge amount of space to expand in comparison to us. Quite tight for land at the Kingsland given you've got to have a certain width of exit ramp for fire regs and its hemmed in by the railway. Easier to lose the two car parks and expand the ends. Quite a challenge to extend the Itchen due to the slope and proximity to the road.

Think they'd most likely stick it on 'stilts' of some kind.

[dune]

Wasn't Cortese talking of relocation at one point. At the end of the day SMS is a tin pot ground that wouldn't be missed.

[Thedelldays]

Wasn't Cortese talking of relocation at one point. At the end of the day SMS is a tin pot ground that wouldn't be missed.

you will have the likes of illingsworth going MENTAL if NC moves from SMS

[Matthew Le God]

you will have the likes of illingsworth going MENTAL if NC moves from SMS

 

Sounds like a good enough reason to justify moving tomorrow!

[sfc4prem]

Reckon 40,000 would be what it would first be expanded to - then see what happens in the first year after the extension and perhaps think about further extension then (maybe).

[dune]

you will have the likes of illingsworth going MENTAL if NC moves from SMS

 

I would quite like it built in Winchester.

[Matthew Le God]

Wasn't Cortese talking of relocation at one point. At the end of the day SMS is a tin pot ground that wouldn't be missed.

 

"I wouldn't exclude the possibility we would build a complete new stadium somewhere else" - words of Nicola Cortese

 

Interview on 13th March 2010, from 36:00 Cortese is asked about the stadium...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

 

For him to say that, they clearly have HUGE plans for Saints, be it expanding St Mary's or building a new stadium at a huge cost. A new stadium would have to be a lot bigger than 32k to justify moving. A number of Saints fans are underestimating just what the Liebherr/Cortese plan is for this club.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[dune]

"I wouldn't exclude the possibility we would build a complete new stadium somewhere else" - words of Nicola Cortese

 

Interview on 13th March 2010, from 36:00 Cortese is asked about the stadium...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

 

That is the way to go. St Marys for all the good points i.e close to pubs, is a nightmare for traffic after the game. Saints have huge numbers of fans from outside the city and potentially a lot more fans that we could get through the turnstiles if the stadium was easily accesible from the motorway.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

If they expand it I hope that means more bars and no more ridiculous queues

[CB Fry]

I think scarcity is an important factor for any stadium. Its better to have a 32k sell out than 38k in a 48 stadium.

 

Better in terms of atmosphere and also economically as a higher demand/supply for tickets means they can charge more - obviously not good for fans but a better business model for the club than shelling out for an expensive development and then having to offer cheap tickets just to fill the extra capacity.

 

You're wasting your time my son. These people won't listen.Scarcity is one of reasons we'll sell lots of tickets for Bolton or whoever next season.

 

The geniuses blathering on about 40k+ will tell you in all seriousness that we will fill it with slashing ticket prices and doing kids for a quid.

 

When faced with spectacular logic like this, spending vast sums to drive over supply and value per seat DOWN, the only sensible thing to do is point and laugh. It's just nuts.

[Matthew Le God]

You're wasting your time my son. These people won't listen.Scarcity is one of reasons we'll sell lots of tickets for Bolton or whoever next season.

 

The geniuses blathering on about 40k+ will tell you in all seriousness that we will fill it with slashing ticket prices and doing kids for a quid.

 

When faced with spectacular logic like this, spending vast sums to drive over supply and value per seat DOWN, the only sensible thing to do is point and laugh. It's just nuts.

 

What do you make of post #65?

 

Please don't make this personal with petty insults like you normally do when we normally discuss this.

[dune]

You're wasting your time my son. These people won't listen.Scarcity is one of reasons we'll sell lots of tickets for Bolton or whoever next season.

 

The geniuses blathering on about 40k+ will tell you in all seriousness that we will fill it with slashing ticket prices and doing kids for a quid.

 

When faced with spectacular logic like this, spending vast sums to drive over supply and value per seat DOWN, the only sensible thing to do is point and laugh. It's just nuts.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Empty seats means easily getting a ticket and a disincentive to hike prices. For a fans point of view expansion is very good news.

[Thedelldays]

It makes perfect sense to me. Empty seats means easily getting a ticket and a disincentive to hike prices. For a fans point of view expansion is very good news.

if we had a 38k seater stadium.....

would it be sold out every week...probably not..will get many sell outs though through the season

will it mean the average attendance goes up...absolutely....and more £££ over a season

[CB Fry]

It makes perfect sense to me. Empty seats means easily getting a ticket and a disincentive to hike prices. For a fans point of view expansion is very good news.

 

Fine. Just don't talk about it as 'competing' then. Massive stadium with loads of cheap tickets plus a construction bill to pay on top is not going to help us compete.

[Matthew Le God]

if we had a 38k seater stadium would it be sold out every week?...probably not

 

Based on?

 

Saints when finishing 20th in the Premier League and relegated in 2005 averaged 30,610. Hardly an attractive proposition to watch, yet the stadium sold out most weeks. If the side was actually any good more would come. Rupert Lowe didn't invest, Cortese/Liebherr's are.

[Thedelldays]

Based on?

 

Saints when finishing 20th in the Premier League and relegated in 2005 averaged 30,610. Hardly an attractive proposition to watch, yet the stadium sold out most weeks. If the side was actually any good more would come. Rupert Lowe didn't invest, Cortese/Liebherr's are.

my opinion...please, I am not going to go round and round in circles.

 

I just don't think we would sell out EVERY SINGLE game with a 38k stadium.....but would get many sell outs...maybe even 2/3 sell outs with sensible pricing.

but no doubt what so ever, it would increase our average attendance which is a good thing I should imagine

[Sour Mash]

"I wouldn't exclude the possibility we would build a complete new stadium somewhere else" - words of Nicola Cortese

 

Interview on 13th March 2010, from 36:00 Cortese is asked about the stadium...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

 

For him to say that, they clearly have HUGE plans for Saints, be it expanding St Mary's or building a new stadium at a huge cost. A new stadium would have to be a lot bigger than 32k to justify moving. A number of Saints fans are underestimating just what the Liebherr/Cortese plan is for this club.

See this is what annoys me about this debate. I can see us looking at expansion at some point, but you don't half get carried away.

[Matthew Le God]

See this is what annoys me about this debate. I can see us looking at expansion at some point, but you don't half get carried away.

 

Not my words though are they? They are the words of the chairman of the club we both support.

 

Does Cortese have a history of high ambition and no resources to match them? No, the club are currently building a £15 million training ground and category 1 academy facility that wouldn't look out of place at a Champions League club. That development was announced whilst Saints were still in League One.

 

Cortese isn't doing all of this to merely hang about in the bottom half/mid table of the Premier League. He would downsize what is going on at Staplewood if that were the case, and he certainly wouldn't say a stadium relocation was possible, he'd just rule it out straight away.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[dune]

Fine. Just don't talk about it as 'competing' then. Massive stadium with loads of cheap tickets plus a construction bill to pay on top is not going to help us compete.

 

I do think we could add a few thousand to gates by moving out of town. 40-45K in the Premier League wouldn't be too big for us for the big games if we were doing well. There's a lot of money in the region and if there is a product that they want they will come.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by dune

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Note to the Don:

 

Please when you're building your super new Uber St Marys, spare a thought for us poor fans a construct a better footbridge while you're at it. Gwad knows it's hard enough getting in and out of the place with 'only' 32,000 in it !

[scotty]

Well, for a start, there are all the plastic fans to the east of us who will prefer to watch Premiership football at St Mary's, rather than going to Moneyfields to watch the Portsmouth Football Club (2013) Ltd playing at basement league level

 

...so we're gonna need another 20 seats....

[Wes Tender]

You're wasting your time my son. These people won't listen.Scarcity is one of reasons we'll sell lots of tickets for Bolton or whoever next season.

 

The geniuses blathering on about 40k+ will tell you in all seriousness that we will fill it with slashing ticket prices and doing kids for a quid.

 

When faced with spectacular logic like this, spending vast sums to drive over supply and value per seat DOWN, the only sensible thing to do is point and laugh. It's just nuts.

 

The situation is the same with other industries where hotels will sell empty rooms at a heavy discount, or airlines will discount seats. In the case of the hotel industry, they anticipate making money from takings in the bar or restaurant. In terms of a Saints stadium expansion, it's really quite a simple concept, based on the economics of it having been assessed to make a reasonable profit at a certain capacity and then beyond that it is preferable to have the extra bums on seats because of the ancilliary income generated by merchandising and refreshment sales in the concourse. The general principle of attracting the youngsters to attend with their parents is also a good strategy, as they will then become the addicted fans of the future. As already mentioned elsewhere, there would be a considerable expansion of the corporate facilities, where a lot of additional revenue could be generated.

 

I expect that the main financial genius blathering on about the possibilities of expansion, is Nicola Cortese, who would have to have the blessing of the Liebherr family. So if it comes to pointing at them, laughing and calling them nuts, then go ahead. But could you please kindly remind me what your qualifications are that enables you to laugh at a high level banker and a family whose business make billions? Because as it stands, I feel more inclined to believe them than you and your fellow naysayers.

[Matthew Le God]

I expect that the main financial genius blathering on about the possibilities of expansion, is Nicola Cortese, who would have to have the blessing of the Liebherr family. So if it comes to pointing at them, laughing and calling them nuts, then go ahead. But could you please kindly remind me what your qualifications are that enables you to laugh at a high level banker and a family whose business make billions? Because as it stands, I feel more inclined to believe them than you and your fellow naysayers.

 

I think this sums it up very well.

[LGTL]

We can barely sell 4000 for our biggest game in years (yes it might be away but I don't give a sh*t), so quite how we are going to sell 40,000 for Bolton or Wigan at home on a cold, wet, miserable November/December/January/February evening when we are 16th god only knows.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by LGTL

[Matthew Le God]

We can barely sell 4000 for our biggest games in years

 

Has the game kickoff already? Still time to sell them, in any case yes we might be promoted, but it is still in Middlesbrough and live on TV so even if 3,000 go that is a good turnout.

 

Saints took 5,800 to Palace and 3,400 to Peterborough in the last two away matches. The last three home games in the second tier have seen 30k, 31k and 31k. Not many English clubs could do that.

 

How we are going to sell 40,000 for Bolton at home on a cold, wet, miserable November/December/January/February evening when we are 16th god only knows.

 

The last time Saints played Bolton in a league game was in 2004/05 when Saints finished 20th and were relegated. It was a sellout in the home end (not the away end), with a total attendance of 30,713. Imagine now if Saints had some decent players rather than the dross we had that season.

Edited 19 April, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[MadDogMatt]

MLG and Wes are right, the ambition of the club is massive Lets park that for now and get promoted Then we jump forward again Enjoy the ride

[Wes Tender]

We can barely sell 4000 for our biggest game in years (yes it might be away but I don't give a sh*t), so quite how we are going to sell 40,000 for Bolton or Wigan at home on a cold, wet, miserable November/December/January/February evening when we are 16th god only knows.

 

You mean the game at the other end of the country that is also on the telly? I'm a long term season ticket holder and won't be going. But would I go if it was a home game even on the telly, even on a weekday night? You bet I would. We're talking about attendances at home, so what has an away match got to do with it?

 

As for the other games in the Premiership against lower placed sides, that should have phased pricing as it was last time around. Your Wigans, Boltons, etc, would be bronze games, priced accordingly. The capacity won't be to sell out the stadium at every game against the likes of them; it will be to fill it against the gold teams, where corporate hospitality will also make a killing.

[Wes Tender]

MLG and Wes are right, the ambition of the club is massive Lets park that for now and get promoted Then we jump forward again Enjoy the ride

 

Yes, you're quite right. A win or two draws, or maybe one draw will suffice. Frankly, having come this far, it doesn't bear thinking about if we were to fail now.

[moonraker]

There is little doubt that NC is ambitious, Staplewood attests to this. There have been many posts on here about catchment area and potential, expansion has little to do with us current fans it is all about new fans and armchair fans. Whilst the ubber fans will moan and criticise it is this constituency that must be cattered for and attracted to the SM and the only way is to provide more opportunity to get tickets. The Reading plans are of real significance to us, our catchment areas overlap and non committed fans who want to watch premiership football will watch the club that provides easiest access and the best facilities. When we moved from the Dell few thought we would average over 30k (in the prem) at SM, they got that wrong, the only way we will find out what level of support we can sustain is to expand and expand as soon as possible.

[LGTL]

Has the game kickoff already? Still time to sell them, in any case yes we might be promoted, but it is still in Middlesbrough and live on TV so even if 3,000 go that is a good turnout.

 

Saints took 5,800 to Palace and 3,400 to Peterborough in the last two away matches. The last three home games in the second tier have seen 30k, 31k and 31k. Not many English clubs could do that.

 

 

 

The last time Saints played Bolton in a league game was in 2004/05 when Saints finished 20th and were relegated. It was a sellout in the home end (not the away end), with a total attendance of 30,713. Imagine now if Saints had some decent players rather than the dross we had that season.

 

Let's have a look at some of our home attendances this season, a season where we haven't been out of the top 2 all season...

 

Forest - 24k

Brum - 22k

Watford - 23k

Peterborough - 21k

Hull - 22k

Blackpool - 22k

Leicester - 21k

Cardiff - 24k

Burnley - 24k

Derby - 24k

Ipswich - 23k

Barnsley - 24k

 

I just can't believe that we are going to see upwards of an extra 15,000 people suddenly flooding to a nothing game against some crap in the PL just because it's a PL game. I guess we'll see if it ever happens....

[CB Fry]

The situation is the same with other industries where hotels will sell empty rooms at a heavy discount, or airlines will discount seats. In the case of the hotel industry, they anticipate making money from takings in the bar or restaurant. In terms of a Saints stadium expansion, it's really quite a simple concept, based on the economics of it having been assessed to make a reasonable profit at a certain capacity and then beyond that it is preferable to have the extra bums on seats because of the ancilliary income generated by merchandising and refreshment sales in the concourse. The general principle of attracting the youngsters to attend with their parents is also a good strategy, as they will then become the addicted fans of the future. As already mentioned elsewhere, there would be a considerable expansion of the corporate facilities, where a lot of additional revenue could be generated.

 

I expect that the main financial genius blathering on about the possibilities of expansion, is Nicola Cortese, who would have to have the blessing of the Liebherr family. So if it comes to pointing at them, laughing and calling them nuts, then go ahead. But could you please kindly remind me what your qualifications are that enables you to laugh at a high level banker and a family whose business make billions? Because as it stands, I feel more inclined to believe them than you and your fellow naysayers.

 

 

None of us really know what is being planned.

 

Comparing a football club to a discount airline or hotel group really is nuts, unless the headcount costs of Easyjet is running at 93% of turnover. Those business are run as close to the bone as is humanly possible, a business model that is as far removed from a football club as you can possibly get.

 

Being that we have been running massively under capacity this season, how come the club did so little to attract these little kiddie-winkie future supporters this season? We had 6,000 odd seats to play with for the last eight months or so to do just that.

 

Why do we have to build seats to get these loyal supporters of the future through the door when we could have been aiming for maxing out the stadium with them this season? Just asking. Nothing in anything Cortese has so far done has shown a particular desire to devalue his product to bring people in, so I doubt that kids for a quid or anything like it is particularly on his radar.

 

And I can question Cortese if I like, just like people on here question Adkins, or players, or previous managers, or polititians or anything. It's an internet message board, I'm dishing out opinions as creatively as I can to wind people like you up. So point and laugh, at you, I will.

[CB Fry]

the only way we will find out what level of support we can sustain is to expand and expand as soon as possible.

 

 

No it isn't. It's a way, but it is a freaking mental way.

 

A more efficient way to do it is to see how many season tickets we can sell - is it 20,000 - not sure we have ever done that. Is it 24,000, which would be a really good indication of a maxed out stadium. Can we do that two seasons in a row. This may then tell us what our base level of support is.

 

Another way is to put £5 on the ticket price. Then another £5. Then another £5. Lots of lovely cash to reinvest, and if we have this massive demand for tickets, no problem because all these fans just north of Basingstoke desperate to see us play Bolton on a Monday night will be ripping each others throats out for a ticket.

 

Building additional seating as some kind of test to see how many fans we can fit in really really is mental beyond belief.

[Frank's cousin]

Forgetting about the relative level of realsim etc for a moment, there are two seperat issues at stake here; hyperthetically anyway: 1) expansion or new ground is £££££ and that needs funding from a club that has stated it wants to be self sustaining

 

and 2) a larger capacity - would we fill it often enough to justify it?

 

 

Well, al hypothetically of course, there are a couple of ways of looking at this. Do you build extra capacity AFTER you have created a demand, thus missing out on 2-3 years of additioanl revenue while you wait for it to be built, or do you build in advance in anticipation of the demand to ensure it ready when needed? and then ensure your marketing, value and quality of entertainment is enough to drive the demand?

 

Secondly, funding: The quotes form ML and NC were about creatinga self sustaing premiership club able to be competitive in the premier league - now suspend teh cynicism for a moment - what would any club need to be self sustaining in the prem...and be competitive? Revenue form gate as large as possible, and if not subsidised by huge volume sof cash annually, income generated through player sales and reducing costs of incoming transfer budget but developing your own talent in greater numbers... we have seen that ML and NC have to date not been shy of investing 18mil over 3 years to get us close to promotion (18 + 15 mil purchase is teh 33 mil equity investment) + we have started building 15 mil academy and traing ground upgrade... which would suggest that a plan was in place andprovsion made for additioanl investment as a one off to build infrastructure ....for self sustainability.... So it would not be beyond teh relms of plausibilty that funding provison has been made for stadium expansion should it be necessary in the future. The issue is, it its necessary if the club wants self sustaining competitiveness....

[CB Fry]

You mean the game at the other end of the country that is also on the telly? I'm a long term season ticket holder and won't be going. But would I go if it was a home game even on the telly, even on a weekday night? You bet I would. We're talking about attendances at home, so what has an away match got to do with it?

 

Tell your mate.

 

Saints took 5,800 to Palace and 3,400 to Peterborough in the last two away matches.

 

 

[Matthew Le God]

Let's have a look at some of our home attendances this season, a season where we haven't been out of the top 2 all season...

 

Forest - 24k

Brum - 22k

Watford - 23k

Peterborough - 21k

Hull - 22k

Blackpool - 22k

Leicester - 21k

Cardiff - 24k

Burnley - 24k

Derby - 24k

Ipswich - 23k

Barnsley - 24k

 

I just can't believe that we are going to see upwards of an extra 15,000 people suddenly flooding to a nothing game against some crap in the PL just because it's a PL game. I guess we'll see if it ever happens....

 

See my point re the Bolton game you used as an example.

[Matthew Le God]

Tell your mate.

 

You have taken that completely out of the context it was written in. I was replying to someone that brought up away attendances.

[LGTL]

See my point re the Bolton game you used as an example.

 

Yes we sold 30k. That's not the question though, the question is whether we'd have sold 40k.

[Frank's cousin]

No it isn't. It's a way, but it is a freaking mental way.

 

A more efficient way to do it is to see how many season tickets we can sell - is it 20,000 - not sure we have ever done that. Is it 24,000, which would be a really good indication of a maxed out stadium. Can we do that two seasons in a row. This may then tell us what our base level of support is.

 

Another way is to put £5 on the ticket price. Then another £5. Then another £5. Lots of lovely cash to reinvest, and if we have this massive demand for tickets, no problem because all these fans just north of Basingstoke desperate to see us play Bolton on a Monday night will be ripping each others throats out for a ticket.

 

Building additional seating as some kind of test to see how many fans we can fit in really really is mental beyond belief.

 

... Steve Jobs was a master of ignoring what the market was teling him and developoing technologies that we did not know we would want... its not about predicting demand, but about creating it. Its simple maths. We can not and will not be competitive in any sense in teh PL without cash. ML and NC both stated they want Saints to be self sustainig in the prem in future - its a clear aim. For that you need increased gate receipts - for that you need capacity first - and then a bloody good plan to ensure you can fill it.

 

The problem will be if we are struggling a bit on the pitch for a few years, all thos 'want it now' types who dont have the patience for teh infrastructure investment to yield results and start saying we should have spent that 15 mil on players and wages, not teh academy, and the same with any future satdium investment ... quickly forgetting that, that is exactly what Portsmuff did....

[Matthew Le God]

Yes we sold 30k. That's not the question though, the question is whether we'd have sold 40k.

 

That game was a home end sellout, the empty seats were in the Bolton end. How do you know they wouldn't have sold 40k? Plus that was in a season where Saints were terrible and were relegated so hardly an attractive proposition to watch. If Cortese establishes Saints as a top half side again more will want to come. If 30k turn up to watch a poor Saints side soon to be relegated against an unglamorous side like Bolton, more than 30k will come if Saints had some decent players to entertain the "plastic" fans.

[Sour Mash]

... Steve Jobs was a master of ignoring what the market was teling him and developoing technologies that we did not know we would want... its not about predicting demand, but about creating it. Its simple maths. We can not and will not be competitive in any sense in teh PL without cash. ML and NC both stated they want Saints to be self sustainig in the prem in future - its a clear aim. For that you need increased gate receipts - for that you need capacity first - and then a bloody good plan to ensure you can fill it.

 

The problem will be if we are struggling a bit on the pitch for a few years, all thos 'want it now' types who dont have the patience for teh infrastructure investment to yield results and start saying we should have spent that 15 mil on players and wages, not teh academy, and the same with any future satdium investment ... quickly forgetting that, that is exactly what Portsmuff did....

Ha ha! For increased revenue, you need increased capacity. Not really, no.

[moonraker]

No it isn't. It's a way, but it is a freaking mental way.

 

A more efficient way to do it is to see how many season tickets we can sell - is it 20,000 - not sure we have ever done that. Is it 24,000, which would be a really good indication of a maxed out stadium. Can we do that two seasons in a row. This may then tell us what our base level of support is.

 

Another way is to put £5 on the ticket price. Then another £5. Then another £5. Lots of lovely cash to reinvest, and if we have this massive demand for tickets, no problem because all these fans just north of Basingstoke desperate to see us play Bolton on a Monday night will be ripping each others throats out for a ticket.

 

Building additional seating as some kind of test to see how many fans we can fit in really really is mental beyond belief.

 

You very conveniently ignore the fact that we more than doubled our capacity when we moved from the Dell, if your logic had been applied we would have built a smaller stadium than we did.Ccontrolling supply when demand is high is a high risk strategy and not very common, why not have a 10k stadium (a lot less overhead) and charge £200 a seat? a bit far fetched i Know but it illustrates my point. I want to give the maximum number of fans the chance to watch the saints at affordable prices.

[egg]

Jesus MLG, why must you drag this up every now and again? It's been done to death.

 

Your best point ( and it's a bad one) is to point to what reading and wolves have done. We are not them so the reference is meaningless.

 

It's also been made clear that the return on the cost of expansion just isn't there.

 

Our club nearly died as a result of expenditure above income, primarily on the back of a stadium.

 

We have been rescued by prudent business people who will not risk our future on a costly expansion that we do not need, and more importantly is not commercially viable.