John McGrath's Jockstrap Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 This has been a perennial problem for the last 3-4 years. We have had a succession of different players at RB and LB none of which have really claimed the position as their own. The current LB incumbent Fox has looked OK but would not convince in the Prem and Harding is better defensively (in my opinion) but no way Prem class. Similarly, although Richardson has had the RB slot most of the season he again has not really made the position his own - not Prem class (his first touch can be shocking) , and Butterfield - great distribution but poor defensive positioning - so again neither would cut it in the Prem. We have 2 outstanding young talents at LB and RB - Luke Shaw and Jack Stephens. At what point are these 2 going to get properly blooded in the first team?. It would be a baptism of fire to chuck them straight in at Prem level , but they need bigger game experience to develop, and it has seemed to be a missed opportunity this season. So when is the right time if the current first teamers are not doing it?....Thoughts all?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Good questions in my opinion. Was Harding a free transfer as a matter of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 I know where you're coming from, but I really wouldn't want any inexperienced players blooded in the remaining games of this season, there's nothing to suggest they are better that the current incumbents, and the consequences could be disasterous given our current situation. I guess the thing to do with them is (assuming we get promoted) is to send them on loan to Championship clubs, or see how we fare in the Prem, if we are struggling, then give them ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Personally, I think there are question marks over both first choice fullbacks and whether they would cut it for us in the Prem; irrespective of whether or not Fox has already had a go with Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 We have 2 outstanding young talents at LB and RB - Luke Shaw and Jack Stephens. At what point are these 2 going to get properly blooded in the first team?. It would be a baptism of fire to chuck them straight in at Prem level , but they need bigger game experience to develop, and it has seemed to be a missed opportunity this season. So when is the right time if the current first teamers are not doing it?....Thoughts all?. yes - a good question ..however, I do think that both Fox and Richardson might fare a bit better than you seem to suggest (in Prem.) Of course... we like to see young talent come on, but unless someone is brave enough to say that Shaw and Stephens are upto the standard of ...say Gareth Bale was at that age..then I seriously doubt that we are likely to see either of them "blooded " in the opening game of the season against (say) Man.City or Chelsea (should we get promotion). But in time, coming into a strong side ..they will obviously fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 I know where you're coming from, but I really wouldn't want any inexperienced players blooded in the remaining games of this season, there's nothing to suggest they are better that the current incumbents, and the consequences could be disasterous given our current situation. I guess the thing to do with them is (assuming we get promoted) is to send them on loan to Championship clubs, or see how we fare in the Prem, if we are struggling, then give them ago. That is absolutely not the thing to do!!! No way should a young player be brought into a struggling team. You cant be relying on kids to help you out of a mess and it's not fair to expect them to. If we go up they should be loaned out to championship clubs or play in cup games or brought on when a game is won to give them a taste for it. It's then down to them to prove they are ready and for the manager to see how they react. Arent they both still only 17 & 18? In reality both could probably benefit from a season out on loan anyway to get games under their belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 I think Richardson and Fox will be fine in the Prem if we go up as I don't think that they are significantly worse than the full backs of most mid table teams. Sure they can be improved upon and if the cash is there it would be great to see comptition brought it as both Harding and Butterfield are unlikely to make too many starts. I'm more interested in seeing real competion brought in at CB where we will need at least one new addition to replace Jaidi and possibly Seaborne if he doesn't recover / make progress to Prem level following his injury. I think both Shaw and Stephens are for the future and will have the opportunity to get game time out on loan before challenging for first team slots with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 NA and his team watch these kids in training and I believe if they were good enough they would be in squad. defenders tend to become regulars at a slightly older age than forwards, maybe because a mistake made up front may not be as serious in terms of a result. Other than Mark Wright, Jason Dodd i cannot remember to many other young defenders. I also think if we had been mid table this season they may have had a better chance, one thing is for sure they will not get a game in the last 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAndy14 Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Good questions in my opinion. Was Harding a free transfer as a matter of interest? Yes he was and so was Butterfield. Richardson came in on the cheap too - Fox is our only expensive FB signing of the current four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Personally, I think there are question marks over both first choice fullbacks and whether they would cut it for us in the Prem; irrespective of whether or not Fox has already had a go with Burnley. Agree with this......in fact question marks over the whole defence IF we go up.......but lets worry about that later :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 NA and his team watch these kids in training and I believe if they were good enough they would be in squad. defenders tend to become regulars at a slightly older age than forwards, maybe because a mistake made up front may not be as serious in terms of a result. Other than Mark Wright, Jason Dodd i cannot remember to many other young defenders. I also think if we had been mid table this season they may have had a better chance, one thing is for sure they will not get a game in the last 3 Gareth Bale, now didn't he play at left back? What age was Baird when he was playing for us? My old school mate Paul Bennett couldn't have been a grandad either, I was 17 when he made his debut for Saints first team so he must have been about 20. If you're good enough your old enough,Saints have always proved that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Gareth Bale, now didn't he play at left back? What age was Baird when he was playing for us? My old school mate Paul Bennett couldn't have been a grandad either, I was 17 when he made his debut for Saints first team so he must have been about 20. If you're good enough your old enough,Saints have always proved that. Gareth Bale is slightly different, we are talking about one of the best left sided players in the world FFS!! Baird was 21 when he played in the cup final and then hardly played again until we were relegated, so 24 and in the championship before a regular. Like 70's Mike says, really not that young at all and certainly a couple of years at least older than both of our current young full backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Our full backs are under rated in my opinion, they are a key cog in how we play. Richardson, although he's dipped in recent weeks due to injury, has been one of our best players this year. 13 odd assists says it all. Fox frustrates me because he has talent and is very nifty with the ball at his feet, who also has a wand of a left peg - but we don't see that consistently enough. Good enough though. We pobably need 2 new full backs to push these 2 on a bit more, but they'll probably be regulars next season no matter what league we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Gareth Bale, now didn't he play at left back? What age was Baird when he was playing for us? My old school mate Paul Bennett couldn't have been a grandad either, I was 17 when he made his debut for Saints first team so he must have been about 20. If you're good enough your old enough,Saints have always proved that. Bale and Baird I will give you, sorry but i never rated your old school mate. your last sentence supports my argument I believe the kids mentioned by others are not yet good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Bale and Baird I will give you, sorry but i never rated your old school mate. your last sentence supports my argument I believe the kids mentioned by others are not yet good enough As you like, Paul was a no nonsense Centre Half to be sure but he did play a lot of First Division games and got by against Chivers,Osgood and Worthington amongst others.Lawrie obviously saw something in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Charlton disclosed Richardson's fee too. So: Richardson - £450k Butterfield - £0 Fox - £1.8m Harding - £0 4 FB's for £2.25m isn't too bad, and they have either been useful in L1, or have continued to be since. Good signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McGrath's Jockstrap Posted 16 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 16 April, 2012 A lot has been said in the press about the "Southampton Way".....emulating the Barcelona approach. My point would be that farming these 2 out to average Championship sides on loan might not be the best developmental step for them......better to develop and monitor carefully in house. I also take Turkish's point that dropping them in prematurely would not be the way to go - however more starts in the right fixtures this season may have helped (Jamie Ward Prowse also in this category) - not only their development but intensify competition for first team places AND to rest regulars (our defence/ Hammond looked very leggy against Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 That is absolutely not the thing to do!!! No way should a young player be brought into a struggling team. You cant be relying on kids to help you out of a mess and it's not fair to expect them to. I could have phrased it better, when I typed "we" I meant the established fullbacks, not the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 16 April, 2012 Share Posted 16 April, 2012 Personally, I think we've had outstanding production and performances from full back this season. I can't understand this obsession with thinking we are weak there. The stats I think prove it; 30+ league assists from players playing full back and third best defense. Thinking of the long term future, I think with Shaw and Stephens we've got full back covered for years to come. Shaw looks amazing. Stephens very good, but isn't he being looked at as a centre half now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 17 April, 2012 Share Posted 17 April, 2012 we still have one of the best defensive records in this league - though it's easy to highlight the real howlers that occur..but most of the time they are quite dependable. As for the new recruits...with rare exception..the real successes over many years have come from younger players fitting into a balanced side, and it's certainly no idea to put in untried players unless there is a real injury problem and you have no other choice. Such was the case with Baird as I recall, and in his case - it worked. When our Double Dutch pair put in half of team of teenagers - it was on instructions from on high - and because we didn't have funds to do otherwise. That didn't work so well - did it ? - and probably Lallana and Schneiderlin are the only survivors of that adventure. I'm sure we will see them all debuted - in time - but later on ...and surely not NOW ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 17 April, 2012 Share Posted 17 April, 2012 For the lower league levels we've been at, I think our full backs have been just fine. Blooding the youngsters will take some management though - especially if we're in the Premiership when we have to do it. Adkins has a lot of work on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 17 April, 2012 Share Posted 17 April, 2012 It's unfair to rate Fox and Butterfield on performances against Reading on Friday... I would back our defence against most teams below 8th in the Premiership. And frankly 17th would be good enough in season one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 17 April, 2012 Share Posted 17 April, 2012 Our full backs are under rated in my opinion, they are a key cog in how we play. Richardson, although he's dipped in recent weeks due to injury, has been one of our best players this year. 13 odd assists says it all. Fox frustrates me because he has talent and is very nifty with the ball at his feet, who also has a wand of a left peg - but we don't see that consistently enough. Good enough though. We pobably need 2 new full backs to push these 2 on a bit more, but they'll probably be regulars next season no matter what league we're in. Why the acceptance of very average or below players as being 'good enough'......................???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 April, 2012 Share Posted 17 April, 2012 Why the acceptance of very average or below players as being 'good enough'......................???? There's not an acceptance of anything, I'm just being honest in my views and they've been fine this year. If you don't think that then fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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