Popping the question

[Turkish]

What's that got to do with marriage? And what about widowed parents - are their children going to turn into littl f*ckers?

 

widowed parents is totally different, they haven't chosen not to stay together have they! Its better for a child to have both parents around, I know it doesn't fit in with your attempts to be cool but that is how it is.

[Turkish]

So what we are saying is everyone on this thread thinks asking the FIL for his aproval is absolutely the correct thing to do apart from BTF who thinks it makes the lady chattel and a possession to give away. I'm not suggesting she has a chip on her shoulder it but.............

[bridge too far]

widowed parents is totally different, they haven't chosen not to stay together have they! Its better for a child to have both parents around, I know it doesn't fit in with your attempts to be cool but that is how it is.

 

But that doesn't mean they have to be married though, does it.

 

So your logic dictates that if a child is raised in a single parent family because one of the parents has died, then that child will grow up OK. However if, for whatever reason, the parents decide to live apart, then that child will turn into a little f*cker.

 

You didn't look at your backside after all to see if it was talking, did you.

 

And, FYI, I don't attempt to be cool. I don't attempt to be anything other than myself. I don't even know what 'being cool' means with reference to my thoughts and actions.

[Turkish]

But that doesn't mean they have to be married though, does it.

 

So your logic dictates that if a child is raised in a single parent family because one of the parents has died, then that child will grow up OK. However if, for whatever reason, the parents decide to live apart, then that child will turn into a little f*cker.

 

You didn't look at your backside after all to see if it was talking, did you.

 

And, FYI, I don't attempt to be cool. I don't attempt to be anything other than myself. I don't even know what 'being cool' means with reference to my thoughts and actions.

 

Oh dear, not getting it are you. Having observed my friends children some of which are still together and some of them aren't, I can honestly say the children with the parents who are together are happier than the ones that aren't. In fact a good friend of mine only keeps their marriage together because when they split up for a while the little boy was very unhappy, despite how they feel about each other the happiness of their child is the priority. All very Victorian I know but it seems to be the case in my experience.

[bridge too far]

So what we are saying is everyone on this thread thinks asking the FIL for his aproval is absolutely the correct thing to do apart from BTF who thinks it makes the lady chattel and a possession to give away. I'm not suggesting she has a chip on her shoulder it but.............

.

Hmmm - let's think about tradition, custom, practice......... because the definition of 'tradition' shows that these three are the same.

 

Once, it was tradition to observe one minute's silence on Armistice Day. Nowadays, people observe one, two or even three minutes' silence for all manner of death and injury. In fact, it's often not even silence any more, but applause. See how tradition gets manipulated to be relevant to the modern world?

 

TDD's OP was about proposing and it developed into the 'tradition' of asking the bride's father for 'permission' to marry. My observation was that such a tradition is based on the assumption that the woman was her father's property (chattel = personal property) and has its roots in dowries etc. So, just like the tradition of the one minute's silence, it's outdated.

 

As it happens, I've had a much greater input, both emotionally and financially, into my daughter's life, health, education, support and well-being than her father ever has (I'm not blaming him BTW since I left him) so you could argue that I've more of a claim to give her away than he has. But she doesn't want to be actually given away and I rather think that's up to her, don't you? There won't be a 'best man' either. My SiL's 13 year old son from his first marriage will simply be by his father's side because that's what they want too.

 

You see, my children are able to see through hype and outdated customs. They make their own minds up about what's important to them and I think that's great.

[bridge too far]

Oh dear, not getting it are you. Having observed my friends children some of which are still together and some of them aren't, I can honestly say the children with the parents who are together are happier than the ones that aren't. In fact a good friend of mine only keeps their marriage together because when they split up for a while the little boy was very unhappy, despite how they feel about each other the happiness of their child is the priority. All very Victorian I know but it seems to be the case in my experience.

 

 

Oh dear, you're the one not getting it. I agree it's better if the parents are together BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE MARRIED.

 

And you make no allowances for relationships where there's abuse and violence (such as that poor woman who had her eyes gouged out). You reckon children are still happier when living in that sort of environment?

 

Are you married with children? Take it from one who knows - children are happier in a happy household, whether that's with one or two parents, than they are in a miserable environment. You ask my children.

[Turkish]

.

Hmmm - let's think about tradition, custom, practice......... because the definition of 'tradition' shows that these three are the same.

 

Once, it was tradition to observe one minute's silence on Armistice Day. Nowadays, people observe one, two or even three minutes' silence for all manner of death and injury. In fact, it's often not even silence any more, but applause. See how tradition gets manipulated to be relevant to the modern world?

 

TDD's OP was about proposing and it developed into the 'tradition' of asking the bride's father for 'permission' to marry. My observation was that such a tradition is based on the assumption that the woman was her father's property (chattel = personal property) and has its roots in dowries etc. So, just like the tradition of the one minute's silence, it's outdated.

 

As it happens, I've had a much greater input, both emotionally and financially, into my daughter's life, health, education, support and well-being than her father ever has (I'm not blaming him BTW since I left him) so you could argue that I've more of a claim to give her away than he has. But she doesn't want to be actually given away and I rather think that's up to her, don't you? There won't be a 'best man' either. My SiL's 13 year old son from his first marriage will simply be by his father's side because that's what they want too.

 

You see, my children are able to see through hype and outdated customs. They make their own minds up about what's important to them and I think that's great.

 

How is the courtesy of asking a father for his approval to marry his daughter hype? For many fathers their daughters wedding is one of the most important and proud days In their lives. It certainly was for my FIL.

[Turkish]

Oh dear, you're the one not getting it. I agree it's better if the parents are together BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE MARRIED.

 

And you make no allowances for relationships where there's abuse and violence (such as that poor woman who had her eyes gouged out). You reckon children are still happier when living in that sort of environment?

 

Are you married with children? Take it from one who knows - children are happier in a happy household, whether that's with one or two parents, than they are in a miserable environment. You ask my children.

 

Who said they had to be married? It's you that keeps banging on about how great it is just to live together.

 

Obviously there will always be cases, such as where abuse and violence mean couples shouldn't stay together, yet you agree it's best for the child in general if they do.

 

Thanks for pointing out children will be happier in a happy household. BTF - giving lessons in the bleeding obvious.

[bridge too far]

How is the courtesy of asking a father for his approval to marry his daughter hype? For many fathers their daughters wedding is one of the most important and proud days In their lives. It certainly was for my FIL.

 

Some people do things because they're told that that's the way of things and they should adhere to how it's always been.

 

Others think things through and come to a rational decision that the' way of things' isn't necessarily applicable today. If you can't understand that, then you're very narrow minded.

 

As I said earlier, if they'd wanted an all singing, all dancing, traditional wedding, I'd have supported them because it would have been their choice. But, to them, ostentation and tradition are irrelevant to their lives.

 

Her father also completely supports their decision.

[pap]

Cards on the table, I am not married. As someone who went about life in completely the wrong way ( one child on the planet before the age of 21, kids ) it has always been a secondary concern to the actual raising of children.

 

However, that's not to say the subject hasn't come up. Think the main thing is that you need to know the person you're asking is going to say yes. All other considerations are secondary really.

 

Don't really agree with asking the Dad. I know it's traditional, but let's face it - some traditions suck. The idea of asking the father ( and indeed, the whole notion of giving the bride away ) dates back to a time when women were considered male property. Not something I am entirely onboard with.

 

Plus, you're doing them a favour anyway. "Hallo. Would you mind awfully if I kept and fed your darling daughter forever?".

 

The only person you should be asking is yourself and your prospective bride.

 

Doing it in front of a group of friends is a recipe for disaster imo. The amount of stuff people don't know about their own relationships ( particularly if they are in some way deluded ) is staggering.

[bridge too far]

Who said they had to be married? It's you that keeps banging on about how great it is just to live together.

 

Obviously there will always be cases, such as where abuse and violence mean couples shouldn't stay together, yet you agree it's best for the child in general if they do.

 

Thanks for pointing out children will be happier in a happy household. BTF - giving lessons in the bleeding obvious.

 

Yes I do agree it's better for children if the parents are together - I've never said otherwise so thanks for pointing out to me something I've already said.

 

You're the one who implied couples should be married, in quoting the Telegraph article. My own view is that a piece of paper doesn't necessarily mean that that family unit is more likely to work.

 

In 'stating the bleeding obvious' I'm countering your argument that couples should stay together for the sake of the children even if, to quote you: In fact a good friend of mine only keeps their marriage together because when they split up for a while the little boy was very unhappy, despite how they feel about each other the happiness of their child is the priority.

 

Unlike you, I wouldn't dream of telling people how to live their lives (evidenced by my statement that I would have supported my daughter if she had wanted a full-blown traditional wedding). But I have a very good friend whose parents stayed together 'for the sake of the children' and who then divorced once she'd gone to university. The thought that her parents had been so unhappy in their efforts to provide a 'happy' household when she was growing up absolutely destroyed her and she was wracked with guilt for years.

[pap]

How is the courtesy of asking a father for his approval to marry his daughter hype? For many fathers their daughters wedding is one of the most important and proud days In their lives. It certainly was for my FIL.

 

Never pegged you as a married man.

[Hatch]

I bought a fake severed arm from a joke shop, it was quite a realistic one.

 

I put the engagement ring on one of the fingers and wrapped it up as a christmas present.

 

When she opened it she initially didnt see the ring and just looked at me in disgust thinking that i was some sort of mentalist. I didnt say anything and she finally noticed the ring on the finger about 5 minutes later..

 

It was very funny and very unromantic.

 

That was 7 years ago, we are getting divorced now.

[pap]

I bought a fake severed arm from a joke shop, it was quite a realistic one.

 

I put the engagement ring on one of the fingers and wrapped it up as a christmas present.

 

When she opened it she initially didnt see the ring and just looked at me in disgust thinking that i was some sort of mentalist. I didnt say anything and she finally noticed the ring on the finger about 5 minutes later..

 

It was very funny and very unromantic.

 

That was 7 years ago, we are getting divorced now.

 

You should have known it was a no-go when she failed to respond correctly to your hilarious jape.

[Thedelldays]

Cards on the table, I am not married.

 

That is a genuine surprise

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

where did you do it...

did you do it in public...did you do it in private...or did you just check a box at her with a ring in it...?

 

 

did she say no..? anyone got any stories where they no of someone getting humiliated ?

 

In private - call me old fashioned but all this 'massive gesture in full view of the public' ******** is quite simply that: ********.

[Thedelldays]

Thanks for the PM. :/

[Essruu]

We were on holiday in the USA, taking in San Francisco, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon and Scottsdale. Four nights were in Vegas. We got married on the second last night after I declared "I suppose we'd better do it then, or else you're going to be ****ing miserable for the rest of the holiday." $121 later after a drive-thru ceremony at The Little White Wedding Chapel, the deed was done and we were able to have our food reception for two in a Subway, get píssed and enjoy the rest of the impromptu honeymoon.

[ericofarabia]

We were on holiday in the USA, taking in San Francisco, Las Vegas, Grand Canyon and Scottsdale. Four nights were in Vegas. We got married on the second last night after I declared "I suppose we'd better do it then, or else you're going to be ****ing miserable for the rest of the holiday." $121 later after a drive-thru ceremony at The Little White Wedding Chapel, the deed was done and we were able to have our food reception for two in a Subway, get píssed and enjoy the rest of the impromptu honeymoon.

 

LOL .... did you get the Pack The Pews Special with a few Elvis's ?

[Essruu]

LOL .... did you get the Pack The Pews Special with a few Elvis's ?

 

No, I gave her a foot-long instead.

[buctootim]

No, I gave her a foot-long instead.

 

Very filling.

[Special K]

I was very romantic, which is ****ing unusual for me. Proposed under Juliets balcony in Verona, quite discrete it was too, didn't make a song and dance about it. Seem to remember i got ridden within an inch of my life later that night, so it had some benefit.

[tpbury]

If a bloke (in the future) were to ask permission from me to marry his daughter, I'd think he'd be a nice, if slightly weird, guy and I would duly give my 'permission'. If my daughter told me she was getting married I would be very happy for her, hoping to have had met the bloke a few times and checked him out, knowing full well that if I tried to prevent any marriage, I would push her away from me.

 

In any case, did all you noble traditionalist ask FiL's permission to bang her brains out the first time, or has pre-marital virginity suddenly taken over?

[Marsdinho]

The future Mrs Mars probably envisaged me popping the question in some candle lit glade, after a romantic meal. etc etc....

 

I went for Monkey World.

 

It was perfect.