The Southampton Way

[Turkish]

I'm not saying they will, just that the more attractive a club we are, the better our chances of retaining more quality players. Plus, it wouldn't be 'all of a sudden'... there have been and will be players who recognise they earn very good wages and aren't in it just for the money. Chances are we wouldn't want players who are only after a bigger pay cheque anyway.

This is all hypothetical until we do it and get promoted, but chances are Cortese and co wouldn't be doing all of this if they didn't believe in it and it'll just be interesting to see what happens.

 

So do you think Barcelona are playing their players in club shop vouchers and panini stickers?

[Frank's cousin]

It's a strategy based on self sustaining financials - if the Fair Play rules are challenged or circumvented, nothing with change and depending on how the others in prem manage their finances, will mean our plan will either work as a mid table sustainable club in the PL, Championship or yoyo. Thing is I believe its the RIGHT way to do things. Key to success is how long any good players will stay. Leave at 16-18 and we get no benefit, just the cash to fund a few quality players that may keep us mid table. If we can find a way of making it attractive enough for them to stay until 21-22, we have a chance in the future of having cyclic success (a top 6 finish is not unrealistic under those circumstances). We can argue all we like about how (un)realistic any success might be, but that does not detract from the fact that its still the RIGHT way to go about things.

 

Fottball supporting IS and always has been about dreams that one day.... lose that or be too cynical then you might as well give up being a fan.

[Minty]

So do you think Barcelona are playing their players in club shop vouchers and panini stickers?

You know what I meant. I thought this was one of those few threads where you might actually have been making a serious contribution but we're getting nowhere now so... I'm out.

[up and away]

But Adam Lallana still has to be paid top dollar, right? He is probably the club's top earner -in this respect, it makes no difference that he was produced by our academy.

The counterfactual might be that we would have had to pay Adam Lallana significantly more than we do right now if he hadn't come through the ranks/we had bought him from another club. But how much more? I cant imagine that much more....

 

If the player has not come through the ranks, clubs like Saints do not manage to sign players of such potential. Our only chance in the early years for these types of players is to develop them ourselves or take punts on possibles.

 

Take the case of Oxo for example. Without his father there could be chances to keep him for another couple of years if we were in the Premier. And if we managed any success that may have been possible to extend a little further. So maybe we only manage to keep the first Oxo for an extra 18 months, it's possible we can extend that further with the next hot prospect coming through as we develop as a team. As poor as the return looks, it's the only viable alternative to the ManC approach? Even in the dark times of losing these young starts, you can always console yourself that it's kept the Academy running for a further X years.

[Turkish]

You know what I meant. I thought this was one of those few threads where you might actually have been making a serious contribution but we're getting nowhere now so... I'm out.

 

I am making a serious point. I dont think a club like Saints will ever build a team from their academy good enough to compete in the top half of the table. All the top young players will be picked off and whilst we might be able to keep hold of the matthew Oakleys of this world i think it's going to be very difficult to build a successful team compromising of academy players. The fact that no one else has managed to do it suggests the probability of it is highly unlikely

[Give it to Ron]

I am making a serious point. I dont think a club like Saints will ever build a team from their academy good enough to compete in the top half of the table. All the top young players will be picked off and whilst we might be able to keep hold of the matthew Oakleys of this world i think it's going to be very difficult to build a successful team compromising of academy players. The fact that no one else has managed to do it suggests the probability of it is highly unlikely

 

So....we use that money wisely to invest in the cream thats left like the Lamberts, Fonte, Sharps to supplement the youngsters we can keep......have you learnt nothing from the debacle down the road?

No academy etc and no assets.

Lowe tried this but wasted the money on 10 managers and coaches and pay offs in those 10 years.

[Minty]

I am making a serious point. I dont think a club like Saints will ever build a team from their academy good enough to compete in the top half of the table. All the top young players will be picked off and whilst we might be able to keep hold of the matthew Oakleys of this world i think it's going to be very difficult to build a successful team compromising of academy players. The fact that no one else has managed to do it suggests the probability of it is highly unlikely

OK, apologies, but you're not stupid, you must've realised the simple point I was making: Money is not the be-all and end-all for all players.

 

Nowhere have I said I definitely think we will field a complete academy side to compete in the top half of the table, just that by developing these facilities it is all part of a process to help retain as much talent as possible . You are absolutely right, it is highly unlikely, but the better equipped we are at developing and keeping talent, the better for the club.

[Whitey Grandad]

A nice read, something complimentary for a change. A London cab driver yesterday evening (Massed bands of the royal Matines - Mountbatten Festival of Music - absoultely brilliant!) didn't realise that Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Bale were all products of Southampton's academy. To be honest, I don't think he knew where Southampton was exactly.

[This Charming Man]

OK, apologies, but you're not stupid, you must've realised the simple point I was making: Money is not the be-all and end-all for all players.

 

Nowhere have I said I definitely think we will field a complete academy side to compete in the top half of the table, just that by developing these facilities it is all part of a process to help retain as much talent as possible . You are absolutely right, it is highly unlikely, but the better equipped we are at developing and keeping talent, the better for the club.

 

Though it is for the vast majority and when you're a young lad and a massive club comes knocking, it's going to be hard to turn down. As we found out with Bale, Walcott and AOC (though granted our situation at the time of losing them all wasn't the best). We've been lucky with Lallana wanting to stay but we've still had to offer him a big money contract to stop him from having his head turned.

 

It would be fantastic to produce even half a team of academy players but it's really not that straight forward. If it was, every club would be at it, but they're not. We'd need an immediate and fairly substantial investment into the first team if we do get promoted to try and ensure we stay in the Prem long enough for this plan to come to fruition. So it's all well and good building for the future but we mustn't get distracted from the here and now.

[Give it to Ron]

Though it is for the vast majority and when you're a young lad and a massive club comes knocking, it's going to be hard to turn down. As we found out with Bale, Walcott and AOC (though granted our situation at the time of losing them all wasn't the best). We've been lucky with Lallana wanting to stay but we've still had to offer him a big money contract to stop him from having his head turned.

 

It would be fantastic to produce even half a team of academy players but it's really not that straight forward. If it was, every club would be at it, but they're not. We'd need an immediate and fairly substantial investment into the first team if we do get promoted to try and ensure we stay in the Prem long enough for this plan to come to fruition. So it's all well and good building for the future but we mustn't get distracted from the here and now.

 

For every Walcott there is a Wayne Bridge...what a waste of a career - although am sure he loves spending the dosh on his fit girlfriend in 15 years time when he looks back am sure he will of loved his time at City.

[Minty]

Though it is for the vast majority and when you're a young lad and a massive club comes knocking, it's going to be hard to turn down. As we found out with Bale, Walcott and AOC (though granted our situation at the time of losing them all wasn't the best). We've been lucky with Lallana wanting to stay but we've still had to offer him a big money contract to stop him from having his head turned.

Well we just don't know, neither of us can speak for any future players, but given the Southampton Way is supposedly about developing good people as well as good players, I'm quietly confident that our academy lads will learn a lot off the pitch and that a greater percentage of them will not be so motivated purely by money. Lallana has done several interviews now and it comes across that he realises what he's a part of, and that counts for a lot.

 

It would be fantastic to produce even half a team of academy players but it's really not that straight forward. If it was, every club would be at it, but they're not. We'd need an immediate and fairly substantial investment into the first team if we do get promoted to try and ensure we stay in the Prem long enough for this plan to come to fruition. So it's all well and good building for the future but we mustn't get distracted from the here and now.

I completely agree with the last bit, obviously there will need to be investment in the first XI initially to introduce some more quality and make sure that we stay in the top flight. It goes without saying that to keep any home grown talent (and I'm talking 3/4/5+ years down the line here) we need to be competing in the Prem at a decent (comfortably mid-table/top half) level. Obviously it is not straightforward to produce lots of home grown talent, but that's exactly why we're doing what we're doing, to maximise our chances. And for them to want to stay, we need to be showing that we're progressing as a club on the pitch in the meantime.

[madruss]

So....we use that money wisely to invest in the cream thats left like the Lamberts, Fonte, Sharps to supplement the youngsters we can keep......have you learnt nothing from the debacle down the road?

No academy etc and no assets.

Lowe tried this but wasted the money on 10 managers and coaches and pay offs in those 10 years.

 

Plus Lowe didn't have nearly a fraction of the money to spend that Cortese has

[shurlock]

If the player has not come through the ranks, clubs like Saints do not manage to sign players of such potential. Our only chance in the early years for these types of players is to develop them ourselves or take punts on possibles.

 

Take the case of Oxo for example. Without his father there could be chances to keep him for another couple of years if we were in the Premier. And if we managed any success that may have been possible to extend a little further. So maybe we only manage to keep the first Oxo for an extra 18 months, it's possible we can extend that further with the next hot prospect coming through as we develop as a team. As poor as the return looks, it's the only viable alternative to the ManC approach? Even in the dark times of losing these young starts, you can always console yourself that it's kept the Academy running for a further X years.

 

Totally agree with that, though is the implication that the best we can do is enjoy a world class player's ability for the first few years of their career -and some other deeper-pocketed club enjoys their impact when they are in their prime and use the money to keep bankrolling this hamster wheel?

[Andy Durman]

Great read

[Turkish]

So....we use that money wisely to invest in the cream thats left like the Lamberts, Fonte, Sharps to supplement the youngsters we can keep......have you learnt nothing from the debacle down the road?

No academy etc and no assets.

Lowe tried this but wasted the money on 10 managers and coaches and pay offs in those 10 years.

 

Sorry, maybe I'm not getting it. I thought the reason everyone is wetting themselves at this article is that we are actually going to try and keep these players and fulfil the vision of a team full of graduates playing in the champions league.

 

I'm not saying its the wrong thing to do,it's very much the right thing to do. But if anyone thinks England's best young players are going to ignore more money, bigger clubs and champions league football because they alway dreamt of playing for Southampton, you're going to be in for a disappointment.

[Turkish]

For every Walcott there is a Wayne Bridge...what a waste of a career - although am sure he loves spending the dosh on his fit girlfriend in 15 years time when he looks back am sure he will of loved his time at City.

 

I love it when people use Wayne Bridge as an example of how it all goes wrong. Yes it's gone a bit sour for him now But let's not forget he played in a cup final for His team, us. He then went onto play in the champions league, Win FA cups, league titles and league cups with Chelsea and played 30 odd times for England and was paid a shed load more than Saints could offer for the privildge. I'm sure he wishes he never left Saints.

Edited 13 April, 2012 by Turkish

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Great article.

 

Worth noting that even the Barcelona players don't come through as one single crop, or even at Man Utd.

 

Players come through, make the first XI, supplemented by talent sourced from elsewhere, then a few years later maybe a few more players do the same. It's not about immediately producing one team containing 7/8 academy products.

 

Looking at Barcelona - Valdes is 30, Pique 25, Puyol 34, Fabregas 24, Xavi 32, Iniesta 27, Messi 24.

 

Obviously this is skewed a bit by Pique & Cesc leaving and coming back again, but it does show that their squad of 'academy graduates' doesn't come from one single crop. I think if you look at Utd it's probably pretty similar.

 

I'm not saying in 10 years Saints will be winning the Champions League twice in three years like Barca, but it has to be seen as a model worth following if relative (PL sustainability?) success can be attained through supplementing the first team with players of sufficient quality.

 

If we can keep a few good players that become core players of the a decent squad there's no reason once every few years we can have a successful season, which even if players are picked off will generate revenue - which can be reinvested into the squad.

[Give it to Ron]

I love it when people use Wayne Bridge as an example of how it all goes wrong. Yes it's gone a bit sour for him now But let's not forget he played in a cup final for His team, us. He then went onto play in the champions league, Win FA cups, league titles and league cups with Chelsea and played 30 odd times for England and was paid a shed load more than Saints could offer for the privildge. I'm sure he wishes he never left Saints.

 

I am sure he has loved playing understudy to Cole, spent nearly a year honing his golf handicap, did you miss the bit where I said am sure he has loved having the money to lavish on his bird?

I only played Hampshire league standard and miss playing every day now I am old git....are you saying he wont have any regrets about his career?

I am sure he never regrets leaving Saints the point was he went to a club for the money not to enhance his career being a bench man.

[Give it to Ron]

Sorry, maybe I'm not getting it. I thought the reason everyone is wetting themselves at this article is that we are actually going to try and keep these players and fulfil the vision of a team full of graduates playing in the champions league.

 

I'm not saying its the wrong thing to do,it's very much the right thing to do. But if anyone thinks England's best young players are going to ignore more money, bigger clubs and champions league football because they alway dreamt of playing for Southampton, you're going to be in for a disappointment.

 

Name me a club that hasnt lost a youth team player at some time or other to a bigger club?

The point is we are going to try that, this isn't new, it was Marcus's vision here I was told this a couple of years

ago by the dad of one of our academy lads who met him.

[up and away]

Totally agree with that, though is the implication that the best we can do is enjoy a world class player's ability for the first few years of their career -and some other deeper-pocketed club enjoys their impact when they are in their prime and use the money to keep bankrolling this hamster wheel?

 

That's a practical outlook that still works. I don't buy into the Barcelona model for the reasons you have made but the Ajax model would certainly be a lot closer. If you take that great Ajax side of 1995 and put that team into the Premier or la Liga there would have been no where near the same pressure to sell the players off or the players to go. More than likely being able to keep the majority of the talent. But it's pie in the sky just for Saints to get into that position, similar to our scenario for getting into the Premier:)

[Turkish]

Name me a club that hasnt lost a youth team player at some time or other to a bigger club?

The point is we are going to try that, this isn't new, it was Marcus's vision here I was told this a couple of years

ago by the dad of one of our academy lads who met him.

 

So actually the vision is nothing new. Sell the good ones like the Bridge, keep the okay one like Oakley, but this time don't spunk the money away on paying off managers and radio stations, but sign other players that don't come from the academy, that seems to be what our saying yes?

[Give it to Ron]

So actually the vision is nothing new. Sell the good ones like the Bridge, keep the okay one like Oakley, but this time don't spunk the money away on paying off managers and radio stations, but sign other players that don't come from the academy, that seems to be what our saying yes?

 

Not quite.....the first bit sounds like we should sell..I am saying as is the case if we have no option but to sell as you can't force them to stay.

The vision isn't new at all but the way hopefully it will be implemented here will be.

In the article it mentions 7 or 8 players from Barca academy...supplemented by others thats what I thnk our vision is as well.

That will take time and may be several years to get that number in but it can be done.

[dubai_phil]

Really? Would you desribe Jame Milner as world class? Yet he was offered £80k a week or whatever and a £20m transfer fee. What about Stuart Downing? What about Gareth Barry? Andy Carroll!!!! Hardly "world class" players but getting huge salaries at big clubs. Competent but not great English players snapped up by bigger clubs from clubs bigger than Saints. Why are Saints going to be able to keep them and why are the players going to want to stay when Man City, liverpool or Arsenal come calling?

 

http://www.englandfootballblog.com/2011/09/27/lack-of-english-players-in-the-premier-league-september-26/

 

English players account for around 30% of all those playing in the PL.

 

Remarkable though it may seem, not all of those play for the top 5.

 

Also, under FFP regulations the ability to sign a James Milner on 200k a week will reduce.

 

Norwich have 14 English players in their match squad - they haven't ALL left for bigger clubs.

 

An Academy will produce SOME that will go straight away and will produce some that will stay.

[Turkish]

http://www.englandfootballblog.com/2011/09/27/lack-of-english-players-in-the-premier-league-september-26/

 

English players account for around 30% of all those playing in the PL.

 

Remarkable though it may seem, not all of those play for the top 5.

 

Also, under FFP regulations the ability to sign a James Milner on 200k a week will reduce.

 

 

Norwich have 14 English players in their match squad - they haven't ALL left for bigger clubs.

 

An Academy will produce SOME that will go straight away and will produce some that will stay.

 

 

No but all of the best ones are. Look at the England squad for the Holland game Only 4 from clubs outside of United, Chelsea, city, arsenal, spurs & Liverpool. two of these were goal keepers due to Englands failure to consistently produce one that is any bloody good.

 

As for Norwich, great example, let's model ourselves on Norwich.

Edited 13 April, 2012 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Not quite.....the first bit sounds like we should sell..I am saying as is the case if we have no option but to sell as you can't force them to stay.

The vision isn't new at all but the way hopefully it will be implemented here will be.

In the article it mentions 7 or 8 players from Barca academy...supplemented by others thats what I thnk our vision is as well.

That will take time and may be several years to get that number in but it can be done.

 

Yes of course it can be done. But only Man U and Barcelona have done it. I'm sure someone will tell me soon They said man will never climb Everest.

[Crazy Diamond]

I had a job interview with the Premier League this week. Whilst I was there I was talking to several people about the EPPP, and they explained to me with a great deal of sense how all we see and hear is the negative side of the idea. There are a lot of positives and the new ideas being implemented will go a long way to help the game in this country.

 

They also told me that they're deciding who to send to represent the FA for the plan down in Southampton.

 

Just thought I'd throw that in there...

[Turkish]

I am sure he has loved playing understudy to Cole, spent nearly a year honing his golf handicap, did you miss the bit where I said am sure he has loved having the money to lavish on his bird?

I only played Hampshire league standard and miss playing every day now I am old git....are you saying he wont have any regrets about his career?

I am sure he never regrets leaving Saints the point was he went to a club for the money not to enhance his career being a bench man.

 

So is winning league titles, FA cups and playing the champions league over playing for a club with no money and ambitions of mid table finishes not enhancing your career then?