alpine_saint Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Well, I think Alan is right. Its about time Liverpool stopped the wallowing self-pity b*ll*cks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Is he right to say that Liverpool should play on the 15th? Yes. Did he choose an appropriate format and/or tone to discuss it? Most definitely not, which he himself has acknowledged. Would we be as touchy if 96 of our fans were killed in a stadium disaster relatively recently? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 He is absolutely right. What possible relevance does a random date have to the disaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100150255/alan-davies-has-committed-a-thought-crime-against-the-post-hillsborough-cult-of-emotional-correctness/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9197576/Alan-Davies-has-1000-donation-rejected-by-Hillsborough-Justice-Campaign-after-claiming-Liverpool-should-play-on-anniversary-of-disaster.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Is he right to say that Liverpool should play on the 15th? Yes. Did he choose an appropriate format and/or tone to discuss it? Most definitely not, which he himself has acknowledged. Would we be as touchy if 96 of our fans were killed in a stadium disaster relatively recently? Probably. Exactly this. Although the more extreme reactions/death threats make you wonder if this is less about compassion than partisanship for some LFC fans. It's easy to see how fans who stand behind an abuser rather than the man he racially abused, and who offer to kill someone who (is perceived to have) disrespected their grief, could be viewed as being slightly tunnel-visioned in their support of the team. Mustn't tar them all with that brush though. Of course they will want to commemorate the tragedy. Possibly a more fitting commemoration would be at a football match though..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Even that bunch of self-important self-aggrandising tw*ts on the other side Lancashire play on the anniversary of the biggest disaster that befell their club. I'd like to know why the FA tolerates it. If a match falls on the 15th, they can always default it if it means so much to them not to play. Why must Chelsea tolerate less-than-optimal preparation for their Champions League semi-final ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Even that bunch of self-important self-aggrandising tw*ts on the other side Lancashire play on the anniversary of the biggest disaster that befell their club. I'd like to know why the FA tolerates it. If a match falls on the 15th, they can always default it if it means so much to them not to play. Why must Chelsea tolerate less-than-optimal preparation for their Champions League semi-final ? Why don't you ask them? http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/WhoWeAre/ContactUs I'm sure you're more likely to get an answer from them than on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Exactly this. Although the more extreme reactions/death threats make you wonder if this is less about compassion than partisanship for some LFC fans. It's easy to see how fans who stand behind an abuser rather than the man he racially abused, and who offer to kill someone who (is perceived to have) disrespected their grief, could be viewed as being slightly tunnel-visioned in their support of the team. Mustn't tar them all with that brush though. Of course they will want to commemorate the tragedy. Possibly a more fitting commemoration would be at a football match though..? My understanding is that Liverpool make a request to the FA when the date happens to coincide with a football match, and that the FA has approved each request. I don't think it's a case of Liverpool refusing to play. Now, as an issue that has got him so animated, I'm sure that Alps has already petitioned the FA to find out exactly why these requests are approved each time. We may yet hear the true story from the horse's mouth. In lieu of that, it's not exactly hard to work out. There's usually no good reason not to grant the request. We move games all the time to suit TV interests, so clearly, the organisational capability is there to be able to re-arrange a fixture. The competition concerned, the FA Cup, doesn't even have an easily quantifiable number of fixtures. Replays have to be sorted at relatively short notice. So, if Liverpool made a request to move the fixture out of respect for the dead, and the FA refused, how would that make the FA look exactly? After all, they've moved games for TV, created games because of draws but won't do it when it involves Britain's deadliest football tragedy. Wouldn't this be something the papers seized on? Wouldn't this be held up as an example of the callousness of commercialism in football? In short, it's a hell of a lot easier to move the fixture than it is not to move it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 My understanding is that Liverpool make a request to the FA when the date happens to coincide with a football match, and that the FA has approved each request. I don't think it's a case of Liverpool refusing to play. Yeah, that's my understanding of it too. I'm of the opinion that it would be more fitting to play a game of football (particularly against Everton) on that day. But it's not me who's been bereaved. The article RonManager posted above is interesting, regarding mass displays of grief and emotion. It's a poorly written article and much of it is wrong but the point is worth discussing. How long do we continue to publically grieve after a tragedy and at what point does that start to be more a show for someone else than a genuine emotional response? I think in this case there is a show being put on, but given the circumstances and the ongoing campaign for justice, perhaps a show is required? Complex issue, f'sure, and best not to broach it by shouting the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 What if the Champions League semi final was on the 15th and Liverpool were in it, (unlikely , i admit) , Would they play then? I bet UEFA will tell them to do one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Such nonsense. It was a tragedy, but it wasn't the only tragedy in the history of this nation. I really don't like alan davies at all, (see http://www.c*ntscorner.com/c*nt_view.php?c*nt_id=8718), if you can be arsed to look replace the * with u, but in this instance I have to agree with him. Possibly not as diplomatic as he could have been though, I'll grant you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 He's perfectly entitled to his opinion, and he gave it. Liverpool fans need to wake up and realise that not everyone will have the same opinion as them so they need to get on with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 What if the Champions League semi final was on the 15th and Liverpool were in it, (unlikely , i admit) , Would they play then? I bet UEFA will tell them to do one. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/19/liverpool-uefa-champions-league-hillsborough?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 it is all tragic...but life goes on and if anyone can throw up a bit of self pity, scousers sure can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 None of the current squad were directly involved in Hillsborough, so they shouldn't be too upset to play. If the fans wish to stay at home in quiet reminiscence, theres nothing stopping them. As alpine correctly points out, man u dont think twice about playing on the anniversary of munich, why do the scousers make such a big deal about it? ......oh. Might have to edit this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 I actually don't think they have. As has been stated before, Liverpool make a request which so far, has been granted. The club holds a memorial service each time the anniversary comes around, usually attended by some of the playing staff. Remember that Liverpool has a relatively small population ( around 400,000 at the time of Hillsborough ) and that most people knew someone affected by the tragedy. Have some of their fans over-reacted on Twitter? I'd say so, yes. Think Alan Davies was a bit of a nob for retweeting all the death threats. It's the classic "I'm right because I'm being attacked by nutters" defence. This wouldn't even be an issue if Davies had not raised the subject on the podcast. I've listened to it myself, and although he states that Hillsborough was the biggest footballing tragedy in his life, this statement is drowned out in his overall flippancy. If I was related to a victim of Hillsborough, I don't think I'd have been happy at the way he handled the situation. Same old scouse-bashing on here though. S'pose Rickie is a victim wallowing in his own self-pity as well, eh lads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 S'pose Rickie is a victim wallowing in his own self-pity as well, eh lads? would you accept it if rickie publicly asked not to play if we had a game on the 15th..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 would you accept it if rickie publicly asked not to play if we had a game on the 15th..? How is that question even relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 12 April, 2012 As has been stated before, Liverpool make a request which so far, has been granted. Standby for the whining-cum-death threats the first time it is declined. S'pose Rickie is a victim wallowing in his own self-pity as well, eh lads? From Wikipedia : The disease Scousus Selfpiteus Wallowus is a disease affecting the residents of Liverpool. Subsequently people hailing from Liverpool that manage to escape its confines recover from the disease with good prognosis as long as they avoid re-entering the infected area, and people born from outside the infected area have a 100% chance of infection should they be exposed for extended periods to the disease by living within the infected area. Pap, if you dont believe in the mawkish superiority of Scousers, go and pick up a DVD of anything by Carla Lane, for example Bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 Standby for the whining-cum-death threats the first time it is declined. From Wikipedia : The disease Scousus Selfpiteus Wallowus is a disease affecting the residents of Liverpool. Subsequently people hailing from Liverpool that manage to escape its confines recover from the disease with good prognosis as long as they avoid re-entering the infected area, and people born from outside the infected area have a 100% chance of infection should they be exposed for extended periods to the disease by living within the infected area. Pap, if you dont believe in the mawkish superiority of Scousers, go and pick up a DVD of anything by Carla Lane, for example Bread. Ah, brilliant. So if I go and watch The Sound of Music, I'm immediately able to talk about Austrians with more authority than you, who actually lives there and presumably deals with real Austrians on a day-to-day basis? Thanks mate - I've had a laugh. I now know that your Bible to understanding scousers is in fact a 1980s TV programme. Great effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 12 April, 2012 Ah, brilliant. So if I go and watch The Sound of Music, I'm immediately able to talk about Austrians with more authority than you, who actually lives there and presumably deals with real Austrians on a day-to-day basis? Thanks mate - I've had a laugh. I now know that your Bible to understanding scousers is in fact a 1980s TV programme. Great effort! You silly sod. I lived in Manchester for 5 years and spent a lot of time in Liverpool with Scousers. And are we forgetting what has triggered this thread ? You contact with Austrians is what - exactly ? Oh, and I am fully capable of giving a dissertation on the personality flaws of Austrians, thankyou. At least I can be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 You silly sod. I lived in Manchester for 5 years and spent a lot of time in Liverpool with Scousers. Yes, I am sure that you got a balanced opinion from Mancunians on scousers That'd be like someone living in Portsmouth and relying on them for an impartial opinion on Sotonians. Whatever, I'll raise your five years of your Manc-tinted encounters with scousers with my sixteen years of living here, working here and having family here. I think I come up trumps on the "who knows more about scousers" question. You contact with Austrians is what - exactly ? None, I was simply pointing out the folly of using fictional stories as a substitute for actual real life experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 12 April, 2012 (edited) Yes, I am sure that you got a balanced opinion from Mancunians on scousers That'd be like someone living in Portsmouth and relying on them for an impartial opinion on Sotonians. Whatever, I'll raise your five years of your Manc-tinted encounters with scousers with my sixteen years of living here, working here and having family here. I think I come up trumps on the "who knows more about scousers" question. None, I was simply pointing out the folly of using fictional stories as a substitute for actual real life experience. Then your analogy was complete b*ll*cks because you said I judged Scousers on Bread and accused me of having no first hand experience, then started going on about that god-awful film which for me romanticised the period of the Volksbefragung and Anschluss as a basis for judging Austrians. I lived with two Scousers for a year. In fact, I was sat watching Hillsborough unfold on TV with them in the front room of our shared house. Who has more first-hand knowledge of Scousers never came into it; you said I had none. Edited 12 April, 2012 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 12 April, 2012 Share Posted 12 April, 2012 Pap, if you dont believe in the mawkish superiority of Scousers, go and pick up a DVD of anything by Carla Lane, for example Bread. Alright mate, alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 A point mate by a housemate of mine. "Funny how they make us remember Hillsborough yet nothing is done in this country to commemorate Hysel, I wonder why that is?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 A point mate by a housemate of mine. "Funny how they make us remember Hillsborough yet nothing is done in this country to commemorate Hysel, I wonder why that is?" I think this is a very valid point. Hillsborough was, undoubtedly, an horrific event, but Heysel was only 4 years earlier. I wasn't affected by Hillsborough on a personal level, so if I had my views may well be different, but I'd have thought that a Wembley semi against Everton could well be a good way to commemorate the day. In all other years the 15th hasn't caused any issues for anyone. However, this year it means that Chelsea have to play 24 hours later, and closer to a massive game for them against Barcelona. A possible 120 mins at Wembley on a Sunday evening isn't ideal preparation for chasing Barcelona around a few days later. There seems to be a total disregard for Chelsea here - hardly appropriate in the wider context of 'the football family' that we've heard so much about recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 A point mate by a housemate of mine. "Funny how they make us remember Hillsborough yet nothing is done in this country to commemorate Hysel, I wonder why that is?" Apart from the plaque at Anfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 Apart from the plaque (next to the Hillsborough one) at Anfield? Hardly considered in the same breath in general conversation though is it. No insistence that they don't play on the 29th of May or mark the day a certain way to remember the lives of the 39 dead Juventus fans. From the outside looking in there does appear to be a certain degree of double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 crazy that in a space of a couple of years...fans from the same club are involved in tragic terrace deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 April, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 April, 2012 I think this is a very valid point. Hillsborough was, undoubtedly, an horrific event, but Heysel was only 4 years earlier. I wasn't affected by Hillsborough on a personal level, so if I had my views may well be different, but I'd have thought that a Wembley semi against Everton could well be a good way to commemorate the day. In all other years the 15th hasn't caused any issues for anyone. However, this year it means that Chelsea have to play 24 hours later, and closer to a massive game for them against Barcelona. A possible 120 mins at Wembley on a Sunday evening isn't ideal preparation for chasing Barcelona around a few days later. There seems to be a total disregard for Chelsea here - hardly appropriate in the wider context of 'the football family' that we've heard so much about recently. Indeed, and full marks to Chelsea for acting in a more dignified manner about this than the Scousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 The funniest thing about Alps anti-scouse stance is that he does exactly the same things as he accuses them of doing. "Wah. It's not fair! Why are Liverpool getting special treatment?" Now let's take your "main board form" into account, in which you wail like a banshee whenever we hit the tiniest bump in the road, bemoaning our chances and acting like each little mis-step is Southampton FC plunging a rusty black knife into your heart. That all looks like 'victim' behaviour to me. And wallowing? F*ck me mate, nobody does it better than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 Chelsea have to play on Sunday because of the idiot FA. If they didn't spunk a frankly ridiculous amount of money on the new Wembley, they wouldn't have to prostitute the ground for semi-finals. It cost more than double what it should have done, and I bet there we're brown envelopes going left,right and centre. The semi's shouldn't be at Wembley. They should be both played on Saturday, one after the other, at Old Trafford and The Emirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 April, 2012 Share Posted 13 April, 2012 (edited) It's really touching that Liverpool would want to show such respect on the 23rd anniversary of my appendix being removed, but I think I'm over it by now. Edited 14 April, 2012 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 15 April, 2012 Share Posted 15 April, 2012 Criticised at the memorial service today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 15 April, 2012 Share Posted 15 April, 2012 Criticised at the memorial service today. He should ask for a refund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 15 April, 2012 Share Posted 15 April, 2012 Criticised at the memorial service today. Not an all night candle lit vigil then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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