Thedelldays Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 But is it a "derby" and what constitutes a "derby". The games you've listed there all have a history of hatred and regional rivalry. Can't think of anyone from Southampton that has a dislike of Reading particularly. Guess there is a fair bit of cross-over in places like Basingstoke and Newbury. a derby deeps not have to be full of hatred plymouth torquay is a local derby but not a great deal of hatred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 a derby deeps not have to be full of hatred plymouth torquay is a local derby but not a great deal of hatred Saints/Pompey wasn't full of hatred in my old mans day - the 1950's. It's only since national service was abolished that all the stupidness started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 a derby deeps not have to be full of hatred plymouth torquay is a local derby but not a great deal of hatred So why is the phrase "derby" used? Where does that come from? Who decides what is a "local derby" is and on what terms the phrase should be used? Is Reading v Fulham a local derby? Think they're a fair bit closer to Reading than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So why is the phrase "derby" used? Where does that come from? Who decides what is a "local derby" is and on what terms the phrase should be used? Is Reading v Fulham a local derby? Think they're a fair bit closer to Reading than we are. you..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Any tickets left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 you..? Fair enough. I say Saints v Reading isn't a local derby. Decision made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Fair enough. I say Saints v Reading isn't a local derby. Decision made. I think it is. Our fan bases overlap in Basingstoke and Newbury areas. This makes it a local derby. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I think it is. Our fan bases overlap in Basingstoke and Newbury areas. This makes it a local derby. IMO of course. Our fan base overlaps with Chelsea. They're not that much further than Reading. If we were to play them, would that be a local derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I think it is. Our fan bases overlap in Basingstoke and Newbury areas. This makes it a local derby. IMO of course. Plus, DellDays says above that I decide what a local derby is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 It's a rivalry game, NOT a derby. There is a MASSIVE difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Our fan base overlaps with Chelsea. They're not that much further than Reading. If we were to play them, would that be a local derby? They have London derbies and are 70 odd miles away so no. Reading are a localish team less than an hours drive away. Anything within an hours drive is local IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 They have London derbies and are 70 odd miles away so no. Reading are a localish team less than an hours drive away. Anything within an hours drive is local IMO. So Yeovil is a local derby? And if we were to play Farnborough in an FA Cup tie, that would also be classed as a local derby? Yes Chelsea have their London derbies, Reading have theirs with Swindon and Oxford and we ahve ours with the Skates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So Yeovil is a local derby? And if we were to play Farnborough in an FA Cup tie, that would also be classed as a local derby? Yes Chelsea have their London derbies, Reading have theirs with Swindon and Oxford and we ahve ours with the Skates. Yeovil isnt under an hour away!!! Its obviously nothing like our games with the skates with the history and hatred but in terms of geography and locations of fan base it is a local derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So Yeovil is a local derby? And if we were to play Farnborough in an FA Cup tie, that would also be classed as a local derby? Yes Chelsea have their London derbies, Reading have theirs with Swindon and Oxford and we ahve ours with the Skates. Club size comes into play here. Reading (although not as big as us) are not a noddy club and as such deserve respect as a local rival. Bournemouth is a perfect example of a club that would love to be a rival, but they are off our radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 on another note. may not get our wish and get Victor Moses. Wigan are continuing their usual end of season run and have almost beaten Man Utd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Club size comes into play here. Reading (although not as big as us) are not a noddy club and as such deserve respect as a local rival. Bournemouth is a perfect example of a club that would love to be a rival, but they are off our radar.I'd suggest that Reading are very much a "noddy" club and the only reason they are on our radar currently is the challange for top spot in this league, similar to Brighton and Bournemouth last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I'd suggest that Reading are very much a "noddy" club and the only reason they are on our radar currently is the challange for top spot in this league, similar to Brighton and Bournemouth last season.playoff final last year..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Yeovil isnt under an hour away!!! Its obviously nothing like our games with the skates with the history and hatred but in terms of geography and locations of fan base it is a local derby. So you're saying that any game that is under an hours drive away is a local derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I'd suggest that Reading are very much a "noddy" club and the only reason they are on our radar currently is the challange for top spot in this league, similar to Brighton and Bournemouth last season. Since moving from Elm Park and thanks to Madejski's prudence they've certainly grown as a club, but so have we since we moved from the Dell. Historically they have a similar record gate to us too. There isn't actually that much between us, but we are bigger no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 playoff final last year..? What about it? Wigan have been in the Premier League for a number of years now, plenty would still consider them a "noddy club". If we weren't challenging Reading at the top of the league we wouldn't consider them any different from a Swindon, Brentford, Fulham type club. Someone not a million miles away, easy day out, but not a local derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 (edited) So you're saying that any game that is under an hours drive away is a local derby? Any game against a reasonable sized club within an hour is a local derby. Yes. It might not be THE BIG local derby, like Saints v Pompey but it's a local game. Using Leeds as an example their BIG LOCAL derbies are against Man United. The one filled with hate and history. But also have or have had local derbies against both Sheffield Clubs, Huddersfield, Bradford even Middlesboro and Hull are considered local derbies by their fans. How close does a club have to be for you to consider it a local derby then? Edited 11 April, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Any game against a reasonable sized club within an hour is a local derby. Yes. It might not be THE BIG local derby, like Saints v Pompey but it's a local game. Using Leeds as an example their BIG LOCAL derbies are against Man United. The one filled with hate and history. But also have or have had local derbies against both Sheffield Clubs, Huddersfield, Bradford even Middlesboro and Hull are considered local derbies by their fans. How close does a club have to be for you to consider it a local derby then? On that basis Leeds playing Burnley or Oldham was a local derby? Never heard such games described as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 (edited) Derby etymology, as defined by rsssf.com and their anal stat fiends : http://www.rsssf.com/rssbest/whysoccer.html The term "derby" is derived from the annual match played in Derby (pronounced "Darby") between the parishes of St. Peter's and All Saints on Shrove Tuesday. Unfortunately, however, it was last contested on Shrove Tuesday in 1846. True derbies are indeed played intra city, town or village (hamlet, etc) and _not_ inter city, town, etc. Basically, matches like Everton v Liverpool, Sheff U v Sheff Weds, Port Vale v Stoke and Man U v Man C are derbies, Saints v Reading (or Skate Cheats for that matter) are not. But that's by the narrowest definition of the term - current usage means any two teams near each other can contest a derby, provided there's some common ground (South Coast, South Wales, East Anglia, etc.). Proximity to other nearby clubs is a major factor in legitimacy, Cardiff and Swansea are 40 miles apart, could you imagine Wigan trying to claim a "derby" rivalry with Leeds ? Edited 11 April, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 On that basis Leeds playing Burnley or Oldham was a local derby? Never heard such games described as that. So what defines a local derby then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I would say there are always people trying to stretch the boundaries... some bimmer on Sky Sports News stupidly called Fleetwood (north of Blackpool) v Wrexham (north Wales) "local rivals" last night. 92 miles apart - next to each other in the Conference table though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I remember some of the times we played Plymouth. And that was refers to as some sort of south cost derby. Hmmm 160-odd miles apart Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So what defines a local derby then? More to the point, what defines a donkey derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I remember some of the times we played Plymouth. And that was refers to as some sort of south cost derby. Hmmm 160-odd miles apart Yeah Yeah, Coventry is nearer to Southampton, and quicker to get to. I quite liked the "Hampton Derbies" when we played Northampton recently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu0x Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Any game against a reasonable sized club within an hour is a local derby. Yes. It might not be THE BIG local derby, like Saints v Pompey but it's a local game. Using Leeds as an example their BIG LOCAL derbies are against Man United. The one filled with hate and history. But also have or have had local derbies against both Sheffield Clubs, Huddersfield, Bradford even Middlesboro and Hull are considered local derbies by their fans. I'm from Leeds. I grew up there, surrounded by Leeds United fans. I have never heard anyone refer to matches against most of those clubs as a derby match. A United match isn't even considered a proper derby, although obviously they hate each other. Derbies are particularly local rivalries, not simply matches against teams you don't like. Liverpool loathe United, but their matches aren't derbies - they would be Everton and City, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 They have London derbies and are 70 odd miles away so no. Reading are a localish team less than an hours drive away. Anything within an hours drive is local IMO. According to Google maps, it takes 1 hour and 4 minutes to drive between the 2 stadiums. Case closed, not a local derby at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 According to Google maps, it takes 1 hour and 4 minutes to drive between the 2 stadiums. Case closed, not a local derby at all I work in Reading and drive there at least twice a week. It takes me 45 minutes. Case closed. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I work in Reading and drive there at least twice a week. It takes me 45 minutes. Case closed. It is. It really isn't a local derby. It's a rivalry game because we are both top of the league, it's not local at all. I live close by to Reading, and went to school there, I can assure you that it isn't a local derby at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 (edited) I'm from Leeds. I grew up there, surrounded by Leeds United fans. I have never heard anyone refer to matches against most of those clubs as a derby match. A United match isn't even considered a proper derby, although obviously they hate each other. Derbies are particularly local rivalries, not simply matches against teams you don't like. Liverpool loathe United, but their matches aren't derbies - they would be Everton and City, respectively. I've lived in Harrogate and Leeds, in a house full of Leeds fans. All my in laws are Leeds fans from Leeds. They all consider Middlesborough and Hull and Sheffield clubs as derbies. Other Leeds fans I know talk of Yorkshire Derbies against the others.The United match is calls the Roses Derby or something similar. And to prove what utter ****e youre talking Liverpool v Man United was considered the 3rd Most fierce derby in England, one ahead of Saints v Pompey, yet according to you this isn't a derby. LOL Edited 11 April, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 It really isn't a local derby. It's a rivalry game because we are both top of the league, it's not local at all. I live close by to Reading, and went to school there, I can assure you that it isn't a local derby at all So you live near Reading, went to school there, support Saints but it isn't a local game. Okay then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 I work in Reading and drive there at least twice a week. It takes me 45 minutes. Case closed. It is. At most times of the day it'd take over an hour to drive from Tottenham to Chelsea. Does that mean that one isn't a Derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So you live near Reading, went to school there, support Saints but it isn't a local game. Okay then. It's not a local derby for the two clubs, I can think of at least 5 clubs which are closer to Reading than we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 So you live near Reading, went to school there, support Saints but it isn't a local game. Okay then. Would you class Reading v AFC Wimbledon a local derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Would you class Reading v AFC Wimbledon a local derby? Or Reading v Fulham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 At most times of the day it'd take over an hour to drive from Tottenham to Chelsea. Does that mean that one isn't a Derby? Youre being silly now sour mush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Would you class Reading v AFC Wimbledon a local derby? See my comments above about size comparisons of clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Youre being silly now sour mush. You know I'm right lad. I'd say Reading v Fulham less than an hours drive, Tottenham v Chelsea more than an hour. Which one is the derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 See my comments above about size comparisons of clubs. you said local derby and within an hours drive. so you're now saying that even if you have another club on your doorstep that aren't as big as you, it's not a local derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 (edited) You know I'm right lad. I'd say Reading v Fulham less than an hours drive, Tottenham v Chelsea more than an hour. Which one is the derby? It's obviously different for a city like London with so many big clubs and traditional rivalries. I'm talking About clubs like Saints. Edited 11 April, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Just to confirm, is the Reading derby/non-derby/donkey-derby sold out? Would be embarrassing if it wasn't IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 you said local derby and within an hours drive. so you're now saying that even if you have another club on your doorstep that aren't as big as you, it's not a local derby? Which club would Nottingham Forest consider the bigger game? Notts county or Derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Which club would Nottingham Forest consider the bigger game? Notts county or Derby? Derby. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Which club would Nottingham Forest consider the bigger game? Notts county or Derby? This year, the came v Derby County, but using your logic, the game v Notts County wouldn't be classed as a Local Derby, but one against Leicetser/Coventry/Peterborough would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 This year, the came v Derby County, but using your logic, the game v Notts County wouldn't be classed as a Local Derby, but one against Leicetser/Coventry/Peterborough would be? No, a derby is a game against a reasonable sized club within a reasonable distance, an hours drive was the radius I suggested (with the caveat that big London derbies are different due to travelling difficulties) I'd imagine County fans were well up for a game against Forest, much like Boirnemouth were against us. For Forest, Derby is the bigger game because their clubs are similar size. All games within that radius are "local" IMO but due to history, size of clubs etc, some are bigger derbies than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 No, a derby is a game against a reasonable sized club within a reasonable distance, an hours drive was the radius I suggested (with the caveat that big London derbies are different due to travelling difficulties) I'd imagine County fans were well up for a game against Forest, much like Boirnemouth were against us. For Forest, Derby is the bigger game because their clubs are similar size. All games within that radius are "local" IMO but due to history, size of clubs etc, some are bigger derbies than others. Peterborough/Leicester/Coventry are similar sized clubs to Forest and are all within a short travelling distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 11 April, 2012 Share Posted 11 April, 2012 Its not a derby. We have no common ground. Non of the press will call it a derby. They are just another southern club not a million miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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