trousers Posted 20 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 June, 2012 (edited) But claims for unemployment benefit claims rise. How many times must I slap you down on this green shoots piffle? I'm quite enjoying the slaps to be honest Edited 20 June, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 June, 2012 Share Posted 20 June, 2012 But claims for unemployment benefit claims rise. How many times must I slap you down on this green shoots piffle? Precisely. Most of the cuts haven't even started yet, many Public Sector Workers have spent the last year in a kind of limbo while reviews were carried out, whole management structures cuts are still due to be announced in next couple of weeks (mate in Salisbury has this situation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2012 @Peston: Am hearing the Moody's downgrades of UK banks likely to be at 6.30 our time, with US banks downgraded later tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2012 @Peston: Most interesting downgrade may be RBS: short-term rating expected to be cut from P-1 to P-2. Embarrassing for RBS, no funding problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 @Peston: Most interesting downgrade may be RBS: short-term rating expected to be cut from P-1 to P-2. Embarrassing for RBS, no funding problems Still think there are green shoots, as Europe teeters on the edge, between recession and depression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Napoleon spoke the wisest words in all this (as did David Niven in 55 days at Peking - ones favourite film..): "Let China sleep for when she awakes the world will tremble" We allowed China to awaken and the only way the west will once again rise is to put China back into its slumber. In the future there will be war. Our very survival dictates it must be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Still think there are green shoots, as Europe teeters on the edge, between recession and depression? The clue is in the question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Still think there are green shoots, as Europe teeters on the edge, between recession and depression? More like weeds. Still bouncing on the bottom and will be for at least the next 12 months. In my humble opinion of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 This is a thought provoking read http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/steinberg/world_war_III_063005.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Napoleon spoke the wisest words in all this (as did David Niven in 55 days at Peking - ones favourite film..): "Let China sleep for when she awakes the world will tremble" We allowed China to awaken and the only way the west will once again rise is to put China back into its slumber. In the future there will be war. Our very survival dictates it must be so. You are a right oddball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2012 Share Posted 21 June, 2012 Napoleon spoke the wisest words in all this (as did David Niven in 55 days at Peking - ones favourite film..): "Let China sleep for when she awakes the world will tremble" We allowed China to awaken and the only way the west will once again rise is to put China back into its slumber. In the future there will be war. Our very survival dictates it must be so. Thats all very well but if we were going to do it we should have nuked them 30 years ago. Instead we decided to buy their £20 dvd players with money they lent us. Too late now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 June, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18545545 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 You are a right oddball. Or maybe i'm one of the few people on here that speaks sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 Or maybe i'm one of the few people on here that speaks sense. There is some logic in what you say. All empires grow and die.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 All empires grow and die.... But at least we've still got Gibraltar and the Falklands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 But at least we've still got Gibraltar and the Falklands. Indeed and we should defend them with everything we have got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 Indeed and we should defend them with everything we have got. The problem is that doesn't amount to very much. Still I like the quote about the beefing up of the UK forces in the South Atlantic "Only one side in this argument has nukes". Whether that referred to the method of propulsion of the RN subs, or the warheads on the missiles, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 June, 2012 Share Posted 22 June, 2012 The problem is that doesn't amount to very much. Still I like the quote about the beefing up of the UK forces in the South Atlantic "Only one side in this argument has nukes". Whether that referred to the method of propulsion of the RN subs, or the warheads on the missiles, I'm not sure. Our armed forces despite cuts are still far superior to Spain and Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 16 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18852708 The UK economy should enjoy an "Indian summer" after a poor first half of the year, says a leading forecaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 16 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18851907 A £9.4bn package of investment in the railways in England and Wales, including £4.2bn of new schemes, has been unveiled by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18851907 A £9.4bn package of investment in the railways in England and Wales, including £4.2bn of new schemes, has been unveiled by the government. Shadow transport secretary Maria Eagle said: "We welcome this investment, it was actually first announced under the last Labour government... but this won't help jobs and growth now, as there's not going to be a penny spent until after 2014." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18854396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18854396 Exactly. Thank you for slapping down trousers before I had to face that regular chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 Chap on 5 live just saying we'd be lucky to get 0% growth for 2012. Also talking about how France is now seen as so safe that they can borrow money at negative interest rates ie they get paid to borrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 Chap on 5 live just saying we'd be lucky to get 0% growth for 2012. Also talking about how France is now seen as so safe that they can borrow money at negative interest rates ie they get paid to borrow. What? Surely not! Not Socialist France FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 Growth forecast for 2013 slashed. UK being outperformed by all other major economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 Growth forecast for 2013 slashed. UK being outperformed by all other major economies. That's why the govt has announced big rail infrastructure schemes today - to try and pump prime the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 16 July, 2012 Share Posted 16 July, 2012 That's why the govt has announced big rail infrastructure schemes today - to try and pump prime the economy. AKA Plan B - but never will those words issue forth from Gideon's gob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Just to kick you when you're down, trousers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jul/25/shock-gdp-fall-deepens-double-dip-recession It could hardly get much worse than a 50-year low, but no doubt will, given Osborne's rank incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9425617/UK-economy-shrinks-0.7pc-economist-reaction.html They haven't seen anything yet. I never cease to be amazed by just how stupid the vast majority (99.7 %) of "economists" and "economic" pundits are and how little grasp they have of what is going on. They didn't see 2008 coming, although in this country it was obvious from 1997 and an absolute certainty from 2002. The Eurozone was doomed from the start and the agonizing decline just goes on and on. There was an ignoramus, sorry "economist" on the Today programme this morning, who said the government cuts were wrong and the way to to solve the debt problem was to increase government borrowing. No, he hadn't just escaped from Broadmoor, he was a member of a government advisory body ! Many of those quoted above are equally stupid. I just can't think of a better term, stark raving mad might be more appropriate. Tom Dolphin, IPPR Chief Economist seems to be the most deluded,(although they are all in the same cloud cuckoo land). Keynesian economics, he has obviously either never read Keynes or didn't understand what he was reading. I did the little economics where I was formally taught in 1959 and we were taught exactly what Keynes taught and what his justifications for government deficit borrowing were. None of his criteria apply to the current situation. They are all the same, Q3, the Jubilee celebrations, the wet weather, the Olympics, none of these factors matter a toss. GDP, a useless, misleading indicator, no mention of the trade balance, no mention of manufacturing output. A wasted article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 If we manufacture more stuff who shall we sell it to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 (edited) http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/press-office/press-releases/bcc-government-must-show-bold-leadership-as-gdp-falls-further-in-q2.html David Kern, Chief Economist at the British Chambers of Commerce "We believe that the disappointing figure paints an unduly pessimistic picture of the state of the economy. Business surveys including the BCC’s Quarterly Economic Survey show a more positive picture and we still believe these surveys give a more accurate indication of the underlying trends in the economy. “It is difficult to reconcile the very positive recent labour market figures published by the ONS, with the continued declines reported in GDP. Increases in employment, and in the average numbers of hours worked, at a time when output is falling, suggest implausible falls in productivity. We believe the employment figures are more accurate than the output figures, and the GDP figures are likely eventually to be revised up. Regardless of the uncertainty surrounding the ONS estimate, it is clear that economic growth remains much too low and the economy is stagnating. The main aim must now to focus on measures that will help businesses grow, invest, and create jobs.” Edited 25 July, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Are you enjoying your conversation with yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Are you enjoying your conversation with yourself? I'm actually starting to disagree with myself. Which is slightly disturbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Most of these articles and quotes (on both sides) don't actually change or prove anything, they're just opinions on where we are and where we're going posted by someone who shares the same opinion and posts it to try and give their position more gravitas. And, shock horror, the articles and quotes posted are influenced by the positions and political values held by the author. What I would like to see more of is some objective analysis of what has happened, and options for the future, that are independent of political leaning, and aren't an attempt to big up or discredit any specific political policy, past or present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 "Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists." John Kenneth Galbraith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 What I would like to see more of is some objective analysis of what has happened, and options for the future, that are independent of political leaning, and aren't an attempt to big up or discredit any specific political policy, past or present. Totally agree but, humans being human, doesn't every 'commentator' on a given topic have a vested interest in some shape or form? As much as I'm prone to play the Devil's Advocate card it would be good to see a completely independent view on the economy. Any volunteers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Most of these articles and quotes (on both sides) don't actually change or prove anything, they're just opinions on where we are and where we're going posted by someone who shares the same opinion and posts it to try and give their position more gravitas. And, shock horror, the articles and quotes posted are influenced by the positions and political values held by the author. What I would like to see more of is some objective analysis of what has happened, and options for the future, that are independent of political leaning, and aren't an attempt to big up or discredit any specific political policy, past or present. I do believe my quoted piece was about government statistics showing that we remain in recession for a third quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9425617/UK-economy-shrinks-0.7pc-economist-reaction.html You're now quoting the loonies at the bottom of newspaper articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 You're now quoting the loonies at the bottom of newspaper articles? "If you can't beat them...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 Totally agree but, humans being human, doesn't every 'commentator' on a given topic have a vested interest in some shape or form? Yes, quite possibly. We all have an opinion after all and even the most basic of stats can be spun in many ways. I guess the key to it is for people to have the ability to remain open-minded, rather than blindly repeat their position parrot-fashion. It would also help though (and your Telegraph piece above highlights this nicely) if people could justify their opinions and give clear reasoning. Not doing so just turns a potentially valid opinion into a one-sided rant that either serves only to switch people off, respond in kind, or join in with the tub-thumping... none of which help further the discussion. For a minute there I could've been talking about the main board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 I do believe my quoted piece was about government statistics showing that we remain in recession for a third quarter. I said 'Most of'. Can't argue with government stats. Well, actually I am sure many people would gladly argue with them but anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18987491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 George Osbourne when grilled about the disappointing numbers and whether he was up to the job "I am 110% focussed on the economy". Aah, I think I can see where the problem might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 25 July, 2012 Author Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18986639 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18986639 Are you doing this to confuse Minty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 lol - I think trousers is actually just Newsnow in human form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 lol - I think trousers is actually just Newsnow in human form. trousers is a waste of space as a right-winger. Can't insult people when they have a better point than him, crap at straw man arguments and is all too willing to accept a situation is ridiculous when it is actually ridiculous. I'm not necessarily saying trousers is going to be storming up the Thames in a contemporary Potemkin anytime soon, but it's surely just a matter of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 George Osbourne when grilled about the disappointing numbers and whether he was up to the job "I am 110% focussed on the economy". Aah, I think I can see where the problem might be. Yes, 110% is so last decade. We deal in multiples these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 25 July, 2012 Share Posted 25 July, 2012 George Osborne "under pressure" (Boom-boom-boom boom-de-boom-boom) http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/25/george-osborne-under-pressure-economy The Liberal Democrat peer Lord Oakeshott called Osborne a "work experience" chancellor, and urged that he be replaced at the Treasury by the business secretary, Vince Cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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