Green shoots?

[PhilippineSaint]

Nah, let's deal with the broad for now.

 

Irrespective of whether there is any design to do so or not, seems like the weakest in society are having a very tough time of it. A lot of people have taken their own lives, others have had to rely on loan sharks, etc.

 

From the right-wing perspective, isn't this just survival of the fittest? Is there a small part of you which says "f**k them"?

 

Serious question.

 

There a large part of me says "F*ck Um" and the Government.

 

I have paid all the required Taxes that I have had to pay in all the countries that I have lived and on time.

 

At no stage have I been able to claim benifits in any of those countries including the UK. My medical insurance is all paid for I have no ability to get NHS coverage for myself or dependents.

 

People do not look hard enough for work IMO.

 

They all want it handed to them on a plate and its just not on

 

This from a previously fully paid up member of the Labour Party

[trousers]

I'm not saying it's right wing only.

 

I'm asking for the opinion of a right winger.

 

Seems to be against the rules to answer a simple question.

 

Fairy nuff... I'll answer the question now....

 

I vote Tory because, rightly or wrongly, my natural instinct is "small government = good; large government = bad"

 

So, against that philosophical backdrop to the way my brain is wired, my belief is that those who need state help should receive help and those that don't don't.

 

If a policy of encouraging people that can work back into to work is resulting in an increase in suicide rates (I don't have the overall stats to hand, so not sure if this is a case of 'same camel, different straw'?) then there is clearly something wrong with the implementation of the policy.

 

If people are physically or mentally unable to work then the state should support them and support them well.

 

Not sure where that places me on the "f*** 'em" scale...?

Edited 25 March, 2014 by trousers

[buctootim]

The real problem is that people with skills and or qualifications trade down during times of high unemployment. During the boom times Aldi would likely be lucky to attract 50 applicants who could read and write well. Now almost certainly more than 50 of those 1,500 applicants had previous retail experience and a stack of qualifications. Against that background people with mental difficulties and all that goes with it (usually disrupted education, poor work history) wont get employed.

[Wade Garrett]

Fairy nuff... I'll answer the question now....

 

I vote Tory because, rightly or wrongly, my natural instinct is "small government = good; large government = bad"

 

So, against that philosophical backdrop to the way my brain is wired, my belief is that those who need state help should receive help and those that don't don't.

 

If a policy of encouraging people that can work back into to work is resulting in an increase in suicide rates (I don't have the overall stats to hand, so not sure if this is a case of 'same camel, different straw?) then there is clearly something wrong with the implementation of the policy.

 

If people are physically or mentally unable to work then the state should support them and support them well.

 

Not sure where that places me on the "f*** 'em" scale...?

 

I'm pretty middle of the road, but agree with most of what you say. Large government can be bad, but a fair few privatisations in this country have led to shoddy over-priced services, with little of the competition that is supposed to benefit the consumer, and large profits being taken out of the country.

 

The Polish and other economic migrants have proved that hard workers can find work. I'm not too sure how many of the unemployed come into the 'hard worker' category. I do have huge sympathy with those who are out of work through no fault of their own and are unable to secure employment. It is these people, as well as the mentally and physically disabled who should be well looked after. Not the feckless workshy.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26730533

 

UK inflation rate falls to fresh four-year low of 1.7%

[bridge too far]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26730533

 

Mostly because of the drop in fuel prices, over which this government has no say or input

 

Still, it'll be comforting news for the 1300 Royal Mail employees losing their jobs along side the 300 at Honda as well as nurses getting only a 1% increase this year.

[trousers]

Mostly because of the drop in fuel prices, over which this government has no say or input

 

Still, it'll be comforting news for the 1300 Royal Mail employees losing their jobs along side the 300 at Honda as well as nurses getting only a 1% increase this year.

 

Hey! I'm the "whataboutery" expert on here....get off my patch!

[trousers]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/25/siemens-wind-turbine-production

 

Manufacturing company Siemens is to invest £160m in wind turbine production and installation facilities in the UK, creating 1,000 new jobs.

The German company had been working on plans to invest £80m, which would have led to 700 jobs, but it has decided to revise its plans, giving a boost to the offshore wind industry.

The work will be spread across two sites: the previously announced Green Port Hull construction, assembly and service facility and a new rotor blade manufacturing plant in nearby Paull, East Riding.

Siemens will invest £160m across the two locations and its port partner, Associated British Ports (ABP), is spending a further £150m in the Green Port Hull development.

The combined investments of £310m will create up to 1,000 jobs directly, with additional jobs during construction and indirectly in the supply chain.

Edited 25 March, 2014 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

Mostly because of the drop in fuel prices, over which this government has no say or input

 

Still, it'll be comforting news for the 1300 Royal Mail employees losing their jobs along side the 300 at Honda as well as nurses getting only a 1% increase this year.

 

They're lucky to get 1%. They have a secure job and many in the private sector are still getting nothing.

[trousers]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2585771/Bullet-train-firms-UK-create-1-600-jobs-three-years-Japanese-rail-giant-investing-hundreds-millions-Britain-European-rivals.html

 

The firm behind Japan’s famous bullet train is set to move to Britain in a major boost for the economy.

Industrial giant Hitachi is planning to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in the country and increase the number of its UK staff from 200 to 1,800 within three years.

[bridge too far]

They're lucky to get 1%. They have a secure job and many in the private sector are still getting nothing.

 

!!!!!!

 

"Public sector workers saw a rise of just 0.9% in the same period, but private sector pay growth was 1.7%, meaning it has already caught up with the increase in prices."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26730533

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/14/public-sector-jobs-cuts-britain

 

Public sector workers most definitely don't have secure jobs

[trousers]

!!!!!!

 

"Public sector workers saw a rise of just 0.9% in the same period, but private sector pay growth was 1.7%, meaning it has already caught up with the increase in prices."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26730533

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/14/public-sector-jobs-cuts-britain

 

Public sector workers most definitely don't have secure jobs

 

http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/the-link-between-security-and-complacency/

[pap]

http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/the-link-between-security-and-complacency/

 

Probably explains why your Eton educated well-to-do's are so sh!t.

[trousers]

Touché!

[Whitey Grandad]

!!!!!!

 

"Public sector workers saw a rise of just 0.9% in the same period, but private sector pay growth was 1.7%, meaning it has already caught up with the increase in prices."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26730533

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/14/public-sector-jobs-cuts-britain

 

Public sector workers most definitely don't have secure jobs

 

That just covers the one year. What about the previous periods?

[Whitey Grandad]

Probably explains why your Eton educated well-to-do's are so sh!t.

 

They're all sh!t so I don't get your point Actually, some are slightly less sh!t than others.

[bridge too far]

That just covers the one year. What about the previous periods?

 

The inflation figures have also been referred to in annual terms so it's only right to talk about wage rises for the same period.

 

How far back do you want to go? 1850 or something?

[trousers]

"If you pay nurses too much you'll attract bad nurses" - Bobby Davro, 1984

[bridge too far]

"If you pay nurses too much you'll attract bad nurses" - Bobby Davro, 1984

 

Change the word 'nurses' to 'bankers' and that would certainly ring true

[pap]

"If you pay nurses too much you'll attract bad nurses" - Bobby Davro, 1984

 

I very much enjoyed your entry for the "Most tenuous justification of Tory policy" ever award.

 

That's what you were going for, right?

[Whitey Grandad]

The inflation figures have also been referred to in annual terms so it's only right to talk about wage rises for the same period.

 

How far back do you want to go? 1850 or something?

 

More than one year but less than a decade. We wouldn't want to be selective, would we?

[JackFrost]

I'm a Tory at heart but I'll willingly criticise or praise any idea that any party comes up with regardless of whether it's a good or bad idea, but what's been coming from the Commons recently has made me more anti-Labour than pro-Conservative.

 

The other day Peter Hain actually had the temerity to claim that the deficit was purely down to the banking crisis and had nothing to do with Labour's spending or borrowing, even though Labour spent years raising public expenditure way beyond the country's overall economic growth and they were being warned by the OECD about the deficit long before the banking crisis kicked in (with Gordon Brown being among the biggest advocates of deregulating the banks, along with numerous Tories). The funniest bit was when Hain said "I know they can't handle the truth" just as politicians from all around the house were laughing at him.

 

The Tories are far from perfect and I've been critical of some of their more stupid policies and ideas, but at least the coalition seem to have some sort of direction (agree with it or not). From what I've seen from Milliband, Balls and just now Rachel Reeves, it's been a long time since I've seen opposition (of any party) so completely unelectable. I'd rather have the Greens in power than Labour.

[JackFrost]

I'm a Tory at heart but I'll willingly criticise or praise any idea that any party comes up with if I think it's a good or bad idea, but what's been coming from the Commons recently has made me more anti-Labour than pro-Conservative.

 

The other day Peter Hain actually had the temerity to claim that the deficit was purely down to the banking crisis and had nothing to do with Labour's spending or borrowing, even though Labour spent years raising public expenditure way beyond the country's overall economic growth and they were being warned by the OECD about the deficit long before the banking crisis kicked in (with Gordon Brown being among the biggest advocates of deregulating the banks, along with numerous Tories). The funniest bit was when Hain said "I know they can't handle the truth" just as politicians from all around the house were laughing at him.

 

The Tories are far from perfect and I've been critical of some of their more stupid policies and ideas, but at least the coalition seem to have some sort of direction (agree with it or not). From what I've seen from Milliband, Balls and just now Rachel Reeves, it's been a long time since I've seen opposition (of any party) so completely unelectable. I'd rather have the Greens in power than Labour.

 

Fixed

 

(I do miss the edit function)

[buctootim]

I'm a Tory at heart but I'll willingly criticise or praise any idea that any party comes up with regardless of whether it's a good or bad idea, but what's been coming from the Commons recently has made me more anti-Labour than pro-Conservative.

 

The other day Peter Hain actually had the temerity to claim that the deficit was purely down to the banking crisis and had nothing to do with Labour's spending or borrowing, even though Labour spent years raising public expenditure way beyond the country's overall economic growth and they were being warned by the OECD about the deficit long before the banking crisis kicked in (with Gordon Brown being among the biggest advocates of deregulating the banks, along with numerous Tories). The funniest bit was when Hain said "I know they can't handle the truth" just as politicians from all around the house were laughing at him.

 

The Tories are far from perfect and I've been critical of some of their more stupid policies and ideas, but at least the coalition seem to have some sort of direction (agree with it or not). From what I've seen from Milliband, Balls and just now Rachel Reeves, it's been a long time since I've seen opposition (of any party) so completely unelectable. I'd rather have the Greens in power than Labour.

 

Its a weak cohort of politicians from all parties. You'd have difficultly filling a whole government with competent people even by cherry picking from the Tories, Labour, Liberals, UKIP and Greens.

[hutch]

Its a weak cohort of politicians from all parties. You'd have difficultly filling a whole government with competent people even by cherry picking from the Tories, Labour, Liberals, UKIP and Greens.

Rubbish. Today's Labour Party is crammed full of competent people, with proper degrees in Political Science an'all.

[hypochondriac]

I still don't understand a system whereby the head of the armed forces or education has never had any experience in those sectors. That doesn't happen in other European nations.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26765711

 

Retail sales rose by more than expected in February.

Sales volumes rose 1.7% last month. Sales in February were 3.7% higher than a year earlier, the Office for National Statistics said.

Economists had expected retail sales to improve, but only by 0.5% in February and 2.5% on the year.

[buctootim]

I still don't understand a system whereby the head of the armed forces or education has never had any experience in those sectors. That doesn't happen in other European nations.

 

Its worse than just the ministers - it even extends to the civil servants who draw up policies and draft legislation. A few years ago I was talking to my boss about a previous job I'd had in in the NHS and was saying how crazy the system of bidding for funds for capital improvements was (not necessarily the idea but the system and execution). She piped up with "oh I designed that when I was the Department of Health" for 18 months. It transpired she had only ever worked for the Civil Service, previously in the Foreign Office and then Transport. No experince of the NHS at all.

[pap]

Its worse than just the ministers - it even extends to the civil servants who draw up policies and draft legislation. A few years ago I was talking to my boss about a previous job I'd had in in the NHS and was saying how crazy the system of bidding for funds for capital improvements was (not necessarily the idea but the system and execution). She piped up with "oh I designed that when I was the Department of Health" for 18 months. It transpired she had only ever worked for the Civil Service, previously in the Foreign Office and then Transport. No experince of the NHS at all.

 

Civil service doesn't pay enough for technicians.

 

I worked for Ordnance Survey for two years, first as a sandwich student and then as a contractor.

 

During the sandwich student stint, I saw some very talented programmers leave the org. One had solved a particularly thorny issue. His closing comment was that he couldn't believe that he did it for the money.

 

When I came back as a contractor, the place was awash with them, because guess what? Technical organisations still need to pay technical people, even if they pretend they can get away with paying £14K a year in 1997. Would have been much cheaper in the long term to pay decent money to retain their brains.

[trousers]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935155

 

UK manufacturing sees strong growth.

 

"Manufacturing output headed higher, buoyed by a strong pick up in the pharmaceuticals, transport and food sectors," said Lee Hopley, chief economist at the EEF, the manufacturers' organisation.

 

"Output now stands at its highest level in more than two and a half years with companies reporting good trading conditions both at home and in overseas markets.

 

"All manufacturing indicators are lining up for a strong first quarter growth rate, highlighting that industry remains a vital cog in the UK's continuing recovery."

[sfc1976]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935148

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wonder what the lefties make of the revenue figures that the top rate of tax has bought in an extra £9 billion since it was cut. As Nigel Lawson proved 30 years ago ,higher tax rates does not mean more money. Setting tax rates to "punish" the rich is counter productive , it should be set at a rate that produces most revenue.

[buctootim]

I wonder what the lefties make of the revenue figures that the top rate of tax has bought in an extra £9 billion since it was cut. As Nigel Lawson proved 30 years ago ,higher tax rates does not mean more money. Setting tax rates to "punish" the rich is counter productive , it should be set at a rate that produces most revenue.

 

Actually its just another tax dodge.

 

"The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) have attributed the rise in revenue to people intentionally taking longer to declare their income, and thus the value on the receipts have been higher this year. This they argue, is because a number of the country’s top earners intentionally held back their bonuses and salaries for a year after hearing Chancellor George Osborne’s budget in 2012, so that they could benefit from lower tax payments incurred from the implementation of the 45% tax in 2013. - See more at: http://www.moneyexpert.com/news/hmrc-statistics-indicate-that-top-tax-rate-cut-has-sent-income-revenue-soaring/800582761#sthash.CTi7eJUN.dpuf

[Jonnyboy]

Actually its just another tax dodge.

 

"The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) have attributed the rise in revenue to people intentionally taking longer to declare their income, and thus the value on the receipts have been higher this year. This they argue, is because a number of the country’s top earners intentionally held back their bonuses and salaries for a year after hearing Chancellor George Osborne’s budget in 2012, so that they could benefit from lower tax payments incurred from the implementation of the 45% tax in 2013. - See more at: http://www.moneyexpert.com/news/hmrc-statistics-indicate-that-top-tax-rate-cut-has-sent-income-revenue-soaring/800582761#sthash.CTi7eJUN.dpuf

 

Quelle surprise.

[Whitey Grandad]

Actually its just another tax dodge.

 

"The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) have attributed the rise in revenue to people intentionally taking longer to declare their income, and thus the value on the receipts have been higher this year. This they argue, is because a number of the country’s top earners intentionally held back their bonuses and salaries for a year after hearing Chancellor George Osborne’s budget in 2012, so that they could benefit from lower tax payments incurred from the implementation of the 45% tax in 2013. - See more at: http://www.moneyexpert.com/news/hmrc-statistics-indicate-that-top-tax-rate-cut-has-sent-income-revenue-soaring/800582761#sthash.CTi7eJUN.dpuf

 

Er... They haven't dodged tax, they're still paying it.

[bridge too far]

Er... They haven't dodged tax, they're still paying it.

 

But not so much of it because they waited until the rate dropped

[CB Saint]

Lots of people take advantage of deferring payment to avoid higher tax rates or to utilise allowances. "Bed and breakfasting" of shares by middle income people was common to take advantage of cgt allowances. I have no issue with this.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27047966

 

After nearly six years of falling real wages, weekly earnings have finally edged above inflation.

Weekly wages, including bonuses, rose by 1.7% in the year to February, up from 1.4% in January, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

Earlier this week, inflation, as measured by the Consumer Prices Index (CPI), fell to 1.6%.

It is the first time that earnings have been higher than inflation for six years, apart from two months in 2010.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27046681

 

The number of people out of work in the UK has fallen by 77,000 to a five-year low of 2.24m in the three months to February, official figures indicate.

The unemployment rate now stands at 6.9% of the adult working population, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

Average earnings in the three months to February grew 1.7% compared with a year earlier.

[Jonnyboy]

They've been saying this all day but I imagine the the wage growth is skewed by London financial types getting back on the gravy train.

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27779000

 

UK industrial output grew at its fastest annual pace for three years in April, official figures have shown.

Output rose by 3% in April from a year earlier, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said, the fastest annual rate since January 2011.

The narrower measure of manufacturing output rose 4.4% year-on-year, the fastest pace since February 2011.

[trousers]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10884632/Do-I-have-to-go-on-my-knees-grovelling-apology-from-IMF-head-for-incorrect-warnings-on-UK-economy.html

 

A year ago Oliver Blanchard, the IMF’s chief economist, warned Mr Osborne was “playing with fire” with austerity and downgraded Britain’s growth forecast to just 0.7 per cent for 2013. Instead, it grew by 1.7 per cent, and is expected to hit 2.7 per cent this year.

 

“We got it wrong,” Ms Lagarde told the Andrew Marr Show. “We acknowledged it. Clearly the confidence building that has resulted from the economic policies adopted by the government has surprised many of us.”

“We said very clearly that we had underestimated growth for the U.K. and that our forecasts had been proven wrong by the reality of economic developments,” she said.

[trousers]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f5ba3ca-132e-11e4-8244-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38OtBjeuU

 

IMF forecasts UK to be fastest-growing advanced economy in 2014

 

Britain’s economic revival continues to surprise the rest of the world, with the International Monetary Fund on Thursday upgrading its UK growth forecast more than for any other leading economy....

Mods - grateful if you could change the thread title to "Green leaves on strong branches" when you get a spare moment please

[Smirking_Saint]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f5ba3ca-132e-11e4-8244-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38OtBjeuU

 

Mods - grateful if you could change the thread title to "Green leaves on strong branches" when you get a spare moment please

 

Gotta love those big blue trees

[hutch]

Need to make sure you give them a good pesticide spray with cropdusters as well. Apparently there's a small possibility of an outbreak of Spendiflorus Millibandia next year.

[Batman]

Labour told us in 2010 that the country would be ruined and in bit last economically by this time.

[bridge too far]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/25/george-osborne-uk-economy-gdp-recession_n_5617204.html?clearcache=1

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Labour told us in 2010 that the country would be ruined and in bit last economically by this time.

No they didn't, they said that austerity would choke off the recovery (the economy was growing when Labour left office), and lo and behold we had three years of stagnation.

 

Also bear in mind that Osborne has slyly changed policy since then, delaying his targets for deficit reduction and investing more in infrastructure

[CB Saint]

Speaking of Labour - I notice Balls has been very quiet of late - has labour realized his lack of credibility and is hiding him in the shadows until after the elections

[bridge too far]

Speaking of Labour - I notice Balls has been very quiet of late - has labour realized his lack of credibility and is hiding him in the shadows until after the elections

 

He's been on BBC News all morning. Sorry to burst your bubble.