George Galloway wins Bradford West byelection - fluke or...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Have you looked at the percentage swings?

 

Tories lost a greater percentage of their (admittedly pathetic) vote than Labour.

 

The Lib Dems didn't even get their deposit back.

 

Completely agree that this is a disaster for the Labour Party.

 

But it's been a Labour stronghold since 1974 (apart from a brief spell when the sitting Labour MP joined the SDP).

 

The Tories were never going to win this seat.

 

Bad news for the voters of Bradford though, Millibandwagon has just announced he is going to visit them next week to find out why they voted the way they did.......

[pap]

But it's been a Labour stronghold since 1974 (apart from a brief spell when the sitting Labour MP joined the SDP).

 

The Tories were never going to win this seat.

 

Bad news for the voters of Bradford though, Millibandwagon has just announced he is going to visit them next week to find out why they voted the way they did.......

 

Granted the Tories were never going to win the seat, but almost a quarter of people who voted Tory last time didn't do so this time. You're once again bashing the Labour Party and handily ignoring the fact that in percentage terms, the Tories actually did worse.

 

This is not a typical by-election. Not every constituency will have a former Celebrity Big Brother housemate in the running, nor will they have the demographic characteristics that Bradford has. Not only did Galloway have name recognition, but his uncompromising views will resonate with constituents who support his anti-war stance.

 

If you are suggesting that this sort of result is some reflection on the national popularity of the Labour Party, I'm not really sure you've considered the factors at play in the specific constituency.

[badgerx16]

Labour will win it back at the next General Election.

[pap]

This Guardian piece enumerates the reasons they think Galloway won.

 

It amounts to slightly more than "The Labour Party - they iz sh/t, innit".

[pap]

The Tory percentage swing was actually down to first-time voters, so hands-up - I was talking crap in that first paragraph to Lord D.

 

EDIT:

 

Or maybe the article I'm reading from is talking crap. They claim this, yet also state the Tory MP lost 10,000 votes.

 

SECOND EDIT:

 

2010 Tory Votes: 12,638

2012 Tory Votes: 2,746

 

Ouch!

Edited 30 March, 2012 by pap

[dune]

Labour will win it back at the next General Election.

 

Oh no they won't.

[pap]

Oh no they won't.

 

For all these claims of it being a Labour stronghold, it hasn't been a particularly 'safe' seat. The difference between the Conservative and Labour vote varies from 10K to 2K. It's hardly as if the Conservatives have no representation here.

 

However, I think you're right dune. Galloway will go out and be Galloway, and his constituents will love him for it. Unless he makes a colossal gaffe, I think Labour will have a hard time getting him out.

[Lord Duckhunter]

As I said earlier, due to work I was watching this as result started to come in. The faces of the Labour people told the story, the Sky guy also said that the Tory and Lib/Dem people were throughly enjoying it. They would hardly be enjoying it, if it was such a bad night for them. It was a perfect end to a bad week for the Tory's.

[dune]

For all these claims of it being a Labour stronghold, it hasn't been a particularly 'safe' seat. The difference between the Conservative and Labour vote varies from 10K to 2K. It's hardly as if the Conservatives have no representation here.

 

However, I think you're right dune. Galloway will go out and be Galloway, and his constituents will love him for it. Unless he makes a colossal gaffe, I think Labour will have a hard time getting him out.

 

Thanks bro.

[pap]

As I said earlier, due to work I was watching this as result started to come in. The faces of the Labour people told the story, the Sky guy also said that the Tory and Lib/Dem people were throughly enjoying it. They would hardly be enjoying it, if it was such a bad night for them. It was a perfect end to a bad week for the Tory's.

 

Shipping 10K votes in two years?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Shipping 10K votes in two years?

 

10k,20k or 1 vote. Under FPTP it doesn't really matter. They were never going to win this seat and doubt if they ever will again.

 

The political capital that can be made over Labour losing this seat is a lot greater than worrying about shipping votes where they were never going to win.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

 

That is all.

[trousers]

Galloway has some contrary views and I disagree with nearly all of them. However he is very smart, an independent thinker and isnt cowed into betraying his principles for a party promotion by the whips. We could do with 650 of his calibre in parliament

 

^ This

[trousers]

Granted the Tories were never going to win the seat, but almost a quarter of people who voted Tory last time didn't do so this time. You're once again bashing the Labour Party and handily ignoring the fact that in percentage terms, the Tories actually did worse.

 

This is not a typical by-election. Not every constituency will have a former Celebrity Big Brother housemate in the running, nor will they have the demographic characteristics that Bradford has. Not only did Galloway have name recognition, but his uncompromising views will resonate with constituents who support his anti-war stance.

 

If you are suggesting that this sort of result is some reflection on the national popularity of the Labour Party, I'm not really sure you've considered the factors at play in the specific constituency.

 

I tend to agree with you. Which makes it somewhat strange that Labour, right up to the end, thought they had the seat in the bag by some margin.

 

Either their electoral intelligence is very poor or they were woefully deluded and/or complacent.

[pap]

10k,20k or 1 vote. Under FPTP it doesn't really matter. They were never going to win this seat and doubt if they ever will again.

 

I agree. Check the results of elections since 1970. Definitely not a 'stronghold' and Labour will have a hard time shifting Galloway. Anyone else?

 

I mean, are you not prepared to concede that Galloway was an amazing fit for that constituency? That he's one of the most famous politicians in the country?

 

Do you think that this by-election is in any way representative of what would happen in a General Election?

 

It's cheap political point-scoring, and the fact that you have to employ a deeply-flawed electoral process to back up the argument speaks volumes as to the strength of your argument. What you're actually saying is that these votes don't matter. I'd agree that they don't count in our archaic electoral system, but irrespective of victor, they do give some indication to public satisfaction with the major parties. I'd say that matters considerably, and I expect the mandarins of mainstream parties will think so too. As you yourself point out, Miliband is going to Bradford to find out wtf went wrong.

 

You're presenting this as a massive victory for the Conservatives, constructing a picture of an indefatigible Labour citadel. It is the 182nd safest Labour seat in the country and was contested by someone uniquely qualified to win it.

 

The political capital that can be made over Labour losing this seat is a lot greater than worrying about shipping votes where they were never going to win.

 

Don't agree. When Labour lose Liverpool Walton, we'll talk. Plus your grand theory of political capital only really works if the Conservatives manage to sort out the country's problems. So far, they seem hellbent on achieving the complete opposite, and with very few exceptions - the ministers they've got now are the "A Team".

[solentstars]

For all these claims of it being a Labour stronghold, it hasn't been a particularly 'safe' seat. The difference between the Conservative and Labour vote varies from 10K to 2K. It's hardly as if the Conservatives have no representation here.

 

However, I think you're right dune. Galloway will go out and be Galloway, and his constituents will love him for it. Unless he makes a colossal gaffe, I think Labour will have a hard time getting him out.

 

Unfortunely the Tories who are die hard supporters like the labour supporters will try to justify that it was not a disaster for there partys.good day for independants .bad day for the 3 Tory partys today.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

 

 

 

Don't agree. When Labour lose Liverpool Walton, we'll talk. Plus your grand theory of political capital only really works if the Conservatives manage to sort out the country's problems. So far, they seem hellbent on achieving the complete opposite, and with very few exceptions - the ministers they've got now are the "A Team".

 

 

Andrew Neil said on This Week that he received a text from GG saying he had won. Him, Portillio and Alan Johnson were all of the opinion that it was bad for Millibandwagon. You can bet your last £ that the next PMQ's that Millibandwagon mentions "out of touch", this will be thrown back in his face. Our whole political system involves petty point scoring. Had Labour won this seat we would have had Millibandwagon, Balls and all banging on about the Budget, Fuel crisis and the 50% tax rate. I think it's funny that they are so out of touch they thought this was in the bag (although to be fair, so did the media)

[teamsaint]

if labour actually supported working people in their attempts to defend their pay and conditions,(and on other wider issues), they might do a bit better.

 

They are apologists for the banks and the city, and lots of us have had enough of it.

[doddisalegend]

Galloway has some contrary views and I disagree with nearly all of them. However he is very smart, an independent thinker and isnt cowed into betraying his principles for a party promotion by the whips. We could do with 650 of his calibre in parliament

 

^ This

 

Really? My take on Galloway is that he is an attention seeking media whore (as evidenced by his taking part in Big Brother) his independent thinking is no more than a way to get noticed. Towing the party line would just make him another faceless MP where as being a maverick and getting chucked out just gives him more attention as does this whole political party of one crap. He obvousily nows how to work voters but really 650 numpties like him in parilment really wouldn't do the country much good.

[pap]

Unfortunely the Tories who are die hard supporters like the labour supporters will try to justify that it was not a disaster for there partys.good day for independants .bad day for the 3 Tory partys today.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

 

Completely agree about all parties being variations on a theme.

 

Sorry to ardent supporters of mainstream political parties, but you're like bald men arguing over a comb.

 

The reality is that we've seen all three of them in action recently. None of them have been that impressive, and history will remember this current crop as opportunistic out-of-touch chancers. What it'll say about those unable to critically evaluate them, I don't know.

[doddisalegend]

if labour actually supported working people in their attempts to defend their pay and conditions,(and on other wider issues), they might do a bit better.

 

They are apologists for the banks and the city, and lots of us have had enough of it.

 

Yes it would be nice to have real choice between the parties rather than them all crowding the middle ground scrambling to be popular. New Labour made the labour party scared of it's own roots and beliefs just as Thatcherism made the conservitives scared off theirs.

[Verbal]

Really? My take on Galloway is that he is an attention seeking media whore (as evidenced by his taking part in Big Brother) his independent thinking is no more than a way to get noticed. Towing the party line would just make him another faceless MP where as being a maverick and getting chucked out just gives him more attention as does this whole political party of one crap. He obvousily nows how to work voters but really 650 numpties like him in parilment really wouldn't do the country much good.

 

I think that's right. Galloway strikes me as a dreadful narcissist. Politics-wise, I'm amazed that a party in as much evident disarray as Labour can still push the serially useless coalition in the polls. The last poll I saw (this week) had a hobbled, almost mute Labour Party eight points ahead. After yet another week of fiascos, incompetence and self-serving 'policy-making', I imagine Labour will be even further ahead. If Labour are the Marie Celeste (still afloat, not much else), the coalition are the Titanic.

[scotty]

For all these claims of it being a Labour stronghold, it hasn't been a particularly 'safe' seat. The difference between the Conservative and Labour vote varies from 10K to 2K. It's hardly as if the Conservatives have no representation here.

 

However, I think you're right dune. Galloway will go out and be Galloway, and his constituents will love him for it. Unless he makes a colossal gaffe, I think Labour will have a hard time getting him out.

 

 

George Galloway?? Colossal gaffe??? Impossible, surely.....

[Lord Duckhunter]

Before rushing to praise Galloway, people should remember he had some pretty shady dealings with Saddam.

[This Charming Man]

I take SuperMikey's posts more seriously than yours.

 

HTH.

 

I take that as a compliment.

 

HTH

 

*hugs and kisses*

[solentstars]

Before rushing to praise Galloway, people should remember he had some pretty shady dealings with Saddam.

 

I don't think anyone is praiseing him and anyway bush Blair and thatcher all were friends of saddam in the past.

 

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[dune]

I don't think anyone is praiseing him and anyway bush Blair and thatcher all were friends of saddam in the past.

 

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Out of interest are you a Muslim or a Sikh?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I don't think anyone is praiseing him and anyway bush Blair and thatcher all were friends of saddam in the past.

 

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Out of interest are you a Muslim or a Sikh?

 

 

This reminds of a few years ago when Stanley was asking me what colour I was, I still laugh when reminded of it now.

 

I know Solentstars but I'm not going to tell you.....us Catholics stick together!

[dune]

If he doesn't want to answer fair enough, but although i'm completely against the huge numbers we've let in, on a personal level I once worked with an Indian who was alright. I remember him introducing himself on his first day "hello my name is Godwin and I am a Christian" and he then did that head shake thing.

[pap]

I take that as a compliment.

 

HTH

 

*hugs and kisses*

 

See, that's what I'm talking about. Great for a quip! Serious? Nah.

 

[EastleighSoulBoy]

If he doesn't want to answer fair enough, but although i'm completely against the huge numbers we've let in, on a personal level I once worked with an Indian who was alright. I remember him introducing himself on his first day "hello my name is Godwin and I am a Christian" and he then did that head shake thing.

 

What 'head shake thing' ? Was he shaping up to head butt you?

[Viking Warrior]

George galliway what a knob . The only thing that will happen in parliament is his disruption . He adds nothing to the governing the country . He is only in it for his own ego and self importance .

.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If George Galloway and Beelzebub himself were the only two names left on the voting slip, then I'd vote for his Satanic Majesty the Rt Hon Member for Hades South before giving any support to that vile pox ridden excuse for a human being that is George Galloway.

 

That is all.

[Verbal]

If George Galloway and Beelzebub himself were the only two names left on the voting slip, then I'd vote for his Satanic Majesty the Rt Hon Member for Hades South before giving any support to that vile pox ridden excuse for a human being that is George Galloway.

 

That is all.

 

No you wouldn't. You'd vote for George. You're just trying to get his attention so that he can woo you.

[solentstars]

This reminds of a few years ago when Stanley was asking me what colour I was, I still laugh when reminded of it now.

 

I know Solentstars but I'm not going to tell you.....us Catholics stick together!

;

 

Yep that Stanley was a right racist **** with a screw loose.;)anyway I,m off to see father Murphy to confess my latest sins;)

 

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[solentstars]

George galliway what a knob . The only thing that will happen in parliament is his disruption . He adds nothing to the governing the country . He is only in it for his own ego and self importance .

.

 

Sounds like all the mps at parliament then.

 

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[SuperMikey]

Take the blinkers off kid. Everything I said is spot on.

 

Oh, the irony.

 

Which bit of his post is wrong?

 

I don't know, perhaps the bit where he stated that Galloway winning a by-election is conclusive proof that multiculturalism in this country has failed? In fact, all the other bits are wrong (imo) as well. To state that the Muslim community 'rocks the boat' is just absurd as well, based on this particular election.

 

Labour has lost a lot of voters because of the economic mess, the Conservatives haven't helped in the slightest because of their budgets and general f*ck ups since they came to power, and the Lib Dems have no clout or dignity after being made the Tory's whipping boys. As others have said, Galloway campaigned very effectively to gain the votes of the people in that region. Votes for parties other than the Big 3 are in no way to be taken as a statement that multiculturalism has failed...what a ridiculous idea.

 

I think it's evident from his posts on here that Dune is a particularly paranoid individual, given his constant attacks on the Muslim community and also the fact that he likes to try and pin anything on ethnic minorities. I don't think that Islam in the UK has a particularly good image, but that's mostly because of the way that it is represented in the mainstream media. The media plays on the paranoia of their audience by constantly illustrating the most extreme and radical elements in order to propagate and promote a bad representation of Islam as a whole. The worst thing is that people actually believe it. What exactly are the ways in which the Muslim community 'rock the boat'? By voting in elections? By 'coming over here, taking our jobs'? Good. Surely that means that multiculturalism hasn't failed? If Muslim people in this country are voting then I think that's a fantastic thing, because it suggests an amount of integration. Just because people can have a different cultural and ethnic identity to the majority of the population does not mean that they are not participating in our system.

 

I feel sorry for you. Constantly posting on threads like this, yet nobody can bring themselves to take you seriously.

 

Thanks Turkish.

[Jonnyboy]

Thanks Turkish.

 

Hey! I spotted that first.

[SuperMikey]

Hey! I spotted that first.

 

It was pretty evident after their exchanges on the thread about our Japanese supporters!

[aintforever]

Galloway is a bit of a ***t but I'm glad he's got elected because he is one of the few who were right about the Iraq War from the off.

[Sour Mash]

Oh, the irony.

 

 

 

I don't know, perhaps the bit where he stated that Galloway winning a by-election is conclusive proof that multiculturalism in this country has failed? In fact, all the other bits are wrong (imo) as well. To state that the Muslim community 'rocks the boat' is just absurd as well, based on this particular election.

 

Labour has lost a lot of voters because of the economic mess, the Conservatives haven't helped in the slightest because of their budgets and general f*ck ups since they came to power, and the Lib Dems have no clout or dignity after being made the Tory's whipping boys. As others have said, Galloway campaigned very effectively to gain the votes of the people in that region. Votes for parties other than the Big 3 are in no way to be taken as a statement that multiculturalism has failed...what a ridiculous idea.

 

I think it's evident from his posts on here that Dune is a particularly paranoid individual, given his constant attacks on the Muslim community and also the fact that he likes to try and pin anything on ethnic minorities. I don't think that Islam in the UK has a particularly good image, but that's mostly because of the way that it is represented in the mainstream media. The media plays on the paranoia of their audience by constantly illustrating the most extreme and radical elements in order to propagate and promote a bad representation of Islam as a whole. The worst thing is that people actually believe it. What exactly are the ways in which the Muslim community 'rock the boat'? By voting in elections? By 'coming over here, taking our jobs'? Good. Surely that means that multiculturalism hasn't failed? If Muslim people in this country are voting then I think that's a fantastic thing, because it suggests an amount of integration. Just because people can have a different cultural and ethnic identity to the majority of the population does not mean that they are not participating in our system.

 

 

 

Thanks Turkish.

You think just because people vote it means multiculturalism hasn't failed. One of the opening posts on here quoted the 'Muslim vote'. It's his main support, look where he's had success. The fact that it can be described as and targeted as 'a Muslim vote' says plenty about the lack of success of multiculturalism.

[SuperMikey]

You think just because people vote it means multiculturalism hasn't failed. One of the opening posts on here quoted the 'Muslim vote'. It's his main support, look where he's had success. The fact that it can be described as and targeted as 'a Muslim vote' says plenty about the lack of success of multiculturalism.

 

Or perhaps it suggests that most of our politicans just don't have a clue how to connect with regular people? Especially those of different ethnic backgrounds. Credit to Galloway for winning a difficult vote imo, and I would love to see more British politicans taking that extra step to connect with the people that they represent. I wonder how often MPs who represent constituencies with larger proportions of ethnic minorities actually spend talking to them and seeing what they want from a politician?

[cambsaint]

One of the problems Labour face is that they now have very few real working people as MPs any more. In my youth many trades unionists who had actually held proper jobs were actually selected instead of political activists and researchers.

I am now almost an OAP and the resentment that most of my friends and associates have towards the way the country is being run is amazing. I can quite see splinter parties such as UKIP taking a larger slice of the vote even though many of their candidates are pretty eccentric.

The Tories won't be forgiven for their theft of the age allowance, even if a stupid Union allowed the threat of a petrol strike to get it off the front pages.

[Tokyo-Saint]

If he doesn't want to answer fair enough, but although i'm completely against the huge numbers we've let in, on a personal level I once worked with an Indian who was alright. I remember him introducing himself on his first day "hello my name is Godwin and I am a Christian" and he then did that head shake thing.

 

Some of my best friends are Indian eh dune?

[saintbletch]

Really? My take on Galloway is that he is an attention seeking media whore (as evidenced by his taking part in Big Brother) his independent thinking is no more than a way to get noticed. Towing the party line would just make him another faceless MP where as being a maverick and getting chucked out just gives him more attention as does this whole political party of one crap. He obvousily nows how to work voters but really 650 numpties like him in parilment really wouldn't do the country much good.

 

I don't think his independent thinking is just a way to get noticed to be honest. Galloway's principles are real enough, but as you say his media-seeking whoredom is also very real. But then again he's a politician and they all love the narcissistic reflection of their exposure in the media. I also think losing a party to represent and having not been able to guarantee an MP salary meant that he has courted the media for income. Big Brother and the cat thing? Well that's another matter.

 

I don't want to sound like a Galloway apologist because much of what he stands for is at odds with my own views, but to dismiss him so lightly is not fair. I remember watching a video of him debating the validity or otherwise of the Iraq war with the late, great, Christopher Hitchens. Most people that went up against Christopher Hitchens in a debate on the middle-east or religion often came away having had a new one ripped for them. To my mind Galloway's position was false but his apparent knowledge of the minutiae of middle-eastern politics and his ability to pressure Hitchens was very impressive. As was his undoubted passion for the struggle of the 'Arab' world against Israel, the US and the UK. If you've got time and you enjoy watching a good debate, Google for the video as it's well worth a watch. He's also married to a Lebanese and a previous marriage was blessed in a Muslim ceremony so these are not decoration.

 

650 independent thinkers in the House of Commons, each able to make decisions that might go against their party's whip in order to better represent their constituents and their consciences. That'd be no bad thing.

[pap]

You think just because people vote it means multiculturalism hasn't failed. One of the opening posts on here quoted the 'Muslim vote'. It's his main support, look where he's had success. The fact that it can be described as and targeted as 'a Muslim vote' says plenty about the lack of success of multiculturalism.

 

A few things here. First, there is no 'Muslim vote' per se. Muslims vote and stand for different parties. To suggest otherwise is akin to saying all Muslims are the same.

 

Second, it's very easy to say that anything has failed when you don't have anything to measure success by, or indeed, not interested in something being a success at all.

 

There are plenty of success stories that have been born through our current melting pot. A lot of my Asian friends at school have married White European partners. I'm the second generation product of one of these relationships myself.

 

So let's not pretend that all Muslims are the same, or that all choose to live away from the rest of the population. I understand that a lot do choose to live in areas surrounded with people from the same ethnic background, and I can understand why. If you're getting abuse from people based on the colour of your skin or your cultural differences, then I can see why you would move to an area where these problems are more or less eliminated.

 

Fortunately, some people, like my Pakistani grandfather, stick it out. He's lived in the same house for over 30 years now and I don't think anyone would even think about giving him racist abuse now. Why? Because people know him, know how he has behaved for 30 years and know that in pretty much all senses, he has exactly the same worries and issues in life as them.

 

And that's the thing that many people forget when looking at multiculturalism - that people are essentially the same. Ignorance has warped the vision of many so that they only see the differences and they want to talk about the bad stuff.

 

In a sense, it's just like all our other news. Hundreds of thousands of schoolkids get home safely every day after school, yet its never reported on the news. Similarly, we see innumerable benefits of multiculturalism every day, but the news is never going to report them.

 

You want to see failed multiculturalism? Zoom off to Sudan or Israel. Here, we've simply got problems. Surely the best approach that we can take is to attempt to solve them, rather than bleat "It's all f**ked - can never be fixed".

Edited 31 March, 2012 by pap

[Sour Mash]

Just seen the pictures of him being lifted up by his supporters after winning, looks like a scene from down town Lahore.

[Thedelldays]

galloway will go to the next asian community to win votes when he is ousted from this seat

 

he is a loon

[saintbletch]

Just seen the pictures of him being lifted up by his supporters after winning, looks like a scene from down town Lahore.

 

White, Scottish, Catholic man hoisted in praise by British Asians?

 

Your point is that multiculturalism is alive and well in Bradford West?

[Thedelldays]

White, Scottish, Catholic man hoisted in praise by British Asians?

 

Your point is that multiculturalism is alive and well in Bradford West?

would have to ask all those that live in bradford to see if they agree

no denying it, galloway targets the asian/muslim vote..

 

you think he would win in down town plymouth, pompey, oxford..?

no