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Did Nick Illingsworth Really Say This


Gemmel

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Taken off a skate board, so apologies if he didn't.

 

But if he did, then he is as thick as fook. I've met him a few times and like the bloke (Genuine die hard Saints fan) and the stick he gets for being the fans representitive is uncalled for, but if this really his take on the news today, then he probably shouldnt be talking to the press on anything to do with Southampton FC,.

 

The coverting of loans into equity is little more than writing off the debt, quite how it means thery are tightenin the screw is beyond me.... Go ask Chanerai.

 

Sorry Nick, nice guy, but if this is your article, then you are the guy betting on a pair of two's when the othe guy hold's quad aces.

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly our income this season wont have increased hugely, the difference between league one and the Championship is minimal, literally the tv money plus gate money (4k average increase @ £17 per ticket average = £1.56 million) probably all off set against increased wage bill.

 

The key point is that our wages equate to 93% of our income, think how much we have been slaughtering Pompey for having such a high wage bill and how that is the road to disaster, Personally I dont think there is much to worry about, but the inference is clear, the Libeherr family are in this for money, whether markus loved the club is now sadly not an issue, but converting loans to shares, although just shifting paper, shows that they are tightening down the small print on the contract.

 

The reality is that we have and are making a loss, the only differnce between us and Pompey is that our owners havent been arrested and had their assets frozen and therefore cant pay the bills.

 

All I am saying is we have spent the last six months berating Pompey supporters for allowing owners to come in and spend money that the club doesnt have and how they havent learnt their lessons, yet we are in exactly the same boat.

 

As I say i dont think the liebherrs are of the same ilk as Pompeys owners, but that doesnt change the points about overspending, two years after admin and the accounts show that we have got into worse expenditure against income than that we had before

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Doesn't sound like something Illingsworth would say to be honest. Is also lacking the basic logical understanding that we have an ownership which pays all the debts the club accrues, they never have had. Pretty simple really.

 

Their only crime was over-reaching and continuing to do so long after it was obvious they couldn't afford it and not making any effort to cut costs accordingly. We CAN afford it with the current ownership. Every club would be in trouble if their funding was pulled, most try to adjust - they didn't, when it happened to us, we did.

 

The stuff about "tightening up the contract" sounds like it's been written by Corp Ho if anyone.

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Anyone else glad muppets like this are prevented from getting Season Tickets? I wouldn't want this kind of custom in a business I owned.

 

Perhaps NC had a point at first if he took umbrage at his comments in the name of a fans group that really didn't exist , but the continuation of this ban is petty.

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Anyone else glad muppets like this are prevented from getting Season Tickets? I wouldn't want this kind of custom in a business I owned.

 

As critical of Nick as I am, a reason for why he was denied should have been made known. Either way views like the one's expressed there reaffirm my view that individual fan representation is dangerous because an individual will always have a potential to air feeling that is contrary to the 'mass' verdict.

 

Mind you, a critical eye can sometimes provide perspective.... yet here my own personal feeling is we are seeing views of someone who due to personal history cannot provide a balanced opinion on how we conduct ourselves at board level.

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I think I prefer the football forum negativity that results from not winning a football game to the negativity that unfathomably arises from an upbeat financial statement.

 

Sigh.

 

All of which reminds me....we have a game in a little over 40 hours. Hoorah.

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A few lines of personal opinion on an internet message forum can hardly be deemed representative of what the majority of fans may think, ergo I really dont see any problem with what he has said - not that I agree with it.

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Why do I get the feeling that there seems to be a lot of boat rocking at the critical part of the season. Overspending, club up for sale...blah blah blah.

 

Just hoping that it is just me and that we can get over that finish line, and then the club can start making some serious money, back where we belong.

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A few lines of personal opinion on an internet message forum can hardly be deemed representative of what the majority of fans may think, ergo I really dont see any problem with what he has said - not that I agree with it.

 

When it's from someone who is quite happy to perpetuate the image of 'voice of the fans,' it is a problem.

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Perhaps NC had a point at first if he took umbrage at his comments in the name of a fans group that really didn't exist , but the continuation of this ban is petty.

 

Petty? Maybe.

 

The fact is though, SFC is now a privately owned company, run by NC.

 

IF Nick Illingsworth was a regular in a pub and then started to slag off the landlord to everyone else that frequented said pub then NC would be well within his rights to bar him.

 

As I see it, it is effectively the same deal. SFC is run by NC, if NC see's it fit to bar people that slag off his work then there's little anyone can do about it.

 

Personally, I don't really understand how anyone can be overly critical of Cortese. I am not saying he has made no mistakes, or that he is beyond reproach or questioning, but I really believe the progess SFC has made under his tenureship is unquestionable, and he has played a MASSIVE role in this. For this Cortese has earned (IMO) maximum levels of respect and deserve massive amounts of credit.

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At the end of the day who cares? If he wants to compare Markus and what he has done to what's going on at Pompey then by all means go for it. It is his own opinion and he is entitled to it. However it is a moronic view which has a sense of bitterness about it. Just his opinion.

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I have also met Nick and found him to be a decent bloke, passionate about saints and as is his right holder of strong opinions that I might not agree with but respect his right to hold them. However using the 'pub landlord' analogy from above, he's made a rod for his own back from day one, because not only has he slagged the landlord off to the regulars, because of his SISA connections and his willingness to give them a quote not just slagged the landord on his small web page, but takes out adds in the local paper and on TV slagging the pub and landlord - even if he thinks he has the right to as he considers the landord only a tennent rather than the freeholder, his 'bar' is hardly surprizing.... he sure knows how to win friends and influence people...

 

So why is Cortese so concerned by something that within his scope of responsibilty is seemingly so trivial? Simpley because what some even on here believe is a stubborness, is in my mind a single minded determination to let NOTHING derail or detract from the project. Everything must be right and in place and there is no room for whinging passengers on this bus - it may not sit well with everyone that the club progress is governed by such an assertive strategy, but no one can argue with the results to date! Its working and working wel, ahead of schedule and that is only because NC has not been afraid to make decisions, decsions that are ultimately in the best interests of the club, even if not always in the best interests of ALL the fans. Its a business approach for sure, but one that has dragged the club (with not so much kicking and screeming, but certainly an element of scratch and name calling) from the depths of L1 to the brink of the prem in 3 years...

 

Anyone who thinks that could have been achived without money is naive. But the 'provision' for this was hinted at from day one, and although rumour it was hinted that this pot might be apprximately 50 mil - it be no surprize to me if by the time next years accounts are published that is the level of the total investment to get us back to the prem - whilst some will argue its notliving within your means, it is if that money has created an asset worth more that its costs, which it certainly will have if promoted. The Liebherr family may or may not ant to sell and move on and given the support they have provided following Markus's sad early death, we certainly should not have a bad word to say about that - we should be extremely grateful.. and whatever their feelings, I am sure they will be satisfied with teh return they recieve form tehir late fathers investment.

 

Yes, I believe Markus did see it as a low risk (in his financial terms) opportunity for a semi-retired hobby business, on which a return could be made - a rare thing in football, but I suspect he he surprized himself at just how much fun it could be. Sadly he is no longer with us to see the fruits of the graft that NC, the staff, manager and playesr have put in to achieve the progress we have to date, but I also believe this has made NC even more determined to ensure he can deliver on the strategy that his close friend was so willing to invest in.

 

For me, Nick's opinion is his own and he is always entitled to it, but to compare in anyway the strategy at Saints under Markus and NC with the shambles and ethical nightmare delivered by successive owners down the road is nothing short of scandulous - Nick should be ashamed of that.

Edited by Frank's cousin
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I would never have known he said that if it wasn't for this thread.

 

and I expect that applies to about 98% of Saints fans.

 

True, but thats the issue, easy to find, easy to spread, easy to influence opinion, attitude etc - web makes it easy for all us scrotes to have our soapbox. The rapidity with which the search engine bots catalogue the info, means its availble to any Journo in almost real time and brown stuff can be stirred...

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He's always had an agenda. He's part of a small group thats wants Saints to be a forever parochial club thats always struggling so they can have some influence. In essence the "fanontheboard" lot.

Edited by manji
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He's always had an agenda. He's part of a small group thats wanted Saints to be a forever parochial club thats always struggling so they can have some influence. In essence the "fanontheboard" lot.

 

It's a shame the misery brigade hasn't had a look in for years now :lol:

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His views are clouded by the fact that he doesn't like Cortese. Simple. Ignore anything he says is my advise because it's not reasoned.

 

I keep seeing this from lots of people ''Southampton spending money they don't have, spending above their means''. Surely spending money we didn't have would mean that the £33m wasn't converted into shares? I'm sure Chelsa and Man City spent alot of money they didn't have to get to their level, but in reality it's never been a worry because they know they have a solid base.

 

Comparing us to the Skates and their financial mess up is a bit of a joke, and if we did have the money from our investors frozen we would need to cut down a bit - so would city, chelsea etc etc...

 

If you want success you need to spend, and sometimes that requires a little bit of investment from the owners. What's wrong with that? People seeing this in a completely wrong light as usual.

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Skates are clutching at starws to try and make them feel better about their own mess - and have latched on to Nick's ill-informed bitterness as a 'sensible' view LOL.

 

It does not bother me that some have these odd and ignorant views, but it does hhighlight how easy it is to prey on some fans fears and this has potential to unsettle the ill informed or naturally pessimistic - which can cause division, its for that reason taht those who have a more pragmatic and informed view should I believe try and present these issues with a more balanced perspective.

 

The Skates response was laughable, expected but did highlight 2 things that it would be normal to worry about WITHOUT all the teh factual information to hand:

 

1) the wage to revenue ratio in isolation at 93% is extremely high and 2) if sold we could have new owners who might levergae the purchase price against the club as debt.

 

My HO is that 1) the target is self sustainablity which is only possible if a) you are happy in a mid table lower league position or b) have prem income without going mad in transfer and wage spend and build cyclical success through developing talent through the acedmy and doing what NIge has done. Taking journeymen and coaching them to be the best they can be - improving fitness and skill - somethig we have a good tradition of, be it with the likes of Armstrong, to Mazza or even a young James Beattie, to a Lambert etc. In order to achieve b in such a short time frame you need to invest cash - we have not thrown stupid money at it because the total investment has always been lower than the total value of the asset. It becomes a concern only when the levels of investment/spend exceeds the asset value and there is no provision or guarrantee that if the monies need to be repaid, its possible to do so through the revenue streams as a whole. In our case it shoudlnever have benn a concern as it was made claer/obvious at the outset that Markus made provision for this strategy. Given is overall wealth, the provsion was realtively small so we knew he would need to 'borrow' this cash from some pension fun, lithunian savers or funnel in cash proceeds from illegal arms sales...

 

2) leveraged buy outs are horrible things, hate them but can work if managed ethically and the owners are decent - which no one can guarrantee - however, I dont belive NC would consider such an option without appropriate safeguards as he has proven not only by his managemnet style but through his associated and trust with the Liebherr family that the ethical aspects of business are very important to him.

 

So I really believe (to teh best of my knowledge) that we are in sound and safe hands both now and for the foreseeable future - no one knows what the long term hold and saoints fans have always had enough wits about them to scrutinise the situation and kick up a fuss if we see actions that are financially damanging... unlike those '200,000 bestest fans' down the road, most of whom seemed happy taking loans form the child maimer to fund a cup run and then not pay for it - we all know that the vast majority of saints fans would be appalled had our club behaved in that way... and dare I say, would have started a pheonic club in the lower leagues to prove it (although Total Network Solutions already bagged the 'New Saints' Name ... ;-))

Edited by Frank's cousin
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Can't see a lot wrong with it myself, whether he said it or not. It's just a "glass half empty" view.

 

It has struck me more than once that while other clubs in the league takes a huge "shyte or bust" punt on promotion, here at Saints we don't do that, we "build a team this year to compete in the league above next season".

 

We are Southampton, we spend what we want.

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He's always had an agenda. He's part of a small group thats wants Saints to be a forever parochial club thats always struggling so they can have some influence. In essence the "fanontheboard" lot.

 

At one time I might have agreed with you (i've not got much time for um pahars tbh) but Nick is alright and he's got off his arse and done stuff for other fans and is a genuinely nice bloke.

 

This isn't him talking to the press - it's just him typing ******** on his forum just like everyone else does.

 

Shame on Gemmel for trying to make a big deal out of nothing.

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As critical of Nick as I am, a reason for why he was denied should have been made known. Either way views like the one's expressed there reaffirm my view that individual fan representation is dangerous because an individual will always have a potential to air feeling that is contrary to the 'mass' verdict.

 

Mind you, a critical eye can sometimes provide perspective.... yet here my own personal feeling is we are seeing views of someone who due to personal history cannot provide a balanced opinion on how we conduct ourselves at board level.

 

He was denied a season ticket due to Cortese being angry about an article he wrote on the UI, I think it was critical of the removal of the installments plan for season tickets in the first season NC was here. This p*ssed off a lot of people, I remember a numb

er of posts on here about it. Nick went through the supporters charter or whatever its called and they agreed he'd been dealt with unfairly but never got a reply from the club over it.

 

As a fan going to the vast majority of games over 40 odd years and one who in the past has actually got off his arse and done stuff for the club I can understand him being p*ssed off, who wouldn't be? Cortese has acted very childishly and petty over this. S

ometimes I agree with what he says, sometimes I don't it's only an opinion FFS For clowns on here to be delighted because someone is banned from having a season ticket due to nothing more than an opinion on an Internet mong board is f*cking pathetic. It's a comment on an Internet mong board you dins.

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He was denied a season ticket due to Cortese being angry about an article he wrote on the UI, I think it was critical of the removal of the installments plan for season tickets in the first season NC was here. This p*ssed off a lot of people, I remember a numb

er of posts on here about it. Nick went through the supporters charter or whatever its called and they agreed he'd been dealt with unfairly but never got a reply from the club over it.

 

As a fan going to the vast majority of games over 40 odd years and one who in the past has actually got off his arse and done stuff for the club I can understand him being p*ssed off, who wouldn't be? Cortese has acted very childishly and petty over this. S

ometimes I agree with what he says, sometimes I don't it's only an opinion FFS For clowns on here to be delighted because someone is banned from having a season ticket due to nothing more than an opinion on an Internet mong board is f*cking pathetic. It's a comment on an Internet mong board you dins.

 

I think we need to start a new thread - Did Gemmel Make Himself Look A C/nt On The Spaz Web Forum

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Interesting to the usual Pavlovian knee-jerk reaction (geddit?) to the use of the words "Nick" and "Illingsworth" consecutivley. I actually read what he wrote:

 

- pargarph 1, statement of what is quite likely true: income up modelstly, wages up too.

 

- paragrpah 2: wages 93% of income is TRULY a worry, and one which wouldn't be allowed under some rules. Its not sustainable as a business, and is someting a lot of clubs have gone thorugh (incldugin SFC). "shows that they are tightening down the small print on the contract" is arguable - there might be other (tax?) benefits of this, plus the ability to trade. But it is in any event arguable.

 

- paras 3 and 4, well, pretty much true: the difference between profligate spenders is their ability to pay the bills at the end of each month. Ours can, poopeys cant.

 

- "i dont think the liebherrs are of the same ilk as Pompeys owners, but that doesnt change the points about overspending," Fair comment.

 

OK, slag him off because he eats children, but at kleast address the points he makes.

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If you want. Personally i've never understood the ferocity of hatred, but there you go.

 

I'm with you on this - if there was another world war then all this stupidness would be put aside, but it's just football rivalry at the end of the day and as suc it's not really important.

 

But getting back to this snide thread, the more i think about it the more annoyed I am by it because at the end of the day nick just posted a comment that you may or may not agree with and some slithery snakes decided it was OK to have a pop at him for it.

 

Welldone to all the decent people who've supported him because that is the right attitude to have.

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Anyone else glad muppets like this are prevented from getting Season Tickets? I wouldn't want this kind of custom in a business I owned.

 

We live in England, not North Korea. We live in a society where free speech is allowed. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I don't agree with what he's said and he doesn't seem to quite understand our financial situation but to think that warrants his ban from SMS? Ridiculous.

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Was a stupid comment but NI really does back up NC's stance on him and I can't seem him suffering fools like NI gladly. He effectively owns Saints so when someone mugs him off don't be suprised if he makes their life tough! Can't blame him really.

 

Just like he did when Puncheon mugged him off on Twitter and in the national media... oh.

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Anyone else glad muppets like this are prevented from getting Season Tickets? I wouldn't want this kind of custom in a business I owned.

 

Well he still goes to all home games and many away, he'll be at Blackpool this weekend, how many having a pop on here will be travelling?

 

I don't know Nick other than he's been a constant face for the 40+ years I've been going, home and away. I don't agree with a lot he says and it does seem there's bad blood between him and Cortese but I don't think he deserves the stick he gets from 'faceless' keyboard warriors, he easily found in the ground or boozers it you feel that strongly.

 

As far as our finances are concerned, I can't see how it compares to the cheating skates. We haven't pay extortionate transfer fees and wages, I'd suggest the biggest outlay has been Staplewood but surely that's an investment that will save us £millions in years to come, avoiding vastly over-priced transfer/agent fees by bringing through quality young players and, if the need be, selling one or two. As it stands, we've sold £40m of young talent in recent years, with the facilities now being put in place that can only improve.

 

That's not chucking money you don't have down the drain and hoping the taxpayer will bail you out like the skates, that's got to be good business.

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We live in England, not North Korea. We live in a society where free speech is allowed. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I don't agree with what he's said and he doesn't seem to quite understand our financial situation but to think that warrants his ban from SMS? Ridiculous.

 

No it's not! maybe if you are a minority, black, disabled, illegal, gay, Scottish/Welsh etc, but for the majority it's a case of 'pay your taxes' and shut the f**k up.

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