Funding for major projects

[CB Fry]

Laughable thread. Come on people. These people don't love us. They just happen to own us. And one day they will sell us. That's the five year plan in my opinion. Funnily enough Nicola doesn't say this to Radio Solent. No sh it he doesn't.

[Turkish]

For all you saying how wonderful it is that the developments are now Costing 3 times more than originally planned the reason for isn't because Cortese is a great guy and wants the players to have gold plated taps on their personalised baths, it's because the cost of what SFC were willing to pay and the what they wanted doing were miles apart. No building contractor would go near it for the price they were talking about. Why do you think it's taken so long for a brick to be laid?

 

*puts on tin hat and expects to be called all sorts of names for saying anything that suggests Cortese isn't the greatest man whoever lived *

[djharvey]

For all you saying how wonderful it is that the developments are now Costing 3 times more than originally planned the reason for isn't because Cortese is a great guy and wants the players to have gold plated taps on their personalised baths, it's because the cost of what SFC were willing to pay and the what they wanted doing were miles apart. No building contractor would go near it for the price they were talking about. Why do you think it's taken so long for a brick to be laid?

 

*puts on tin hat and expects to be called all sorts of names for saying anything that suggests Cortese isn't the greatest man whoever lived *

 

It's not a tin hat you want, it's a pointy one with a great big D on it!

[dune]

I don't expect it to be taken as particularly credible, I can't support it with evidence, so as I say, it's my take on things, that's all. Cortese lie? I haven't said that at all.

 

The problem I have with what you're saying is that I can't see such info being leaked. I don't know your source and you obviously won't divulge.

[MarkSFC]

I think that Southampton FC was actually a sort of a gift of a project to Cortese from Markus. for Markus I expect the purpose was mainly sporting and personal and far far less money orientated than alot of people think.

When ones personal fortune is supposedly in the billions then making 50 million by investing say 50 million isnt actually going to make any difference to ones lifestyle.

For Cortese it will be a life changing project I suspect. It will be his career defining role and on top of that he will be driven by the memory of his friend.

I like the lack of public connection with the club shown by the liebherr family and that just fuels speculation of a lack of interest. This may be accurate but equally it could show a complete and utter trust in Cortese and a desire to let him carry out the wishes of their relative.

For these reasons i think that we are actually in very safe hands for the next few years. there will be a point in the future that is the best moment to sell and maybe they will take it. And if they do fair enough because we will be in a hugely better place than we were when Markus and Nicola took over.

[Leicestersaint]

There seems to be quite a lot of highly speculative nonsense on here which simply does not stack up. i see no evidence of anyone getting ready to sell the club in the foreseeable future.

[Matthew Le God]

For all you saying how wonderful it is that the developments are now Costing 3 times more than originally planned the reason for isn't because Cortese is a great guy and wants the players to have gold plated taps on their personalised baths, it's because the cost of what SFC were willing to pay and the what they wanted doing were miles apart. No building contractor would go near it for the price they were talking about. Why do you think it's taken so long for a brick to be laid?

 

That is rubbish Turkish. You really make this all too easy.

 

The reason it is costing 3 times more is because there is a lot more to it now than was included originally. Anyone that has even had the briefest look at the plans for the development on the New Forest Council website before Liebherr died and then look how much more there is in the resubmitted plans after his death can see that.

 

The main pavilion building is a lot bigger and now includes a lot more, there is a groundman building, security lodge, 3g pitch and improvements to the other pitches, new floodlights on a number of the outer-pitches and the main pitch, a stand with for two of the youth pitches, more landscaping of the entire site etc etc all ontop of what was announced originally. Plus in February 2012 the club submitted the plans for an academy building complex by the farm building on the site.

Edited 26 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Crab Lungs]

Any future projects should include the sought-after expertise of a FoB.

[up and away]

I would estimate we don't have anywhere near that. It wouldn't surprise me if the family decided to sell the club in the summer, or failing that the summer after if we stay up.

 

I think the Leibherrs have invested the money but entirely on the assumption that they would get the money back and this could happen sooner rather than later.

 

There was lots of talk of a five year plan, and I've always seen this as a finite period - ie the club being sold at the end of that five year period. In business terms its kind of a venture capitalist/turnaround strategy. Buy a business cheap, turn it around and sell on for a profit. I have never had any doubt that this is Cortese's aim, and was how he sold the idea to Markus - let's see if we can get this club from L1 to the Prem, because if we do we can get our money back. I have never really bought into the romance bit.

 

I'd say we are just ahead of schedule so we may well be sold sooner. Saints in admin in league one was a very rare opportunity to genuinely make money out of football - if they got it right and got into the Premier League within 3/4 seasons then they could get a decent return if they could sell the club on. So far, it is working like a dream for them.

 

There is no evidence the Liebherr family have invested any money in Saints, only Markus. There is no pressure on getting any money back or sell the club, it was never part of their portfolio in the beginning. When ever the term 5 year plan has been used by Cortese or Liebherr it is in conjunction with promotion to the Premier league, this is categoric. Liebherr even talked about Champions League, well bearing in mind they allowed 5 years to get into the Premier, it really sounds that Liebherrs "long term" vision when he bought the club, extended well past that 5 years.

 

Markus had owned the club for a season when he made allowances for it to continue after his death. It would have been so simple and easy at that point to put the club up for sale if the only reason was financial. Why would anyone want to try and control an investment way past their death for such a minimal return, even if you got a good price for the club. Yes minimal return, it hardly makes a scratch on his £3B fortune. Even after all the hard work and struggle several years on you may if lucky come out with £30M profit (without looking at tax). That £30M profit represents 1% of his wealth, just why would you bother with such an inconsequential amount and trouble when you are on your death bed?

 

I believe Markus like the rest of us got caught in that love affair that is Saints, cemented in place by that Johnstones Paint Trophy at Wembley. He wanted that dream to continue even though he would not be there to witness the events. That's why I believe he set up a trust to continue long after his death, administered by Cortese and his family. There is just no rational for a multi billionaire to concern himself with such minor values when on his death bed, unless for other than monetary reasons.

[Sour Mash]

Any future projects should include the sought-after expertise of a FoB.

The Fan on the Board thing is obviously seen as a bit of a joke now and isn't really applicable in our situation, but plenty of current, successful examples of fan involvement in club ownership/management.

[Matthew Le God]

In his previous interviews Cortese had with the BBC he even hints of (and uses the term) "a 10 year plan", on top of the 5 year plan commonly mentioned on this forum. The "5 year plan" is merely to get back to the top flight, which they are clearly ahead of schedule for.

 

In any case just because they use the term "X number of year plan" it doesn't mean at the end of that period they won't to sell up. Just that that is the timeframe to achieve one aim, they then could set new aim once that is achieved. Which Cortese's use of the phrase "10 year plan" hints at.

Edited 26 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Ken Tone]

I know but I'm not tellin.

 

I'd been going to reply that I knew nothing but was prepared to tell -- but then I read the rest of this thread and realised that many people have in effect beaten me to it.

[CB Fry]

There is no evidence the Liebherr family have invested any money in Saints, only Markus. There is no pressure on getting any money back or sell the club, it was never part of their portfolio in the beginning. When ever the term 5 year plan has been used by Cortese or Liebherr it is in conjunction with promotion to the Premier league, this is categoric. Liebherr even talked about Champions League, well bearing in mind they allowed 5 years to get into the Premier, it really sounds that Liebherrs "long term" vision when he bought the club, extended well past that 5 years.

 

Markus had owned the club for a season when he made allowances for it to continue after his death. It would have been so simple and easy at that point to put the club up for sale if the only reason was financial. Why would anyone want to try and control an investment way past their death for such a minimal return, even if you got a good price for the club. Yes minimal return, it hardly makes a scratch on his £3B fortune. Even after all the hard work and struggle several years on you may if lucky come out with £30M profit (without looking at tax). That £30M profit represents 1% of his wealth, just why would you bother with such an inconsequential amount and trouble when you are on your death bed?

 

I believe Markus like the rest of us got caught in that love affair that is Saints, cemented in place by that Johnstones Paint Trophy at Wembley. He wanted that dream to continue even though he would not be there to witness the events. That's why I believe he set up a trust to continue long after his death, administered by Cortese and his family. There is just no rational for a multi billionaire to concern himself with such minor values when on his death bed, unless for other than monetary reasons.

 

Good for you. So we're in the hands of the Leibherrs forever now on the back of the old man going to the cup final?

Maybe his death bed agreement (if you really want to talk of such things) involved "seeing us right" and into the Premier League and then let some other ever-so-lucky soul have the pleasure of "falling in love with us". Or something.

 

I love how Saints to the Leibherrs is, according to you, completely inconsequential and, at the same time really important. So that's all right then.

[Frank's cousin]

... well whatever the real situation a couple of things are factual

 

1. If/when/sell...interested i long term or not... we will be in a far better position and worth alot more than when Markus decided to buy us

2. Cortese is driven by a desire for success and to make money - but that is only possible if the club reaches and exceeds it potential

 

so feck all to worry about IMHO.

[up and away]

Good for you. So we're in the hands of the Leibherrs forever now on the back of the old man going to the cup final?

Maybe his death bed agreement (if you really want to talk of such things) involved "seeing us right" and into the Premier League and then let some other ever-so-lucky soul have the pleasure of "falling in love with us". Or something.

 

I love how Saints to the Leibherrs is, according to you, completely inconsequential and, at the same time really important. So that's all right then.

 

Just because Katrina has little interest in football or Saints, does in no way mean she would not be prepared to respect her fathers wishes if he wanted to set up a trust for Saints, along with any other member of the family. Especially when they have inherited more money than they know what to do with.

[CB Fry]

... well whatever the real situation a couple of things are factual

 

1. If/when/sell...interested i long term or not... we will be in a far better position and worth alot more than when Markus decided to buy us

2. Cortese is driven by a desire for success and to make money - but that is only possible if the club reaches and exceeds it potential

 

so feck all to worry about IMHO.

 

 

Correct and correct.

 

Which makes even more laughable the witterings of some people on here who have turned Markus Leibherr into the footballing equivalent of Del-Boy's mum. "He said to me on his death bed. He sajd, Del-Boy, make sure you invest in that training ground. And Del-Boy, it's now a ten year plan and never ever sell the club. Or something."

[Turkish]

That is rubbish Turkish. You really make this all too easy.

 

The reason it is costing 3 times more is because there is a lot more to it now than was included originally. Anyone that has even had the briefest look at the plans for the development on the New Forest Council website before Liebherr died and then look how much more there is in the resubmitted plans after his death can see that.

The main pavilion building is a lot bigger and now includes a lot more, there is a groundman building, security lodge, 3g pitch and improvements to the other pitches, new floodlights on a number of the outer-pitches and the main pitch, a stand with for two of the youth pitches, more landscaping of the entire site etc etc all ontop of what was announced originally. Plus in February 201

2 the club submitted the plans for an academy building complex by the farm building on the site.

 

And you think that has trebled the price do you? What boils down to a slightly bigger main building, a couple of new sets of floodlights, some improvements to the pitch, a couple of small extra buildings and a bit of landscaping? You claim this project is costing over £10m so these additions are costing more than £7m, if you are standing by your claim that the project is worth £10m or more to complete. Utter bollo*ks.

 

Though we shouldn't be surprised at your silly little claims. You are the person that claims we can double our current crowds because 10s of thousands of new fans will travel to SMS from place Truro, Wrexham, Bristol and Cardiff to watch premier league football and that Aston Villa, despite spending more than all the teams above them and being tens of millions in debt didn't spend big to finish sixth. Forgive me for not taking your nonsense seriously.

[SuperMikey]

Correct and correct.

 

Which makes even more laughable the witterings of some people on here who have turned Markus Leibherr into the footballing equivalent of Del-Boy's mum. "He said to me on his death bed. He sajd, Del-Boy, make sure you invest in that training ground. And Del-Boy, it's now a ten year plan and never ever sell the club. Or something."

 

Wow, nice way to put it.

 

I want NC in charge in the long term, because I finally feel that the club is being run properly, but if he and other interested parties decide to sell up then they'll certainly be leaving us in a better position than the one we were in 3 years ago.

[up and away]

Correct and correct.

 

Which makes even more laughable the witterings of some people on here who have turned Markus Leibherr into the footballing equivalent of Del-Boy's mum. "He said to me on his death bed. He sajd, Del-Boy, make sure you invest in that training ground. And Del-Boy, it's now a ten year plan and never ever sell the club. Or something."

 

You stupid old thwat. Markus set up the trust for Saints in the knowledge he was dying. This has nothing to do with the rest of his family making provisions for Saints once he had passed away.

[CB Fry]

You stupid old thwat. Markus set up the trust for Saints in the knowledge he was dying. This has nothing to do with the rest of his family making provisions for Saints once he had passed away.

 

So that's that then. Fu ck ing brilliant the old man covered every single possible eventuality in the documentation so no relation ever has to make a decision about Saints ever again. And here's me worrying.

[shurlock]

Hopefully promotion could help fund more infrastructure projects. It's the only way to succeed. I know most fans look short term, but it ends up like our cheating little neighbours all too easily. Even if you have a good season or two. I have far more respect for the clubs using the extra money to build for the long term. You ensure setbacks won't destroy the club, and of course become a bigger club with it. Better training facilities, better stadium perhaps, better academy. All such investments increase the value and size of the club. Buying famous players can leave you with nothing when contracts expire or if they don't perform. Once again we'll show PFC how it's done and stay in the top flight for a very long time.

 

Apart from the academcy, infrastructure projects in football arguably run into the diminishing returns very quickly. The scouting network is probably the next low hanging fruit.

[benjii]

So that's that then. Fu ck ing brilliant the old man covered every single possible eventuality in the documentation so no relation ever has to make a decision about Saints ever again. And here's me worrying.

 

To be fair, if its in trust then that's quite a plausible scenario. The trustees would make the decisions, not the beneficiaries.

[Matthew Le God]

And you think that has trebled the price do you? What boils down to a slightly bigger main building, a couple of new sets of floodlights, some improvements to the pitch, a couple of small extra buildings and a bit of landscaping? You claim this project is costing over £10m so these additions are costing more than £7m, if you are standing by your claim that the project is worth £10m or more to complete. Utter bollo*ks.

 

Oh dear Turkish.

 

BBC reporter Kris Temple just said it is costing £15m. Consider also that the £1m training dome is already built and remaining in place and the club own the land already so that £15m is all on the development rather than land purchases or indoor training facilities.

 

Apology time again for you?

Edited 28 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Turkish]

Oh dear Turkish.

 

BBC reporter Kris Temple just said it is costing £15m. Consider also that the £1m training dome is already built and remaining in place and the club own the land already so that £15m is all on the development rather than land purchases or indoor training facilities.

 

Apology time again for you?

 

Actually I'm rather worried and think we might have been fleeced. 3 times the price which means we are paying £10m for an extension the pavilion, a few sets of floodlights, a security hut and s bit of landscaping. Seems a ridiculous amount of money to me, given you think there is no chance at all we got our sums wrong originally and couldn't find anyone to do it for the £5m we wanted to pay.

[Matthew Le God]

Actually I'm rather worried and think we might have been fleeced. 3 times the price which means we are paying £10m for an extension the pavilion, a few sets of floodlights, a security hut and s bit of landscaping. Seems a ridiculous amount of money to me, given you think there is no chance at all we got our sums wrong originally and couldn't find anyone to do it for the £5m we wanted to pay.

 

Given Cortese's record of buying players from clubs in financial difficulties I think he is unlikely to be "fleeced". Fonte from Palace, Barnard from Southend, Richardson from Charlton, Stephens from Plymouth etc etc.

 

Looking at the improved plans on the New Forest website, along with the additional ones submitted last month and still awaiting approval for the academy, Staplewood is going to be up their with the very best in the Premier League in terms of facilities. It is little wonder it is going to cost £15m given the costs of lesser training facilities at other clubs.

 

In any case does it matter to any Saints fan that it costs £15m if it doesn't burden the club with unsustainable debt? Spending on infrastructure is key to building a long term business and has many benefits as I have already outlined that will create revenue.

 

You again attempted to belittle me in post #67, and have been shown to be very wrong. I can only see this trend continuing if you maintain your view the club shouldn't and/or won't improve St Mary's.

Edited 28 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Ewell]

Bloody hell and I thought the in-fighting and arguing was bad when we were in administration and getting relegated.

 

Wise up suckers we have never had it so good.

[Matthew Le God]

Wise up suckers we have never had it so good.

 

That is the side of the "argument" I have taken the whole time. Yes, Cortese should be open to criticism, and I will do if I feel it is justified. However I have seen little in the nearly 3 years they have been here to be critical of apart from a few relatively small issues in the grand scheme of things. This really does seem to be a golden era in the clubs 126 year history and one we should all enjoy.

[Avenue Saint]

That is the side of the "argument" I have taken the whole time. Yes, Cortese should be open to criticism, and I will do if I feel it is justified. However I have seen little in the nearly 3 years they have been here to be critical of apart from a few relatively small issues in the grand scheme of things. This really does seem to be a golden era in the clubs 126 year history and one we should all enjoy.

 

Spot on!

[Mowgli]

And so ends today's lesson on why there is no place for a fan on the board

[Sour Mash]

Bloody hell and I thought the in-fighting and arguing was bad when we were in administration and getting relegated.

 

Wise up suckers we have never had it so good.

No-one's really arguing or moaning are they?

[mafiboy27]

I'd like the area around the stadium to be developed. Its a bit of a ****hole really.

 

+1 but at the same time it has massive potential. Would love too see it developed as well

[CB Fry]

Bloody hell and I thought the in-fighting and arguing was bad when we were in administration and getting relegated.

 

Wise up suckers we have never had it so good.

 

Must have been a different Southampton finishing second in the top flight, and then eighth in the Premier League. Both of those feats achieved by the club under its own steam, not just bankrolled with free money from a billionaire.

[Dig Dig]

Must have been a different Southampton finishing second in the top flight, and then eighth in the Premier League. Both of those feats achieved by the club under its own steam, not just bankrolled with free money from a billionaire.

 

Yes but the feats you mentioned happened years and years apart from one another. If we can sustain a period of relative success then we really wouldn't have had it so good.

[djharvey]

Must have been a different Southampton finishing second in the top flight, and then eighth in the Premier League. Both of those feats achieved by the club under its own steam, not just bankrolled with free money from a billionaire.

 

 

Glass half empty?