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West Ham vs Royals - What do you Fancy

Lighthouse

By Lighthouse,
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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
I agree it would be fantastic, but, in my opinion, our no.1 goal is to get as many points between us and 3rd spot. If that means Reading pip us to the top spot then so be it.

 

Don't wholly agree. As I've said somewhere else on one of these discussions, there's a trade off.

 

Yes, winning the league is a "bonus" whereas promotion is the main aim.

 

But which would you hypothetically prefer:

 

1. 95% chance of promotion and a 60% chance of winning the division or

2. 94% chance of promotion and an 80% chance of winning the division?

 

I'd prefer the 2nd, even though it shaves a bit of our chances of going up.

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adysaint

adysaint

Posted
Posted

The energy supply company that I work for brought the Championship Trophy to our office last year and had it on display in Reception.

 

And I declined the oppotunity to get a photo with it as it didn't seem relevant to us in League 1.

 

Damm, that would be an awesome profile pic right now...:cry:

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Don't wholly agree. As I've said somewhere else on one of these discussions, there's a trade off.

 

Yes, winning the league is a "bonus" whereas promotion is the main aim.

 

But which would you hypothetically prefer:

 

1. 95% chance of promotion and a 60% chance of winning the division or

2. 94% chance of promotion and an 80% chance of winning the division?

 

I'd prefer the 2nd, even though it shaves a bit of our chances of going up.

 

I know this'll sound like I'm arguing for the sake of it but I'd take the extra 1% for promotion any day :-)

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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
I know this'll sound like I'm arguing for the sake of it but I'd take the extra 1% for promotion any day :-)

 

Do you really think there's no trade off?

 

E.g. what about

 

1. 95% chance of promotion and 60% chance of going up as champions or

2. 94.99999999999% chance of promotion and 80% chance of going up as champions?

 

Surely, you prefer option 2?

 

I'd think most folk agree there's a trade off...it's just a question of what this trade off is.

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Rasiak-9-

Rasiak-9-

Posted
Posted
Both.

 

It's not the absolute be all and end all of football to be in the Premiership.

 

Glory matters, not just financial considerations.

 

Being able to have "Football League Champions 2012" on our CV would be fantastic.

 

You're delusional. It isn't a trophy. It isn't glory. Its nothing.

 

Didn't you cringe and laugh at the Brighton fans singing "champione" when they won eh-hem. The third tier league?

Or when Gus Poyet said When people look back in ten years who won the league, it was Brighton...playing football.

 

In which position would you rather be in? Swansea/Norwich's or QPR's?

 

Seriously who the hell cares about 1st or 2nd. ALL will be forgotten come August.

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up and away

up and away

Posted
Posted
quote_icon.png Originally Posted by trousers viewpost-right.png

 

Whichever result keeps the greatest distance between us and 3rd place please

 

^ Still this

 

Simple logic.

 

Needs just a bit more logic. If West Ham beat Reading, that would mean Saints only have to win 3 games (one being the Reading game) and draw 1 game. The rest we can lose and get still have a good chance with goal difference.

 

If West Ham lose to Peterborough, then a Reading win would mean we can get away with just 3 wins and still get through on goal difference. But it's only after a West Ham loss against Peterborough that your theory comes into play, otherwise it can require 4 wins.

 

In practice, it would not surprise me that 3 wins and a couple of draws irrespective of other results should be good enough because it's a heavy run in for all the teams.

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cdvdtz

cdvdtz

Posted
Posted
You're delusional. It isn't a trophy. It isn't glory. Its nothing.

 

Didn't you cringe and laugh at the Brighton fans singing "champione" when they won eh-hem. The third tier league?

Or when Gus Poyet said When people look back in ten years who won the league, it was Brighton...playing football.

 

In which position would you rather be in? Swansea/Norwich's or QPR's?

 

Seriously who the hell cares about 1st or 2nd. ALL will be forgotten come August.

 

Still makes me laugh every time I hear someone on the radio/TV refer to Saints as last season's League One Champions (mostly because I can imagine how much the Brighton fans are pee'd off every time they hear it) :lol:

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cdvdtz

cdvdtz

Posted
Posted
Last time we were promoted into top flight, we finished 2nd and Spurs 3rd. We stayed up for 27 years and Spurs have been up there ever since. Bolton won the league and lasted 1 season before being relegated. I'm sure they'd have swapped their "league win" for 27 years.

 

While that may be true, some on here are acting as if winning the league is guaranteed to get you relegated in your first season, whereas finishing 2nd means that you'll definitely do well...

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted

Well I'll be disappointed if we don't go up as champions. Clubs like Saints don't get the chance to win things very often and we are in a great position to win the 2nd biggest trophy in our history. I don't give a toss who the league in 1978 and only survived for 2 season or who finished third in 1965 and lasted 43 seasons. None of it matters to us right now and none of it will matter ss to how long we stay up for. Ill say it again. The Championship will be the second biggest trophy we have ever won in our history. If you're happy just to skip to games grateful we are in with a shout of promotion then that's up to you, I want to go up in style.

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jjsaint

jjsaint

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Posted

I just want automatic promotion. 1st or 2nd doesn't matter to me.

 

Personally I'm not fussed which division we're in. However I do worry about the long-term health of the club if we fail to achieve promotion to the Premiership. If we don't go up this year, who's to say we'll go up next season? Or the one after that? Is it likely that ML's estate will continue to fund a 'five-year plan' that turns into six, or seven or eight? Do we as a club even have a right to ask for unlimited funds in a league which does not generate income?

 

I never, never, never want to go back to the way I felt in the spring and summer of 2009. The only way to ensure that we will continue to have a club to support is if that club is in the Premier League. Thanks to Sky and plastic top 4 fans for killing football, etc but that's the modern world :(

 

Therefore I am hoping for a Reading win if West Ham fail to win their game in hand on Tuesday. If Wham beat Peterborough then I may hope for a draw.

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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
You're delusional. It isn't a trophy. It isn't glory. Its nothing.

 

Didn't you cringe and laugh at the Brighton fans singing "champione" when they won eh-hem. The third tier league?

Or when Gus Poyet said When people look back in ten years who won the league, it was Brighton...playing football.

 

In which position would you rather be in? Swansea/Norwich's or QPR's?

 

Seriously who the hell cares about 1st or 2nd. ALL will be forgotten come August.

 

That's a pretty weird answer.

 

I'd say it's delusional to say winning the football league doesn't get you a trophy.

 

Obviously, today, I'd rather be in Swansea or Norwich's position than QPR's. But QPR aren't doing worse because they won the league. You don't start with a five or ten point handicap for going up in first place. So, last May, I'd prefer to have been QPR.

 

If we do win the league, I won't forget it by August.

 

I wish we'd won League One rather than Brighton. I can live with the fact that we came 2nd, sure.

 

But the extra silverware would have been most welcome.

 

Football isn't all about where you're going tomorrow, some of it is about winning stuff today.

 

I find it really bizarre that anyone can be completely indifferent between us finishing 1st and 2nd.

 

I'd have found it equally odd if back in 2003, Saints fans had said "I don't care if we beat Arsenal in the FA cup final or not. We've qualified for the UEFA Cup either way and in a few years time most people won't remember who won it anyway".

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)

Reading win is by far the preferable result for us, especially if West Ham lose at Peterborough. Opens the gap to 3rd. Promotion is the first goal, we can take care of Reading by beating them.

 

We cannot confirm promotion against the Skates though.

 

If we beat Blackpool, and West Ham and Reading lose all their games before that (except for Reading beating West Ham), we are still only 12 ahead of third with 5 to play. West Ham would be on 72 in third with us on 84, everyone having played 41.

 

If Reading beat West Ham Reading would be on 73 in third. If their match is a draw it's West Ham third on 73. We don't have enough matches before the Skates to get enough points to be far enough clear.

Edited by The9
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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
You're delusional. It isn't a trophy. It isn't glory. Its nothing.

Sorry, but you are the one who is delusional. Of course it's a trophy, historically one of the most revered in the world (after the FA Cup and probably the Jules Rimet). Below is what the trophy looks like (assume its not exactly the same one that has been played for since 1888 but not 100% sure of that). We have only ever won 3 proper trophies in our history, and only then if you count the JPT and the 3rd Division, yet some numpties don't consider the Football League Championship as worth winning. I blame it on Sky, and their pretence that football did not exist before the Premier League. Like the players and the management, thank the Lord, we want to win the Championship, being best loser is not good enough and will leave a sour taste just like losing did last year.

 

 

We?type=display

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
?type=display

 

As far as trophies go, its a thing of beauty. A perfect example of the contrast between old school tradition of "Division 1" and the bling, tacky Premier League ™ monstrosity.

 

Unfortunately though, as nice as it would be to win it, its all secondary to the actual aim of getting promotion to the top league. Winning the league is just the icing on the cake to getting out of this division; whether it happens by finishing first, second or up through the play-offs, the end result is exactly the same.

 

I'd prefer to win the league; of course I would, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But if you offered me now a guarantee of promotion this year, but going up in second place, I'd absolutely take it. No-one remembers who won the Championship 5 years ago, do they?

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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
As far as trophies go, its a thing of beauty. A perfect example of the contrast between old school tradition of "Division 1" and the bling, tacky Premier League ™ monstrosity.

 

Unfortunately though, as nice as it would be to win it, its all secondary to the actual aim of getting promotion to the top league. Winning the league is just the icing on the cake to getting out of this division; whether it happens by finishing first, second or up through the play-offs, the end result is exactly the same.

 

I'd prefer to win the league; of course I would, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But if you offered me now a guarantee of promotion this year, but going up in second place, I'd absolutely take it. No-one remembers who won the Championship 5 years ago, do they?

 

I can't remember who won 5 years ago.

 

But if Saints win this year, I'll treasure it for the rest of my life - and much more so than coming second.

 

On balance, I would NOT take 2nd place if offered it now. I can see the temptation - but I'd rather "twist" and shoot for first.

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cdvdtz

cdvdtz

Posted
Posted
As far as trophies go, its a thing of beauty. A perfect example of the contrast between old school tradition of "Division 1" and the bling, tacky Premier League ™ monstrosity.

 

Unfortunately though, as nice as it would be to win it, its all secondary to the actual aim of getting promotion to the top league. Winning the league is just the icing on the cake to getting out of this division; whether it happens by finishing first, second or up through the play-offs, the end result is exactly the same.

 

I'd prefer to win the league; of course I would, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But if you offered me now a guarantee of promotion this year, but going up in second place, I'd absolutely take it. No-one remembers who won the Championship 5 years ago, do they?

 

Sunderland (off the top of my head).

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
No-one remembers who won the Championship 5 years ago, do they?

 

I don't remember where Saints finished in 95% of the league seasons they've played in my lifetime either, doesn't mean I didn't want us to win every match I saw us play.

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Torrent Of Abuse

Torrent Of Abuse

Posted
Posted

If being second is great and being first is not all that, why are we trying so hard to get to the top tier instead of being content in the second tier? The Championship trophy is a beautiful one with a lot of history. I would be very proud for Saints to win it and have it recorded in the history books that we actually WON it. We have a history of coming up but not as champions. I think this side deserves the honour for all their hard work. To my mind it was slightly less of a party having us hold up a trophy last year which said we actually finished second.

 

We should aim for first and take our chances. That is the goal of winners and that's what these guys are.

 

Gone are the days of hoping results go our way because we cannot seize the initiative ourselves. This team is good enough to win games and beat off challengers. We reeled West Ham back in and their form floundered. I have every confidence in us getting more than the minimum required to get promoted. As champions.

 

I'd say "draw" as it seems sensible but really I am not that bothered. We are a side that wins now - not one that has to rely on others losing. Champions in other words. :)

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Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
As far as trophies go, its a thing of beauty. A perfect example of the contrast between old school tradition of "Division 1" and the bling, tacky Premier League ™ monstrosity.

 

Unfortunately though, as nice as it would be to win it, its all secondary to the actual aim of getting promotion to the top league. Winning the league is just the icing on the cake to getting out of this division; whether it happens by finishing first, second or up through the play-offs, the end result is exactly the same.

 

I'd prefer to win the league; of course I would, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. But if you offered me now a guarantee of promotion this year, but going up in second place, I'd absolutely take it. No-one remembers who won the Championship 5 years ago, do they?

 

Sunderland. HTH

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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

Posted
Posted
I don't think the WHam fans care about winning any more. If I'm reading KUMB correctly, most of them think they will walk it in the play offs!! :lol:

They are delusional on there. They also all thought they'd walk the league. I hope they end up in the play-off's - I won't be putting money on them to win it though...

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
West Ham to lose because it's one step closer to guaranteed promotion (plus we are good enough to win the other games anyway - it just takes the pressure off sooner)

 

^ This

 

Just for once, some people are jumping to conclusions in that, somehow, being content with 2nd first and foremost means we'd somehow be less happy if we went up as champions.

 

Of course, I'd be far happier if we went up as champions. All the pragmatists, such as myself, are doing is highlighting the order of priorities:

 

Priority 1 = auto promotion

Priority 2 = champions

 

But, yes....deliver both please Saints

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FarehamRed

FarehamRed

Posted
Posted

Just looking at the schedule after this weekend to the end ofthe season, and the number of days' rest players will have...

 

We're playing on

31st, 7th, 9th 13th, 17, 21st and 28th. Full rest days between games is:

6, 1, 3, 3, 3 and 6. Pretty tough.

 

Then I looked at WHam:

27th, 31st, 6th 9th, 14th, 17th, 21st and 28th. Rest days:

3, 5, 2, 4, 2, 3 and 6

 

And Reading:

31st, 6th, 10th, 13th, 17th, 21st and 28th Rest days:

5, 3, 2, 3, 3, and 6

 

Which makes our fixtures look fairly well spread out. WHam have twice got only 2 rest days between games, and reading have one occation where they have only 2 rest days. Our worst run will beon the 7th and then on the 9th. (1 rest day), with the first of these matches being the derby, which will no douby be a "high energy" occation. This makes thePalace game crutial, and one where we'll need the whole squad.

 

I know we have a good squad, and I assume WHam have too, but not sure about Reading. I can see them falling away.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

Best now is a reading win or at worst a draw - meaning whatever our result at blackpool a minimum of either 5 or 6 of 3rd - max 8 or 9 with a win, West Ham win and would put the pressure back on us to get a result - would be criminal if BFS and his hoofers go on a decnt run really, such arrogant ****ers...

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offix

offix

Posted
Posted
easy - reading win please. Our priority right now is not to win the league, but to get automatic promotion. After we've accomplished that, then we can go looking for a league title. A reading win would make that gap between us and west ham so much more comfortable - and it would have the bonus effect of annoying smug west ham fans. The title is in our hands anyway - we still have reading to play, so even if they do beat west ham, we could nullify their 3 point advantage (an advantage only obtained if we lose that day) by beating them at st marys. And there's still the 5.1 point gap anyway. This 'grinding out wins at the end of the season' thing is fantastic.

 

this

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted (edited)

For me now a draw. If a team is to win I favour West Ham for the following reasons. If West Ham win they are three points behind us but we have a better goal difference but don't play us again. If Reading win they are two points behind us but could beat us in which case they would be above us by a point, but if they lose to WHU they would be five points back and the result against us wouldn't change our position.

Edited by derry
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Cabrone

Cabrone

Posted
Posted

Now that Wham! have beaten Posh the perfect set of results for top 2 are a Wham! win against Reading and then we beat Reading.

 

Target for certain autos would then be 11 points from 6 games but could in all probability be only 10 points with our GD.

 

If you want the title it's a draw for Wham! v Reading and 12 points needed for mathematical certainty but likely to be 11 points (if we beat Reading).

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