Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I did. And I still think you're wrong when you stated that "we have the advantage". I can think of many other PL Cat 1 clubs who I consider would have the advantage over us. Can you list them please. Remember, we are talking about youngsters from the South West where we have a satellite academy in Bath. So journeys to Manchester, Liverpool etc aren't that easily workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 That training grounds looks better than Nottarf Crap Anything looks better than Nottarf Crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Well of course it is. No-one is surely arguing against that are they? It's only really today come out on this message board just how many clubs are likely to be Cat 1, so its natural to explore the exact benefits of what Cat 1 will bring over other Cat 1 clubs, what benefits there are over non Cat 1 sides, and what effect the changes will have on us (given that larger clubs can now fully scout in localised areas where we have previously been the biggest fish). There's plenty of arguing directly against it as a positive thing and by golly it's negative 1 positive 0 if you sum up this thread as a whole. Infrastructure, policy and procedure is all well and good but it's how it's implemented that's key, we've been good thus far and as long as we build on our past successes it's all good - time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 after reading the last couple of pages imagine we were not given cat 1 status what the convo would be like....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Well balanced objective views generally get villified/ignored by the simplified polarised view of insecure posters with axes to grind. Just look at the amount of posts by unregular posters after the promotion and the wealth of widespread input, all this has been slowly eroded by the usual suspects willing to nit pick posts on the back of a minority view to suit there bizarre insidious view points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Less than half the posts on this page were actually on topic. Give it a rest guys. If you truly find a few pixels on a monitor to be so offensive that you have to advise others to seek medical help...then I suggest you go out and get some fresh air. Or at least open a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynoldson!! Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 haha I have never been part of a forum that loves to argue so much, classic stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 How did this forum ever survive the Lowe vs Wilde vs Crouch era? Fck me, you guys will argue any small point to the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miffy Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 How did this forum ever survive the Lowe vs Wilde vs Crouch era? Fck me, you guys will argue any small point to the death. No we won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 That was only your final point. Putting me on your ignore list will solve your issues on this forum as would not replying to me or not being bothered what a stranger on the internet says. It is odd that you are concerned I in some way represent you on footballforums.net merely because by sheer fluke of birth happen to support the same 11 men kicking a ball around the field. I no more represent you, than you represent me. Being apparently that bothered about what a stranger says on Internet forums, especially when you, Matthew Le God, are not even abusive, makes Hypochondriac seem like a very peculiar person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Can you list them please. Remember, we are talking about youngsters from the South West where we have a satellite academy in Bath. So journeys to Manchester, Liverpool etc aren't that easily workable. South west is it. Pin our hopes there? There is our advantage??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Can you list them please. Remember, we are talking about youngsters from the South West where we have a satellite academy in Bath. So journeys to Manchester, Liverpool etc aren't that easily workable. Don't they have satellite academies then and if they don't what is to stop them setting them up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 South west is it. Pin our hopes there? There is our advantage??? It's the hotbed of young talent Jamie. Forget London, Manchester and the north east. All the top players of the future are going to come from Cornwall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 There's plenty of arguing directly against it as a positive thing and by golly it's negative 1 positive 0 if you sum up this thread as a whole. Infrastructure, policy and procedure is all well and good but it's how it's implemented that's key, we've been good thus far and as long as we build on our past successes it's all good - time will tell. No one is being negative, it's simply that it's not as unique as people were thinking. A year ago we were told we were one of only 3 clubs in line to get it, now it seems there are a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 No one is being negative, it's simply that it's not as unique as people were thinking. A year ago we were told we were one of only 3 clubs in line to get it, now it seems there are a lot more. In 3 years there will be 25+ of these CAT1 places. You will have the likes of man city, man u, arsenal, spurs all now able to fish in our ponds. Granted we can go to London and greater Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 No one is being negative, it's simply that it's not as unique as people were thinking. A year ago we were told we were one of only 3 clubs in line to get it, now it seems there are a lot more. But we were only told this by the master of statistics MLG could he have got it wrong ?? Questions need to be asked and I would if I knew what they were meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 (edited) No one is being negative, it's simply that it's not as unique as people were thinking. A year ago we were told we were one of only 3 clubs in line to get it, now it seems there are a lot more. In 3 years there will be 25+ of these CAT1 places. You will have the likes of man city, man u, arsenal, spurs all now able to fish in our ponds. Granted we can go to London and greater Manchester. But we were only told this by the master of statistics MLG could he have got it wrong ?? Questions need to be asked and I would if I knew what they were meant to be. As I have already said on numerous occasions now... in the summer of 2011 I said on this forum that I had been told as things stood only Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status as things stood at that time (i.e. if the audit was done the next day). I did not say that would always remain the case by the time the official audits were done this year, in fact I listed the teams I thought would also get cat 1 status. I made that quite clear at the time. Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place. Southampton on the other hand have gone above and beyond what the criteria asks for and Staplewood is better than a category one training ground needs to be. This is becoming a circular argument because the like of Turkish and Thedelldays appear want to read that I said something completely different to suit their battle against me. Edited 28 June, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 This is becoming a circular argument because the like of Turkish and Thedelldays appear want to read that I said something completely different. I don't think the previous paragraph is too complicated to understand, is it? With all due respect, most threads involving you and 'the like of Turkish and Thedelldays' are circular virtually before they begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 (edited) As I have already said on numerous occasions now... in the summer of 2011 I said on this forum that I had been told as things stood only Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status as things stood at that time (i.e. if the audit was done the next day). I did not say that would always remain the case by the time the official audits were done this year, in fact I listed the teams I thought would also get cat 1 status. I made that quite clear at the time. Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place. Southampton on the other hand have gone above and beyond what the criteria asks for and Staplewood is better than a category one training ground needs to be. This is becoming a circular argument because the like of Turkish and Thedelldays appear want to read that I said something completely different to suit their battle against me. Lose the persecution complex sunshine. I distinctly remember you banging on about what a great future we had as we've done this that and the other and investing in our academy to make us the best out there and how this meant your ambitions of a champions league side made up of academy graduates wasn't just a pipe dream. Now it seems we are just one of a number of clubs with good academies. Edited 28 June, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Lose the persecution complex sunshine. I distinctly remember you banging on about what a great future we had as we've done this that and the other and investing in our academy to make us the best out there and how this meant your ambitions of a champions league side made up of academy graduates wasn't just a pipe dream. Now it seems we aUstinov of just a number of clubs with good academies. Not on FM2012 we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Again, you haven't read my post. Of course the number was never going to stay at 3 clubs, I said that at the time! The intention was always for the tier 1 clubs to play in a league against each other, it wasn't going to be a league of 3 teams. EPPP has however significantly reduced the number of top tier academies from 40 to under 20. Saints have gone over and above the requirement for tier 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Again, you haven't read my post. Of course the number was never going to stay at 3 clubs, I said that at the time! The intention was always for the tier 1 clubs to play in a league against each other. It has however significantly reduced the number of top tier academies from 40 to under 20. Saints have gone over and above the requirement for tier 1. and I reckon, in about 3 years...this magical 20 number will have risen again the very same clubs we would have been in competition with to sign the top kids....eer, will still be in competition with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 and I reckon, in about 3 years...this magical 20 number will have risen again the very same clubs we would have been in competition with to sign the top kids....eer, will still be in competition with As I said a few posts back... Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut in numbers. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place and when some smaller Premier League teams drop out of the top flight they may downgrade to tier 2 so it could end up evening itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Again, you haven't read my post. Of course the number was never going to stay at 3 clubs, I said that at the time! The intention was always for the tier 1 clubs to play in a league against each other, it wasn't going to be a league of 3 teams. EPPP has however significantly reduced the number of top tier academies from 40 to under 20. Saints have gone over and above the requirement for tier 1. Most people have read your post about 12 times now as you keep reposting it. What you don't seem to understand is that what you originally said is now gospel and cannot be changed so your new position must be wrong there is it that hard to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 As I said a few posts back... Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut in numbers. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place and when some smaller Premier League teams drop out of the top flight they may downgrade to tier 2 so it could end up evening itself out. so, what happens when/if we drop out..? as if we keep signing teenagers, we will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Most people have read your post about 12 times now as you keep reposting it. What you don't seem to understand is that what you originally said is now gospel and cannot be changed so your new position must be wrong there is it that hard to get it. I don't have a "new position", my view is the same as my old position. i.e. as things stood on the day I posted in summer 2011, only Chelsea, Man City and Saints would get cat one if the official audits took place the next day. I said at the time a number of other clubs would also get cat 1 status by the time the official audits took place this year. My "position" hasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 so, what happens when/if we drop out..? as if we keep signing teenagers, we will Well Cortese revealed plans for Staplewood whilst we were in League One, started building it whilst in the Championship. It doesn't appear that Saints having category one status is reliant on Premier League status. As for "if we keep signing teenagers, we will". Can you name some we have signed to go straight into the first team? Also in order to maintain category one status it is a requirement that youth products play for the first team or you can lose cat 1 status in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Learn when to stop. i.e. now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Well Cortese revealed plans for Staplewood whilst we were in League One, started building it whilst in the Championship. It doesn't appear that Saints having category one status is reliant on Premier League status. As for "if we keep signing teenagers, we will". Can you name some we have signed to go straight into the first team? Also in order to maintain category one status it is a requirement that youth products play for the first team or you can lose cat 1 status in the future. And how do you propose this will be inforced? The FA won't be able to dictate who a manager picks for their first team. Can you imagine the FA threaten Alex Ferguson and Man United with removing their cat A status if he refuses to pick certain youth players for the first team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 As I said a few posts back... Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut in numbers. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place and when some smaller Premier League teams drop out of the top flight they may downgrade to tier 2 so it could end up evening itself out. So is it a closed shop then? Once 20 are selected they and only they can get cat 1 status everyone else might as well give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPTCount Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 banter devoid of humour is just b*tching tbh this is just nerd baiting I've always wondered tho, does it make ur penis feel bigger to bully ppl online...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 This is one of the most tragic threads I have ever seen... ...I mean seriously, its really embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 When does nerd-baiting season switch over to football-kicking season? I only ask because I have to work out if I have time to get a root canal without anaesthetic in before the upcoming "you old us it's a red shirt with white stripes when it's clearly a white shirt with red stripes" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPTCount Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 When does nerd-baiting season switch over to football-kicking season? I only ask because I have to work out if I have time to get a root canal without anaesthetic in before the upcoming "you old us it's a red shirt with white stripes when it's clearly a white shirt with red stripes" thread. is this a joke? can u not post with sore tooth? or do u post faster/stonger/harder/better with sore tooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 When does nerd-baiting season switch over to football-kicking season? I only ask because I have to work out if I have time to get a root canal without anaesthetic in before the upcoming "you old us it's a red shirt with white stripes when it's clearly a white shirt with red stripes" thread. Erm, you haven't been on the kit thread then. The upcoming debate is "wtf, where are the stripes?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 So is it a closed shop then? Once 20 are selected they and only they can get cat 1 status everyone else might as well give up. That isn't what I said at all. Read it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 And how do you propose this will be inforced? The FA won't be able to dictate who a manager picks for their first team. Can you imagine the FA threaten Alex Ferguson and Man United with removing their cat A status if he refuses to pick certain youth players for the first team? It will be enforced because every 2 to 3 years an independent organisation will perform another audit on each club. I've read a draft of the EPPP document, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 It will be enforced because every 2 to 3 years an independent organisation will perform another audit on each club. I've read a draft of the EPPP document, have you? That does not detract from the fact that personnel outside of a particular club can not dictate who is actually picked for the team by the manager/coach/chairman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 It will be enforced because every 2 to 3 years an independent organisation will perform another audit on each club. I've read a draft of the EPPP document, have you? I'd love to see them telling Alex Ferguson he Isnt picking enough youth players in his team. What's to stop clubs just turning round and saying they're aren't ready yet or good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 That does not detract from the fact that personnel outside of a particular club can not dictate who is actually picked for the team by the manager/coach/chairman If the manager doesn't play any youth products, the club run the risk of losing category 1 status. They aren't forcing clubs to use youth products, but they will lose category one privileges if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 That isn't what I said at all. Read it again. You've said you don't see this number rising. It is entirely possible it might be and we could easily be back up to 40 in a relatively short space of time, could we not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 If the manager doesn't play any youth products, the club run the risk of losing category 1 status. They aren't forcing clubs to use youth products, but they will lose category one privileges if they don't. I tell you know, the FA will not pull cat 1 status from any of the top clubs if they aren't playing youth players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 I'd love to see them telling Alex Ferguson he Isnt picking enough youth players in his team. What's to stop clubs just turning round and saying they're aren't ready yet or good enough? Because it will be accessed over a period of seasons, if they don't meet the requirements and make excuses they will simply lose their cat 1 status. As I've already asked... I've read a draft of the EPPP document, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 I tell you know, the FA will not pull cat 1 status from any of the top clubs if they aren't playing youth players. The top clubs are the ones that forced through EPPP in the first place. They have pretty much written it as it stands. Does that not suggest to you they are happy with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 Because it will be accessed over a period of seasons, if they don't meet the requirements and make excuses they will simply lose their cat 1 status. As I've already asked... I've read a draft of the EPPP document, have you? You didn't need to read an EPPP document to know that the FA are spineless and wont pull it from the top clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 You've said you don't see this number rising. It is entirely possible it might be and we could easily be back up to 40 in a relatively short space of time, could we not? I actually said this... "I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place and when some smaller Premier League teams drop out of the top flight they may downgrade to tier 2 so it could end up evening itself out." You decided to cherry pick and take the opening words of my statement out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 The top clubs are the ones that forced through EPPP in the first place. They have pretty much written it as it stands. Does that not suggest to you they are happy with it? They might be now, but will they be when they start being dictated to about who they can pick and who they can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 You didn't need to read an EPPP document to know that the FA are spineless and wont pull it from the top clubs. See post #345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 I actually said this... "I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place and when some smaller Premier League teams drop out of the top flight they may downgrade to tier 2 so it could end up evening itself out." You decided to cherry pick and take the opening words of my statement out of context. in your opinion you don't see the the number rising hugely. However, just like when deciding which club is biggest, do you have all the important information that tells you that it can't. Or is it the case that is is entirely possible the number might rise back up quickly as with the introduce of FPP and EPPP clubs invest in youth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 June, 2012 Share Posted 28 June, 2012 They might be now, but will they be when they start being dictated to about who they can pick and who they can't? The audits are carried out by an independent company, the rules were written and largely influenced by the heads of the top academies. Even still, Newcastle look to be missing out on cat 1 status after the first audit. That decision will stand if that is what the audit company tell the FA to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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