The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Very interesting post. I do agree with your points made. It's almost like there should be a 'ranking system' where the best academy is #1, the second best #2 etc. Like a league table of universities? Interesting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Sounds to me like, give it 5 years or so and every club in the Premier League and perhaps half of those in the Championship will have Category A status. With no new benchmark obvious to the outside observer as to which is any better than the other. Clubs have been spending in order to reach the cat 1 benchmark, EPPP has significantly raised spending in academies. Saints have gone over and above what is required and will be at the higher end of the cat 1 clubs. As I've said twice now, at the moment it is a 2 tier system with Saints in the top tier, it is becoming a 4 tier system with Saints in the top tier. SThe previous positive rhetoric of "we're one of only three clubs lined up for Category A status" has been significantly diluted to "we're doing what almost all other Premier league clubs are doing". Who said that? I certainly didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Worth noting that we were in League One when this was proposed, and we were STILL in Cat 1 even then. Category 1-4 didn't exist when Saints were in League 1. This is starting next season. Until now it has been a two tier system, 40 clubs are in the academy system (4 leagues of 10), the rest have centres of excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Who said that? I certainly didn't. You made reference to it on the previous page. I said as things stand in the summer of 2011 only Man City, Chelsea and Southampton would be in line to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Look at the local area, last season Saints and Pompey were both in the same academy league. Next season Saints will be in the category 1 league, Pompey in the category 3 league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 You made reference to it on the previous page. And what did I say after that?... Since then other clubs have invested in order to achieve the status. Of course it was never going to be just 3 clubs. There is going to be a category one league, how could you have just 3 clubs in it? It is going from a 40 team top tier of youth football in 2011/12 to a 18 to 20 team top tier of youth football in 2012/13. There will be half the number of teams in the top tier, Saints will remain in the top tier. Can you not see how that benefits Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 And what did I say after that?... It is going from a 40 team top tier of youth football in 2011/12 to a 18 to 20 team top tier of youth football in 2012/13. There will be half the number of teams in the top tier, Saints will remain in the top tier. Can you not see how that benefits Saints? how does it...really...in a big way..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 And what did I say after that?... It is going from a 40 team top tier of youth football in 2011/12 to a 18 to 20 team top tier of youth football in 2012/13. Can you not see how that benefits Saints? Well that's clearly not the point I was making is it? I said there was a previous rhetoric that we were one of three clubs in line for Cat A status. You said that, back whenever. Now, the reality is that there will be lots more clubs than 3 with Cat A status. Yes, it will benefit us. Yes, it's great to have. But are you saying that I'm incorrect in stating the previous rhetoric of "we're one of only 3 clubs in line to get Cat a" has since been diluted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I went for a job interview with the Premier League a couple of months ago, and happened to be waiting in the reception area when a load of youth coaches came out of a board meeting. They were studying handbooks on what the EPPP will do and what it means. It's pretty complex. I also know for certain that the league are doing all they can to get the positives of the EPPP out there - at the moment it's overwhelmingly negative. I don't think categorisation particularly matters, I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Well that's clearly not the point I was making is it? I said there was a previous rhetoric that we were one of three clubs in line for Cat A status. You said that, back whenever. Now, the reality is that there will be lots more clubs than 3 with Cat A status. Yes, it will benefit us. Yes, it's great to have. But are you saying that I'm incorrect in stating the previous rhetoric of "we're one of only 3 clubs in line to get Cat a" has since been diluted? Yes, because I made that comment in the summer of 2011 when the outline and preliminary visits had taken place. Even at the time I said there would be more than 3 teams that get it. All I said was that as things currently stand (in summer 2011) only 3 would get it. There was never going to be a category one league with only 3 teams in it. What has happened is that the top tier of youth football is being halved in terms of numbers from 40 to 18/20. Saints will be towards the top end of those 18/20 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red And White Barmy Army Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 MLG do you agree with my comments on the previous page? I'm interested as you seem to know more about it than most. In particular, will the standards and requirements continue to be raised every year, and is there a 'cap' on the number of academies that can be category 1 (i.e. 20)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I don't think categorisation particularly matters, I have to say. It will make a huge difference, Saints as a category one club are no longer restricted by the 90 minute rule. Clubs in lower tiers will still be. Also category one status allows clubs to have more training time with players. More coaching time generally results in better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 It will make a huge difference, Saints as a category one club are no longer restricted by the 90 minute rule. Clubs in lower tiers will still be. Also category one status allows clubs to have more training time with players. More coaching time generally results in better players. so what....that will be the same for the Man u, man city, chelsea, stoke, west ham etc......we will be competing with the very same sort of teams anyway...I can't really see how much will change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 MLG do you agree with my comments on the previous page? I'm interested as you seem to know more about it than most. In particular, will the standards and requirements continue to be raised every year, and is there a 'cap' on the number of academies that can be category 1 (i.e. 20)? The audit is by an independent Belgian company. In theory they should give category 1 status to any club that fulfils the requirements regardless of how many other clubs have it already. I would say the bar will be raised in the future, but unlikely by the time the next audits come round in 2 to 3 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Yes, because I made that comment in the summer of 2011 when the outline and preliminary visits had taken place. Even at the time I said there would be more than 3 teams that get it. All I said was that as things currently stand (in summer 2011) only 3 would get it. There was never going to be a category one league with only 3 teams in it. I'm not debating that's what you said, I think you're getting a bit confused. You said in 2011 that we were one of only three in line to get Cat A status. Now it is announced that there will likely be many more than 3 clubs with Cat A status. You can argue it if you like but you'll be incorrect. Going from the notion of having 3 clubs (with the potential for more) with Cat A, to up to 20 clubs being awarded it, is clearly a dilution of the previous inferred "exclusivity" of Cat A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 so what....that will be the same for the Man u, man city, chelsea, stoke, west ham etc......we will be competing with the very same sort of teams anyway...I can't really see how much will change There are currently 40 teams in the academy system. These are pretty much being split in two with Saints in the top tier with around 20 of the best academies. Teams like Palace, Newcastle, Leeds, Forest, Ipswich etc no longer will be in the same league system as Southampton beyond the first year. Saints also no longer will be restricted by the 90 minute rule as they are currently as to where they can get youngsters from. At the moment a lot of Saints area is in the English Channel! As a category one club this will no longer be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I'm not debating that's what you said, I think you're getting a bit confused. You said in 2011 that we were one of only three in line to get Cat A status. Now it is announced that there will likely be many more than 3 clubs with Cat A status. You can argue it if you like but you'll be incorrect. Going from the notion of having 3 clubs (with the potential for more) with Cat A, to up to 20 clubs being awarded it, is clearly a dilution of the previous inferred "exclusivity" of Cat A. I'm not getting confused at all. The FA in the summer of 2011 carried out preliminary audits to see at what level academies currently stand. Since then teams have been able to meet issues raised last summer. All I said was as things currently stand in June 2011, Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status if the official audit were to take place. The official audits have been taking place from March/April 2012 onwards and only now are we finding out the results. At no point did I say only Chelsea, Man City and Saints would get cat 1 status. At the time I even listed the other clubs I thought would make it. There is still some exclusivity about it, the number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I'm not getting confused at all. The FA in the summer of 2011 carried out preliminary audits to see at what level academies currently stand. Since then teams have been able to meet issues raised last summer. All I said was as things currently stand in June 2011, Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status if the official audit were to take place. The official audits have been taking place from March/April 2012 onwards and only now are we finding out the results. At no point did I say only Chelsea, Man City and Saints would get cat 1 status. At the time I even listed the other clubs I thought would make it. There is still some exclusivity about it, the number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams). I think you are getting throughly confused by what I was inferring in the first place, so we're best off moving on. The Cat 1 status will be a great thing for us; as it will for the other 19 or so clubs who are in line for it should they be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 (edited) I think you are getting throughly confused by what I was inferring in the first place. The number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams). That is a significant cut in the number of top tier youth teams. Saints are now going to be at a higher level than that of Newcastle, Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Charlton, Leicester etc etc. Last season they were at the same level. Edited 27 June, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Worth also noting that, when there, the aim of the owners was to return us to the PL within 5 years; that was their miniumum expectation. Great that it's all happened, of course. Yeah, but how many hundreds of clubs have been taken over with the owners promising that ? Crewe are well known for their academy and aren't in there, they're at the same level as we were then. There aren't many League One sides in Cat 1 consideration now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I think you are getting throughly confused by what I was inferring in the first place, so we're best off moving on. The Cat 1 status will be a great thing for us; as it will for the other 19 or so clubs who are in line for it should they be successful. I'm shocked that MLG has not mentioned that You imply, I infer. But anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 There aren't many League One sides in Cat A consideration now... Pompey have gone from being in the same academy league as us in 2011/12, to being a category 3 academy if they are lucky. Will now be even easier to hoover up the best Skate youngsters like Ward-Prowse and Oxlade-Chamberlain (not that it was that hard before ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Pompey have gone from being in the same academy league as us in 2011/12, to being a category 3 academy if they are lucky. Will now be even easier to hoover up the best Skate youngsters like Ward-Prowse and Oxlade-Chamberlain (not that it was that hard before ). Is their academy also in Eastleigh or do they just scuffle about in a field in Portsmouth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 The number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams). That is a significant cut in the number of top tier youth teams. Saints are now going to be at a higher level than that of Newcastle, Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Charlton, Leicester etc etc. Last season they were at the same level. Yeah, that's got nothing to do with my original point either. In any case, have fun, I'm off down the pub to watch Spain play Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 It will make a huge difference, Saints as a category one club are no longer restricted by the 90 minute rule. Clubs in lower tiers will still be. Also category one status allows clubs to have more training time with players. More coaching time generally results in better players. I didn't mean it like that. I mean that if say Middlesbrough, Charlton or Watford, who have superb records in producing players, are ranked lower than someone like Burton, are people really going to think their academies are worse? No. Reputation will still play a big part as it does now. And thank you, my tiny feeble brain wouldn't possibly have worked out that more coaching on the whole makes players better. Someone once told me you're a maths teacher, wouldn't surprise me. Belittling other people, taking everything literally, obsessed with detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I didn't mean it like that. I mean that if say Middlesbrough, Charlton or Watford, who have superb records in producing players, are ranked lower than someone like Burton, are people really going to think their academies are worse? No. Reputation will still play a big part as it does now. And thank you, my tiny feeble brain wouldn't possibly have worked out that more coaching on the whole makes players better. Someone once told me you're a maths teacher, wouldn't surprise me. Belittling other people, taking everything literally, obsessed with detail. Whilst I agree that MLG was perhaps being condescending with his remark, I don't feel your comment about maths teachers is very fair. Also don't spend your time bickering with each other, Turkish is getting away hassle free after his earlier escapades in this thread ^_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 The new build will help achieve category one academy status, which will be vital in youth team recruitment and give Saints an edge over many rival clubs. How many? And which ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 How many? And which ones? All those without category one status, which is going to be roughly 72+ of the 92 clubs in the top four leagues. As opposed to the current 52 clubs that are below Saints academy in terms of tier. I've already listed some in this thread, see post #267. But in particular those of larger clubs close to the 90 minute boundary (which will no longer apply to Saints). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 All those without category one status, which is going to be roughly 72+ of the 92 clubs in the top four leagues. As opposed to the current 52 clubs that are below Saints academy in terms of tier. I've already listed some in this thread, see post #267. But in particular those of larger clubs close to the 90 minute boundary (which will no longer apply to Saints). No, which ones of our RIVAL clubs. I don't think anyone in League 2 is going to be our rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I noticed arsenal still have not been granted CAT1. Let's say they don't. Will parents all of a sudden choose saints over arsenal if they were unsure? Of course not. Arsenal will still remain one of the best places in the country in youth development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 No, which ones of our RIVAL clubs. I don't think anyone in League 2 is going to be our rivals. Brighton, Palace, Charlton in terms of travelling distance. Palace and Charlton both have good academies, Brighton are planning to spend many millions on their academy. All look to be heading for cat 2, Saints can use cat 1 status to attract players in those regions. Portsmouth if they survive the summer will be cat 3 at best. Will make it even easier than it is already to take the best players from the area as cat 3 clubs are restricted as to which players they can sign and work with. Same with Bournemouth. Swansea and Cardiff, relatively close and Saints will be in tiers above both of them. Cardiff investing in youth with new owners but will still only be tier 2. Forest, Ipswich, Leeds, Birmingham, Newcastle all have good academies. All look to be getting category 2 status. Yes, they are much further away but Saints can use cat 1 status as a factor to tempt youngsters to relocate. Those just a few examples, could name a number of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Big rivals then. Thanks. This clearly gives us a massive advantage over those clubs compared to what we had before, when you put it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Why the sarcasm? Why do you think they aren't rivals? Where else do you think youngsters from those regions largely go? With the 90 minute rule no longer an issue for Saints, but remaining an issue for non tier 1 clubs it does give Saints an advantage. As does for example does Portsmouth as a tier 3 club no longer being able to sign 8 year olds and work with them for as many hours as Saints can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I would say, what ever advantage we would now get over Brighton, Pompey and Carlton........ We had anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I would say, what ever advantage we would now get over Brighton, Pompey and Carlton........ We had anyway This may have changed, but the EPPP document I saw last year has significant differences in terms of coaching hours that a tier one club can have with youngsters and also restricts tier 3 clubs (like Pompey will be) from signing players until they are 12 iirc. If that is how it was finally decided in the final proposal then Saints have an even bigger advantage over Pompey and Bournemouth than they do already, as they can sign up players before the other clubs are even allowed to start working with them. We have already taken Sam Gallagher and Jack Stephens from Plymouth Argyle in the last year, I'd expect even more youngsters from the South West and South Wales to go to the main academy or Bath Satellite as clubs like Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Yeovil Town, Exeter, Torquay will be restricted from working with youngsters until a later age than Saints as a cat 1 club can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Why the sarcasm? Why do you think they aren't rivals? Where else do you think youngsters from those regions largely go? With the 90 minute rule no longer an issue for Saints, but remaining an issue for non tier 1 clubs it does give Saints an advantage. As does for example does Portsmouth as a tier 3 club no longer being able to sign 8 year olds and work with them for as many hours as Saints can. The 90 minute thing is beneficial in some respects; but not so much in others at it opens up the same possibilities for every single other club with Cat 1 (which is apparently now going to be a significant number of clubs). You could say it weakens us, in that all Cat 1 clubs outside 90 minutes can now poach the area for all the talent we've previously had a bit of an advantage to sourcing. Our main rivals will be PL clubs, so I fail to see what immediate edge we will have over those with Cat 1 (which it appears will now be the vast majority of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Which ever way you want to spin it, it's a good thing FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 This may have changed, but the EPPP document I saw last year has significant differences in terms of coaching hours that a tier one club can have with youngsters and also restricts tier 3 clubs (like Pompey will be) from signing players until they are 12 iirc. If that is how it was finally decided in the final proposal then Saints have an even bigger advantage over Pompey and Bournemouth than they do already, as they can sign up players before the other clubs are even allowed to start working with them. We have already taken Sam Gallagher and Jack Stephens from Plymouth Argyle in the last year, I'd expect even more youngsters from the South West and South Wales to go to the main academy or Bath Satellite as clubs like Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Yeovil Town, Exeter, Torquay will be restricted from working with youngsters until a later age than Saints as a cat 1 club can. They both moved to us when they were 16, didn't they? How is this relevant to your point about Plymouth not being able to sign them until 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Which ever way you want to spin it, it's a good thing FFS Well of course it is. No-one is surely arguing against that are they? It's only really today come out on this message board just how many clubs are likely to be Cat 1, so its natural to explore the exact benefits of what Cat 1 will bring over other Cat 1 clubs, what benefits there are over non Cat 1 sides, and what effect the changes will have on us (given that larger clubs can now fully scout in localised areas where we have previously been the biggest fish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 They both moved to us when they were 16, didn't they? How is this relevant to your point about Plymouth not being able to sign them until 12? I didn't say they were under 12, just raising that Saints are scouting for youth team players in that region. The new rules may now allow Saints to bring in under 12's without competition from their local clubs as there would have been before EPPP. The academic part of EPPP makes a tier 1 club more attractive for parent of young footballers as Saints employs teachers on site, allows for more football coaching time and the youngsters will be playing against other elite academies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I didn't say they were under 12, just raising that Saints are scouting for youth team players in that region. The new rules may now allow Saints to bring in under 12's without competition from their local clubs as there would have been before EPPP. The academic part of EPPP makes a tier 1 club more attractive for parent of young footballers as Saints employs teachers on site, allows for more football coaching time and the youngsters will be playing against other elite academies. The new rules also now allow every single other club with Cat 1 status to scout there too though, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I noticed arsenal still have not been granted CAT1. Let's say they don't. Will parents all of a sudden choose saints over arsenal if they were unsure? Of course not. Arsenal will still remain one of the best places in the country in youth developmentThey don't need to. They just use ours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 MLG do you agree with my comments on the previous page? I'm interested as you seem to know more about it than most. In particular, will the standards and requirements continue to be raised every year, and is there a 'cap' on the number of academies that can be category 1 (i.e. 20)? I don't think MLG has the agreement gene - a chromosome missing from a strand prevents agreement! I think MLG would start a feckin argument with a pub beer mat!! Almost every thread I've looked at descends into posts and posts of rhetoric argument & the thread subject at the hands of the same Internet Warriors. No offence & I know my posts ramble but really, do you need to so vehemently battle every minor point? In fairness, this thread is play school compared to some bickering merrigorounds. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 The new rules also now allow every single other club with Cat 1 status to scout there too though, don't they? They do, but given Saints will be by far the closest team to the South West with category 1 status, I think that gives us the advantage. Along with having a better setup, facilities and record bringing through youngsters than a number of other category one clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 They do, but given Saints will be by far the closest team to the South West with category 1 status, I think that gives us the advantage. Along with having a better setup, facilities and record bringing through youngsters than a number of other category one clubs. Ah ok, being only 3 or 4 hours from Plymouth, rather than 4 or 5 will be a big advantage. Got ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Read it in combination with the second sentence rather than cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 Read it in combination with the second sentence rather than cherry picking. I did read it. I just disagreed with it. Slight difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 You only commented on the first part, not the second. You should be looking at them combined together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 This thread is a nit-picker's paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 June, 2012 Share Posted 27 June, 2012 I did. And I still think you're wrong when you stated that "we have the advantage". I can think of many other PL Cat 1 clubs who I consider would have the advantage over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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