Stanley Saint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 I hope we sign some of those 'ghost players' in the pictures. They'll be really hard to mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 That isn't that big really compared against clubs they were competing against at the top when you consider the income from merely being in the Premier League. Deviation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 (edited) Similar to QPR last summer we could be sold after promotion? There is no real evidence in the public domain of that at all. The club would be at its most valuable. It would be more valuable established in the top flight rather than the summer period between promotion and its first season back in the top flight. The liebherr would see a decent return on investment. What makes you think the Liebherr's are in this for financial reward? There are easier less risky ways they could invest that in football. Why would they sell when it goes against the wishes of their late husband/father who wanted to see Saints competing in the Premier League. This is a long term project for Liebherr's/Cortese, along with Staplewood Cortese has also talked of their plans for expanding St Mary's or relocating they wouldn't have bothered with that if they were planning to leave 3 years after taking over. Everyones happy Why would those connected to Southampton and their fans be happy if the Liebherr's/Cortese left? Why would you be happy? Edited 24 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 That isn't that big really compared against clubs they were competing against at the top when you consider the income from merely being in the Premier League. In 08/9 Villa finished 6th and spent £48m Arsenal finished 4th and spent £15m Everton finished 5th and spent £17m Fulham finished 7th and spent 18m Villa spent more than liverpool (2nd) and chelsea (3rd) that season too......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Deviation No it isn't, was very relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 In 08/9 Villa finished 6th and spent £48m Arsenal finished 4th and spent £15m Everton finished 5th and spent £17m Fulham finished 7th and spent 18m Villa spent more than liverpool (2nd) and chelsea (3rd) that season too......... Who did they buy for that £48m? Who did they sell? What was their net spend in that period of 3 to 5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Who did they buy for that £48m? Who did they sell? What was their net spend in that period of 3 to 5 years? http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/aston-villa-transfers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 (edited) http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/aston-villa-transfers.html Ahhhh so as I expected, their net spend was actually a lot lower than the figures you stated. Not sure how that helps your argument... Edited 24 March, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Argh so as I expected, their net spend was actually a lot lower than the figures you stated. Not sure how that helps your argument... That doesn't take into account the wages these players would be earning though, they spent a fair wedge it's a fact Mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Argh so as I expected, their net spend was actually a lot lower than the figures you stated. Not sure how that helps your argument... 08/9 net spend was £45m finished 6th Villas net spend was higher than man u, liverpool, chelsea, arsenal and everton who all finished above them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 That doesn't take into account the wages these players would be earning though, they spent a fair wedge it's a fact Mat. I'm sure they did, but whose to say Saints can't spend big on wages and transfers? They are spending alot at the moment on wages in comparison with other Championship clubs and even some Premier League clubs when you take into account they are currently without Premier League TV money and sources of income. Saints had a £12m wage bill in its first season in League One funded by the Liebherr's, that is huge when you bear in mind it isn't subsidised by Premier League income. Also that first season saw Saints as a League One club as the 11th highest net spenders on transfers in English football, again whilst not subsided by a Premier League income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 That isn't that big really compared against clubs they were competing against at the top when you consider the income from merely being in the Premier League. You could run Pompey with an outlook like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Some interesting points made on here, however, regarding the rule changes I think that cortese sees the 'homegrown' player rule as an opportunity for us to gain some ground on the top sides. If we can get ahead of the game and build a young team of lads from the academy supplemented with some good value signings such as hoiveld we could do better than our finances suggest. Lallana and Morgan count as academy products already. The academy will be vital in attracting good young talent to the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Well said. Just like Rupert eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalsaint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 You might be missing my point. I agree with pretty much all of your post. My original question was (maybe not well worded) how much do you think (obviously a rough estimate, based on various assumptions) we'd need to spend to regularly compete towards the top of the table and not 'mid-table'? And would NC etc sanction such spending? There is a big difference from sensible spending on quality, long-term infrastructure and speculating on player purchases to compete at the top of the Prem. I see your point. I suppose the hope is that we'd spend enough to make us reasonably competitive amongst the also-rans, although that will probably lead to mid-table and the odd cup run. The only reason I'd think that is we seem to have invested in more than we'd need to if we simply wanted to bounce between the Premier League and Championship, although probably a large part of that is more in hope than anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 South Today next week. Keep your eyes peeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 24 March, 2012 Share Posted 24 March, 2012 Hopefully it is finally dawning on the Cortese bashers, who desperately take every perceived 'opportunity' to have pitiful swipes, what an amazing job he is doing in rebuilding our club! I would have been grateful to see a road back to where we fell from but I genuinely feel this isn't going to be enough for Cortese. The man is on a mission, may God bless his chairmanship for many more healthy years yet to come... Cortese has taken us further than we could have hoped in such a short time, in great style . However, not everything is perfect Cortese does have a habit of letting the club appear not to be be all that bothered about the fans who actually ARE paying most of the wages etc. I would like to see that change. in particular ticketing allocation and sales procedures need to be radically improved. It really is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 Aston Villa 2009/10 6th 2008/09 6th 2007/08 6th They didn't spend a huge amount considering the TV income and other Premier League revenue streams they got. Good management from O'Neil and sound infrastructure took them a long way. Aston Villa average attendance in 2011/12 = 34,137 which is barely more than Saints had at St Mary's between 2001 and 2005 for mid table finishes in a 32k stadium. That isn't that big really compared against clubs they were competing against at the top when you consider the income from merely being in the Premier League. Who did they buy for that £48m? Who did they sell? What was their net spend in that period of 3 to 5 years? I'm sure they did, but whose to say Saints can't spend big on wages and transfers? They are spending alot at the moment on wages in comparison with other Championship clubs and even some Premier League clubs when you take into account they are currently without Premier League TV money and sources of income. Saints had a £12m wage bill in its first season in League One funded by the Liebherr's, that is huge when you bear in mind it isn't subsidised by Premier League income. Also that first season saw Saints as a League One club as the 11th highest net spenders on transfers in English football, again whilst not subsided by a Premier League income. So in the 3 years you talk about Aston Villa had a net spend over over £60m. More than all of the teams that finished above them. Yet inspite of this and 3 consecutive 6th placed finishes they still lost their best players when bigger clubs knocked on thier door and because of this also lost their manager because he wasn't given MORE money to break into the top 4. So did they spend big or not? Compared to those around them it seems they did, but even £60m net wasn't enough to finish higher than 6th. As for your final point, you need to make your mind up. I thought you said we can get to the top 6 without spending big, we can do it by our academy and training ground. Yet again your arguement that we are all set for the champions league once our academy players hit 20 years old stumbles yet again. You might well be able to take Eastleigh from the Conference South to the champion league on Championship Manager but real football is a little more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 I think people are going way OTT about the academy I'm getting the impression some are expecting 5-6 players or so to be in our first team in 3-5 years time never ever going to happen if we produce another bale and OxO and actually keep one of them, we would have done well..... also, we will also sell one or two of these startlets...it is what happens and people won't like to here it, it is another way of generating decent sums of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 I think people are going way OTT about the academy I'm getting the impression some are expecting 5-6 players or so to be in our first team in 3-5 years time never ever going to happen The people in this case are those from the club. That's their target - at least half the team coming from the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 Saints have an owner whose family business philosophy is not to accrue any external debt, have ambitions of upper Premier League finishes and have a net worth far beyond that of Randy Lerner as resources to meet those ambitions. I wouldn't dimiss Saints in the top 6 quite as quickly as Turkish and Sour Mash do. Even Bolton finished in the top 6 as recently as 2005. Those of us (older fans) who recall that for the majority of the 27 seasons that we were in the top flight, we finished below half way in that division. It was, admittedly, a bit too close for comfort for many of those seasons, and the squads could have been better had big money been available, but the Liebherrs are hardly likely to encounter a big debt problem with the (rumoured) £90 million income which Premiership clubs are given nowadays, and a man like Nicola Cortese holding the purse strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 The people in this case are those from the club. That's their target - at least half the team coming from the academy. I'm sure it is the target for many teams...it just don't happen unless you are arsenal or man utd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 Similar to QPR last summer we could be sold after promotion? The club would be at its most valuble, NC may or may not stay under the new owners - he could move on with an even better reputation, The liebherr would see a decent return on investment....... Everyones happy Unlikely! why invest in a training ground just prior to selling (this is not good business sense). An investment in a great training ground is looking at much longer term returns and its costs are unlikely to be recovered in a quick sale as the outcome of the investment remains uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 25 March, 2012 Share Posted 25 March, 2012 South Today next week. Keep your eyes peeled. Why? What is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 26 March, 2012 Share Posted 26 March, 2012 I'm sure they did, but whose to say Saints can't spend big on wages and transfers? They are spending alot at the moment on wages in comparison with other Championship clubs and even some Premier League clubs when you take into account they are currently without Premier League TV money and sources of income. Saints had a £12m wage bill in its first season in League One funded by the Liebherr's, that is huge when you bear in mind it isn't subsidised by Premier League income. Also that first season saw Saints as a League One club as the 11th highest net spenders on transfers in English football, again whilst not subsided by a Premier League income. Villa. Massive debt. http://astonvilla-views.com/2012/03/02/villa-technically-insolvent-would-cost-175m-to-buy-avfc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 (edited) @jordansibley: Busy morning at Staplewood showcasing the plans for the new training ground as the bulldozers rolled in. #saintsfc http://t.co/o1HrIO82 Edited 28 March, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 I'm sure it is the target for many teams...it just don't happen unless you are arsenal or man utd ....or Saints. Time to adopt a different mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK8267 Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 i was thinking excatly the same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 What is lallana doing driving the digger! Was he told to play in the hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Jeans with a suit jacket is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 What is lallana doing driving the digger! Getting his preparation in for demolishing Pompey next weekend! Actually, when we've finished with it we should lend it to Chinny ready to raze Fratton rust sheds for that supermarket Ho is always telling us about on the Pompey Takeover Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalsaint Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 They're chinos. If only they were red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 I'm sure it is the target for many teams...it just don't happen unless you are arsenal or man utd But what effort are they putting into achieving it? There's no point having a target and doing nothing to increase the likelihood of it happening. This is a small step and it will be interesting to see what other actions are taken to help achieve the target, otherwise yes, players will leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 But what effort are they putting into achieving it? There's no point having a target and doing nothing to increase the likelihood of it happening. This is a small step and it will be interesting to see what other actions are taken to help achieve the target, otherwise yes, players will leave. the pressure for instant results....you only have too look at around the time when we lost to leicester at home....we were DOOMED..... other teams have fantastic academies too..just that the need for instant results takes over Villa have a cracking academy..look at them now they have blooded a few...their fans cant wait for the manager to leave, constantly booing the team as they are not top 10 etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 What is lallana doing driving the digger! I can reveal that once the photo was taken everyone turned towards Lallana as he accidentally hit a button that caused it to drop down on the roof. They was planning to leave that part until last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 I think the Sky cameras may also be there as a cameraman from Sky has posted another photo of it on Twitter. Some footage maybe shown on SSN tonight? @SiCamHD Work begins on Southamptons new training ground #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 What is lallana doing driving the digger! He digs to the left, he digs to the rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhttt............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 He digs to the left, he digs to the rrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhttt............ That Adam Lallana makes the building look shiiiteeeee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 the pressure for instant results....you only have too look at around the time when we lost to leicester at home....we were DOOMED..... other teams have fantastic academies too..just that the need for instant results takes over Villa have a cracking academy..look at them now they have blooded a few...their fans cant wait for the manager to leave, constantly booing the team as they are not top 10 etc etc So what pressure are Saints under now? There is a clear strategy with the management structure, player recruitment, academy upgrade and probably a few other things either not seen or yet to be done to maximise potential return (and no I'm saying it's going to work). If it's just the case of an academy producing prospects to go in the first team, then I wouldn't expect much in return. PS. The villa fans dislike Mcleish, some would prefer relegation than to keep him and his brand of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 So what pressure are Saints under now? There is a clear strategy with the management structure, player recruitment, academy upgrade and probably a few other things either not seen or yet to be done to maximise potential return (and no I'm saying it's going to work). If it's just the case of an academy producing prospects to go in the first team, then I wouldn't expect much in return. PS. The villa fans dislike Mcleish, some would prefer relegation than to keep him and his brand of football. loads...hence why we signed sharp AND lee...why not just sign one and promote the best striker from the development squad..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 @jordansibley: Busy morning at Staplewood showcasing the plans for the new training ground as the bulldozers rolled in. #saintsfc http://t.co/o1HrIO82 Does anyone know who the geezers in the photo are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Does anyone know who the geezers in the photo are? From left to right. Les Reed, Nicola Cortese, I don't know but probably someone from Leadbitter the contractor, Adam Lallana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suntouched Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Brendan McGlinchey on far right - Operations Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 OK thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Confirmed, Sky have been at the training ground today to see the new devlopment. Will be a bit on SSN shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 What is lallana doing driving the digger! Dunno but the work shy so and so has posted a pic on twitter of him, Cork and Fox enjoying an ice cream on Bournemouth sea front this afternoon so Staplewood is gonna take ages if he keeps on doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 loads...hence why we signed sharp AND lee...why not just sign one and promote the best striker from the development squad..? The strategy of academy to first team is only two years in the making I think your talking about something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Coming up next on SSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Are the club crest hard hats available in the club shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 28 March, 2012 Share Posted 28 March, 2012 Confirmed, Sky have been at the training ground today to see the new devlopment. Will be a bit on SSN shortly. Saw Les Reed on there earlier, but that was re: FA technical director search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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