dune Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 We're so lucky to have this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 How long did you spend with Nigel Adkins? Talk about "Taking the positives" & "Controlling the controllable's" Are you hoping to be invited for a job interview as er... Head of PR? Nicely put 'though but none of it "wins a game of football" Luckily we aren't too bad at doing that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadpanmatt Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 How did such a positive thread end up becoming so negative? Cheer up guys, these are the good times! Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 How did such a positive thread end up becoming so negative? Cheer up guys, these are the good times! Sheesh. Relax, it's sarcasm more then anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 So how much has it 'cost' to put the club (nearly) back in the Premiership? I can remember when we stood on the brink and I said that it would take '50 million' to put us back in the Prem. I was shouted down by those that said it could be done for 'nothing' - just buy 'free' transfers (what are they?), get a decent manager (that's free isn't it?), and rebuild on a break-even basis. No arguing that we are nearly there but what has it all cost? To buy the club, to pay off the debt, to consistently recruit and pay the best players available, to have those players on performance-related long-term contracts, to have two of the best managers available, to employ the levels of off-field sports science that we do, to rebuild the training facilities and academy to Premier League standard, to maintain a Premier League stadium and so it goes on. On the income side we have been fortunate to have strong crowds paying decent prices, lots of TV appearances, good cup draws, and a cup run to a Wembley final. So, what has it cost to take Saints from tyre-kicking, monkey-petting chancers to a (hopefully) sustainable PL club? Fortunately we have accomplished it in 3 years, rather than 5, but I'd still like to think it has cost nearer to £50m than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 (edited) So how much has it 'cost' to put the club (nearly) back in the Premiership? I can remember when we stood on the brink and I said that it would take '50 million' to put us back in the Prem. I was shouted down by those that said it could be done for 'nothing' - just buy 'free' transfers (what are they?), get a decent manager (that's free isn't it?), and rebuild on a break-even basis. No arguing that we are nearly there but what has it all cost? To buy the club, to pay off the debt, to consistently recruit and pay the best players available, to have those players on performance-related long-term contracts, to have two of the best managers available, to employ the levels of off-field sports science that we do, to rebuild the training facilities and academy to Premier League standard, to maintain a Premier League stadium and so it goes on. On the income side we have been fortunate to have strong crowds paying decent prices, lots of TV appearances, good cup draws, and a cup run to a Wembley final. So, what has it cost to take Saints from tyre-kicking, monkey-petting chancers to a (hopefully) sustainable PL club? Fortunately we have accomplished it in 3 years, rather than 5, but I'd still like to think it has cost nearer to £50m than nothing. All in, I reckon 50 million pounds of spend. Outgoing: Assuming 20 players on 10k a week for the last three years, a club purchase price of 25 million, And player purchases of 6 million. Incoming: Crowds of 15k per week over 25 games per season paying 15 quid each and player sales of 12 million. Really basic maths. Rough estimate. (These are the only variables i've worked from.) Edited 22 March, 2012 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 All in, I reckon 50 million pounds of spend. Outgoing: Assuming 20 players on 10k a week for the last three years, a club purchase price of 25 million, And player purchases of 6 million. Incoming: Crowds of 15k per week over 25 games per season paying 15 quid each and player sales of 12 million. Really basic maths. Rough estimate. (These are the only variables i've worked from.) So has it cost nearer to £50m or nearer to 'nothing'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 So has it cost nearer to £50m or nearer to 'nothing'? On the basis of my straw maths. 50 million in costs after outgoings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Club 'purchase price was around 12 mil - not 25 mil (the cost of paying off Aviva and Barclays) surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 While the Liebherrs are happy to invest in us, we're in damn good shape. If they ever decide to sell us, then we'll have to hold our breath and hope we get a decent owner/chairman in place. Hopefully with our success at present and our imminent promotion (!), they won't want to quit anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsterdam Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 You couldn't see it, cos you were in it! You may be right - "We're the Northam, we're the Northam, we're the Northam over here"... And the boil in the bag burgers? Surely better than what's currently marketed as "food"... Love it that my only complaint about my beloved team is the crap refreshments... Actually wanted to raise a serious point; has anyone noticed how quiet Lord NC has been recently? At the start of this "project" he was endlessly quoted and analysed, but, as we've become more and more successful (and closer to his vision) then he's backed off and let NA, SRL, AL etc hog the limelight - a truly great leader, IMHO... I was so happy (relieved?) when Mr Liebherr and team took us over and gave us stability that I was a bit concerned/skeptical about Cortese's "5 Year Plan" of being back in the prem... Without tempting Fate, now we're so close, I have to eat humble pie, and apologise for my lack of faith... I think NC is an astonishingly good chairman and we're so lucky to have him. With love, Mrs Cortese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Loans from parent companies to subs are still loans in the taxman's eyes unfortunately, the family has 3 choices, write off the loan in which case we still have to pay CGT on the full amount of the loan, (30% for you lot for companies I think so only 3million but still not exactly "free") claim some of it or sell the club and transfer the debt (reducing their fee for the club.) The debt is still there guys it's just a lot more friendly than a bank loan. Yep (is it 30% now though?). And I believe that is the arrangement here. But the enforcement of said loan is a lot less harsh (for want of a better word) in these instances than in the bank loan situation was ultimately my point. At the end of the day until they start screaming for that money because they are short of a bob or two (they aren't) that debt will only become an issue should the family wish to sell. So the club I guess you could argue are in debt as a single entity but as part of the group structure they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Ridiculous thread. The perfect club is one that wins loads of trophies and has had sustained success over a long period of time. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about. We've had none of that... ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Yes ......for now , i'm an SFC supporter since a wee lad however the big sigh of relief and the largest smile on my face will come when it's 100% sure that we've been promoted ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 I said a while ago that we went into admin and got bought at a very good time - we can rebuild in a sustainble way with the backdrop of the financial meltdown at other clubs reinforcing what we're doing. We will be well placed with all the rules coming into place regarding club finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinR Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 We need to win some trophies/ be sustained in the prem to be even close to perfect. The other thing that stands out for me, as an area for development, is the "pathway" for younger players to break through to the first team. Nige has spoken about its importance (for their development, attracting the best young players to our club and to improve our sustainability) but I don't see any real evidence of a significant pathway. I'm not sure cup games are enough (as that might only mean 2 games a year). Maybe there should be one space on the bench earmarked for a "development" player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Great thing I see is how the bad years/admin experience has changed most fans view the whole issue of spend and investment - Unlike thos down the road, its pretty clear to me that as a fan base we have learned some lessons, and respect the stable building, the measureed investmenta dn importantly appreciate the value that investing in infrastructure has over spunking every penny (earned or from any dodgy source) on mad attempt to gain promotion/avoid relegation/cup runs etc. Sure there will onlt be so long you can be 'building' for the future, eventually you want that future, but right now, despite the drama/excitement thats unfolding around promotion (and quite right to), the real benefit of the admin and Markus' takeover followed by NCs trategy has seen success on the WITH a unified and patient fan base - no surprize to me that the squad looks so unified and happy. SFC is a great place to be right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 We need to win some trophies/ be sustained in the prem to be even close to perfect. The other thing that stands out for me, as an area for development, is the "pathway" for younger players to break through to the first team. Nige has spoken about its importance (for their development, attracting the best young players to our club and to improve our sustainability) but I don't see any real evidence of a significant pathway. I'm not sure cup games are enough (as that might only mean 2 games a year). Maybe there should be one space on the bench earmarked for a "development" player? We may see some more youth if we are promoted early.... you may get all your wishes at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 Some snippets based on gossip/hearsay. NC has indicated that he would not entertain an approach to buy the club that was "Leveraged" ie Hicks & Gilett/Rangers style damned if I can recall when but may have been teh Solent Interview. Rumours persist of an approach that attempted just this by the muppets who ended up at Nottarf being rejected out of hand. FC's post on the difference between Debt & Equity was spot on. IF The Liebherr family want their money back THEN the club can be sold anything over the 20mil is a profit. The KEY then is what does the new buyer do with his accounting. Again the same will apply it is either described as a "loan" or converted into pieces of paper - ie shares ie equity. Chelsea & Citeh will bring their Operating Costs closer to their income and the "loans" by their benefactors will be converted to - equity - this brings them in line with UEFA FPP regulations. There is a technical difference between a loan and a share that the accounting Department of TSW PST can explain. But in one you get your money back from the club, in the other somebody else gives you money How much to establish in the PL? A SIMPE equation - 100 mil in "Bank Gurantees" The maths 60mil TV money & 40 mil of Parachute payments. That cash is not given in "one lump" so there MAY be times (Transfer Window in Year One) where more of that is paid out than has been earnt at that time - So the owner MAY need to secure a Cash Flow management plan (eg 60 mil over 6 months of the season = 10mil a month, You want to spend 25 mil on players you need a "bank loan" OR an "HP Deal" on the player) So you go up you are Guaranteed 100 mil spread over 5 years. Any PROFESSIONALLY RUN CLUB can PLAN their cash flow based on that, BUT because it will not be a lump sum, the owner MAY have to stump up in the Transfer Window To get to "Challenge for CL Place" you would be looking to find a way to secure around 200 mil of Investment into the club (just based on some maths and comparsions) Obviously, a CL Club is worth - around 150/200mil so the value of the equity can equal the value of the club. All of which is great. But as SLH PLC found out. Running the damned thing is NOT as easy as that all makes out. One mistake and you are dead. (Wolves) Two mistakes you are WHU Ten Mistakes you are Rupert 100 Mistakes and you are a laughing stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 100 mistakes you're Pompey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suntouched Posted 23 March, 2012 Share Posted 23 March, 2012 i'm trying not to be biased here but let's consider it for a moment. 1) a chairmen who knows what he's doing and gets on with people . lol!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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