maddog Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 To be honest i feel the biggest problem facing this country is the benefit system and people who feel they dont need to work. Why dont we have a massive overhaul of the whole system? I wish someone would step up and have the guts to do it! Dont allow people to live of benefits, make them available for a limited time or just to pay to live and not give enough to but itesm such as cigs or booze? To be honest the whole system is supposed to be there as a fall back if you need it and not a way of life. Its time to get tough on these people who feel they dont need to work!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Source? The papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 To be honest i feel the biggest problem facing this country is the benefit system and people who feel they dont need to work. Why dont we have a massive overhaul of the whole system? I wish someone would step up and have the guts to do it! Dont allow people to live of benefits, make them available for a limited time or just to pay to live and not give enough to but itesm such as cigs or booze? To be honest the whole system is supposed to be there as a fall back if you need it and not a way of life. Its time to get tough on these people who feel they dont need to work!? It is changing, I see the evidence every day and the work shy aren't happy about it. Left, right or centre, I think it drives all working folk nuts that the workshy feel it's their right to scrounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 What changes do you see? Just out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 It is changing, I see the evidence every day and the work shy aren't happy about it. Left, right or centre, I think it drives all working folk nuts that the workshy feel it's their right to scrounge. I know of people on job seekers allowance and it is a right pain for them now. It's no longer just a case of signing on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Hmm but there are families who see it as a way of life. Generations of the same family who have never and will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Source? The Today Programme, this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I think me and mine have done OK we don't smoke so no loss there, increase in the income tax personal allowance is good, petrol is a bit of bugger it will cost me another 15p a week to fill up my scooter (a bit more for the wifes car) and we don't earn enough to lose child allowance. No complaints from me and I'm sure others must be in the same postion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Hmm but there are families who see it as a way of life. Generations of the same family who have never and will not work. That's deffo changing. They are being targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I know of people on job seekers allowance and it is a right pain for them now. It's no longer just a case of signing on. A recurring problem is that those who are genuinely looking for work, of who there are plenty, are being treated in the same way as the workshy bastards by some JCPs. Other JCPs are targeting the workshy and supporting the jobseekers. Needs a bit more joined up thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Ok, perhaps raising it to 75% in one fowl swoop was a little hopeful on my part. I guess we need to introduce 'fairness' in stages. On reflection, i think they should have raised it to 55% this time around and then 5% per year until the end of this parliament. Surely this is the best way to squeeze more than 27% of the country's tax receipts from the top 1% of earners? I am in favour of a flat tax, trousers. All income taxed at the same rate. Special exemptions for focus areas of the economy ( such as solving the energy crisis, etc ). Much simpler, much fairer, much easier to sell and let's face it, same end result. The government takes a cut out of all of us anyway. Just be upfront about it, implement systems to support it and get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 A recurring problem is that those who are genuinely looking for work, of who there are plenty, are being treated in the same way as the workshy bastards by some JCPs. Other JCPs are targeting the workshy and supporting the jobseekers. Needs a bit more joined up thinking. JobCentre Plus doesn't give a crap about finding you work unless you are on benefits. You can get free training on benefits. No such help for the likes of Ms pap who hasn't taken any money out of the system save the child benefit we receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 JobCentre Plus doesn't give a crap about finding you work unless you are on benefits. You can get free training on benefits. No such help for the likes of Ms pap who hasn't taken any money out of the system save the child benefit we receive. JCP staff are assessed by the numbers they get to sign off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 The papers. No further questions your honour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I am in favour of a flat tax, trousers. All income taxed at the same rate. Special exemptions for focus areas of the economy ( such as solving the energy crisis, etc ). Much simpler, much fairer, much easier to sell and let's face it, same end result. The government takes a cut out of all of us anyway. Just be upfront about it, implement systems to support it and get it done. Agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Bad headlines hitting granny's pensions while giving rich middle class people child benefit and the richest in our country a 5 p taxcut stinks at this hard time. When the country's finances improve their might be a case to cut the top rate.some good things on getting lower paid taxpayers out of tax . Not impressed by yesterday's budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 When the country's finances improve their might be a case to cut the top rate Isn't the counter argument to that viewpoint equally valid? i.e. when the country's finances are bouyant raise the high end tax rate to get a greater share of the hay that the wealthy are raking in? I think it's known in the trade as "fixing the roof while the sun is shining".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Isn't the counter argument to that viewpoint equally valid? i.e. when the country's finances are bouyant raise the high end tax rate to get a greater share of the hay that the wealthy are raking in? I think it's known in the trade as "fixing the roof while the sun is shining"....yes you could be right but the coalitions slogan we are all in this together and I think Osborne has played the politics badly giving papers reaction and the general public and given the Labour party amassive stick to potray the tries has the party of the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 yes you could be right but the coalitions slogan we are all in this together and I think Osborne has played the politics badly giving papers reaction and the general public and given the Labour party amassive stick to potray the tries has the party of the rich. I'm pretty sure Osbourne and Cameron would have foreseen the media reaction to adjusting the top end tax rate to 5% above what labour maintained it at for 10+ years, but an election is still a relatively long way off and the British public have short memories (when it suits them). Yes, it's a gamble but as long as there are a few of the usual political sweeteners nearer the time of the election the papers will start fawning in the direction that best suits their circulation figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Corky is right about VAT. the 20% is a killer. We've just had an extra bathroom fitted and that was done as a "foreigner" thus saving £££. Having the main bathroom done in the same way. Just means HMG are dipping out on revenue as people revert to a cash/off the books, economy. So you deliberately set out to defraud HMRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 So you deliberately set out to defraud HMRC? Yeah, but he'll give them back 4p in the £1 when they finally catch up with him. Works every time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 So you deliberately set out to defraud HMRC? In a heartbeat. I've adopted the pompey approach to tax since the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Isn't the counter argument to that viewpoint equally valid? i.e. when the country's finances are bouyant raise the high end tax rate to get a greater share of the hay that the wealthy are raking in? I think it's known in the trade as "fixing the roof while the sun is shining".... No, no, no. You borrow even more during the good times because they'll never end. That's the Labour way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 JobCentre Plus doesn't give a crap about finding you work unless you are on benefits. You can get free training on benefits. No such help for the likes of Ms pap who hasn't taken any money out of the system save the child benefit we receive. I thought it was generally seen as a sensible policy to concentrate resources into getting long term unemployed off benefits and into work. Wasn't that known as the New Deal - one of Labour's flagships (which i believe fell flat on its arse)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 JobCentre Plus doesn't give a crap about finding you work unless you are on benefits. You can get free training on benefits. No such help for the likes of Ms pap who hasn't taken any money out of the system save the child benefit we receive. Have you tried private employment agencies like Manpower Pap? Normally got a good supply of humdrum short term jobs (tide you financially over and get her back into being seen as 'employed' when applying for better jobs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Keep up pap me old' mucka....that pant wetting montage was posted on page 1 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I thought it was generally seen as a sensible policy to concentrate resources into getting long term unemployed off benefits and into work. Wasn't that known as the New Deal - one of Labour's flagships (which i believe fell flat on its arse)? I can certainly see the sense, but in practice, it has a real effect on certain groups of people - especially mothers looking to return to work. If I upped and left Ms pap tomoz, she'd get all those benefits. However, because I have been the sole breadwinner and taxpayer, we don't get that option. I know that on paper, it makes sense to push people on benefits back into the workplace. I just feel that opportunities like training are wasted on those who do not really want to work, when there are plenty of people crying out to make a positive difference in their lives and the hypothetical workplace which seems to be getting farther away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Keep up pap me old' mucka....that pant wetting montage was posted on page 1 :-) Sorry trousers. It is nice to see it again though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Have you tried private employment agencies like Manpower Pap? Normally got a good supply of humdrum short term jobs (tide you financially over and get her back into being seen as 'employed' when applying for better jobs). Actually, no - but we've just looked. Could be a few things there that would interest her, and it's a good shout. The financial boost would of course, be welcome - but mostly, Ms pap just wants to get back out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Glad to see the 50p rate of tax coming down. I agree that everyone should pay the same rate of income tax by %. It's not the wealthy's fault they are more intelligent/ harder working/ willing to take calculated gambles like starting their own business, I fundamentaly disagree that they pay more in every £ than you or I, it' not fair. I'm not a banker or a successful entrepreneur, I'm not intelligent enough or willing to work the life killing hours required to do so. However I don't think I'm any better than them so why should I pay less tax? It's completely unfair. Glad fags went up and booze stayed the same. Hate the cost of petrol but I'll just ride my bike more. The increase in non taxable earnins is great for those on lower incomes. The elderly have had it easy over their lives - benefitting from house price rises, jobs for life, great benefits (free bus passes, TV licences, winter fuel etc). Every government in my lifetime has sucked up to them, I'm glad the Tories are actually getting them to chip in with the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Glad to see the 50p rate of tax coming down. I agree that everyone should pay the same rate of income tax by %. It's not the wealthy's fault they are more intelligent/ harder working/ willing to take calculated gambles like starting their own business, I fundamentaly disagree that they pay more in every £ than you or I, it' not fair. I'm not a banker or a successful entrepreneur, I'm not intelligent enough or willing to work the life killing hours required to do so. However I don't think I'm any better than them so why should I pay less tax? It's completely unfair. Glad fags went up and booze stayed the same. Hate the cost of petrol but I'll just ride my bike more. The increase in non taxable earnins is great for those on lower incomes. The elderly have had it easy over their lives - benefitting from house price rises, jobs for life, great benefits (free bus passes, TV licences, winter fuel etc). Every government in my lifetime has sucked up to them, I'm glad the Tories are actually getting them to chip in with the rest of us. What about people born into wealth? Who have all the opportunities? A progressive tax system and fair welfare state is a good way of equalising some of the unfairness capitalism creates. The rich should contribute more, I'm not saying ransack them, but they should contribute more. Oh, and on old people, I sort of agree with you. This current generation are in a very good position and enjoy tonnes of benefits because of the so called grey vote. This is while young people get continuously shat upon by successive governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 What about people born into wealth? Who have all the opportunities? A progressive tax system and fair welfare state is a good way of equalising some of the unfairness capitalism creates. The rich should contribute more, I'm not saying ransack them, but they should contribute more. don't they already by paying more % where is the threshold...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 don't they already by paying more % where is the threshold...? I assume they do. Jackanory was arguing for a flat rate of income tax across all wealth because if you earn more you are more 'intelligent and hard working' or some rubbish like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 don't they already by paying more % where is the threshold...? Not necessarily. If you're rich enough so that you don't have to work, you're not going to be paying income tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Not necessarily. If you're rich enough so that you don't have to work, you're not going to be paying income tax. what about the stuff they buy...the people they employ, I'm sure they get taxed enough through other means after all, it all goes to one big pot, right..? what if you won the lottery, say £1m...would you want to lose 50% of that to tax...? after all, you won't have to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Glad to see the 50p rate of tax coming down. I agree that everyone should pay the same rate of income tax by %. It's not the wealthy's fault they are more intelligent/ harder working/ willing to take calculated gambles like starting their own business, I fundamentaly disagree that they pay more in every £ than you or I, it' not fair. I'm not a banker or a successful entrepreneur, I'm not intelligent enough or willing to work the life killing hours required to do so. However I don't think I'm any better than them so why should I pay less tax? It's completely unfair. Glad fags went up and booze stayed the same. Hate the cost of petrol but I'll just ride my bike more. The increase in non taxable earnins is great for those on lower incomes. The elderly have had it easy over their lives - benefitting from house price rises, jobs for life, great benefits (free bus passes, TV licences, winter fuel etc). Every government in my lifetime has sucked up to them, I'm glad the Tories are actually getting them to chip in with the rest of us. Look where their hard work and calculated gambles got us. Great trolling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 what about the stuff they buy...the people they employ, I'm sure they get taxed enough through other means after all, it all goes to one big pot, right..? what if you won the lottery, say £1m...would you want to lose 50% of that to tax...? after all, you won't have to work Lottery winnings aren't taxed - http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/serviceguide.ftl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 what about the stuff they buy...the people they employ, I'm sure they get taxed enough through other means after all, it all goes to one big pot, right..? what if you won the lottery, say £1m...would you want to lose 50% of that to tax...? after all, you won't have to work By that logic DD it would make sense for the Government to give 100,000 people £5m each and the tax they paid, plus the employment they created would be enough to pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 By that logic DD it would make sense for the Government to give 100,000 people £5m each and the tax they paid, plus the employment they created would be enough to pay the bills. I would not say no...but we are where we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 Lottery winnings aren't taxed - http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/serviceguide.ftl I know...bit unfair though isn't it, I mean, getting enough money never to work again....should be given to the welfare system IMO...50% of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I know...bit unfair though isn't it, I mean, getting enough money never to work again....should be given to the welfare system IMO...50% of it I dunno if a million is enough to never work again. Perhaps if invested in the right places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I dunno if a million is enough to never work again. Perhaps if invested in the right places. When you're old enough to pay taxes your views will be welcome, but until then please leave these discussions to people who know what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 When you're old enough to pay taxes your views will be welcome, but until then please leave these discussions to people who know what they're talking about. I work and pay tax thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I work and pay tax thanks. I don't believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I dunno if a million is enough to never work again. Perhaps if invested in the right places. of course it is..... if you won £2m on the lottery, would your morals see fit to give 50% of it to the government...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 of course it is..... If you were 20, I doubt it would be unless invested in the right places. Once you get a house and what not... depends how you want to live I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 March, 2012 what about the stuff they buy...the people they employ, I'm sure they get taxed enough through other means after all, it all goes to one big pot, right..? what if you won the lottery, say £1m...would you want to lose 50% of that to tax...? after all, you won't have to work If you're not working, then the only people you would employ would be people to provide a personal service. The only tax you'd need to pay would be the indirect taxes we all get to pay, and they would pay this at the same rate as everyone else. Well, theoretically - at least. As we've seen before, there are plenty of dodges available to those at the top. It's one of the reasons why I like the idea of tax on all income. Doesn't matter if you work or not, then. As soon as non-working playboys spend their money somewhere else, part of that goes to the Government (provided of course, it is spent internally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 No, no, no. You borrow even more during the good times because they'll never end. That's the Labour way. All the stuff the Torys are bringing in during this tough times, should have been done by Labour during the "boom" years. Welfare cap, Family benefit taken off the rich, icreasing the rate we start paying tax, a push to get people off the sick and back into work,and more importantly stopping people's benefit for those who refuse to work. There were jobs about, I had to employ Polish to do my minimum wage jobs. There are sections of our society that refuse to work and there are sections who think that we owe them a living. There are young people who seem to think that hard menial work is beneath them, that unless they are given the job that they want, they will not work.Sir Terry Leahy used to stack shelves in Tesco, but that's now beneath some of the Xfactor generation. Labour should have sorted these people out when there were jobs available, but that's just not the Labour way. The pattern of my working life has always been the same. Labour spend too much and run out of money, the Tories clear up the mess, becoming unpopular in the process.From the response to every money saving measure, and their continued call for "investment" it appears the party are still stuck in their ways and the circle will continue for our next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 March, 2012 Share Posted 22 March, 2012 I don't believe you. Well, I do. I'm on a gap year. What do you think I am doing with my time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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