Council Tenants offered £75K by government.

[Jonnyboy]

Bloke at work was crowing today about how he was going to buy his 2 bed council house and sell it on in 5 years time and make £75K free.

 

Apparently the tories are offering a 35% or more discount (up to £75K) on the "rebooted" right to buy scheme.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/12/council-tenants-discount-right-buy

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4186170/75k-discount-if-you-buy-your-council-house.html

 

This seems a bit unfair to me, partly as many people are working/have worked their ar*es off trying to save up a decent deposit whilst paying private landlords excessive rents.

 

Why should government funds be spent on trying to boost up house prices again when it would be better spent on affordable social housing cooperatives etc or regulating excessive private rents?

 

They say they will build more houses from the revenue raised from sales. Yeah right.

 

Thoughts?

Edited 14 March, 2012 by Jonnyboy

[Hatch]

I don't understand how you can buy your own council house.

How do people in council houses have any money to buy a house.

And if they have money they should be kicked out of the house and made to go private.

[bridge too far]

The right-to-buy scheme introduced in the 1980s has been criticised for the following reasons:

 

 

• Speculating investors were able to buy up council properties through deferred transaction agreements, hastening the rise in property costs;
  
• Commercially and socially valuable council assets being sold at below their market value or replacement cost;
  
• The remaining stock of council housing was concentrated in undesirable areas with little employment opportunity, further isolating and stigmatising the tenants.
  

At this time, local councils had to use the money from sales to reduce their debts rather than reinvesting the money into new housing. This will cause real problems particularly in London where even Housing Associations are now struggling to find the wherewithall to build new housing because they're not getting the income from current properties because of the cap on housing benefit.

[Jonnyboy]

I don't understand how you can buy your own council house.

How do people in council houses have any money to buy a house.

And if they have money they should be kicked out of the house and made to go private.

 

He reckons the banks will accept the governments guarantee of a discount as a deposit and arrange a mortgage on the outsanding balance, meaning he will only need a few grand saved up for fees etc.

[Jonnyboy]

The right-to-buy scheme introduced in the 1980s has been criticised for the following reasons:

 

 

• Speculating investors were able to buy up council properties through deferred transaction agreements, hastening the rise in property costs;
  
• Commercially and socially valuable council assets being sold at below their market value or replacement cost;
  
• The remaining stock of council housing was concentrated in undesirable areas with little employment opportunity, further isolating and stigmatising the tenants.
  

At this time, local councils had to use the money from sales to reduce their debts rather than reinvesting the money into new housing. This will cause real problems particularly in London where even Housing Associations are now struggling to find the wherewithall to build new housing because they're not getting the income from current properties because of the cap on housing benefit.

 

Its more ideological Thatcher b*llox, the tories want everything to be private (cos that will look after genuinely vulnerable people so well, honest).

[badgerx16]

If you were not already living there, would you buy a house on a council estate ? How does this boost the market other than moving public assets into the portfolios of private landlords ?

[bridge too far]

I think there was a programme on recently that showed that, in London, some people who had bought their council houses sublet them at extortionate prices.

[dune]

The middle class snobbery on this site never ceases to amaze me.

[dune]

Its more ideological Thatcher b*llox, the tories want everything to be private (cos that will look after genuinely vulnerable people so well, honest).

 

me me me, that's all you socialist types think about.

[Saintandy666]

me me me, that's all you socialist types think about.

 

Real Socialism is the opposite of me me me. Rugged Individualism is libertarian.

[Thedelldays]

my mum bought our old council place for a very cheap price...as a result we (or her) owned her first property, sold it and move away from social housing and now lives in a nice house in a decent area and actually owns something out right..

 

she was a staunch labour voter and still is...but would never have had this chance back in 1991 if it was not for the blue people that hate the working class etc etc

 

 

why ANYONE would prefer to live in a council house/flat instead of having the chance to own one is beyond me

[Seaford Saint]

35% off a fair price......sponsored by tax payers everywhere.

 

Tories don't care, never did never will.

[pap]

As someone who lived on a council estate through this scheme, it was a disaster. Many people bought, then promptly sold their council houses to private landlords, who moved students in. Houses lie empty for several months a year, and are full of rotating strangers when they are not. Those houses are still in private ownership, but nowadays, more are rented out to families, many on Housing Benefit. So instead of just paying maintenance costs on the house, taxpayers now pay market rates so that families can live in houses that 40 years ago, they could have virtually lived in for free.

 

Nice one, Maggie.

[Jonnyboy]

why ANYONE would prefer to live in a council house/flat instead of having the chance to own one is beyond me

 

Cameron says it will make more people take more pride in their area, but people will just sell up and move out of the area ASAP.

[Thedelldays]

As someone who lived on a council estate through this scheme, it was a disaster. Many people bought, then promptly sold their council houses to private landlords, who moved students in. Houses lie empty for several months a year, and are full of rotating strangers when they are not. Those houses are still in private ownership, but nowadays, more are rented out to families, many on Housing Benefit. So instead of just paying maintenance costs on the house, taxpayers now pay market rates so that families can live in houses that 40 years ago, they could have virtually lived in for free.

 

Nice one, Maggie.

yeah, student thrive in millbrook estate..

 

thank you maggie, you changed my mums life forever....

[Thedelldays]

Cameron says it will make more people take more pride in their area, but people will just sell up and move out of the area ASAP.

we never, my family and many of their neighbours live and have lived in millbrook all my life.....

[Jonnyboy]

As someone who lived on a council estate through this scheme, it was a disaster. Many people bought, then promptly sold their council houses to private landlords, who moved students in. Houses lie empty for several months a year, and are full of rotating strangers when they are not. Those houses are still in private ownership, but nowadays, more are rented out to families, many on Housing Benefit. So instead of just paying maintenance costs on the house, taxpayers now pay market rates so that families can live in houses that 40 years ago, they could have virtually lived in for free.

 

Nice one, Maggie.

 

So rather than saving money it costs the government more anyway, hence the cap on housing benefit being introduced now.

[Jonnyboy]

we never, my family and many of their neighbours live and have lived in millbrook all my life.....

 

my mum bought our old council place for a very cheap price...as a result we (or her) owned her first property, sold it and move away from social housing and now lives in a nice house in a decent area

 

[Thedelldays]

moved away from her flat to a house.........in millbrook.....millbrook is no way as bad as people say...and it is a big estate

[Jonnyboy]

me me me, that's all you socialist types think about.

 

I thought you'd be dead against handouts, surely its best to knuckle down and work your way out of poverty?

 

Council house rent is subsidised already so if you are both working you can save up over a few years.

[pap]

So rather than saving money it costs the government more anyway, hence the cap on housing benefit being introduced now.

 

Textbook right-wing "sounds great on paper" but given the sort of consideration one might assign to selecting a sandwich.

 

I can buy the idea of people being able to buy their own homes, but a combination of a desire for perceived upward mobility and opportunism from chain landlords caused a lot of problems that we're paying for every day. They could, and should have included clauses in the legislation ensuring that the properties could only be sold to families intending to occupy them.

 

The Flower Road estate has a bad name, but it was a genuinely nice place to live in the late 70s and early 80s. I attribute a lot of that to a lot of people being in the same boat. Everyone pretty much knew each other to talk to, and that sort of trust (or where appropriate, lack of) only really comes from continuity. No harm to the students that surfaced in the mid 80s, but it did change the character of the community.

 

Worse, social mobility for those on Housing Benefit in houses owned by private landlords is worse than ever. As soon as either one gets a job with enough hours to hit the Housing Benefit trigger, they have to start paying market rates for accommodation and in many cases, will be a lot worse off. Where is the incentive to work?

 

A working person in the same estate living in a house they rent from the council has much cheaper rent, much more incentive to work and a much better chance to save for a deposit. I don't begrudge people like TDD's mum for moving. Everyone should have a chance to buy their own home, and sell it if they wanted to move on. It'd work better if there were some safeguards in place to ensure that valuable family housing stock doesn't fall prey to the indifference of the market, taxpayers don't end up lining the pockets of private landlords in perpetuity, and a commitment to replenish council housing stock in line with demand. That didn't happen in the 80s - doubt it'll happen now.

 

That housing stock was a solid earner for councils. Not only did they lose the rental income from those properties, but students don't pay council tax. Double whammy.

 

Cap on housing benefits is a disgrace. It would be far fairer and cheaper to introduce rent controls, but the Government lacks both the nads and inclination. Some of them have good friends who are property tycoons.

[Thedelldays]

all sounds good pap with sweeping generalisations

 

 

again, why anyone would want to live in council housing rather than own your own him is beyond me

[pap]

again, why anyone would want to live in council housing rather than own your own him is beyond me

 

How about not having enough money to buy a house?

[Frank's cousin]

all sounds good pap with sweeping generalisations

 

again, why anyone would want to live in council housing rather than own your own him is beyond me

 

Was that intentional? Comic genius (or complete lack of self awareness) if it was.

 

 

Pap makes alot of sense, offers a fair compromise to the the situation - a desire to offer the chance to folk to own their own home, with the realisation that safeguards and controls need to be looked at to avoid the same problems that occured in the 80s...what''s not to like? I never understood those whoe desire to support a particular party means they stop questionning whether its right or not or look for fairerr and more rationale compromise - the Tory's have always been the worst at this, lapping up every word uttered from tehir leadership without question.

 

FFS, True politics is IMPROVING an idea through debate and dialogue with all sides. Tory idea improved through THINKING...

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Hmmm! my friend lives in a council house (50's) in quite a nice area, and his house according to council tax banding is worth up to £60000. Been there over 25yrs, does that mean he'll get it for nothing!!

[Special K]

My parents bought their council house in the 80's and still live there. Not a bad estate it is either, built post-war when space wasn't an issue hence large gardens - back and front and areas given over to play and recreation. True, the place has changed, but not really through increasing numbers of students or nasty landlords renting out to scumbags, but really through the number of cars and vans parked up on roadside verges and the large swathes of tarmac that cut from the road to the hard landscaped driveway. The people are generally the same and home ownership certainly didn't cause the distopia that some posters would like to think (bet very few have ever lived on a council estate, as it happens). And they have always suffered from image perpetuated by ignorant, lazy middle class types on both sides of the political pendulum who have no real experience of having lived on such estates. IMHO I don't see any rejuvination of a right-to-buy scheme being a problem at all. The vast, vast majority of purchasers will be owner occupiers and why should they, after paying rent for so many years, be denied the opportunity to purchase their house?

 

It is also important to get away from this myth that no social housing is built these days. True it has decreased, but any private development over (i think) 12 units will need to give 15% over to social housing, be that affordable, intermediate or purely rental through an HA. However, SH provision is heavily reliant on private investment from developers and/or housebuilders, i.e. the whole scheme has to be viable from private sales to be able to provide the social housing. And don't think they are shoddy and inadequate. If you have ever worked within the parameters of an HA "toolkit" (their specification documents) you'll soon realise the minimum space and spec requirements are pretty damn good. I worked on a development where the HA flats were bigger than about 20% the private sale flats.

[Jonnyboy]

That's fair enough, I've never lived in social housing but the issue only came up cos my colleague was banging on about selling his as soon as possible and moving to a bigger place.

Maybe that's just our generation.

[gary r]

i brought my council house some years ago , only paid 23k for it now worth 175k. i suppose i got lucky

[View From The Top]

In principle I've no issues with right to buy, being an estate kid myself. However, the flaw has always been that they money has not been reinvested in housing stock which has led to the housing crisis we have now.

 

If the funds were released to councils to build more social housing on brown fields sites it would aid the building trade, give youngsters the opportunity to get an apprenticeship and re-energise derelict land.

 

Instead in simply removes housing stock from the public rented sector and helps to drive up rental prices in the private sector, which in turns stops people saving for the massive mortgage deposits they now need.

Edited 15 March, 2012 by View From The Top

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I did like that little LABOUR DITTY (last govt) left us, that all council owned housing have to bring their rents in line with HA's. Which is a joke as most HA housing is new/modern, and most Council housing is old (30's/40's/50's & 60's). So one has latest heating, insulation, fittings ect, and one has old storage heaters, coal fires, no insulation ect. How can one be on a par with another rent wise!!!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Councils have always had the right to sell to their tenants, it wasn't some new fangled idea brought in by Mrs T.

 

Whether people like it or not, extending this right to buy was one of the most popular policies of the past 40 years. It got many many families onto the housing ladder.

 

Labour oppossed it in 1983 & 1987, but the great party of prinicple dropped their opposition in 1992 as polls showed it was costing them votes.

 

As a taxpayer who has not benefitted from this, I have no problem with it. Some of the estates round here have been transformed as people owned their own houses and spent time and effort doing them up.

 

I dont understand the leftie's objection to it, it's hardly middle class Tories who are benefitting from it. Just goes to prove what I've always thought, they are out of touch with what the people they claim to represent want. This was popular with working people and will be again.

[pap]

The objections centre on the outcomes, not the principle of being able to buy your own home.

 

As for middle-class Tories getting no benefit from it, we'll have to disagree. As I said before, many of these houses were promptly sold to private landlords - middle class at least. Whether they are Tories or not, who knows - but let's not pretend that the only people to benefit from this are those who got to buy their own homes.

 

We live in a country where we can't guarantee people a place to live, and where the high cost of housing is keeping people in poverty. If the aim is to get people onto the property ladder, surely dirt-cheap council housing is going to help in that.

 

As for the policy's popularity - it's almost certainly going to be one of diminishing returns, simply because housing stocks aren't at the level they were 20 years ago.

 

Couple of tweaks, and this legislation is good to go. Left at the mercy of property speculators, we're just going to exacerbate what is already a very acute problem.

[Thedelldays]

The objections centre on the outcomes, not the principle of being able to buy your own home.

 

As for middle-class Tories getting no benefit from it, we'll have to disagree. As I said before, many of these houses were promptly sold to private landlords - middle class at least. Whether they are Tories or not, who knows - but let's not pretend that the only people to benefit from this are those who got to buy their own homes.

 

We live in a country where we can't guarantee people a place to live, and where the high cost of housing is keeping people in poverty. If the aim is to get people onto the property ladder, surely dirt-cheap council housing is going to help in that.

 

As for the policy's popularity - it's almost certainly going to be one of diminishing returns, simply because housing stocks aren't at the level they were 20 years ago.

 

Couple of tweaks, and this legislation is good to go. Left at the mercy of property speculators, we're just going to exacerbate what is already a very acute problem.

source..?

[pap]

source..?

 

Assuming you are actually interested, check out this Guardian piece.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 points;

 

Surely it's just the sitting tenant who has the "right to buy", not some property dealer, and there were pay backs if you sold early.

 

 

It has always been hard to get onto the property ladder. I remember a time when Building Societies couldn't borrow money from the money markets and could only lend their deposits. You had to be a member, have interviews with the Manager and there was no such thing as 100%, or anywhere close to that, mortgages. It is hard to get onto the ladder and you do need to save a big deposit, but you always had to. It's only the past 30 years of easy credit that has made people think it's their "right" to borrow money.

[pap]

source..?

 

Oh, and as an aside - what happened to your mum's old place?

[Thedelldays]

Oh, and as an aside - what happened to your mum's old place?

bought by a young family...who still live there apparently

[buctootim]

My mum bought our place in Weston from the council in the 1970s. Last time I saw it it had fake wagon wheels screwed to the front walls, the tree in the garden chopped down and a caravan parked at the side of house. Im pretty sure it hasnt been bought by a middle class landlord

[Thedelldays]

My mum bought our place in Weston from the council in the 1970s. Last time I saw it it had fake wagon wheels screwed to the front walls, the tree in the garden chopped down and a caravan parked at the side of house. Im pretty sure it hasnt been bought by a middle class landlord

I can see the middle class seeing Shirley Warren as a license to print money...lol

[pap]

2 points;

 

Surely it's just the sitting tenant who has the "right to buy", not some property dealer, and there were pay backs if you sold early.

 

This was three years, extended to five by the last government. After that, the owner is free to sell to whomever he or she pleases - discount intact.

 

But there were ways around that:-

 

On top of all that, he says, there is the insanity of a practice known as Private Sector Leasing: councils putting families deemed to be emergency cases in ex-council properties, owned by private landlords who charge them as much as £300 a week for places they once rented out for less than a third of that. So much money can be made out of this wheeze that in many London boroughs, property firms have been known to leaflet and cold-call council tenants, offering cash enticements for them to use their Right to Buy on the companies' behalf. In some cases, this has come with a particularly cynical twist: for the first 14 years of Right to Buy, any ex-tenant selling up within three years of buying their home had to pay back their discount, so property companies encouraged them to simply move out, get their upfront cash bonus, sub-let their property back to the firm, and then sell it to them once the time was up (one such leaflet, issued circa 2004 by a firm called London Investment Properties Ltd, features a picture of a man with a wad of dollar bills, and the offer of "£5,000 to £20,000"; they last filed accounts in 2006, and there was no reply when I called their listed numbers).

 

[Huffton]

I live in a council house. And sorry to upset the masses who apparently pay for my keep, but I pay the same in taxes (percentage wise) as anyone else. I don't claim housing or council tax benefit. My wife and I both work, but there is no way we can get on the property ladder. Our place is one of the few remaining council owned properties on the estate, and because of that its a very nice place to live. If I'm ever in a position to buy this place I almost certainly will, as I want something of value to leave my kids, that will be my reason for buying it though, not to rent it out, which as far as I am concerned should be illegal.

[Fuengirola Saint]

we never, my family and many of their neighbours live and have lived in millbrook all my life.....

 

You just said your mum moved away and bought a house in a private area

[Fuengirola Saint]

You just said your mum moved away and bought a house in a private area

 

Ignore post above, didn't see your reply further down the page

[Jonnyboy]

My mum bought our place in Weston from the council in the 1970s. Last time I saw it it had fake wagon wheels screwed to the front walls, the tree in the garden chopped down and a caravan parked at the side of house. Im pretty sure it hasnt been bought by a middle class landlord

 

How do you know these people aren't renting?

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I think your find a lot of people would want to buy. Soley because the rent now outstrips the monthly morgage payments for their properties... Not because they want to sell to landlords.