ladysaint Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Can add the Crown in Shirley to this list now, boarded up today http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/hampshire/southampton.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 It's going to keep happening because we changed the way we drink, and the big chain pubs like Wetherspoons selling it much cheaper than the independent pubs doesn't help. It takes real effort to make a pub work these days. My local was dying a bit under previous ownership, but the new owners have really turned it around in the last few years with various events and stuff and have changed it into a place which is always busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Drink driving laws killed village pubs and the smoking ban killed off the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Drink driving laws killed village pubs and the smoking ban killed off the rest. Do you think drink driving laws and the smoking ban are bad then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Do you think drink driving laws and the smoking ban are bad then? I think the smoking ban is ridiculous, but can't argue against drink driving laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I think the smoking ban is ridiculous, but can't argue against drink driving laws. Well, I'm glad you agree with the drink driving laws, because if you didn't it would be utterly ridiculous. But don't you think the smoking laws are in a similar vein... i.e preventing you and your habits which are of course your own business from damaging others who chose not to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I think the smoking ban is ridiculous, but can't argue against drink driving laws. Totally agree with you Dune. I would have left it up to the individual pubs wether to inforce it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Well, I'm glad you agree with the drink driving laws, because if you didn't it would be utterly ridiculous. But don't you think the smoking laws are in a similar vein... i.e preventing you and your habits which are of course your own business from damaging others who chose not to do so? Public houses should have been given the option of becoming smoking or no smoking pubs......or failing that, having seperate bars? Dune is right, the smoking ban is rediculous..........and that's coming from an ex smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Why cant we have smoking pubs and non smoking pubs? Or go back to the old days and have smoking rooms? The smoking ban was definitely the turning point, pubs have been going down like ninepins since then. The Woodman has been there forever, its a tesco express now. ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Snap!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 A lot of pubs don't have the separate rooms. To be honest, to draw the parallel of drink driving and 2nd hand smoking, with drink driving you kill the person right away, but you effectively do the same thing with 2nd hand smoke, just over years instead. I'm glad I don't have to be subjected to it anymore. It used to be bloody awful when I was younger everywhere we went. Smoke if you want to, but don't bring it on the non-smokers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 That list is depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 The main problem is that my generation don't really go to pubs, and I blame the stigmatisation of drinking in general which has exacerbated the problem. My Dad's generation, it seems, at least according to him were allowed into the pub at 16 and 17 with a wink from the barman and so they learnt to drink in a good environment and were attached to the pub culture for life. These days, that is nigh on impossible, so instead kids start down the park with a bottle of vodka at a similar age and that sets the precedent for the next 5-10 years of their life. If we want to change our culture and save our pubs, we need to change how the pubs are and make them more welcoming to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 A lot of pubs don't have the separate rooms. To be honest, to draw the parallel of drink driving and 2nd hand smoking, with drink driving you kill the person right away, but you effectively do the same thing with 2nd hand smoke, just over years instead. I'm glad I don't have to be subjected to it anymore. It used to be bloody awful when I was younger everywhere we went. Smoke if you want to, but don't bring it on the non-smokers. Believe it or not,theres no firm evidence that second hand smoke harms you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 A lot of pubs don't have the separate rooms. To be honest, to draw the parallel of drink driving and 2nd hand smoking, with drink driving you kill the person right away, but you effectively do the same thing with 2nd hand smoke, just over years instead. I'm glad I don't have to be subjected to it anymore. It used to be bloody awful when I was younger everywhere we went. Smoke if you want to, but don't bring it on the non-smokers. Hello!!!!!!!!! make the seperate rooms, it's not that difficult ya'know. As for your 'woe is me, I'm a non smoker I'm glad I don't have to be subjected to it anymore', don't you think that's rather selfish?.......there's room for everyone on this planet you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I think the smoking ban is ridiculous, but can't argue against drink driving laws. Your opinion wouldn't be influenced in any way by the fact that you 'market' cigarettes for British American Tobacco by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Hello!!!!!!!!! make the seperate rooms, it's not that difficult ya'know. As for your 'woe is me, I'm a non smoker I'm glad I don't have to be subjected to it anymore', don't you think that's rather selfish?.......there's room for everyone on this planet you know I don't think I am being selfish at all. If anyone is being selfish, it is smokers who are damaging the health of the non-smokers for something they do not have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I don't think I am being selfish at all. If anyone is being selfish, it is smokers who are damaging the health of the non-smokers for something they do not have to do. So what would be the harm of having smoking and or no smoking bars in pubs, or even pubs that choose to have a smoking or non smoking policy?.......that's it though isn't it?, we're not allowed to choose nowadays are we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 So what would be the harm of having smoking and or no smoking bars in pubs, or even pubs that choose to have a smoking or non smoking policy?.......that's it though isn't it?, we're not allowed to choose nowadays are we That's correct. All these left-leaning politicans reckon they are enlightened and the rest of us are stupid, and therefore that we should await on their kind benevolence, sage counsel or wise direction over certain issues because "they know what is best for us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I don't get the argument. IF it is a good pub and it is non smoking then I (being a smoker) would be happy to go there. Likewise, if I was in town and had a choice I would go to a smoking pub. The reason it will NOT happen is that the pubs that will be busy will be the ones that allow smoking, that then upsets the non-smokers. We had it here, bunch of popular pubs went non-smoking to cater for the wishes of the non-smokers. They became empty. Now the non-smokers have left the bars that THEY asked for to go to the busy bars which are smoking and then they write letters and complain. Many bar/pub owners are non-smokers & serve food and should be allowed to have non-smoking pubs. The big chains can stay non-smoking BUT WHY can't SMOKING owners allow smoking in THEIR pubs? Never mind, all the non-smokers will be sitting on park benches in 5 years time as all the pubs will have shut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 That's correct. All these left-leaning politicans reckon they are enlightened and the rest of us are stupid, and therefore that we should await on their kind benevolence, sage counsel or wise direction over certain issues because "they know what is best for us" It's not about that at all though. It's about allowing those who choose not tosmoke, not to have their health damaged by those who chose to. It's not about knowing what is best for us at all. It's allowing a choice to the majority of the population who don't smoke. It's not stopping or banning smoking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 It's not about that at all though. It's about allowing those who choose not tosmoke, not to have their health damaged by those who chose to. It's not about knowing what is best for us at all. It's allowing a choice to the majority of the population who don't smoke. It's not stopping or banning smoking at all. So, in a City Centre (take Salisbury for example) You have 5 Pubs on one street within 250 yards. Why should it NOT be allowed for ONE to be a smoking pub? Non Smokers STILL have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 The smoking ban won't mean anything to pubs either way unless you get my generation into pubs. What you lot are arguing over is irrelevant in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 So, in a City Centre (take Salisbury for example) You have 5 Pubs on one street within 250 yards. Why should it NOT be allowed for ONE to be a smoking pub? Non Smokers STILL have a choice. Because that is not how it would pan out. The law for this kind of thing needs to be consistent. It is not fair for non-smokers health to be damaged by smokers habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I was a heavy smoker for 20 years, and I still wish that I could go to a 'proper pub' for a fag and a pint, i only gave it up because I couldn't afford it anymore..but I digress. I remember saying in the 90's (when the **** taking, as in 'we're taxing you more for you're smoking....for your own benefit started '....that before long, you'd get people breaking in to shops to pinch fags, and what do we see now? .....just this week, (and it started years ago), Asda in west end was broken in to, and they took everything from the tobacco kiosk. I personally think there should be a tax on fat people..........what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I think everyone here has just forgotten that pubs are just so bloody EXPENSIVE now. I'm sure that that is one of the main reasons for their demise - it's just much cheaper to stay home and drink now, and most people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I was a heavy smoker for 20 years, and I still wish that I could go to a 'proper pub' for a fag and a pint, i only gave it up because I couldn't afford it anymore..but I digress. I remember saying in the 90's (when the **** taking, as in 'we're taxing you more for you're smoking....for your own benefit started '....that before long, you'd get people breaking in to shops to pinch fags, and what do we see now? .....just this week, (and it started years ago), Asda in west end was broken in to, and they took everything from the tobacco kiosk. I personally think there should be a tax on fat people..........what do you think? VAT is applied on fatty foods and such, whereas on essentials it isn't. But you can't really compare the two, eating a bar of chocolate next to someone doesn't harm that persons health, whereas smoking next to that person does... it's just real life application of the harm principle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 It's not about that at all though. It's about allowing those who choose not tosmoke, not to have their health damaged by those who chose to. It's not about knowing what is best for us at all. It's allowing a choice to the majority of the population who don't smoke. It's not stopping or banning smoking at all. That's a typical liberal response to be fair. Smoking pubs or no smoking pubs........it's not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 I think everyone here has just forgotten that pubs are just so bloody EXPENSIVE now. I'm sure that that is one of the main reasons for their demise - it's just much cheaper to stay home and drink now, and most people do. This also, and what I talked about earlier about why younger people aren't going to pubs which is what kill them off in the end. I reckon the chains will do alright though because they can compete on price, and the better run pubs will be fine as well. It's a shame really, but pubs need to reform if they want to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 That's a typical liberal response to be fair. Smoking pubs or no smoking pubs........it's not difficult. So would you instigate a law making sure they are only allowed to be x percentage of smoking pubs within an area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 So would you instigate a law making sure they are only allowed to be x percentage of smoking pubs within an area? Not really - the pub could choose. There have been non-smoking pubs for ages - The New Inn in Salisbury springs to mind - and they were very successful. As you rightly point out, not everyone wants to breathe secondhand smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Not really - the pub could choose. There have been non-smoking pubs for ages - The New Inn in Salisbury springs to mind - and they were very successful. As you rightly point out, not everyone wants to breathe secondhand smoke. How can you ensure that non-smokers will be able to not have their health damaged then while going about their everyday life. This smoking ban in indoor places is the best and fairest way. Reverting the smoking ban will also not save the pub for reasons I already said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 Are you even old enough to drink Andy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 VAT is applied on fatty foods and such, whereas on essentials it isn't. But you can't really compare the two, eating a bar of chocolate next to someone doesn't harm that persons health, whereas smoking next to that person does... it's just real life application of the harm principle I'm taking your points on board Saintandy666..........but you seem to be missing mine . Lets put it this way, should fat people be banned (or maybe even taxed for the space they use up), from useing supermarkets because they inconvinience normal people from doing their daily/weekly shop?.....I mean, it's not my fault they're fat.........why should it be a burden to me?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 10 March, 2012 Share Posted 10 March, 2012 How can you ensure that non-smokers will be able to not have their health damaged then while going about their everyday life. This smoking ban in indoor places is the best and fairest way. Reverting the smoking ban will also not save the pub for reasons I already said. Smoking pubs would be required to hang a f*cking great sign about 8 feet high outside saying "beware only enter this pub if you want to die painfully and prematurely". FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 The smoking ban won't mean anything to pubs either way unless you get my generation into pubs. What you lot are arguing over is irrelevant in the long term. An MP in waiting..........good response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 The smoking ban was brought in to protect pub workers from passive smoking not patrons. I'm glad they're non-smoking now - make's it a more attractive place to go for non-smokers but wasn't that bothered before the law was introduced because it was my choice to go to a pub where I knew it would be smokey. In any case I'm not convinced the smoking ban is at fault. Pubs are so fricking expensive these days as a result of duty and landlords whacking up rents year on year. It's a win win for landlords. They either get a tidy rent from a successful pub or they get an empty pub which they can turn into flats. I'd welcome the Govt relaxing duty on drinks served in pubs/restaurants while increasing duty on supermarket sold booze, and also Councils restricting planning consents on former pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Majestic Channon Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 I'm a smoker and am glad about the smoking ban, i smoked way too much in pubs before probably without realising how much, going outside is no problem infact the fag is more enjoyable because i've had to wait for it. Also non smokers don't have to worry about breathing in second hand smoke. are the pig n whistle and the legendary osbourne still there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 Not often that I agree with both Dune and Phil on a single thread - but I really do think that the smoking ban has had a massive negative affect upon the pub trade. It would be interesting to see a poll of publicans asked whether they would like the opportunity to review the ban. Smokers were probably the majority of first customers to desert the pubs in favour of drinking at home - as somebody else above said - a pint goes with a fag and vice versa. Personally I would like to see people being given a choice - if the landlord wants to cater for smokers then fine, for non smokers - fine again, for both smokers and non smokers - great. For me - all the smoking ban appears to have done is drive smokers into little huddles in the doorways of pubs and bars, where the pavement is littered with thousands of discarded dog ends. I was staying in a hotel in Salisbury last year, during the summer months and couldn't believe the amount of dog ends all over the place. I also work extensively in Germany, staying in 3 or 4 star hotels and most of them have facilities for both smokers and non smokers. It seems to work fine over there - don't really see a reason why such facilities can't work in pubs and hotels here. I am a non smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 The smoking ban is great, it's means I don't come home stinking after a night out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 The smoking ban is great, it's means I don't come home stinking after a night out. This - more than anything else posted on the subject. Sadly Dubai hasn't really embraced it so after a night out, i have to strip off in the garden have a shower, wash my hair twice and make sure every article of clothing i've worn right down to shreddies and socks are either left outside or put in the washroom. Even after all this, I still smell like I've been rolling around in an ashtray all night long. Pah. As for the mess outside pubs - it's the smokers who are too lazy to put the butts in the bins provided FFS. It p!sses me off when I have people round who smoke and have not used the several ashtrays on tables in the garden, I still find butts under the table, in plant pots or in the soil. Phil always uses ashtrays when he's at mine - he knows Mrs EoA would rip his head off otherwise!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 saintandy......seriously, what the fuk do you know on this...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 The smoking ban won't mean anything to pubs either way unless you get my generation into pubs. What you lot are arguing over is irrelevant in the long term. Andy, you cannot deny that the pub trade absolutely nosedived at the exact point that the smoking ban was introduced. In the pubs that are left, usually the busiest area is the outside smoking shelter, and its not just old farts out there shivering and having a drag. I agree that there should be non-smoking pubs as well, and if, as was claimed, the trade wouldnt be affected because all the non smokers who boycotted the smoky dives for years would suddenly come racing in and that the food business would make up for it, well they'll still do well, wont they. I cant see the problem in advertising a pub as "Smoking" or "Smoke-free", making that plain to any prospective staff, and letting the punter make up their own minds. I dont smoke, but I resent the lack of traditional pubs left, nearly all the places I used to drop into for a lunchtime sandwich and a pint are gone now. One of my clients in Hamble is an adviser to pubs on profitability, last time I saw him he told me that almost every job he's called into nowadays results in a report saying "not viable, close the business". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 Smoking pubs would be required to hang a f*cking great sign about 8 feet high outside saying "beware only enter this pub if you want to die painfully and prematurely". FFS You could say that about any pub tbh. Perhaps we should make pubs alcohol-free as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 http://takingliberties.squarespace.com/taking-liberties/2010/9/6/smoking-ban-and-pub-closures.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 And another thing. The SMELL. Was back for the Derby match at SMS went out for dinner for Sis's 50th (Restaurant Pub - food served - should stay non-smoking IMHO). We then went to The Cathedral in Salisbury. (Jeez place made Rock Bottom Dubai look classy) The SMELL - Excessive BO. stale booze and Garlic. The place STANK. I could make quips about the French teaching the younger Brits how to use soap, I could accept an excuse of poor young students not having enough money for washing powder, but to argue about the Smell of a smoking v non smoking pub.... No, sorry, many non-smoking Pubs stink as badly as the old smoking pubs did. Sure it is a different smell but they STINK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 What worries me is how many of those pubs i had been in =, counted 36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysaint Posted 11 March, 2012 Author Share Posted 11 March, 2012 I'm a smoker and am glad about the smoking ban, i smoked way too much in pubs before probably without realising how much, going outside is no problem infact the fag is more enjoyable because i've had to wait for it. Also non smokers don't have to worry about breathing in second hand smoke. are the pig n whistle and the legendary osbourne still there? Both pubs still surviving at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 saintandy......seriously, what the fuk do you know on this...? Brilliant contribution. Why am I not allowed an opinion on the smoking ban then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 11 March, 2012 Share Posted 11 March, 2012 Brilliant contribution. Why am I not allowed an opinion on the smoking ban then? because you can't actually have experienced it when you could smoke in pubs and know what it was like 5 years ago (or when ever it was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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