sfc1971 Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Oxford won 2 nil with two good assists form Lee, We should have loaned them Puncheon and kept Holmes.
Roger Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Oxford won 2 nil with two good assists form Lee, We should have loaned them Puncheon and kept Holmes. Are you mad? Holmes has done nothing for us for years, hes found his level now. Puncheon played well in the prem and is a different level to holmes. jesus!
Saint-Armstrong Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Oxford fan who is a friend of mine rants and raves about him. Says he is an absolute class above. Has contributed 5 or 6 assists since joining them. They really love him down there, his delivery is great and the fans are dead keen to extend his loan!
sfc1971 Posted 5 March, 2012 Author Posted 5 March, 2012 Are you mad? Holmes has done nothing for us for years, hes found his level now. Puncheon played well in the prem and is a different level to holmes. jesus! You obviously didn`t pay any attention on sat.
Saint_Jonny Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 You obviously didn`t pay any attention on sat. One dodgy performance does not a bad player make. Or something.
Roger Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 You obviously didn`t pay any attention on sat. Did you go to west ham? Puncheon was brilliant when he came on. Other than rickie and davis no one was very good in first half at leeds. Holmes has been pants for ages for us and I just dont get this love in with a player who has done nothing for us. Hes now got 2 assists playing in league 2! Amazing. The lad is a top bloke but he isnt the answer for us and please dont kid yourself that he is as good as puncheon, hes not.
sfc1971 Posted 5 March, 2012 Author Posted 5 March, 2012 One dodgy performance does not a bad player make. Or something. One dodgy performance, How long have you been watching the saints ?Puncheon simply gave up after 30mins the bloke is a F@nny simple as
supersonic Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Oxford won 2 nil with two good assists form Lee, We should have loaned them Puncheon and kept Holmes. No. Just No. Flashes of quality, constantly injured. Won't be long until he's injured again. Punch is a lot better and reliable than sicknote
SuperMikey Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Punch has done really well since he's started playing for us again, he just had a bad game on Saturday. No worries there, every player has bad games. I was really against him coming back to play for us but he's been gutsy and really worked hard since he's been back, so all credit to him. Seems like a nicer bloke as well, i'm not worried about him being a disruptive influence anymore. I really rate Holmes as well. He scored against Watford this season for us and has had a few decent games coming off the bench. Good squad player for this level and wouldn't be averse to keeping him on should we get promoted. He'll want to be playing every week though, so a move to a L1 club will probably be on the cards this summer for him - that's his level I think. If he didn't have his injury problems and was quicker he would be in the starting line-up imo. Great delivery and works hard.
supersonic Posted 5 March, 2012 Posted 5 March, 2012 Punch has done really well since he's started playing for us again, he just had a bad game on Saturday. No worries there, every player has bad games. I was really against him coming back to play for us but he's been gutsy and really worked hard since he's been back, so all credit to him. Seems like a nicer bloke as well, i'm not worried about him being a disruptive influence anymore. I really rate Holmes as well. He scored against Watford this season for us and has had a few decent games coming off the bench. Good squad player for this level and wouldn't be averse to keeping him on should we get promoted. He'll want to be playing every week though, so a move to a L1 club will probably be on the cards this summer for him - that's his level I think. If he didn't have his injury problems and was quicker he would be in the starting line-up imo. Great delivery and works hard. Keep him for next season? What, so we can use him to play twice for about 10 minutes in total and so he can increase our medical bill....no thanks
doddisalegend Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Oxford won 2 nil with two good assists form Lee, We should have loaned them Puncheon and kept Holmes. ermmmmm...........no. Two assits in a league 2 game vs a player who has scored in the PL (if we're going to take one off performances as an indicator of how good a player is). Holmes is clearly better than league 2. Puncheon had a poor game at Leeds but he was hardly alone it that respect.
Saint_clark Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 One dodgy performance, How long have you been watching the saints ?Puncheon simply gave up after 30mins the bloke is a F@nny simple as I said this would happen in the "Should we give Puncheon another chance?" thread...
Sour Mash Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Punch has done really well since he's started playing for us again, he just had a bad game on Saturday. No worries there, every player has bad games. I was really against him coming back to play for us but he's been gutsy and really worked hard since he's been back, so all credit to him. Seems like a nicer bloke as well, i'm not worried about him being a disruptive influence anymore. I really rate Holmes as well. He scored against Watford this season for us and has had a few decent games coming off the bench. Good squad player for this level and wouldn't be averse to keeping him on should we get promoted. He'll want to be playing every week though, so a move to a L1 club will probably be on the cards this summer for him - that's his level I think. If he didn't have his injury problems and was quicker he would be in the starting line-up imo. Great delivery and works hard. Forget Holmes, I doubt he'll ever play for us again, but what exactly has Puncheon done since he's been back?
Jonnyboy Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Sounds like Punch has done well but he hasnt scored, and has he had any assists yet??
dubai_phil Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Puncheon is a good player and adds to the team. HOWEVER. He clearly cannot play (or get his around playing) at Left Midfield. SDR is not a left midfielder (still touch & go whether he is a RM either) but in the PL will be useful on the bench as an option when we can have 7 players there. Chaplow, Morgan & Hammond have all shown that they are not as effective at LM. We have seen that in many games a Diamond formation is useful as AN OPTION, but we have not been as effective when it has been our ONLY option. Holmes has had horrid injury problems. BUT there was an article about the team at Staplewood identifying the weakness and rebuilding his leg muscles "from scratch" Holmes is now getting regular games and (providing the Staplewood team are correct in their assessment) he will now be getting match fit for the first time in about 3 years. While he is NEVER going to be a replacement for AL, he DOES IF match fit give us an OPTION to keep a proper shape in midfield. I'd never play him on the right in the same way I'd never pick Puncheon to play (90 minutes) on the left. I think he could still provide important cover for us. I would (for eg) rather play Holmes tonight and give AL an extra few days to get over his groin strain IF he was back at the club. Hell, Falque or Holmes on the left to keep a proper shape? I do however believe it he will not be needed in the PL
Stubby Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Puncheon is a good player and adds to the team. HOWEVER. He clearly cannot play (or get his around playing) at Left Midfield. SDR is not a left midfielder (still touch & go whether he is a RM either) but in the PL will be useful on the bench as an option when we can have 7 players there. Chaplow, Morgan & Hammond have all shown that they are not as effective at LM. We have seen that in many games a Diamond formation is useful as AN OPTION, but we have not been as effective when it has been our ONLY option. Holmes has had horrid injury problems. BUT there was an article about the team at Staplewood identifying the weakness and rebuilding his leg muscles "from scratch" Holmes is now getting regular games and (providing the Staplewood team are correct in their assessment) he will now be getting match fit for the first time in about 3 years. While he is NEVER going to be a replacement for AL, he DOES IF match fit give us an OPTION to keep a proper shape in midfield. I'd never play him on the right in the same way I'd never pick Puncheon to play (90 minutes) on the left. I think he could still provide important cover for us. I would (for eg) rather play Holmes tonight and give AL an extra few days to get over his groin strain IF he was back at the club. Hell, Falque or Holmes on the left to keep a proper shape? I do however believe it he will not be needed in the PL Yes. All of this.
Bad Wolf Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Holmes has really done nothing for us since our relegation season for whatever reason. Puncheon has been brilliant since he's been back. He has ONE bad game (infact not even a bad game, just a slightly below par game) and all of a sudden we should loan him out to a league two side?! Just about shows how fickle football fans are.
Sour Mash Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Holmes has really done nothing for us since our relegation season for whatever reason. Puncheon has been brilliant since he's been back. He has ONE bad game (infact not even a bad game, just a slightly below par game) and all of a sudden we should loan him out to a league two side?! Just about shows how fickle football fans are. Do you genuinely think Puncheon has been "brilliant"? Yes or no?
Bad Wolf Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Do you genuinely think Puncheon has been "brilliant"? Yes or no? I think he's certainly been one of our better players since he's been back, yes.
Minty Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I wouldn't rule anything out with Holmes. If he is getting match fitness back, clearing providing quality at that level, and starting (still some way to go yet) that he is over his injury, then I wouldn't rule out a return for him, given his age and the fact he can still improve. To try and compare him to Puncheon at the moment is frankly a bit silly on many levels.
Sour Mash Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I think he's certainly been one of our better players since he's been back, yes. So you think he's been brilliant? He's been neat and tidy at times, but has done very little in terms of a serious impact and has certainly not been brilliant.
Turkish Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I think he's certainly been one of our better players since he's been back, yes. Better than Lambert, Lallana, Davis, Hooliveld, Richardson, Fox, Fonte, Lee & Schniderlin?
Mowgli Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I wouldn't rule anything out with Holmes. If he is getting match fitness back, clearing providing quality at that level, and starting (still some way to go yet) that he is over his injury, then I wouldn't rule out a return for him, given his age and the fact he can still improve. To try and compare him to Puncheon at the moment is frankly a bit silly on many levels. At last some common sense. Saints have invested a lot of time and money not just helping him recover from his injuries but a new diet and exercise regime that has helped to rebuild muscles in the lower leg to strengthen the ankles and minimise the risk of recurring injury. Forget what happened before. Like Puncheon, judge him on what he delivers from now. And yesturkish, minute for minute, I think puncheon has been as effective as Lee, fox and Richardson in the games he has played.
captainchris Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Holmes has really done nothing for us since our relegation season for whatever reason. Puncheon has been brilliant since he's been back. He has ONE bad game (infact not even a bad game, just a slightly below par game) and all of a sudden we should loan him out to a league two side?! Just about shows how fickle football fans are. No the fans are not 'fickle' his form is and always has been.................Puncheon is yet to impress many fans and that is still the case...
Turkish Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 At last some common sense. Saints have invested a lot of time and money not just helping him recover from his injuries but a new diet and exercise regime that has helped to rebuild muscles in the lower leg to strengthen the ankles and minimise the risk of recurring injury. Forget what happened before. Like Puncheon, judge him on what he delivers from now. And yesturkish, minute for minute, I think puncheon has been as effective as Lee, fox and Richardson in the games he has played. Are you sure? Lee has one goal and one assist to his name in about 3 1/2 games, fox and Richardson are our two leading assisters. Richardson is being talked about some as one of our best players this season. What has Puncheon done to make him better?
SuperSAINT Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Really pleased to see him playing some games on the bounce.
JRM Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 My swindon mate went on saturday and said Holmes was superb and their right back just couldn't cope with him, if he isn't good enough for the championship he sounds like he is far too good for league two. good luck to him. as for Puncheon he has been better since return but no where near "brilliant" or one of our "best" players
Turkish Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 There is no doubt the lad has ability, He can cross, good on the ball and has a touch of class about him. It's just a shame he's made out of glass otherwise he could be a very good championship player. In fact if you could combine his and De Ridders best bits you'd have the perfect winger.
Minty Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 These should be two separate discussions really. I agree with JRM above about Puncheon but that has nothing to do with Holmes. Holmes certainly was made of glass previously, so that's why it's interesting to see how he does performing week in and week out as he is now... so far so good, but a long way to go yet.
The9 Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Is it news that a Saints player who's on the fringes of a Championship side is going to look good in League Two ? All credit to Holmes nevertheless, he's always been decent for us when he's had a run of games, he just hasn't ever been fit long enough for that run, and he's never going to get in ahead of Lallana.
dvaughanwilliams Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 When the news first broke to say that Lee Holmes was off to Oxford, a lot of people commented that they were surprised that he had dropped down to League 2. I'm not surprised that he is impressing at that level because I think he's better than that league. I think that there are a lot of characteristics to admire in Lee Holmes, his application, his patience, the work he does away from football, etc. Because of this, I am inclined to give him more credit than he deserves, but consider that he has done OK on the few times he's played, given his lack of match fitness by being little more than a bit part player. I feel sorry for him and Ryan Dickson, who never got over giving the ball away for ManU's second goal in the FA Cup because they both have ability, but never quite did enough to convince Nigel to give them more game time. I think Lee Holmes' contract is up at the end of the season and I can't see us extending his stay.
supersonic Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 LH really is over-rated by a lot of people. No Pace, No Skill, No good in the Air, No good in the tackle and ALWAYS injured. He must be the only player to head the ball and pull his hamstring. He has an OK Cross, but nothing special
Minty Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 LH really is over-rated by a lot of people. No Pace, No Skill, No good in the Air, No good in the tackle and ALWAYS injured. He must be the only player to head the ball and pull his hamstring. He has an OK Cross, but nothing special He may be over-rated by some, but you are equally as guilty of over-exaggeration given that he is currently NOT injured and creating a number of goals for Oxford using some skill and pace. Saying he has none is just silly. Why do people think that taking up polar opposite positions in any discussion of this kind, brings any value to the discussion. Or is it, as I suspect, just lazy baiting?
supersonic Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 He may be over-rated by some, but you are equally as guilty of over-exaggeration given that he is currently NOT injured and creating a number of goals for Oxford using some skill and pace. Saying he has none is just silly. Why do people think that taking up polar opposite positions in any discussion of this kind, brings any value to the discussion. Or is it, as I suspect, just lazy baiting? Oh yeah because he set up 2 goals in League 2 means we must immediately bring him back and put him in the team. It's League 2! not the Championship. Also, Forte has got 2 goals in 2 games so judging by people's logic, we should recall him and drop Lee/Guly/Sharp
Minty Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Oh yeah because he set up 2 goals in League 2 means we must immediately bring him back and put him in the team. It's League 2! not the Championship. And if you calmed down for a second and read my posts clearly, you would see that nowhere have I said any such thing. Nor have I claimed he is amazing. Or made any claim whatsoever actually. If someone had NO pace, NO skill an could not cross a ball then he wouldn't be able to create anything at all. He wouldn't even be a footballer. That is why what you said was just silly. Also, Forte has got 2 goals in 2 games so judging by people's logic, we should recall him and drop Lee/Guly/Sharp This isn't even worth commenting on. So I'll say again: Why the need to have a polar view?
DrunkenSaint Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Do you genuinely think Puncheon has been "brilliant"? Yes or no? He's been a hell of a lot better than Guly, why ppl rate him i have no idea.
L1Minus10 Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I'd say that Jonno Forte has contributed more than Holmes as he scored 2 vital goals when we needed them. Holmes has contributed absolutely nothing of note in 4 years. Great when we're 3-0 up already but just never does enough (Watford at home, Forest away this season). Has ability sure but nowhere near good enough for regular Championship football.
Smirking_Saint Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 You obviously didn`t pay any attention on sat. Have you ever payed attention to Holmes playing ?
Smirking_Saint Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Holmes is playing well for league 2 Oxford, obviously he should immediately go into the side above a player thats one of our top scorers and another that has played NPC and Prem football
ART Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 Lee's scored both goals so far. Really pleased for the lad. Was unlucky to injury but he's beginning to shine, all be it League Two.
Saint Garrett Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I like Holmes and wish him well, just not sure he is any better than anyone we've got. Fair play to him though, hope he gets a few more.
sammysaint Posted 6 March, 2012 Posted 6 March, 2012 I like Holmes and wish him well, just not sure he is any better than anyone we've got. Fair play to him though, hope he gets a few more. Yep me 2, i hope a poor championship team take a gamble on him, let him prove himself again in this league.
Baird of the land Posted 7 March, 2012 Posted 7 March, 2012 Glad to see holmes is doing so well at Oxford. Interesting to see if he can stay fit for a prolonged period of time as i personally think he is a very talented player. He'll probably move on in the summer but i'd be all for keeping him at the Saints.
Chez Posted 7 March, 2012 Posted 7 March, 2012 Punch has done really well since he's started playing for us again, he just had a bad game on Saturday. disagree with this. IMO he has been poor since coming back into the side. That said I don't rate Holmes either.
doddisalegend Posted 7 March, 2012 Posted 7 March, 2012 disagree with this. IMO he has been poor since coming back into the side. That said I don't rate Holmes either. I thought he was one of our best players in the blizzard at Birmingham in very difficult condtions. Since then I think he has been OK but not outstanding it would be nice if he could find a bit of the form he had while on loan at Millwall last season.
SaintNeil90 Posted 7 March, 2012 Posted 7 March, 2012 disagree with this. IMO he has been poor since coming back into the side. That said I don't rate Holmes either. Is it me or does Puncheon look fatter and slower? Looks like he's worked on his strength a little too much.
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