Proud and Prejudice

[pap]

For the first time I respect you. Personally I think there is nothing to fear from the written word, so until recently didnt bother with an ignore list either. But in Verbals case I can visualise a Billy-No-Mates with a superior air managing (just about) to slum it on this site with the proles, so I'd rather limit my exposure.

 

You'll have to forgive me if I don't gushingly reciprocate. Respect is a two-way street, mate - and I haven't seen much of it coming from Alpsville.

[alpine_saint]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't gushingly reciprocate. Respect is a two-way street, mate - and I haven't seen much of it coming from Alpsville.

 

I did say it was the first time. Personally, overall, I think you are a f**king attention seeking bore. You might be an interesting warm person if you dropped the f**king dogma. Must be all that living in Liverpool, the city that put "dog" into "dogma"....

[pap]

I did say it was the first time. Personally, overall, I think you are a f**king attention seeking bore. You might be an interesting warm person if you dropped the f**king dogma. Must be all that living in Liverpool, the city that put "dog" into "dogma"....

 

 

Did you look at our respective join dates and post counts before posting this?

[Orange]

How do you even qualify that? Let's take Iraq as one of your examples.

 

In all the time Saddam was in power, it is estimated that he killed 40,000 people. I've been generous here, and given you the higher estimate ( some peg it as low as 5,000 ).

 

During the most recent campaign against Iraq, over a million people died as a result of that conflict.

 

Where are you geting your facts from..it was a lot more than 40,000. Suppose it must have been great over there before the nasty US and UK came along, when you get past the ethnic cleansing etc.

[Orange]

Because it helps understanding in humans. Your average person growing up in a multicultural area will have more knowledge of other cultures if he has neighbours and friends from around the world compared to those who have no contact with other cultures when growing up. I grew up in a village in North Hampshire, and the population there is pretty much 99.98% white. Only in the last 5 years or so have there been more people living in the area from more diverse ethnic backgrounds, and I think that's a great thing. In my year at school, there were 2 pupils from non-white backgrounds out of around 250 pupils in the year. That's why I love living in Southampton - the diversity of the people that you meet and see is great.

 

Also, widening the gene pool is never a bad thing.

I'm all for a little. But shouldn't countries have their own dominant culture? Thats what traveling is for.

Do you live in a nice part of town where meeting 'other cultures' consists of going for a Curry? You seem to have quite a naiive outlook.

[pap]

Where are you geting your facts from..it was a lot more than 40,000. Suppose it must have been great over there before the nasty US and UK came along, when you get past the ethnic cleansing etc.

 

Hands up. You're right to point out that figure is too low. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of Iraqi civilians killed in 20 years between 230,000 and 250,000.

[alpine_saint]

Hands up. You're right to point out that figure is too low. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of Iraqi civilians killed in 20 years between 230,000 and 250,000.

 

At least you got another person to bite.

[pap]

At least you got another person to bite.

 

We clearly have different motivations.

[SuperMikey]

I'm all for a little. But shouldn't countries have their own dominant culture? Thats what traveling is for.

Do you live in a nice part of town where meeting 'other cultures' consists of going for a Curry? You seem to have quite a naiive outlook.

 

Why should there be a dominant culture? Is there even a need to have a cultural identity in a cosmopolitan nation like ours? We eat Indian food, drink Dutch lager, watch Brazilian players in our local team, watch American TV, drive a Korean car... is there anything still present in day-to-day life which is quintessentially British?

 

I currently live in Highfield, moving to Portswood in June. My neighbours include Chinese, Czech, Indian, Ugandan, French, Polish and Russian people. Two of my good mates are Argentinian and Uruguayan. I'm exposed to other cultures on a daily basis, but I don't choose to practice all of them. We all choose our own way in this culture - I could convert to Islam if I wanted and start going to the Mosque tomorrow morning, but I choose not to. I think having a choice in your culture is a great thing, but you can accuse me of naivety for thinking that if you want.

[Saintandy666]

Interesting discussion on de facto segregation in the UK on Question Time at the moment.

[SuperMikey]

Interesting discussion on de facto segregation in the UK on Question Time at the moment.

 

What are you doing watching Question Time you little nerd? Shouldn't you be balls deep in some perma-tanned slag right now?

 

Going to catch QT when I come back from work tomorrow - who's on the panel?

[Saintandy666]

What are you doing watching Question Time you little nerd? Shouldn't you be balls deep in some perma-tanned slag right now?

 

Going to catch QT when I come back from work tomorrow - who's on the panel?

 

:'( MY FEELINGS ARE IRREVERSIBLY HURT.

 

It was David Starkey who is always worth a watch just for the pure lols, John Redwood, Rachel Reeves, Jo Swinson and Clarke Carlisle. A pretty good episode actually!

[SuperMikey]

:'( MY FEELINGS ARE IRREVERSIBLY HURT.

 

It was David Starkey who is always worth a watch just for the pure lols, John Redwood, Rachel Reeves, Jo Swinson and Clarke Carlisle. A pretty good episode actually!

 

Jo Swinson is the biggest waste of space ever... I don't even know why the Lib Dems put her forward to go on QT! Clarke Carlisle is very good whenever he's on though - would make a good politician I think.

[Saintandy666]

Jo Swinson is the biggest waste of space ever... I don't even know why the Lib Dems put her forward to go on QT! Clarke Carlisle is very good whenever he's on though - would make a good politician I think.

 

I was actually thinking tonight what he might do once he retires. Could see him as a politician of some sort, and I think that he is perhaps slightly left of centre? But he is quite constructive and pragmatic. He has a good manner also.

[SuperMikey]

I was actually thinking tonight what he might do once he retires. Could see him as a politician of some sort, and I think that he is perhaps slightly left of centre? But he is quite constructive and pragmatic. He has a good manner also.

 

He's already chair of the PFA - he'd make a great Minister for Sport.

[Saintandy666]

He's already chair of the PFA - he'd make a great Minister for Sport.

 

Indeed, that is a good idea. He'd be a good champion for sport.

 

This is probably a stupid question, but do you have to be a currently active player to be chair of the PFA?

[Turkish]

F*Ck me, two teenagers discussing question time on an internet mong board. I think it's what some might call living the dream.

[Turkish]

Why should there be a dominant culture? Is there even a need to have a cultural identity in a cosmopolitan nation like ours? We eat Indian food, drink Dutch lager, watch Brazilian players in our local team, watch American TV, drive a Korean car... is there anything still present in day-to-day life which is quintessentially British?

 

I currently live in Highfield, moving to Portswood in June. My neighbours include Chinese, Czech, Indian, Ugandan, French, Polish and Russian people. Two of my good mates are Argentinian and Uruguayan. I'm exposed to other cultures on a daily basis, but I don't choose to practice all of them. We all choose our own way in this culture - I could convert to Islam if I wanted and start going to the Mosque tomorrow morning, but I choose not to. I think having a choice in your culture is a great thing, but you can accuse me of naivety for thinking that if you want.

 

"exposed to other cultures on a daily basis" because he's got a few foreigners living on his road and a couple of south american mates at Uni. FAF!!! :lol::lol:

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I was actually thinking tonight what he might do once he retires. Could see him as a politician of some sort, and I think that he is perhaps slightly left of centre? But he is quite constructive and pragmatic. He has a good manner also.

 

You didn't think he was slightly hypocritical when he said that his members are all for making their contribution by paying the 50p tax?

[Saintandy666]

You didn't think he was slightly hypocritical when he said that his members are all for making their contribution by paying the 50p tax?

 

Is there chronic tax evasion by Footballers?

 

And if he is a hypocrite, he's even more on his way to politics

[saintbletch]

Is there chronic tax evasion by Footballers?

 

And if he is a hypocrite, he's even more on his way to politics

 

The words Sol Campbell and Image Rights should answer that.

 

I think Clark Carlisle did a good job but he looked a little uncomfortable defending tax avoidance by some of his members.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

My point is that his members have basically drained football dry with their obscene wage demands. Very easy to say that footballers are happy to make their contribution to society by paying the 50p tax but the reality is that footballers have basically bankrupted their sport through their greed and that of their representatives.

 

Who is the highest paid Golfer?

[pap]

To be fair Sergei, footballer's wages didn't rise in a vacuum and couldn't have got to where they are without people willing to pay them. There are many reasons that football is facing hard financial times. Footballers are part of that problem, but a lot of other people had to say "yes" for the wage rises to happen.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

To be fair Sergei, footballer's wages didn't rise in a vacuum and couldn't have got to where they are without people willing to pay them. There are many reasons that football is facing hard financial times. Footballers are part of that problem, but a lot of other people had to say "yes" for the wage rises to happen.

 

Player's wages and borrowing too much money to build new stadiums are the two fundamental reasons. The wage demands of agents have quite simply been unsustainable - why do you think there is talk of a cap on wage levels as a percentage of turnover are always being touted. What other major reasons can you possibly suggest.

 

Why do you think Pompey are going into liquidation?

[Saintandy666]

Golfers earn a lot too at the top - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2011/index.html

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Golfers earn a lot too at the top - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2011/index.html

 

I should have asked which English golfer is highest paid?

[Saintandy666]

I should have asked which English golfer is highest paid?

 

No idea, but I would imagine those that do well in the big competitions get quite a bit. I don't follow Golf though.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

No idea, but I would imagine those that do well in the big competitions get quite a bit. I don't follow Golf though.

 

The answer is Wayne Bridge

[Saintandy666]

The answer is Wayne Bridge

 

You've lost me.

[saintbletch]

My point is that his members have basically drained football dry with their obscene wage demands. Very easy to say that footballers are happy to make their contribution to society by paying the 50p tax but the reality is that footballers have basically bankrupted their sport through their greed and that of their representatives.

 

Who is the highest paid Golfer?

 

I agree in principle Sergei Gotsmanov, but laying the blame solely at the footballers' "feet" would be too simplistic.

 

It's difficult to defend footballers. As a group they are easy to view as amoral.

 

I'm sure they, and perhaps others on here, would point to the fact that their skills are being bought in free market. They'd also probably point to the fact that they only want to be paid the going rate in an industry that creates immense wealth from the live events themselves as well as the sale of TV and media rights domestically and overseas.

 

It's difficult to argue against the 'market' concept because if clubs refused to pay the wages, the would fall.

 

So on that basis some of the blame has to come back to those that run the clubs. And they don't do this in a vacuum, so us fans that push our clubs to invest more and more to chase glory also have to take our share of the 'blame',

 

If I were looking for a causal effect, I'd suggest it is the excesses of the Premier League and the 3 up 3 down mechanism that causes the problem. So we all cancel our Sky subscriptions and in 3-4 years it will work itself out.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

You've lost me.

 

how much football does he play?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I agree in principle Sergei Gotsmanov, but laying the blame solely at the footballers' "feet" would be too simplistic.

 

It's difficult to defend footballers. As a group they are easy to view as amoral.

 

I'm sure they, and perhaps others on here, would point to the fact that their skills are being bought in free market. They'd also probably point to the fact that they only want to be paid the going rate in an industry that creates immense wealth from the live events themselves as well as the sale of TV and media rights domestically and overseas.

 

It's difficult to argue against the 'market' concept because if clubs refused to pay the wages, the would fall.

 

So on that basis some of the blame has to come back to those that run the clubs. And they don't do this in a vacuum, so us fans that push our clubs to invest more and more to chase glory also have to take our share of the 'blame',

 

If I were looking for a causal effect, I'd suggest it is the excesses of the Premier League and the 3 up 3 down mechanism that causes the problem. So we all cancel our Sky subscriptions and in 3-4 years it will work itself out.

 

I agree that the people who run football clubs are to blame when a club gets into difficulty but how often have players agents held the club to ransom.

[Saintandy666]

how much football does he play?

 

I get you now. Footballers are paid a lot, but they are only products of their industry.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I get you now. Footballers are paid a lot, but they are only products of their industry.

 

and Bankers?

[Saintandy666]

and Bankers?

 

Products of their industry and surroundings.

[SuperMikey]

"exposed to other cultures on a daily basis" because he's got a few foreigners living on his road and a couple of south american mates at Uni. FAF!!! :lol::lol:

 

Yeah, it looks pretty stupid reading that back... But the point I was trying to make was that living in a city like this gives you a much wider experience of other people and cultures than where I was previously living. People can become cocooned in a certain way of living and it's good to get out there and meet people from around the world instead of sticking to one demographic all your life. People should be less insular.

[Turkish]

Yeah, it looks pretty stupid reading that back... But the point I was trying to make was that living in a city like this gives you a much wider experience of other people and cultures than where I was previously living. People can become cocooned in a certain way of living and it's good to get out there and meet people from around the world instead of sticking to one demographic all your life. People should be less insular.

 

So are you saying that someone like Andy666 who lives in a little village dont have a wide experience of other people and culture?

[Thedelldays]

So are you saying that someone like Andy666 who lives in a little village dont have a wide experience of other people and culture?

I have read it all......I take it, you would be ethnically diverse if you live in St Marys....more so than if you live in Millbrook

 

ffs

[Saintandy666]

So are you saying that someone like Andy666 who lives in a little village dont have a wide experience of other people and culture?

 

I don't live in a little village

 

Though it would be fair to say I have little experience beyond living where I live, just as others do unless they have moved about.

[Turkish]

I don't live in a little village

 

Where do you live then? It was a little village or town IIRC.

[Saintandy666]

Where do you live then? It was a little village or town IIRC.

 

I'm not telling you where I live, but it's certainly not a 'little village'.

[Turkish]

I'm not telling you where I live, but it's certainly not a 'little village'.

 

You dont need to tell me where, just it it a village, a town, a city etc. I'm sure you've said before you live in a little middle class village or small town and you were bursting with excitment to get to university so you could be in a cultral melting pot.

[Saintandy666]

You dont need to tell me where, just it it a village, a town, a city etc. I'm sure you've said before you live in a little middle class village or small town.

 

I have never ever said I live in a 'little middle class village' or a 'small town' because it isn't true! You really do make stuff up to suit yourself. It's also quite irrelevant.

[pap]

I agree that the people who run football clubs are to blame when a club gets into difficulty but how often have players agents held the club to ransom.

 

I don't think anyone is being held to ransom. The clubs have the ultimate say in whether they sign someone or cave in to contract demands. Most clubs do, but not all. Look at what Blackpool did last season. As a new entrant to the Premier League, they would have been a prime target for avaricious agents. Yet they relented, got relegated, but have a crap-load more cash than they did before, plus a couple of parachute payments to prop up future promotion charges.

 

They played an absolute blinder in terms of their long term financial health, so I think you could argue that clubs aren't held to ransom. Most of them are just stupid enough to pay it.

[Turkish]

I have never ever said I live in a 'little middle class village' or a 'small town' because it isn't true! You really do make stuff up to suit yourself. It's also quite irrelevant.

 

No it isn't, it's very relevant, because your pal Mikey has said that people that dont live in cities dont have experience of other cultures. You dont live in a city, im sure of it. Altough you've admitted that you dont have much experience, depsite having an opinion on everything.

[Saintandy666]

No it isn't, it's very relevant, because your pal Mikey has said that people that dont live in cities dont have experience of other cultures. You dont live in a city, im sure of it. Altough you've admitted that you dont have much experience, depsite having an opinion on everything.

 

Well, having only lived in two places in my life. One, Southampton, and the other my current location, that's probably true. Hampshire is very white and middle class. Though where I live has significant multicultural communities especially romanian and nepalese, especially in the last 5-10 years and its growing. But I do not understand why that would mean I am not allowed to have an opinion on anything? It's crazy logic.

Edited 2 March, 2012 by Saintandy666

[Turkish]

Well, having only lived in two places in my life. One, Southampton, and the other my current location, that's probably true. Hampshire is very white and middle class. Though where I live has significant multicultural communities especially romanian and nepalese, especially in the last 5-10 years and its growing. But I do not understand why that would mean I am not allowed to have an opinion on anything? It's crazy logic.

 

I didn't say you werent. Super Doopey Mikey said that people that dont live in cities dont have experience of other cultures, not me.

[Saintandy666]

I didn't say you werent. Super Doopey Mikey said that people that dont live in cities dont have experience of other cultures, not me.

 

That's not what he said, he said 'living in a city like this', he didn't say you can only live in a city, otherwise you only experience some sort of monoculture. He just said where he lives in cosmopolitan. He didn't say only cities were that way.

[Turkish]

That's not what he said, he said 'living in a city like this', he didn't say you can only live in a city, otherwise you only experience some sort of monoculture. He just said where he lives in cosmopolitan. He didn't say only cities were that way.

 

Yet you admit that you have, at best, limited experience of other cultures. Apart from the Romanians and Nepalese that have moved into your little white middle class town, yes?

[Saintandy666]

Yet you admit that you have, at best, limited experience of other cultures. Apart from the Romanians and Nepalese that have moved into your little white middle class town, yes?

 

I do not live in a little white middle class town.

 

And at schools these days(last 10 years), they push teaching about other cultures a lot and make you experience them. My primary school a few years ago actually won an award for the way it was coping with students with English not as their first language.

 

I have obviously, having only lived in the UK, experienced British culture, which for me is all about hybridity and as Mikey quite nicely pointed out, tonnes of influences from all over the world. Most people have only experienced to a large degree, one way of living because they have only lived in one country or area.